Re: (X)HTML Strict WYSIWYG?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Isofarro, Aug 7, 2003.

  1. Isofarro

    Isofarro Guest

    Whitecrest wrote:

    > No, I believe target market is determined by many factors. What browser
    > they use is irrelevant.


    You are already contradicting yourself.


    > For example, if I had a site for the blind, I
    > would create a web site designed to worked perfectly in every known
    > reader out there.


    And to hell with non-blind people. They can go somewhere else, or download
    the right tools.

    > If I have a site pushing MAC products, I would insure that it worked
    > flawlessly on browsers that ran on the Mac.


    And to hell with anyone else, they can go somewhere else or download a Mac.


    > If my target market like Flash and wiz-bang-boom, then I will give that
    > to them.


    So you only design websites for Flash enthusiasts. You've never actually
    done a site for a target market that have interests outside the web?

    > Which browser they use as a group is irrelevant.


    Yet you use browser-dependancies to decide which visitors to alienate.
    Interesting contradiction.

    > If they want flash, give it to them. If they want dynamic HTML give it
    > to them. THEY are the people buying your product,


    So all your sites only sell products to do with Flash and DHTML. You don't
    sell any real world products to groups with real world interests?


    >> and websites developed according to browser identification rather
    >> than people's interests.

    >
    > So what you are telling me is that the peoples interest was Flash and
    > multimedia, you would give that to them?


    People who visit Coke and playstation are interested in Coke and the
    Playstation. People who visit the cartoon network want are interested in
    cartoons and the cartoon network. There's no mention there that they are
    interested in Flash or DHTML. In actual fact they care less about the
    technologies used, and care more that their interests in Coke, the
    Playstation and the Cartoon Network are satisfied.

    >> By the end of it you will have wedged yourself
    >> into a tight little hole where a website only works in one browser, and
    >> the entire audience only uses that anyway. Its a dead-end.

    >
    > If I had said anything you say I did, I agree with you, since I never
    > said any of that, your entire argument is pointless and you are arguing
    > with yourself.
    >
    >> You get a broken page instead. Is that good for business?

    >
    > No, YOU get a broken page. I don't.


    How does me and others getting a broken page good for business? Are you
    their only client? Is my money not good enough?

    >> They rely on their web presence? My, they must be in trouble.

    >
    > So this page is ok as it is then?


    Their website seems to be done using HTML, CSS and images. No sign of Flash
    here.


    > They also don't care where they are in the search.


    Naturally. Since http://www.coke.com doesn't get you there. Not much of a
    website if it can't be found. Don't they want to be found?

    > Neither does
    > Ford, or Turner, or thousands of other companies.


    So they have a website that can't be found, they don't want it to be found,
    why waste the money on something no-one is going to see? Surely its better
    spent improving their customer service?


    > They are there for a present, and branding.


    And can't be found, as you claim - useless waste of space then.


    > Are you reading what you are writing? You are slowly turning and
    > agreeing with me that there may be a place for a site like Coke after
    > all.


    Well, websitesthatsuck always need candidates. How do you know quality
    content with no shite to compare it to?


    >> > Now lets look at www.cartoonnetwork.com

    >> *ROTFL*.

    >
    > Oh yea,I forgot, how you think anything in the entertainment business is
    > nothing more than a niche, or a fluke. Mighty big niche,


    Not on the web. Its miniscule.

    > since over 1
    > billion dollars have been spent in the US in the last 90 days on movies
    > alone.


    And none of this is the result of their website. Unless you can provide a
    reference to exactly how much of that 1 billion in the last 90 days
    directly came through the services offered on their website.


    > Yea, Baby, give me a piece of that entertainment industry pie...


    So quite faking being a web designer and get a job in the entertainment
    industry.

    >> Where have I said the web is "for everyone"? Websites for the public need
    >> to be accessible to the public - its not rocket science, yet you seem
    >> unable to grasp that.

    >
    > What you need to grasp that wed sites are part of an industry, and
    > companies do what they need to to make the largest profit for their
    > share holders that they can. If designing an all flash web site brings
    > you in more money,


    Which you have provided no proof of it doing so.




    --
    Iso.
    FAQs: http://html-faq.com http://alt-html.org http://allmyfaqs.com/
    Recommended Hosting: http://www.affordablehost.com/
    Web Standards: http://www.webstandards.org/
    Isofarro, Aug 7, 2003
    #1
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  2. Isofarro

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > > No, I believe target market is determined by many factors. What browser
    > > they use is irrelevant.

    >
    > You are already contradicting yourself.


    You know, as soon as I sent that, I saw how you could misinterpret it.
    Let me clarify:

    You do not choose your target audience by the browser they use. You
    choose which browser you code for by your market audience. The browser
    is irrelevant when choosing your audience. But once that audience is
    chosen you need to build to their likes. This is where browser choice
    may or may not come in.

    > And to hell with non-blind people. They can go somewhere else, or download
    > the right tools.....
    > ...So you only design websites for Flash enthusiasts. You've never actually
    > done a site for a target market that have interests outside the web?...
    > ...So all your sites only sell products to do with Flash and DHTML. You don't
    > sell any real world products to groups with real world interests?...


    We work on all kinds of sites. Some flash based, some just with flash,
    some with nothing at all. The vast majority are connected to the
    entertainment industry in one way or the other. But what sites we work
    on is irrelevant. The point is, You think everyone should build a site
    that everyone can see it no matter what browser they use. (I think the
    quote is "A site made for the public should be able to be seen by the
    public")

    I belive this is where you miss the boat on marketing and advertising.
    Now, as I have stressed a million times here, I do not advocate this
    style for every site on the web. Absolutely not. But I do believe
    there is a place for it. Hell I don't have to believe there is, there
    REALLY is. And billions of dollars are spent each year because of sites
    like these.

    You are free to continue to make sites accessible to everyone in the
    world, and I will continue to work on sites that meet specific goals.

    > People who visit Coke and playstation are interested in Coke and the
    > Playstation. People who visit the cartoon network want are interested in
    > cartoons and the cartoon network. There's no mention there that they are
    > interested in Flash or DHTML. In actual fact they care less about the
    > technologies used...


    And that is where your marketing skills stop, and why you work on sites
    like you do, and I work on sites like I do.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, Aug 10, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Isofarro

    Isofarro Guest

    Whitecrest wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> And to hell with non-blind people. They can go somewhere else, or
    >> download the right tools.....
    >> ...So you only design websites for Flash enthusiasts. You've never
    >> actually done a site for a target market that have interests outside the
    >> web?... ...So all your sites only sell products to do with Flash and
    >> DHTML. You don't sell any real world products to groups with real world
    >> interests?...

    >
    > We work on all kinds of sites.


    Yet the only ones that are Flash driven must be exclusively for people
    looking for Flash, since that is the only way a "target market" could ever
    seriously "want Flash websites".


    >> People who visit Coke and playstation are interested in Coke and the
    >> Playstation. People who visit the cartoon network want are interested in
    >> cartoons and the cartoon network. There's no mention there that they are
    >> interested in Flash or DHTML. In actual fact they care less about the
    >> technologies used...

    >
    > And that is where your marketing skills stop,


    You've hardly proven otherwise. People are not interested in the
    technologies used in website construction. They'd hardly be able to name
    the technologies used let alone decide a certain specific technology has to
    be used.


    --
    Iso.
    FAQs: http://html-faq.com http://alt-html.org http://allmyfaqs.com/
    Recommended Hosting: http://www.affordablehost.com/
    Web Standards: http://www.webstandards.org/
    Isofarro, Aug 10, 2003
    #3
  4. Isofarro

    Isofarro Guest

    Whitecrest wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> > We work on all kinds of sites.

    >> Yet the only ones that are Flash driven must be exclusively for people
    >> looking for Flash, since that is the only way a "target market" could
    >> ever seriously "want Flash websites".

    >
    > Those are your words not mine.


    Your statement is that people want Flash. I'm saying people have no idea, or
    even care about the technologies used in a website. Since your opinion is
    _never_ wrong or false, it goes to say that they only audience you have are
    Flashtubators.



    --
    Iso.
    FAQs: http://html-faq.com http://alt-html.org http://allmyfaqs.com/
    Recommended Hosting: http://www.affordablehost.com/
    Web Standards: http://www.webstandards.org/
    Isofarro, Aug 10, 2003
    #4
  5. Isofarro

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > > Those are your words not mine.

    >
    > Your statement is that people want Flash.


    No it's not, My statement is some groups of people want something MORE
    than text and pictures on the web. FLASH can provide what they are
    looking for. If your customers WANT something more, and Flash provides
    it, then give it to them.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, Aug 10, 2003
    #5
  6. Isofarro

    Isofarro Guest

    Isofarro, Aug 10, 2003
    #6
  7. Isofarro

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > No politics about it, its your own post constructed in your typical six-year
    > old way.


    I find it interesting that both you and I see the other as promoting
    something old. The only difference is I see a web that can consist with
    both (read that as many) points of view, where you are unwilling to
    accept anything other than your own viewpoint.

    Guess that pretty much ends this thread. But I feel confident we shall
    re-hash this again and again as a thread turns this direction.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, Aug 11, 2003
    #7
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