Re: Which is best method of saving pdf files from web?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Jukka K. Korpela, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. 2012-12-08 3:02, MrBean wrote:

    > I'm using now pdfcrown.com plugin in Firefox - not bad but some minor
    > problems.


    The real topic seems to be how to save a web page on your computer in
    PDF format. That's very different from saving PDF files (which is rather
    trivial).

    > I'm not planning to edit saved pdf. Just a quickes way to save a page -
    > some very interesting article.


    I don't see why you want to save a web page as PDF, losing the
    flexibility of HTML.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Dec 8, 2012
    #1
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  2. 2012-12-08 12:22, MrBean wrote:

    > On 8/12/2012 2:12 PM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

    [...]
    >> I don't see why you want to save a web page as PDF, losing the
    >> flexibility of HTML.


    You longish rant did not address my question. The question was not about
    saving as such, but about saving a web page (consisting of an HTML
    document and associated resources) as PDF.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Dec 8, 2012
    #2
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  3. Jukka K. Korpela

    Tim Streater Guest

    In article <k9v57a$5jl$>,
    "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:

    > 2012-12-08 12:22, MrBean wrote:
    >
    > > On 8/12/2012 2:12 PM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

    > [...]
    > >> I don't see why you want to save a web page as PDF, losing the
    > >> flexibility of HTML.

    >
    > You longish rant did not address my question. The question was not about
    > saving as such, but about saving a web page (consisting of an HTML
    > document and associated resources) as PDF.


    I go File -> Print, and then choose Save as PDF from the PDF drop-down
    in the print dialog. SImples.

    --
    Tim

    "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
    Tim Streater, Dec 8, 2012
    #3
  4. Jukka K. Korpela

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Tim Streater <> wrote:

    > I go File -> Print, and then choose Save as PDF from the PDF drop-down
    > in the print dialog.


    As would many a Mac user. All built-in when you get a Mac. Attention
    Jonathan Little (who has been spotted eyeing off Macs when no one is
    looking).

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Dec 8, 2012
    #4
  5. dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Tim Streater <> wrote:
    >
    >> I go File -> Print, and then choose Save as PDF from the PDF drop-down
    >> in the print dialog.

    >
    > As would many a Mac user. All built-in when you get a Mac. Attention
    > Jonathan Little (who has been spotted eyeing off Macs when no one is
    > looking).
    >


    Keep dreaming! Of course MS outdid themselves making a bigger turkey
    than Vista or ME with Win8! My redirection is to Linux not Mac...

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Dec 8, 2012
    #5
  6. On 2012-12-08 16:43:14 +0000, dorayme said:

    > In article <>,
    > Tim Streater <> wrote:
    >
    >> I go File -> Print, and then choose Save as PDF from the PDF drop-down
    >> in the print dialog.

    >
    > As would many a Mac user. All built-in when you get a Mac. Attention
    > Jonathan Little (who has been spotted eyeing off Macs when no one is
    > looking).


    Yes. That explains why I was having difï¬culty figuring out what the
    problem was. I don't forget that not everyone has a Mac, but I do tend
    to forget that things that are easy and obvious on a Mac tend to
    constitute serious stumbling blocks on other systems.


    --
    athel
    Athel Cornish-Bowden, Dec 8, 2012
    #6
  7. 2012-12-08 13:52, MrBean wrote:

    >>>> I don't see why you want to save a web page as PDF, losing the
    >>>> flexibility of HTML.

    >
    > Let mi try to answer your question once again.


    This is the first time you write anything that constitutes an answer to
    the question.

    > I want to save information, pictures as well in a smallest, the most
    > convenient format, which can be without any hassles d/loaded or send via
    > email.


    You are just saying that you regard PDF as a convenient format.

    Try reading a good tutorial on HTML that explains its benefits,
    including the possibilities of changing styling easily, embedding of
    external content, extractability of text, and an open format that can
    fairly easily be processed programmatically.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Dec 8, 2012
    #7
  8. Jukka K. Korpela

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Athel Cornish-Bowden <> wrote:

    > On 2012-12-08 16:43:14 +0000, dorayme said:
    >
    > > In article <>,
    > > Tim Streater <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> I go File -> Print, and then choose Save as PDF from the PDF drop-down
    > >> in the print dialog.

    > >
    > > As would many a Mac user. All built-in when you get a Mac. Attention
    > > Jonathan Little (who has been spotted eyeing off Macs when no one is
    > > looking).

    >
    > Yes. That explains why I was having difï¬culty figuring out what the
    > problem was. I don't forget that not everyone has a Mac, but I do tend
    > to forget that things that are easy and obvious on a Mac tend to
    > constitute serious stumbling blocks on other systems.


    When I run Windows in VirtualBox, if I am having a cup of tea at the
    same time, I usually spill it because I am not sure how to hold the
    cup properly.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Dec 8, 2012
    #8
  9. Jukka K. Korpela

    Tim Streater Guest

    In article <>,
    Athel Cornish-Bowden <> wrote:

    > difï¬culty


    What is the fourth letter in the word above?

    --
    Tim

    "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
    Tim Streater, Dec 8, 2012
    #9
  10. Jukka K. Korpela

    dorayme Guest

    In article <ka0bv6$8db$>,
    "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:

    > 2012-12-08 13:52, MrBean wrote:
    >
    > >>>> I don't see why you want to save a web page as PDF, losing the
    > >>>> flexibility of HTML.

    > >
    > > Let mi try to answer your question once again.

    >
    > This is the first time you write anything that constitutes an answer to
    > the question.
    >
    > > I want to save information, pictures as well in a smallest, the most
    > > convenient format, which can be without any hassles d/loaded or send via
    > > email.

    >
    > You are just saying that you regard PDF as a convenient format.
    >
    > Try reading a good tutorial on HTML that explains its benefits,
    > including the possibilities of changing styling easily, embedding of
    > external content, extractability of text, and an open format that can
    > fairly easily be processed programmatically.


    As for saving a web page so you can look at it offline or just to have
    it on the desktop acting almost like a bookmark (its links can only be
    operated on line), I just Command S (in this case equivalent to
    File/Save As...) and leave the default "Web Archive" in the dropdown
    menu choice (the other choice is saving the source HTML doc). On Mac
    and Safari. Other browsers and OSs have variations on this theme,
    surely.

    In FF, at least you could in the past, unlike with the Safari *Web
    Archive*, save a page and then look at it in *any* browser. I remember
    that my old IE 5 (when I used to actually use IE on older Macs on less
    than OSX) had a proprietary way of filing a webpage, even a site, you
    could choose how deep the links should go... sort of worked
    surprisingly well if I remember.)

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Dec 8, 2012
    #10
  11. 2012-12-09 4:35, MrBean wrote:

    > You must be really, really naive.


    Thank you for the eloquent answer. Few things are more descriptive than
    bad manners (such as publicly making such notes of a person, hiding
    behind a fake name). It is now sufficiently clear that you have either
    decided to remain ignorant, or just trolling, or both.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Dec 9, 2012
    #11
  12. Ligatures

    2012-12-09 0:47, Tim Streater wrote under Subject
    Re: Which is best method of saving pdf files from web?:

    > In article <>,
    > Athel Cornish-Bowden <> wrote:
    >
    >> difï¬culty

    >
    > What is the fourth letter in the word above?


    It is U+FB01 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FI. In many fonts, this ligature, “ï¬â€,
    has a glyph that is very similar to, or completely identical with, the
    letter pair “fiâ€; on some fonts, such as any monospace font that has it,
    the difference is rather clear.

    My guess is that Unison, the Usenet client that Athel was using,
    automatically converts “fi†to the ligature. This would be bad software
    behavior for a couple of reasons. It introduces a non-Ascii character
    without good reason. Using a ligature character in plain text is
    questionable, since people might be using clients configured to use a
    font that does not contain it. And converting “fi†to the ligature
    without considering the content (like the preceding “fâ€) is a shot in
    the dark; in some fonts, it creates a disturbing effect, since the use
    of a three-letter ligature character U+FB03 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FFI “ffiâ€
    would be the correct choice.

    ObHTML: You could use fi and ffi for the ligature characters
    in HTML, but it is generally better not do that. Instead, you should use
    normal Ascii letters, “fi†and “ffiâ€, and possibly either suggest or
    forbid ligature behavior. (Modern browsers are able to replace such
    letter combinations by ligature glyphs, when a suitable font is used;
    the way to do this is relatively simple but the instructions don’t quite
    fit into the margin here.)

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Dec 9, 2012
    #12
  13. On 2012-12-08 22:47:06 +0000, Tim Streater said:

    > In article <>,
    > Athel Cornish-Bowden <> wrote:
    >
    >> difï¬culty

    >
    > What is the fourth letter in the word above?


    It's an f, but you're probably thinking of the fourth glyph, which is
    an fi ligature. I didn't consciously type it like that, but
    TextExpander doubtless put it when it expanded "diffy". Since I started
    using LaTeX for serious work I have tended not to use ligatures in my
    typing (because LaTeX does it better), but I haven't updated all my
    TextExpander definitions.


    --
    athel
    Athel Cornish-Bowden, Dec 9, 2012
    #13
  14. Re: Ligatures

    On 2012-12-09 11:47:54 +0000, Jukka K. Korpela said:

    > 2012-12-09 0:47, Tim Streater wrote under Subject
    > Re: Which is best method of saving pdf files from web?:
    >
    >> In article <>,
    >> Athel Cornish-Bowden <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> difï¬culty

    >>
    >> What is the fourth letter in the word above?

    >
    > It is U+FB01 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FI. In many fonts, this ligature,
    > “ï¬â€, has a glyph that is very similar to, or completely identical with,
    > the letter pair “fiâ€; on some fonts, such as any monospace font that
    > has it, the difference is rather clear.


    Yes. In fact in the font I use for reading new groups the ligature and
    letter pair are utterly indistinguishable to the eye (though not to the
    cursor), which is why I don't usually notice if I have an unintended
    ligature.
    >
    > My guess is that Unison, the Usenet client that Athel was using,
    > automatically converts “fi†to the ligature. This would be bad software
    > behavior for a couple of reasons. It introduces a non-Ascii character
    > without good reason. Using a ligature character in plain text is
    > questionable, since people might be using clients configured to use a
    > font that does not contain it. And converting “fi†to the ligature
    > without considering the content (like the preceding “fâ€) is a shot in
    > the dark; in some fonts, it creates a disturbing effect, since the use
    > of a three-letter ligature character U+FB03 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FFI
    > “ffi†would be the correct choice.


    No. I don't think Unison is as clever as that. It was my fault, as
    explained in my reply to Tim.

    > ObHTML: You could use fi and ffi for the ligature characters
    > in HTML, but it is generally better not do that. Instead, you should
    > use normal Ascii letters, “fi†and “ffiâ€, and possibly either suggest
    > or forbid ligature behavior. (Modern browsers are able to replace such
    > letter combinations by ligature glyphs, when a suitable font is used;
    > the way to do this is relatively simple but the instructions don’t
    > quite fit into the margin here.)


    I agree with all that, but reforming old habits always takes some time.


    --
    athel
    Athel Cornish-Bowden, Dec 9, 2012
    #14
  15. Jukka K. Korpela

    Tim Streater Guest

    Re: Ligatures

    In article <>,
    Athel Cornish-Bowden <> wrote:

    > On 2012-12-09 11:47:54 +0000, Jukka K. Korpela said:
    >
    > > 2012-12-09 0:47, Tim Streater wrote under Subject
    > > Re: Which is best method of saving pdf files from web?:
    > >
    > >> In article <>,
    > >> Athel Cornish-Bowden <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> difï¬culty
    > >>
    > >> What is the fourth letter in the word above?

    > >
    > > It is U+FB01 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FI. In many fonts, this ligature,
    > > “ï¬â€, has a glyph that is very similar to, or completely identical with,
    > > the letter pair “fiâ€; on some fonts, such as any monospace font that
    > > has it, the difference is rather clear.

    >
    > Yes. In fact in the font I use for reading new groups the ligature and
    > letter pair are utterly indistinguishable to the eye (though not to the
    > cursor), which is why I don't usually notice if I have an unintended
    > ligature.
    > >
    > > My guess is that Unison, the Usenet client that Athel was using,
    > > automatically converts “fi†to the ligature. This would be bad software
    > > behavior for a couple of reasons. It introduces a non-Ascii character
    > > without good reason. Using a ligature character in plain text is
    > > questionable, since people might be using clients configured to use a
    > > font that does not contain it. And converting “fi†to the ligature
    > > without considering the content (like the preceding “fâ€) is a shot in
    > > the dark; in some fonts, it creates a disturbing effect, since the use
    > > of a three-letter ligature character U+FB03 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FFI
    > > “ffi†would be the correct choice.

    >
    > No. I don't think Unison is as clever as that. It was my fault, as
    > explained in my reply to Tim.
    >
    > > ObHTML: You could use fi and ffi for the ligature characters
    > > in HTML, but it is generally better not do that. Instead, you should
    > > use normal Ascii letters, “fi†and “ffiâ€, and possibly either suggest
    > > or forbid ligature behavior. (Modern browsers are able to replace such
    > > letter combinations by ligature glyphs, when a suitable font is used;
    > > the way to do this is relatively simple but the instructions don’t
    > > quite fit into the margin here.)

    >
    > I agree with all that, but reforming old habits always takes some time.


    Oh, fi! :)

    Thanks both.

    --
    Tim

    "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
    Tim Streater, Dec 9, 2012
    #15
  16. Jukka K. Korpela

    Tim Streater Guest

    In article <>,
    MrBean <> wrote:

    > On 9/12/2012 5:37 AM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    >
    > > This is the first time you write anything that constitutes an answer to
    > > the question.
    > >
    > >> I want to save information, pictures as well in a smallest, the most
    > >> convenient format, which can be without any hassles d/loaded or send via
    > >> email.

    > >
    > > You are just saying that you regard PDF as a convenient format.
    > >
    > > Try reading a good tutorial on HTML that explains its benefits,
    > > including the possibilities of changing styling easily, embedding of
    > > external content, extractability of text, and an open format that can
    > > fairly easily be processed programmatically.


    > You got me - now I'll get you.
    >
    > Who cares? If you think any reader on the net, in order to read some
    > information will do the above!?
    >
    > You must be really, really naive.
    >
    > So I will not even try to explain it to them. They would not even read
    > the explanation.
    >
    > They want the meat - on a silver plate. Pdf seems to be the best choice
    > so far, because nearly all have Adobe Reader.


    What do I want Adobe Reader for? My Mac comes with Preview - which can
    also open images and in fact do some simple image editing too.

    I think this is where we came in. In fact Yucca is right and the OP
    should just save the web page and email that.

    --
    Tim

    "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
    Tim Streater, Dec 9, 2012
    #16
  17. Tim Streater wrote:

    > What do I want Adobe Reader for? My Mac comes with Preview - which can
    > also open images and in fact do some simple image editing too.


    No Adobe Reader on this system either. I use Foxit, but regardless I'd
    rather receive light-weight HTML over bloated PDF.


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Dec 9, 2012
    #17
  18. Jukka K. Korpela

    Tim Streater Guest

    In article <ka2m18$dfn$>,
    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

    > Tim Streater wrote:
    >
    > > What do I want Adobe Reader for? My Mac comes with Preview - which can
    > > also open images and in fact do some simple image editing too.

    >
    > No Adobe Reader on this system either. I use Foxit, but regardless I'd
    > rather receive light-weight HTML over bloated PDF.


    Which is what I went on to say.

    --
    Tim

    "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
    Tim Streater, Dec 9, 2012
    #18
  19. Jukka K. Korpela

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Tim Streater <> wrote:

    > In article <ka2m18$dfn$>,
    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:
    >
    > > Tim Streater wrote:
    > >
    > > > What do I want Adobe Reader for? My Mac comes with Preview - which can
    > > > also open images and in fact do some simple image editing too.

    > >
    > > No Adobe Reader on this system either. I use Foxit, but regardless I'd
    > > rather receive light-weight HTML over bloated PDF.

    >
    > Which is what I went on to say.


    Better is to send the URL rather than to send HTML to people who would
    not know what to do with it. But that is perhaps what you both mean.

    About relative sizes, it is true that a PDF that reflects many of the
    features available on an HTML page in a browser is way bigger. One
    100K HTML page (including pics) I had was over 1MB in a PDF.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Dec 9, 2012
    #19
  20. Tim Streater wrote:
    > In article <ka2m18$dfn$>,
    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Tim Streater wrote:
    >>
    >> > What do I want Adobe Reader for? My Mac comes with Preview - which can
    >> > also open images and in fact do some simple image editing too.

    >>
    >> No Adobe Reader on this system either. I use Foxit, but regardless I'd
    >> rather receive light-weight HTML over bloated PDF.

    >
    > Which is what I went on to say.
    >



    I was was writing in addition not opposition to you.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Dec 9, 2012
    #20
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