Re: Vista - Be Sure UAC is On Before Installing JRE or JDK

Discussion in 'Java' started by Mark Space, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. Mark Space

    Mark Space Guest

    Neil - Salem, MA USA wrote:
    > I just wanted to share something I discovered the hard way concerning Vista,
    > User Account Control, and the installation of the JRE or JDK
    >
    > On Vista, be sure that UAC is ON before installing the JRE or JDK. As the
    > installation begins, you will be prompted by UAC with the message: "Windows
    > needs your permission to continue". Of course, you should click the
    > Continue button.
    >
    > I found that if UAC is OFF when you install the JRE or JDK, you will find
    > that applets will not run though the installation appears to complete
    > flawlessly. Also, if you test your installation at
    > http://www.java.com/en/download/help/testvm.xml, the test will fail.
    >
    > Neil - Salem, MA USA
    >
    >


    Good to know if true. I just recently disabled UAC due to a highly
    undesirable feature I found. You may want to send a bug report to Sun.
    Installing the JRE or JDK should probably work whether UAC is off or on.
    Mark Space, Apr 14, 2008
    #1
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  2. Mark Space

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:13:15 GMT, Mark Space
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    who said :

    >Good to know if true. I just recently disabled UAC due to a highly
    >undesirable feature I found. You may want to send a bug report to Sun.
    > Installing the JRE or JDK should probably work whether UAC is off or on.


    Another variable, is should you "run as administrator" (as opposed
    being logged on an administrator) when you run the installer.
    --

    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    The Java Glossary
    http://mindprod.com
    Roedy Green, Apr 14, 2008
    #2
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  3. Mark Space

    Mark Space Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:13:15 GMT, Mark Space
    > <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
    > who said :
    >
    >> Good to know if true. I just recently disabled UAC due to a highly
    >> undesirable feature I found. You may want to send a bug report to Sun.
    >> Installing the JRE or JDK should probably work whether UAC is off or on.

    >
    > Another variable, is should you "run as administrator" (as opposed
    > being logged on an administrator) when you run the installer.


    A good point. It's subtle nuances like this that are starting to kind
    of sour me on Vista. Why make a distinction between running as
    administrator vs being logged in as one? More to the point, why
    "pretend" to allow operations to succeed only to not have them function
    correctly? It should install only for this account (and say that is
    what it is doing) or it should fail. The "silent failure" features
    built into Vist are really starting to be a pain.
    Mark Space, Apr 14, 2008
    #3
  4. Mark Space

    Mark Space Guest

    Steve Sobol wrote:
    > On 2008-04-14, Mark Space <> wrote:
    >
    >> A good point. It's subtle nuances like this that are starting to kind
    >> of sour me on Vista. Why make a distinction between running as
    >> administrator vs being logged in as one?

    >
    > I hate Vista, but there is a reason for this. You've been able to "run as"
    > another user since Win2000, and sometimes you need to, like at the client's
    > place where I'm working now; people are logged in and need stuff done, but
    > it's a Win2003 Active Directory network and the default system policy has
    > things locked down pretty tightly. In such cases it is *very* useful to be
    > able to run programs as an admin user, especially when logging off the
    > current user is not practical.
    >
    > But yes, in general, Vista's security measures go too far.
    >



    I think you misunderstood me.

    Recently I was editing the config files of a local Apache install I use
    for testing. It was a new install on this machine so I was starting over.

    For some reason, I couldn't get it right. I edited the http.config,
    checked the syntax and spelling, it all looked good. Still no luck.

    So I posted up on the Apache mailing list, asking if there were any
    known issues that may be causing some sort of incompatibility problem
    with my particular install.

    What I got back was a suggestion to log in as a shell (I was editing
    from an Explorer window with GVIM) with administrator privileges and
    verify that the config file really had been changed. Confused, I did
    that and lo and behold, Vista HAD NOT CHANGED THE FILE I HAD EDITED.

    Even though I had Administrator privileges on this account, it neither
    changed the file, nor game me a permission error. Instead Vista
    silently made a copy of the file, cached it, and gave the substitute
    file to me whenever I tried to view the file. Only by logging on with a
    different account could I see that the file I was editing was in fact a
    bogus copy created by Vista to appear in the original's place.

    That's when UAC went away.

    It's one thing to prevent me from doing things based on its own
    perception of safety. It's another to refuse to give me an error so I
    can diagnose the problem, but instead "silently fail" and pretend that
    the operation succeeded. That's BS and that's why I'm suddenly down on
    Vista. It's a horrendously bad idea. Give me an error and let me fix
    it. Don't go behind my back.

    I have no words. Total and utter BS.

    (Well, I guess I had a lot of words, actually.)
    Mark Space, Apr 15, 2008
    #4
  5. Mark Space

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:46:39 -0400, "Neil - Salem, MA USA"
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    someone who said :

    >If I have UAC enabled on Vista, and let's assume I'm logged in as
    >administrator, when I start installing the JRE and I'm prompted by UAC for
    >permission to continue, doesn't that then cause the installation process to
    >be promoted to "run as administrator"? I'm guessing that it does.


    "Run as administrator" is yet another thing. Right click the JDK
    installer, and left click "run as administrator". I suspect you should
    NOT do this for a successful install.

    PHHT!

    --

    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    The Java Glossary
    http://mindprod.com
    Roedy Green, Apr 15, 2008
    #5
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