Re: Two club opening?

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Kenny McCormack, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. In article <>,
    paul <> wrote:
    >> KQJTxx    x    ---    AKJTxx

    ....
    >Certainly legal. But partner with a random 8 hcp will tend to drive to
    >slam; it's a good idea to have strength in 3 suits for a 2C opener.


    I think it has become clear by now that the question isn't really "is it
    legal?", but rather "Is it acceptable behavior w/o disclosure?". In
    fact, I think the question "Is it legal?" is pretty much meaningless
    (except to language lawyers, hence the cross-post).

    Given that we, the smart people of r.g.b. would never open these sorts
    of hands with 2C, yet we know that many of the unwashed would, and do,
    it is clear that there are (at least) two sorts of people out there who
    open 2C, so there are (at least) two version of the 2C convention in use.

    It seems clear to me that one or the other needs an alert/disclosure.

    It will never happen, though, of course, for political/social reasons.

    By the way, do strong 2 bids (classic, old, standard American strong 2s)
    require an alert?
    Kenny McCormack, Jan 11, 2010
    #1
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  2. On Jan 11, 11:56 am, (Kenny McCormack)
    wrote:
    > In article <..com>,
    >
    > paul  <> wrote:
    > >> KQJTxx x --- AKJTxx

    > ...
    > >Certainly legal. But partner with a random 8 hcp will tend to drive to
    > >slam; it's a good idea to have strength in 3 suits for a 2C opener.

    >
    > I think it has become clear by now that the question isn't really "is it
    > legal?", but rather "Is it acceptable behavior w/o disclosure?".


    That's a more _interesting_ question. However, who gets to decide what
    is acceptable other than those who decide what is legal?

     In
    > fact, I think the question "Is it legal?" is pretty much meaningless
    > (except to language lawyers, hence the cross-post).
    >
    > Given that we, the smart people of r.g.b. would never open these sorts
    > of hands with 2C, yet we know that many of the unwashed would, and do,
    > it is clear that there are (at least) two sorts of people out there who
    > open 2C, so there are (at least) two version of the 2C convention in use.


    >
    > It seems clear to me that one or the other needs an alert/disclosure.


    At least one pair I know, life-mackarels, were told by a director that
    they ought to alert their 2C bid. However, the descriiption he told
    them to give, as they remember it, after they alert makes no sense to
    me. They think he told them to say "It may only be a one-suiter." They
    don't remember anything else he said. Of course, I think their bids
    should all be alerted as "none of my partner's bids mean anything"
    because people who don't know them might draw inferences from their
    bidding.

    >
    > It will never happen, though, of course, for political/social reasons.
    >
    > By the way, do strong 2 bids (classic, old, standard American strong 2s)
    > require an alert?


    I don't know. I do know that a great many hands, especially two-
    suiters, that would be reasonable Strong-Two openings would be insane
    to open 2C. So all the texts that said that you could open 2C anytime
    it would be right to open 2X are wrong. The hand that started this
    thread might be opened 2S (or 2C) as a natural strong two without
    anyone batting an eye.

    --
    Will in New Haven
    Will in New Haven, Jan 11, 2010
    #2
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  3. In article <>,
    Derek Broughton <> wrote:
    ....
    >What makes comp.lang.c the right place for discussions for language
    >lawyers?


    Have you read that group? If you had, you'd know.
    And if you haven't you should - and you will.

    >It's still not a reasonable cross-post.


    The cross-post amuses me. Hence, I have put it back.

    ....

    >No. If you have a "strong" hand, that's all you have to have. If you want


    Repeating data that has already been posted doesn't add to the body of
    knowledge.

    (Another thing they like to do ad infinitum in CLC, hence the cross-post)
    Kenny McCormack, Jan 11, 2010
    #3
  4. Garbage

    On Jan 12, 12:52 am, (Kenny McCormack)
    wrote:
    > >What makes comp.lang.c the right place for discussions for language
    > >lawyers?    

    > .
    > Have you read that group?  If you had, you'd know.
    > And if you haven't you should - and you will.
    > .
    > >It's still not a reasonable cross-post.

    > .
    > The cross-post amuses me.  Hence, I have put it back.
    > Repeating data that has already been posted doesn't add to the body of
    > knowledge.
    > .
    > (Another thing they like to do ad infinitum in CLC, hence the cross-post)


    For someone who complains about newsgroup noise,
    you are one of the noisiest, and probably the most offensive.

    I've left r.g.b in the Newsgroup list so r.g.b'ers can
    know what we c.l.c'ers think of Kenny.

    James Dow Allen (ACBL Lifemaster since 1971!)
    James Dow Allen, Jan 11, 2010
    #4
  5. Kenny McCormack

    dranon Guest

    Re: Garbage

    On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:20:57 -0800 (PST), James Dow Allen
    <> wrote:

    >On Jan 12, 12:52 am, (Kenny McCormack)
    >wrote:
    >> >What makes comp.lang.c the right place for discussions for language
    >> >lawyers?    

    >> .
    >> Have you read that group?  If you had, you'd know.
    >> And if you haven't you should - and you will.
    >> .
    >> >It's still not a reasonable cross-post.

    >> .
    >> The cross-post amuses me.  Hence, I have put it back.
    >> Repeating data that has already been posted doesn't add to the body of
    >> knowledge.
    >> .
    >> (Another thing they like to do ad infinitum in CLC, hence the cross-post)

    >
    >For someone who complains about newsgroup noise,
    >you are one of the noisiest, and probably the most offensive.
    >
    >I've left r.g.b in the Newsgroup list so r.g.b'ers can
    >know what we c.l.c'ers think of Kenny.
    >
    >James Dow Allen (ACBL Lifemaster since 1971!)


    If James Dow Allen were to replace Kenny McCormack in r.g.b. it would
    be a very good thing indeed.
    dranon, Jan 11, 2010
    #5
  6. Re: Garbage

    On 11 Jan 2010 at 18:20, James Dow Allen wrote:
    > I've left r.g.b in the Newsgroup list so r.g.b'ers can
    > know what we c.l.c'ers think of Kenny.


    What makes you think you speak for all clc'ers?

    Your arrogance certainly marks you out as exactly one of those
    "regulars" that Kenny is talking about.

    > By the way, do strong 2 bids (classic, old, standard American strong
    > 2s) require an alert?


    In my opinion, yes, but it never happens...
    Antoninus Twink, Jan 11, 2010
    #6
  7. Re: Garbage

    James Dow Allen wrote

    >James Dow Allen (ACBL Lifemaster since 1971!)


    <mutter> <mutter> ACBL lifemaster <mutter> <mutter>

    --
    David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways
    Liverpool, England, UK Fax: +44 870 055 7697 ICQ: 20039682
    <> bluejak on OKB
    Bridgepage: http://blakjak.org/brg_menu.htm
    David Stevenson, Jan 11, 2010
    #7
  8. Kenny McCormack

    richlp Guest

    Re: Garbage

    On Jan 11, 12:59 pm, Antoninus Twink <> wrote:
    > On 11 Jan 2010 at 18:20, James Dow Allen wrote:
    >
    > > I've left r.g.b in the Newsgroup list so r.g.b'ers can
    > > know what we c.l.c'ers think of Kenny.

    >
    > What makes you think you speak for all clc'ers?
    >
    > Your arrogance certainly marks you out as exactly one of those
    > "regulars" that Kenny is talking about.
    >
    > > By the way, do strong 2 bids (classic, old, standard American strong
    > > 2s) require an alert?

    >
    > In my opinion, yes, but it never happens...


    >>"By the way, do strong 2 bids (classic, old, standard American strong 2s) require an alert?"


    >"In my opinion, yes, but it never happens..."


    You are correct. They do require an alert.

    But you are also incorrect, at least for me and my partner. We always
    alert our opening 2's. We also get the strangest looks, especially
    when we explain that 2C shows (of all things) CLUBS.
    richlp, Jan 11, 2010
    #8
  9. Re: Garbage

    I have a certain sympathy for an "Anti-pedantry" position but ...

    On Jan 12, 3:59 am, Antoninus Twink <> wrote:
    > On 11 Jan 2010 at 18:20, James Dow Allen wrote:
    > > I've left r.g.b in the Newsgroup list so r.g.b'ers can
    > > know what we c.l.c'ers think of Kenny.

    > .
    > What makes you think you speak for all clc'ers?
    > .
    > Your arrogance certainly marks you out as exactly one of those
    > "regulars" that Kenny is talking about.


    By this point, I think I'll take that as a compliment.

    James
    James Dow Allen, Jan 12, 2010
    #9
  10. Kenny McCormack

    gwowen Guest

    Re: Garbage

    On Jan 11, 8:59 pm, Antoninus Twink <> wrote:

    > Your arrogance certainly marks you out as exactly one of those
    > "regulars" that Kenny is talking about.


    Oh please, Sockpuppet. Your opinion on yourself is not enlightening.
    gwowen, Jan 12, 2010
    #10
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