Re: Quick URL Redirection

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Michael Fesser, Jul 24, 2008.

  1. ..oO(Nikola Tesla)

    > I'm writing this message to let you know about this site which
    >lets you shorten your URLs: http://fogz.eu/
    >
    >It makes a long URL into a short one. Maybe you've already heared of
    >some service like that, maybe not. But I think it's still useful.
    >Any comments?


    I absolutely hate it. And all of its brothers and sisters.

    What's wrong with normal URLs? Why slow me down with an unnecessary
    redirect? What if the server is overloaded? What if the service goes
    finally down one day? And what the hell does 'fogz' mean?

    Micha
     
    Michael Fesser, Jul 24, 2008
    #1
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  2. On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:14:42 +0200, Michael Fesser <>
    wrote:

    >.oO(Nikola Tesla)
    >
    >> I'm writing this message to let you know about this site which
    >>lets you shorten your URLs: http://fogz.eu/
    >>
    >>It makes a long URL into a short one. Maybe you've already heared of
    >>some service like that, maybe not. But I think it's still useful.
    >>Any comments?

    >
    >I absolutely hate it. And all of its brothers and sisters.
    >
    >What's wrong with normal URLs? Why slow me down with an unnecessary
    >redirect? What if the server is overloaded? What if the service goes
    >finally down one day? And what the hell does 'fogz' mean?
    >

    Correct, this is why i mentionned as http://tinyurl.com/ "tinyurl"
    have a meaning.
    Correct also if the server is overloaded.
    But it could be interesting if your original URL is per example:
    http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/lif...ysia/bombycoidea/bombycidae/bombyx/index.html
    .....
    better to use: http://tinyurl.com/5qlj8r isn't it ? :)
     
    Raymond SCHMIT, Jul 24, 2008
    #2
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  3. ..oO(Raymond SCHMIT)

    >On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:14:42 +0200, Michael Fesser <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>What's wrong with normal URLs? Why slow me down with an unnecessary
    >>redirect? What if the server is overloaded? What if the service goes
    >>finally down one day? And what the hell does 'fogz' mean?
    >>

    >Correct, this is why i mentionned as http://tinyurl.com/ "tinyurl"
    >have a meaning.
    >Correct also if the server is overloaded.
    >But it could be interesting if your original URL is per example:
    >http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/lif...ysia/bombycoidea/bombycidae/bombyx/index.html
    >....
    >better to use: http://tinyurl.com/5qlj8r isn't it ? :)


    Our newsreaders are able to properly display such long URLs without
    breaking, so I don't really care in this case. ;)

    But agreed, short URLs _can_ be helpful in order to overcome newsreader
    flaws, although I still prefer the long, original version and would like
    to see it posted together with the shortcut.

    Micha
     
    Michael Fesser, Jul 24, 2008
    #3
  4. On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:05:02 +0200, Michael Fesser <>
    wrote:

    >.oO(Raymond SCHMIT)
    >
    >>On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:14:42 +0200, Michael Fesser <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>What's wrong with normal URLs? Why slow me down with an unnecessary
    >>>redirect? What if the server is overloaded? What if the service goes
    >>>finally down one day? And what the hell does 'fogz' mean?
    >>>

    >>Correct, this is why i mentionned as http://tinyurl.com/ "tinyurl"
    >>have a meaning.
    >>Correct also if the server is overloaded.
    >>But it could be interesting if your original URL is per example:
    >>http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/lif...ysia/bombycoidea/bombycidae/bombyx/index.html
    >>....
    >>better to use: http://tinyurl.com/5qlj8r isn't it ? :)

    >
    >Our newsreaders are able to properly display such long URLs without
    >breaking, so I don't really care in this case. ;)
    >
    >But agreed, short URLs _can_ be helpful in order to overcome newsreader
    >flaws, although I still prefer the long, original version and would like
    >to see it posted together with the shortcut.
    >

    With tinyurl, you can have a short url that bring you a screen showing
    the real url where you can choice to surf on it or not - this is
    better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the
    short url.
     
    Raymond SCHMIT, Jul 25, 2008
    #4
  5. Raymond SCHMIT wrote:

    > On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:05:02 +0200, Michael Fesser <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>.oO(Raymond SCHMIT)
    >>
    >>>On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:14:42 +0200, Michael Fesser <>
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>What's wrong with normal URLs? Why slow me down with an unnecessary
    >>>>redirect? What if the server is overloaded? What if the service goes
    >>>>finally down one day? And what the hell does 'fogz' mean?
    >>>>
    >>>Correct, this is why i mentionned as http://tinyurl.com/ "tinyurl"
    >>>have a meaning.
    >>>Correct also if the server is overloaded.
    >>>But it could be interesting if your original URL is per example:
    >>>http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/lif...ysia/bombycoidea/bombycidae/bombyx/index.html
    >>>....
    >>>better to use: http://tinyurl.com/5qlj8r isn't it ? :)

    >>
    >>Our newsreaders are able to properly display such long URLs without
    >>breaking, so I don't really care in this case. ;)
    >>
    >>But agreed, short URLs _can_ be helpful in order to overcome newsreader
    >>flaws, although I still prefer the long, original version and would like
    >>to see it posted together with the shortcut.
    >>

    > With tinyurl, you can have a short url that bring you a screen showing
    > the real url where you can choice to surf on it or not - this is
    > better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the
    > short url.


    There are two ways to do that.

    THE USER can let TinyURL drop a cookie that says, "this guy wants to
    always be taken to the intermediary page that shows the long URL and asks
    him if he's not too scared (I paraphrase <g>) to continue to that page".
    That will happen, for him, for *any* TinyURLs he subsequently clicks.

    THE POSTER can prepend the string preview. to the address of the TinyURL
    he's created, and anyone clicking that link, even those without
    scaredy-cat cookies will be taken to the buffer page. The form for
    forcing the preview page on everyone is: http://preview.tinyurl.com/[foo]


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html
     
    Blinky the Shark, Jul 25, 2008
    #5
  6. Raymond SCHMIT wrote:
    [snip]

    > With tinyurl, you can have a short url that bring you a screen showing
    > the real url where you can choice to surf on it or not - this is
    > better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the
    > short url.


    What I find convenient with tinyurl, is that if you have a page with reciprocal
    links to your wesbite, and the links are from various forums, the page will
    rarely validate if the URL has lots of special chars, like '&' and 'id's. With
    tinyurl you can make it validate.
    --
    I.N. Galidakis
     
    I.N. Galidakis, Jul 26, 2008
    #6
  7. Michael Fesser

    Lars Eighner Guest

    In our last episode, <1217058329.286905@athprx03>, the lovely and talented
    I.N. Galidakis broadcast on alt.html:

    > Raymond SCHMIT wrote:
    > [snip]


    >> With tinyurl, you can have a short url that bring you a screen showing
    >> the real url where you can choice to surf on it or not - this is
    >> better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the
    >> short url.


    > What I find convenient with tinyurl, is that if you have a page with reciprocal
    > links to your wesbite, and the links are from various forums, the page will
    > rarely validate if the URL has lots of special chars, like '&' and 'id's. With
    > tinyurl you can make it validate.


    Of course it would work to write the URLs correctly in the first place.
    Then you would not have to depend on the continued existence and database of
    another site.

    --
    Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/>
    Love is the only game that is not called on account of darkness.
     
    Lars Eighner, Jul 26, 2008
    #7
  8. Lars Eighner wrote:
    > In our last episode, <1217058329.286905@athprx03>, the lovely and talented
    > I.N. Galidakis broadcast on alt.html:


    "lovely and talented"? Heh. Far from it ;o)

    >> Raymond SCHMIT wrote:
    >> [snip]

    >
    >>> With tinyurl, you can have a short url that bring you a screen showing
    >>> the real url where you can choice to surf on it or not - this is
    >>> better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the
    >>> short url.

    >
    >> What I find convenient with tinyurl, is that if you have a page with
    >> reciprocal links to your wesbite, and the links are from various forums, the
    >> page will rarely validate if the URL has lots of special chars, like '&' and
    >> 'id's. With tinyurl you can make it validate.

    >
    > Of course it would work to write the URLs correctly in the first place.
    > Then you would not have to depend on the continued existence and database of
    > another site.


    Can you try to validate my page on HTML 4.01 transitional, where I inserted one
    duplicate ref, with the original URL:
    http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/links/index.html

    (Entry 18 on Optics section)
    Result:
    http://tinyurl.com/6dxbjp

    Maybe I am missing something obvious?
    --
    I.N. Galidakis
     
    I.N. Galidakis, Jul 26, 2008
    #8
  9. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "I.N. Galidakis"
    <> writing in news:1217058329.286905@athprx03:

    > What I find convenient with tinyurl, is that if you have a page with
    > reciprocal links to your wesbite, and the links are from various
    > forums, the page will rarely validate if the URL has lots of special
    > chars, like '&' and 'id's. With tinyurl you can make it validate.
    >


    And you can't just do a replace & with &amp; ?

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, Jul 26, 2008
    #9
  10. "I.N. Galidakis" <> writes:

    > Can you try to validate my page on HTML 4.01 transitional, where I inserted one
    > duplicate ref, with the original URL:
    > http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/links/index.html
    >
    > (Entry 18 on Optics section)
    > Result:
    > http://tinyurl.com/6dxbjp


    The original URL is broken. Replacing the "raw" ampersands (&'s) with
    the correct entity "&amp;" will fix the problem.

    sherm--

    --
    My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
     
    Sherman Pendley, Jul 26, 2008
    #10
  11. Sherman Pendley wrote:
    > "I.N. Galidakis" <> writes:
    >
    >> Can you try to validate my page on HTML 4.01 transitional, where I inserted
    >> one duplicate ref, with the original URL:
    >> http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/links/index.html
    >>
    >> (Entry 18 on Optics section)
    >> Result:
    >> http://tinyurl.com/6dxbjp

    >
    > The original URL is broken. Replacing the "raw" ampersands (&'s) with
    > the correct entity "&amp;" will fix the problem.


    Thanks. I did it and it validates. I did not know that. Now I have to replace
    all the tinyurl's with the original links.

    > sherm--

    --
    I.N. Galidakis
     
    I.N. Galidakis, Jul 26, 2008
    #11
  12. Michael Fesser

    Lars Eighner Guest

    In our last episode, <1217064735.225001@athprx03>, the lovely and talented
    I.N. Galidakis broadcast on alt.html:

    > Lars Eighner wrote:
    >> In our last episode, <1217058329.286905@athprx03>, the lovely and talented
    >> I.N. Galidakis broadcast on alt.html:


    > "lovely and talented"? Heh. Far from it ;o)


    >>> Raymond SCHMIT wrote:
    >>> [snip]

    >>
    >>>> With tinyurl, you can have a short url that bring you a screen showing
    >>>> the real url where you can choice to surf on it or not - this is
    >>>> better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the
    >>>> short url.

    >>
    >>> What I find convenient with tinyurl, is that if you have a page with
    >>> reciprocal links to your wesbite, and the links are from various forums, the
    >>> page will rarely validate if the URL has lots of special chars, like '&' and
    >>> 'id's. With tinyurl you can make it validate.

    >>
    >> Of course it would work to write the URLs correctly in the first place.
    >> Then you would not have to depend on the continued existence and database of
    >> another site.


    > Can you try to validate my page on HTML 4.01 transitional, where I
    > inserted one duplicate ref, with the original URL:
    > http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/links/index.html


    As I said, if you enter the URLs correctly, they will not keep your pages
    from validating. In fact you have not correctly entered any of the
    ampersands on this page --- not the ones in text and not the ones in URLs.

    > (Entry 18 on Optics section)
    > Result:
    > http://tinyurl.com/6dxbjp


    > Maybe I am missing something obvious?


    Change all ampersands to &amp; . That could be tricky if some were already
    converted, but as you have not got any of them right, just use
    search-and-replace to change all & to &amp; .

    (Beware, however. Links with &amp; in them will work in html documents when
    read by a web browser. They may not work when the URL is sniffed out of
    other kinds of documents by other kinds of software. So, for example, if
    you copy a link into a plain-text news article, many news readers will not
    decode &amp; correctly.)


    --
    Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/>
    War on Terrorism: Camp Follower
    "I am ... a total sucker for the guys ... with all the ribbons on and stuff,
    and they say it's true and I'm ready to believe it. -Cokie Roberts,_ABC_
     
    Lars Eighner, Jul 26, 2008
    #12
  13. Michael Fesser

    dorayme Guest

    In article <1217090459.632584@athprx04>,
    "I.N. Galidakis" <> wrote:

    > Sherman Pendley wrote:
    > > "I.N. Galidakis" <> writes:
    > >
    > > The original URL is broken. Replacing the "raw" ampersands (&'s) with
    > > the correct entity "&amp;" will fix the problem.

    >
    > Thanks. I did it and it validates. I did not know that. Now I have to replace
    > all the tinyurl's with the original links.


    You might look for an editor that has a checker for your html and picks
    upstuff like this, Control + Command + Y on my old version of BBEdit
    alerts one to such things. There are other ways to check and get
    specific warnings too on or off line.

    As far as the & is concerned, it something that comes up so often that a
    saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such facility) is
    useful, search for (in plain English):

    Any & with a space for and aft and replace with &amp;

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 27, 2008
    #13
  14. On 2008-07-27, dorayme wrote:
    > In article <1217090459.632584@athprx04>,
    > "I.N. Galidakis" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Sherman Pendley wrote:
    >> > "I.N. Galidakis" <> writes:
    >> >
    >> > The original URL is broken. Replacing the "raw" ampersands (&'s) with
    >> > the correct entity "&amp;" will fix the problem.

    >>
    >> Thanks. I did it and it validates. I did not know that. Now I have to replace
    >> all the tinyurl's with the original links.

    >
    > You might look for an editor that has a checker for your html and picks
    > upstuff like this, Control + Command + Y on my old version of BBEdit
    > alerts one to such things. There are other ways to check and get
    > specific warnings too on or off line.
    >
    > As far as the & is concerned, it something that comes up so often that a
    > saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such facility) is
    > useful, search for (in plain English):
    >
    > Any & with a space for and aft and replace with &amp;


    Or, first replace all "&amp;" entities with "&", then replace all
    ampersands with "&amp;".

    With sed, that's:

    sed -e 's/&amp;/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&amp;/g'

    --
    Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
    ===================================================================
    Author:
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
     
    Chris F.A. Johnson, Jul 27, 2008
    #14
  15. Michael Fesser

    dorayme Guest

    In article <d9478$488bc474$cef88ba3$>,
    "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote:

    > On 2008-07-27, dorayme wrote:
    > >
    > > As far as the & is concerned, it is something that comes up so often that a
    > > a saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such a facility) is
    > > useful. Search for (in plain English):
    > >
    > > Any & with a space for and aft and replace with &amp;

    >
    > Or, first replace all "&amp;" entities with "&", then replace all
    > ampersands with "&amp;".
    >
    > With sed, that's:
    >
    > sed -e 's/&amp;/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&amp;/g'


    I guess this is ok too. But is it not a bit the long way around? As far
    as I can see, there is no trouble with mucking up any already present
    "&amp;"s with the simpler replace " & " with "&amp;"

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 27, 2008
    #15
  16. On 2008-07-27, dorayme wrote:
    > In article <d9478$488bc474$cef88ba3$>,
    > "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 2008-07-27, dorayme wrote:
    >> >
    >> > As far as the & is concerned, it is something that comes up so often that a
    >> > a saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such a facility) is
    >> > useful. Search for (in plain English):
    >> >
    >> > Any & with a space for and aft and replace with &amp;

    >>
    >> Or, first replace all "&amp;" entities with "&", then replace all
    >> ampersands with "&amp;".
    >>
    >> With sed, that's:
    >>
    >> sed -e 's/&amp;/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&amp;/g'

    >
    > I guess this is ok too. But is it not a bit the long way around? As far
    > as I can see, there is no trouble with mucking up any already present
    > "&amp;"s with the simpler replace " & " with "&amp;"


    That would miss "AT&T", for example.

    --
    Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
    ===================================================================
    Author:
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
     
    Chris F.A. Johnson, Jul 27, 2008
    #16
  17. Michael Fesser

    dorayme Guest

    In article <ac6b1$488be1ca$cef88ba3$>,
    "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote:

    > On 2008-07-27, dorayme wrote:
    > > In article <d9478$488bc474$cef88ba3$>,
    > > "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On 2008-07-27, dorayme wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> > As far as the & is concerned, it is something that comes up so often
    > >> > that a
    > >> > a saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such a facility) is
    > >> > useful. Search for (in plain English):
    > >> >
    > >> > Any & with a space for and aft and replace with &amp;
    > >>
    > >> Or, first replace all "&amp;" entities with "&", then replace all
    > >> ampersands with "&amp;".
    > >>
    > >> With sed, that's:
    > >>
    > >> sed -e 's/&amp;/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&amp;/g'

    > >
    > > I guess this is ok too. But is it not a bit the long way around? As far
    > > as I can see, there is no trouble with mucking up any already present
    > > "&amp;"s with the simpler replace " & " with "&amp;"

    >
    > That would miss "AT&T", for example.


    Right!

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 27, 2008
    #17
  18. Michael Fesser

    Lars Eighner Guest

    In our last episode,
    <>, the lovely
    and talented dorayme broadcast on alt.html:

    > In article <d9478$488bc474$cef88ba3$>,
    > "Chris F.A. Johnson" <> wrote:


    >> On 2008-07-27, dorayme wrote:
    >> >
    >> > As far as the & is concerned, it is something that comes up so often that a
    >> > a saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such a facility) is
    >> > useful. Search for (in plain English):
    >> >
    >> > Any & with a space for and aft and replace with &amp;

    >>
    >> Or, first replace all "&amp;" entities with "&", then replace all
    >> ampersands with "&amp;".
    >>
    >> With sed, that's:
    >>
    >> sed -e 's/&amp;/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&amp;/g'


    > I guess this is ok too. But is it not a bit the long way around? As far
    > as I can see, there is no trouble with mucking up any already present
    > "&amp;"s with the simpler replace " & " with "&amp;"


    Well, yeah, but it won't get the ampersands in GET-like URLs.

    --
    Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/>
    WWJD: What Would Jenna Drink?
     
    Lars Eighner, Jul 27, 2008
    #18
  19. dorayme <> writes:

    > You might look for an editor that has a checker for your html and picks
    > upstuff like this, Control + Command + Y on my old version of BBEdit
    > alerts one to such things.


    I'm happy to say, it's still there in the latest version too. :)

    sherm--

    --
    My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
     
    Sherman Pendley, Jul 27, 2008
    #19
  20. Michael Fesser

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Sherman Pendley <> wrote:

    > dorayme <> writes:
    >
    > > You might look for an editor that has a checker for your html and picks
    > > upstuff like this, Control + Command + Y on my old version of BBEdit
    > > alerts one to such things.

    >
    > I'm happy to say, it's still there in the latest version too. :)
    >
    > sherm--


    Excellent, I must get around to it. So far my version of BB seems to do
    all I want.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 27, 2008
    #20
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