Re: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python

Discussion in 'Python' started by Bishara Gabriel, Sep 29, 2004.

  1. Bishara Gabriel, Sep 29, 2004
    #1
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  2. In article <>,
    Bishara Gabriel <> wrote:
    >Latest Revision of Social Analysis and Modeling in Python:
    >http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~bgabriel/Social_Analysis_&_Modeling_in_Python.pdf


    Recognition of SimPy greatly comforts me.

    Is your thesis that OOP is good for social sciences in contrast to other
    sciences, or as with other sciences? If the latter--as I believe--than you
    need to alert readers to Python's existing record of success in serving the
    sciences (see, for example, the recent SciPy Conference).

    I don't like formulations such as "one-to-one correlation between their
    theoretical model and the Python equivalent." It says both too little and
    too much. If this were my proposal, I'd aim for the far more powerful,
    "this project demonstrates Python's suitability as a vehicle which
    simultaneously expresses a theoretical model in a way researchers
    understand, and calculates the consequences of that model with a speed
    and reliability humans don't match."

    Do you realize how ambitious your "Proposal Specifics" sound? How many
    hours do you estimate these seven achievements will require? What are
    the "loadings" of your Project Manager and Chief Consultant?

    For you, is "theoretical economics" inherently and comprehensively
    Marxian, or are you claiming expertise only in that part of it which is
    Marxian?
     
    Cameron Laird, Sep 30, 2004
    #2
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  3. Cameron Laird wrote:

    >In article <>,
    >Bishara Gabriel <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Latest Revision of Social Analysis and Modeling in Python:
    >>http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~bgabriel/Social_Analysis_&_Modeling_in_Python.pdf
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Recognition of SimPy greatly comforts me.
    >
    >
    >

    Glad to hear it. That was Tim's fantastic suggestion.

    >Is your thesis that OOP is good for social sciences in contrast to other
    >sciences, or as with other sciences? If the latter--as I believe--than you
    >need to alert readers to Python's existing record of success in serving the
    >sciences (see, for example, the recent SciPy Conference).
    >
    >
    >

    Not in contrast, no. Excellent suggestions, we shall incorporate them
    immediately.

    >I don't like formulations such as "one-to-one correlation between their
    >theoretical model and the Python equivalent." It says both too little and
    >too much. If this were my proposal, I'd aim for the far more powerful,
    >"this project demonstrates Python's suitability as a vehicle which
    >simultaneously expresses a theoretical model in a way researchers
    >understand, and calculates the consequences of that model with a speed
    >and reliability humans don't match."
    >
    >
    >

    Noted, you can expect the modification to be made immediately.

    >Do you realize how ambitious your "Proposal Specifics" sound? How many
    >hours do you estimate these seven achievements will require? What are
    >the "loadings" of your Project Manager and Chief Consultant?
    >
    >
    >

    The majority of the work will be carried out by the project manager (I)
    and a team of 10 interested and well skilled students. Ambitious our
    project is indeed, yet we are confident in our abilities.

    >For you, is "theoretical economics" inherently and comprehensively
    >Marxian, or are you claiming expertise only in that part of it which is
    >Marxian?
    >
    >

    I do not attempt to conflate theoretical economics with Marxism.
    Indeed, Marxian class analysis will be our entry-point because it is an
    area of particular expertise and thus allows for us to add to that realm
    in an immensely significant manner. As our tools and materials intend
    to reflect the broad applicability of Python in the social science we
    will work with academics in those other fields to insure support for the
    specifics their research.
     
    Bishara Gabriel, Sep 30, 2004
    #3
  4. Bishara Gabriel

    val Guest

    "Cameron Laird" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > Bishara Gabriel <> wrote:
    > >Latest Revision of Social Analysis and Modeling in Python:

    >
    >http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~bgabriel/Social_Analysis_&_Modeling_in_Python.pdf
    >
    > [...]
    >
    > ... If this were my proposal, I'd aim for the far more powerful,
    > "this project demonstrates Python's suitability as a vehicle which
    > simultaneously expresses a theoretical model in a way researchers
    > understand, and calculates the consequences of that model with a speed
    > and reliability humans don't match."
    >


    well, 'If this were my proposal, I'd aim for the far more powerful,'
    "In addition to conventional wisdom, Python may be considered as
    a unique *science tool* providing an opportunity (1) *to build models
    programmatically* - using online experimental data, data-driven
    techniques, and databases integrated with the models, (2) to keep
    the models in a dynamic format available for online analysis,
    testing, and updating. Such online science/reasoning tools may as well be a
    unique
    communication vehicle among scientists speeding up drastically
    understanding complex/data-intensive phenomena such as genome dynamics,
    social processes, terror networks, industrial dynamics, etc."
     
    val, Sep 30, 2004
    #4
  5. In article <>, val <> wrote:
    .
    .
    .
    >well, 'If this were my proposal, I'd aim for the far more powerful,'
    >"In addition to conventional wisdom, Python may be considered as
    >a unique *science tool* providing an opportunity (1) *to build models
    >programmatically* - using online experimental data, data-driven
    >techniques, and databases integrated with the models, (2) to keep
    >the models in a dynamic format available for online analysis,
    >testing, and updating. Such online science/reasoning tools may as well be a
    >unique
    >communication vehicle among scientists speeding up drastically
    >understanding complex/data-intensive phenomena such as genome dynamics,
    >social processes, terror networks, industrial dynamics, etc."
    >
    >
    >


    Hear, hear! Well-done.
     
    Cameron Laird, Sep 30, 2004
    #5
  6. Cameron Laird wrote:

    >In article <>, val <> wrote:
    > .
    > .
    > .
    >
    >
    >>well, 'If this were my proposal, I'd aim for the far more powerful,'
    >>"In addition to conventional wisdom, Python may be considered as
    >>a unique *science tool* providing an opportunity (1) *to build models
    >>programmatically* - using online experimental data, data-driven
    >>techniques, and databases integrated with the models, (2) to keep
    >>the models in a dynamic format available for online analysis,
    >>testing, and updating. Such online science/reasoning tools may as well be a
    >>unique
    >>communication vehicle among scientists speeding up drastically
    >>understanding complex/data-intensive phenomena such as genome dynamics,
    >>social processes, terror networks, industrial dynamics, etc."
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Hear, hear! Well-done.
    >
    >

    As I said, an excellent suggestion indeed. Unfortunately, we already
    have enough on our plate (as you pointed out) considering the time frame
    and resources allowed to us. If we had instead applied for a NSF grant
    (three years, large budget) then we would have no problem with asserting
    our ability to utilize *online*-experimental data, to keep the models in
    a dynamic format available for *online* analysis, and so forth. Our
    limited time and resources will narrow our capabilities in this respect.

    If we had a larger team of regular contributors, this might be more
    plausible.

    Thank you for your feedback.

    Sincerely,
    Bishara Gabriel
     
    Bishara Gabriel, Oct 1, 2004
    #6
  7. On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 10:42:25AM -0400, Bishara Gabriel wrote:
    > Envelope-to:
    > Delivery-date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:30:21 +0000
    > Disposition-Notification-To: Bishara Gabriel <>
    > From: Bishara Gabriel <>
    > Reply-To:
    > To: Cameron Laird <>,
    > Subject: Re: Social Analysis and Modeling for Python
    > X-spam-score: 0.0
    > X-spam-score-int: 0
    > X-spam-bar: /
    > X-spam-report:
    >
    > Cameron Laird wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>,
    > >Bishara Gabriel <> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Latest Revision of Social Analysis and Modeling in Python:
    > >>http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~bgabriel/Social_Analysis_&_Modeling_in_Python.pdf
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >Recognition of SimPy greatly comforts me.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    > Glad to hear it. That was Tim's fantastic suggestion.
    >
    > >Is your thesis that OOP is good for social sciences in contrast to other
    > >sciences, or as with other sciences? If the latter--as I believe--than you
    > >need to alert readers to Python's existing record of success in serving the
    > >sciences (see, for example, the recent SciPy Conference).
    > >
    > >
    > >

    > Not in contrast, no. Excellent suggestions, we shall incorporate them
    > immediately.
    >
    > >I don't like formulations such as "one-to-one correlation between their
    > >theoretical model and the Python equivalent." It says both too little and
    > >too much. If this were my proposal, I'd aim for the far more powerful,
    > >"this project demonstrates Python's suitability as a vehicle which
    > >simultaneously expresses a theoretical model in a way researchers
    > >understand, and calculates the consequences of that model with a speed
    > >and reliability humans don't match."
    > >
    > >
    > >

    > Noted, you can expect the modification to be made immediately.
    >
    > >Do you realize how ambitious your "Proposal Specifics" sound? How many
    > >hours do you estimate these seven achievements will require? What are
    > >the "loadings" of your Project Manager and Chief Consultant?
    > >
    > >
    > >

    > The majority of the work will be carried out by the project manager (I)
    > and a team of 10 interested and well skilled students. Ambitious our
    > project is indeed, yet we are confident in our abilities.
    >
    > >For you, is "theoretical economics" inherently and comprehensively
    > >Marxian, or are you claiming expertise only in that part of it which is
    > >Marxian?
    > >
    > >

    > I do not attempt to conflate theoretical economics with Marxism.
    > Indeed, Marxian class analysis will be our entry-point because it is an
    > area of particular expertise and thus allows for us to add to that realm
    > in an immensely significant manner. As our tools and materials intend
    > to reflect the broad applicability of Python in the social science we
    > will work with academics in those other fields to insure support for the
    > specifics their research.


    I understand better. Thank you.
     
    Cameron Laird, Oct 1, 2004
    #7
  8. I thank *you*. Your comments/criticisms have helped us to convey more
    fully and with increased clarity, the meaning we sought to communicate
    in our grant proposal. I trust you have seen the latest and final
    additions/modifications?

    Sincerely,
    Bishara Gabriel

    Url:
    http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~bgabriel/Social_Analysis_&_Modeling_in_Python.pdf

    >I understand better. Thank you.
    >
    >
     
    Bishara Gabriel, Oct 1, 2004
    #8
  9. Bishara Gabriel

    Kent Guest

    This stuff is way over my head, but reminds me of a simple
    minded impression I have of extending the concepts of GIS
    to other domains.

    I see great potential in working towards the ability to
    map economic data, and the flow of money, power,
    opportunity and influence.

    Grand sounding indeed, but it starts with an architecture to
    model the concepts, then populating with data. You guys are
    smart, you'll figure how to extract the knowledge, eventually
    the wisdom, from the data which you are turning into information.
    (see http://www.systems-thinking.org/dikw/dikw.htm)

    Thanks,
    Kent

    Bishara Gabriel <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Cameron Laird wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>, val <> wrote:
    > > .
    > > .
    > > .
    > >
    > >
    > >>well, 'If this were my proposal, I'd aim for the far more powerful,'
    > >>"In addition to conventional wisdom, Python may be considered as
    > >>a unique *science tool* providing an opportunity (1) *to build models
    > >>programmatically* - using online experimental data, data-driven
    > >>techniques, and databases integrated with the models, (2) to keep
    > >>the models in a dynamic format available for online analysis,
    > >>testing, and updating. Such online science/reasoning tools may as well be a
    > >>unique
    > >>communication vehicle among scientists speeding up drastically
    > >>understanding complex/data-intensive phenomena such as genome dynamics,
    > >>social processes, terror networks, industrial dynamics, etc."
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >Hear, hear! Well-done.
    > >
    > >

    > As I said, an excellent suggestion indeed. Unfortunately, we already
    > have enough on our plate (as you pointed out) considering the time frame
    > and resources allowed to us. If we had instead applied for a NSF grant
    > (three years, large budget) then we would have no problem with asserting
    > our ability to utilize *online*-experimental data, to keep the models in
    > a dynamic format available for *online* analysis, and so forth. Our
    > limited time and resources will narrow our capabilities in this respect.
    >
    > If we had a larger team of regular contributors, this might be more
    > plausible.
    >
    > Thank you for your feedback.
    >
    > Sincerely,
    > Bishara Gabriel
     
    Kent, Oct 6, 2004
    #9
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