Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!

Discussion in 'Python' started by Patty, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. Patty

    Patty Guest

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "geremy condra" <>
    To: <>
    Cc: "rantingrick" <>; <>
    Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:37 AM
    Subject: Re: Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!


    On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, <> wrote:
    >
    > Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from --
    > I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn GUI's using
    > whatever is provided for me by default. Which isn't a bad thing. And if
    > I had to add additional software - and learn that - so be it. I am using
    > a Windows XP system and a Windows 7 system presently. Some day I would
    > like to switch out the Windows XP for Unix.


    Just dual boot, it isn't hard.


    True. I have a Compaq Presario that is so old hardware-wise that I don't
    think it could handle Unix or Linux.

    > Thanks for the link to the Python page about the various packages, that
    > was enlightening.
    >
    > Who or what group is actually in charge of what libraries (and programming
    > commands/methods such as the Python 3.x rewrite of 'print') goes into
    > Python?


    Python's developers. There isn't really any other formal structure beyond
    that.

    > Is this huge discussion really a few feature requests for
    > additional libraries to be included for Windows programming?


    No, it's about other operating systems too, but what it comes down to
    is that rantingrick has been on the warpath about tkinter for a while,
    and hasn't proposed a particularly viable alternative. The sad thing
    is that if he weren't so unhinged his proposal would probably fare
    much better- I know I

    > And aren't some of these libraries developed by 3rd parties?


    Any library to replace tkinter would come from a third party, yes.

    >And how is that handled by the people in charge?


    Again, there aren't really people 'in charge' on this. Whoever wanted
    to push for this would have to do the legwork to make sure that the
    library on offer was good enough to win a lot of support from the
    community, was cross-platform, etc. They'd also have to convince
    someone with commit privs that it was a great idea, convince the rest
    of the dev group not to oppose it. After that would come the difficult
    task of slowly phasing tkinter out, which would involve substantial
    long-term commitment.

    In other words, whoever wants to push for this is in for a hard,
    multi-year slog. Nobody has stepped up to the plate to do any real
    work towards that goal.


    > Do they have to pay to license it or is this all freely contributed
    > software?


    I can't imagine non-free code making it in.

    Geremy Condra


    >From my past experience - I think you are right, this is the course of

    events that
    would have to happen and yes, it would literally take years.

    Patty
     
    Patty, Jan 19, 2011
    #1
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  2. On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:45:22 -0800, Patty wrote:

    > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, <> wrote:
    >>
    >> Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from
    >> -- I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn GUI's
    >> using whatever is provided for me by default. Which isn't a bad thing.
    >> And if I had to add additional software - and learn that - so be it. I
    >> am using a Windows XP system and a Windows 7 system presently. Some day
    >> I would like to switch out the Windows XP for Unix.

    >
    > Just dual boot, it isn't hard.
    >
    >
    > True. I have a Compaq Presario that is so old hardware-wise that I
    > don't think it could handle Unix or Linux.



    I think you have that backwards. You can usually run recent Linux on
    *much* older and cruftier hardware than will run recent Windows.

    You may have to forgo using the two heavyweight window managers, Gnome
    and KDE, in favour of a lightweight window manager, but some people would
    argue that's a benefit rather than a loss :)

    Here's an article that might be of interest:

    http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6185716632.html



    --
    Steven
     
    Steven D'Aprano, Jan 19, 2011
    #2
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  3. On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:45:22 -0800, Patty wrote:

    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "geremy condra" <> To: <>
    > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM, <> wrote:
    >>
    >> Now I think I understand a little better where you all are coming from
    >> -- I am a Unix person and I guess I expected to have to learn GUI's
    >> using whatever is provided for me by default. Which isn't a bad thing.
    >> And if I had to add additional software - and learn that - so be it. I
    >> am using a Windows XP system and a Windows 7 system presently. Some day
    >> I would like to switch out the Windows XP for Unix.

    >
    > Just dual boot, it isn't hard.
    >


    IME you'll find that networking a Windows box to an older, slower PC thats
    rescued from the attic will be much more useful than a single dual-boot
    arrangement.

    Linux will run at a usable speed on a PC with 512 MB RAM and an 866 MHz
    P3, though some things, such as logging in, will be slow with a graphical
    desktop (runlevel 5), but if it has more RAM or you run an X-server on
    another PC, which could be running Windows, you'll execute commands,
    including graphical ones - provided you have X.11 forwarding enabled, a
    lot faster. The Linux box can also be headless if you haven't a screen
    and keyboard to spare. In short, Linux will run well on a PC that can't
    run anything more recent than Win98 at an acceptable speed. It doesn't
    need a lot of disk either - anything more than 30 GB will do. However, an
    optical drive is needed for installation. You can install Fedora from a
    CD drive provided the box is networked so it can retrieve most of its
    packages over the net, but using a DVD drive would be easier for a first
    install.

    > True. I have a Compaq Presario that is so old hardware-wise that I
    > don't think it could handle Unix or Linux.
    >

    What speed and type of CPU does it use? How much RAM? What's about disk
    and optical drives?

    FWIW my house server is an IMB Netvista that is at least 10 years old -
    866MHz P3, 512 GB RAM, LG DVD drive, new 160GB hdd and runs Fedora 13. It
    is a bit slow at runlevel 5 (graphical desktop) when driven from its own
    console, but I usually access it over the house net from a more modern
    Core Duo laptop that runs Fedora 14. The NetVista is more than adequate
    for web and RDBMS development (Apache and PostgreSQL) in Python or Java
    and very fast for C compilation.


    --
    martin@ | Martin Gregorie
    gregorie. | Essex, UK
    org |
     
    Martin Gregorie, Jan 19, 2011
    #3
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