Re: Python blogging software

Discussion in 'Python' started by Cliff Wells, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. Cliff Wells

    Cliff Wells Guest

    On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 00:29 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:

    > Anyone aware of any functional (doesn't need to be complete, beta is
    > fine) blog software written in Python?


    Hmph. And as soon as I hit send I find

    http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBlogSoftware

    Okay, so is there any *not* on that list that should be considered (and
    perhaps added to the list)?

    Regards,
    Cliff

    --
     
    Cliff Wells, Sep 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. Cliff Wells

    Fuzzyman Guest

    Cliff Wells wrote:
    > On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 00:29 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
    >
    > > Anyone aware of any functional (doesn't need to be complete, beta is
    > > fine) blog software written in Python?

    >
    > Hmph. And as soon as I hit send I find
    >
    > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBlogSoftware
    >
    > Okay, so is there any *not* on that list that should be considered (and
    > perhaps added to the list)?


    Firedrop2 is a client-side blog program (generates static HTML to be
    uploaded to your webserver).

    The link on that page is out of date. It is now :

    http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/firedrop2/

    You can see a feed of some blogs created with Firedrop2 at :

    http://www.voidspace.org.uk/planetfiredrop/

    Fuzzyman
    http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml


    >
    > Regards,
    > Cliff
    >
    > --
     
    Fuzzyman, Sep 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. Cliff Wells

    Cliff Wells Guest

    On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 08:22 -0700, Fuzzyman wrote:
    > Cliff Wells wrote:
    > > On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 00:29 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
    > >
    > > > Anyone aware of any functional (doesn't need to be complete, beta is
    > > > fine) blog software written in Python?

    > >
    > > Hmph. And as soon as I hit send I find
    > >
    > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBlogSoftware
    > >
    > > Okay, so is there any *not* on that list that should be considered (and
    > > perhaps added to the list)?

    >
    > Firedrop2 is a client-side blog program (generates static HTML to be
    > uploaded to your webserver).


    I looked at this but didn't care for it as it doesn't appear to allow
    for comments (feature-wise it's a few steps down from Frog, which I
    already have working).

    For anyone who's interested, what I finally settled on was Bitakora. It
    violated one of my own requirements (it runs on Zope), but because it's
    multiuser and quite featureful and modern, the tradeoff seemed worth it:

    http://www.codesyntax.com/bitakora/about

    I will say that installing it was something of a pain. If the Zope guys
    want to know why Zope has been left behind, one of the first things I'd
    suggest is to clean up zope.org. Bitakora has several dependencies and
    nearly all of the links to these dependencies led me on a wild goose
    chase of broken links, multiple incompatible versions, incompatible
    forks, etc.

    For those who might follow in my footsteps, the dependencies (with
    correct links to correct versions) are:

    Epoz: http://iungo.org/products/Epoz/
    Localizer: http://www.ikaaro.org/localizer
    TextIndexNG2: http://opensource.zopyx.biz/OpenSource/TextIndexNG
    CookieCrumbler: http://hathawaymix.org/Software/CookieCrumbler

    It also depends on BTreeFolder2, but that's included in the latest Zope
    2.8 series.

    I think the worst of all of these was surprisingly Epoz. There are at
    least three distinct branches of this product: the original
    (deprecated), it's replacement (kupu), and a fork (which happens to be
    the correct one). The information on zope.org gives little indication
    that there might be such a fork (but is quite happy to lead you in
    circles). I noticed that several of the products mentioned the pain of
    maintaining software on zope.org (and so had moved their software
    elsewhere), so this is probably the root of the problem.

    Anyway, Zope complaints aside, Bitakora is really great and I'd
    recommend that anyone looking for a friendly, multiuser blog take a
    look.


    Regards,
    Cliff
     
    Cliff Wells, Sep 13, 2006
    #3
  4. Cliff Wells

    Fuzzyman Guest

    Cliff Wells wrote:
    > On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 08:22 -0700, Fuzzyman wrote:
    > > Cliff Wells wrote:
    > > > On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 00:29 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Anyone aware of any functional (doesn't need to be complete, beta is
    > > > > fine) blog software written in Python?
    > > >
    > > > Hmph. And as soon as I hit send I find
    > > >
    > > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBlogSoftware
    > > >
    > > > Okay, so is there any *not* on that list that should be considered (and
    > > > perhaps added to the list)?

    > >
    > > Firedrop2 is a client-side blog program (generates static HTML to be
    > > uploaded to your webserver).

    >
    > I looked at this but didn't care for it as it doesn't appear to allow
    > for comments (feature-wise it's a few steps down from Frog, which I
    > already have working).
    >


    Because it is client side (rather than running on the server), it has
    no built in comments facility. I use Haloscan for comments, but I'm
    always on the look out for a neat comments system to integrate with
    Firedrop.

    I personally prefer the 'client side' approach, as it makes migrating
    content to another server trivially easy.

    All the best,


    Fuzzyman
    http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml
     
    Fuzzyman, Sep 13, 2006
    #4
  5. Fuzzyman wrote:
    >
    > Because it is client side (rather than running on the server), it has
    > no built in comments facility. I use Haloscan for comments, but I'm
    > always on the look out for a neat comments system to integrate with
    > Firedrop.
    >
    > I personally prefer the 'client side' approach, as it makes migrating
    > content to another server trivially easy.


    a wise person you are. I've often thought that most of the pages
    generated by web frameworks (except for active pages) should be cached
    once rendered.

    as to the comment system, I've been very disappointed by most blog
    comment capabilities because they actively hinder the ability for
    commenters to interact with each other. what I would like to see is a
    short-life (i.e. three day) mailing list where the message history is
    stored as if it were blog comments.

    The advantage of this technique is you can follow the comments without
    constantly checking in on the blog And you can actually build a
    community which interacts more easily than they do today.

    Yes, you could build a web form techniques but the main advantage of Web
    forms over mailing lists is that they fill your mailbox with messages
    telling you that you have a message instead of delivering the message
    itself.

    it would be interesting to see if one could build this capability
    into/out of mailman. I really hate reinventing the wheel unless the
    wheel is square and I need a round one. :)

    ---eric
     
    Eric S. Johansson, Sep 17, 2006
    #5
  6. Cliff Wells

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Eric S. Johansson" <> writes:
    > a wise person you are. I've often thought that most of the pages
    > generated by web frameworks (except for active pages) should be cached
    > once rendered.


    Fancy frameworks do use caching, but I think of that as a kludgy
    workaround for lousy performance of the framework itself. A fast
    framework should not need caching, except maybe caching gzip output
    for large blocks of contiguous text.

    > as to the comment system, I've been very disappointed by most blog
    > comment capabilities because they actively hinder the ability for
    > commenters to interact with each other. what I would like to see is a
    > short-life (i.e. three day) mailing list where the message history is
    > stored as if it were blog comments.


    Some comment systems are better than others, but transferring the
    comments to email sounds horrible, at least for users who use web
    boards to keep stuff OUT of their mailboxes.

    > Yes, you could build a web form techniques but the main advantage of
    > Web forms over mailing lists is that they fill your mailbox with
    > messages telling you that you have a message instead of delivering the
    > message itself.


    Yeah, that combines the worst of both worlds.
     
    Paul Rubin, Sep 17, 2006
    #6
  7. Cliff Wells

    Steve Holden Guest

    Paul Rubin wrote:
    > "Eric S. Johansson" <> writes:
    >
    >>a wise person you are. I've often thought that most of the pages
    >>generated by web frameworks (except for active pages) should be cached
    >>once rendered.

    >
    >
    > Fancy frameworks do use caching, but I think of that as a kludgy
    > workaround for lousy performance of the framework itself. A fast
    > framework should not need caching, except maybe caching gzip output
    > for large blocks of contiguous text.
    >

    The value of caching is mostly for heavy-duty applications built on top
    of the framework. The framework has no control over how much computation
    the application does, but can offer savings by "short-circuiting" the
    repeated execution of lengthy page computations in application code.

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
    Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
    Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
    Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
     
    Steve Holden, Sep 17, 2006
    #7
  8. Cliff Wells

    Paul Rubin Guest

    Steve Holden <> writes:
    > > Fancy frameworks do use caching, but I think of that as a kludgy
    > > workaround for lousy performance of the framework itself. A fast
    > > framework should not need caching, except maybe caching gzip output
    > > for large blocks of contiguous text.

    > The value of caching is mostly for heavy-duty applications built on
    > top of the framework. The framework has no control over how much
    > computation the application does, but can offer savings by
    > "short-circuiting" the repeated execution of lengthy page computations
    > in application code.


    Fair enough. I shouldn't have said "lousy performance of the
    framework itself" when I should have included the application. If the
    application's page computations are so lengthy, then they too need
    speeding up.

    We've got a situation where some big sites (Slashdot, Wikipedia) have
    a lot of cached static pages for non-logged-in users (they all see the
    same thing), but any user who is logged in sees a version customized
    by their preferences, that's usually not cached. So there's a
    perverse incentive to not log in, since you see the static page
    faster.

    I'd really like to get hold of a big active blog or BBS server to
    profile it. It's been puzzling me for years what makes them so slow.
    They just paste user-contributed content together with HTML from
    templates, so you'd think it shouldn't be too complicated.
     
    Paul Rubin, Sep 17, 2006
    #8
  9. > Fair enough. I shouldn't have said "lousy performance of the
    > framework itself" when I should have included the application. If the
    > application's page computations are so lengthy, then they too need
    > speeding up.
    >
    > We've got a situation where some big sites (Slashdot, Wikipedia) have
    > a lot of cached static pages for non-logged-in users (they all see the
    > same thing), but any user who is logged in sees a version customized
    > by their preferences, that's usually not cached. So there's a
    > perverse incentive to not log in, since you see the static page
    > faster.
    >
    > I'd really like to get hold of a big active blog or BBS server to
    > profile it. It's been puzzling me for years what makes them so slow.
    > They just paste user-contributed content together with HTML from
    > templates, so you'd think it shouldn't be too complicated.



    Most of the time, that means fetching data from the DB, which means
    context switches and network transfer. I'm a developer on a large
    java-driven application that deals with books. The app benefits hugely
    from caching - the whole object model is rather elaborated, and fetching
    it into memory (including images stored as blobs), and serializing it
    takes a couple of seconds. Per user! But just grabbing it from a disk as
    html snippet speeds up the app tremendously.

    Additionally, commercial sites often are composed by a rather large
    number of different parts. Teasers, lists of e.g. thematically related
    content and so on. And if you have lots of comparably large objects that
    are very diverse, a larger number of users may mean to exhaust memory
    quickly or even worse swap it around. All this is remedied by caching.

    Diez
     
    Diez B. Roggisch, Sep 17, 2006
    #9
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