Reading C++ ISO Standard

Discussion in 'C++' started by thomas, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. thomas

    thomas Guest

    Hi experts,

    I find the C++ language complex although I already have a lot of
    experience on it.
    So I turned to the C++ standard trying to figure out the details
    behind.
    But the standard is more than 700 pages with too much information to
    master in a short time.
    Can anyone give some suggestions?

    My background: knowledge of computer science systematically; some
    knowledge of C++ object model; familiar with normal C++ usage(C
    syntax, STL, etc); a lot of C++ programming experience.

    I hope to read the standard because I think the thorough knowledge can
    help improve the code quality in case I would be able to do my work in
    the best way as the standard assumes.
     
    thomas, Sep 4, 2011
    #1
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  2. thomas <> wrote:
    > I find the C++ language complex although I already have a lot of
    > experience on it.
    > So I turned to the C++ standard trying to figure out the details
    > behind.
    > But the standard is more than 700 pages with too much information to
    > master in a short time.
    > Can anyone give some suggestions?


    What you are trying to do is a bit like trying to learn to use a
    computer by looking at its circuit schematics.

    Try Stroustrup's book instead.
     
    Juha Nieminen, Sep 5, 2011
    #2
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  3. On Sep 5, 11:04 am, Juha Nieminen <> wrote:
    > thomas <> wrote:
    > > I find the C++ language complex although I already have a lot of
    > > experience on it.
    > > So I turned to the C++ standard trying to figure out the details
    > > behind.
    > > But the standard is more than 700 pages with too much information to
    > > master in a short time.
    > > Can anyone give some suggestions?

    >
    >   What you are trying to do is a bit like trying to learn to use a
    > computer by looking at its circuit schematics.
    >

    it's really amazing analogy :)

    >   Try Stroustrup's book instead.


    Saeed Amrollahi
     
    Saeed Amrollahi, Sep 5, 2011
    #3
  4. On Sep 5, 1:25 am, thomas <> wrote:
    > Hi experts,
    >
    > I find the C++ language complex although I already have a lot of
    > experience on it.

    Yes. C++ is a complex programming language, of course all programming
    languages are more or less complex.
    Recently, I tried to use pimpl and virtual Constructor idioms in new
    version
    of my program. I face with some difficulties and bugs in my
    implementation.
    I believe it's natural and if I want to use these idioms in other
    programming
    languages, I'll have more or less same problems.
    > So I turned to the C++ standard trying to figure out the details
    > behind.
    > But the standard is more than 700 pages with too much information to
    > master in a short time.

    The FDIS is 1350+ pages. Almost every single day, I refer to standard
    document
    to learn some details about concepts, it's not good text for learning C
    ++ programming.
    > Can anyone give some suggestions?
    >
    > My background: knowledge of computer science systematically; some
    > knowledge of C++ object model; familiar with normal C++ usage(C
    > syntax, STL, etc); a lot of C++ programming experience.
    >

    I guess you have good knowledge/background.
    > I hope to read the standard because I think the thorough knowledge can
    > help improve the code quality in case I would be able to do my work in
    > the best way as the standard assumes.

    My suggestions:
    1. Bjarne Stroustrup. The C++ Programming Language, Addison-Wesley,
    2000. special edition.
    2. Bjarne Stroustrup. Programming: Principles and Practice using C+
    +,
    Addison-Wesley, 2008.
    3. Andrew Koenig and Barbara Moo. Accelerated C++, Addison-Wesley,
    2000.

    Good Luck
    -- Saeed Amrollahi
     
    Saeed Amrollahi, Sep 5, 2011
    #4
  5. On Sep 5, 9:49 am, Saeed Amrollahi <> wrote:
    > On Sep 5, 11:04 am, Juha Nieminen <> wrote:> thomas <> wrote:
    > > > I find the C++ language complex although I already have a lot of
    > > > experience on it.
    > > > So I turned to the C++ standard trying to figure out the details
    > > > behind.
    > > > But the standard is more than 700 pages with too much information to
    > > > master in a short time.
    > > > Can anyone give some suggestions?

    >
    > >   What you are trying to do is a bit like trying to learn to use a
    > > computer by looking at its circuit schematics.

    >
    > it's really amazing analogy :)


    and rather wrong. Some languages can have quick readable formal
    standards (Algol-60, Pascal, CORAL-66, Scheme) other languages turn
    into monsters (Algol-68). C++ is probably somehwre in between. C++ is
    a large language there's no way its standard is going to be a wholly
    easy read.

    > >   Try Stroustrup's book instead.


    not really definitive and a bit dated
     
    Nick Keighley, Sep 5, 2011
    #5
  6. thomas

    Rui Maciel Guest

    Juha Nieminen wrote:

    > thomas <> wrote:
    >> I find the C++ language complex although I already have a lot of
    >> experience on it.
    >> So I turned to the C++ standard trying to figure out the details
    >> behind.
    >> But the standard is more than 700 pages with too much information to
    >> master in a short time.
    >> Can anyone give some suggestions?

    >
    > What you are trying to do is a bit like trying to learn to use a
    > computer by looking at its circuit schematics.


    Your comparison isn't very good. A standard definition of a programming
    language precisely defines what a language construct does and how it is
    employed, and therefore what a programmer must expect from it. This is
    exactly what anyone does when he starts to learn a language. Meanwhile, no
    one needs to know how to analyse a simple RCL circuit in order to use a
    computer, let alone analyse any schematics.

    Reading a standard such as ISO 14882 may not be a good idea as a first step
    into the language, but it certainly will be an invaluable experience to
    those who will ever need take the language seriously, not to mention an
    important reference to have in hand.


    Rui Maciel
     
    Rui Maciel, Sep 5, 2011
    #6
  7. thomas

    Richard Guest

    [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

    Juha Nieminen <> spake the secret code
    <4e648282$0$2860$> thusly:

    > Try Stroustrup's book instead.


    Agreed. Stroustrup for learning the basics of the language and some
    parts of the standard library.

    Get "The C++ Standard Library" by Nicolai Josuttis for good coverage
    of the standard library (vector, list, string, etc.).
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
    <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>

    Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
     
    Richard, Sep 5, 2011
    #7
  8. thomas

    Jorgen Grahn Guest

    On Mon, 2011-09-05, Nick Keighley wrote:
    > On Sep 5, 9:49 am, Saeed Amrollahi <> wrote:
    >> On Sep 5, 11:04 am, Juha Nieminen <> wrote:> thomas <> wrote:

    ....
    >> >   Try Stroustrup's book instead.

    >
    > not really definitive and a bit dated


    In which areas is it dated? (Apart from the fact that it doesn't cover
    TR1 and C++11.)

    /Jorgen

    --
    // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
    \X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
     
    Jorgen Grahn, Sep 6, 2011
    #8
  9. thomas

    James Kanze Guest

    On Sep 5, 4:23 pm, Nick Keighley <>
    wrote:
    > On Sep 5, 9:49 am, Saeed Amrollahi <> wrote:


    [...]
    > > > Try Stroustrup's book instead.


    > not really definitive and a bit dated


    It depends which of Stroustrup's books. His latest is anything
    but dated, and is probably the best didactic presentation I've
    seen anywhere.

    --
    James Kanze`
     
    James Kanze, Sep 6, 2011
    #9
  10. On Sep 6, 11:58 pm, James Kanze <> wrote:
    > On Sep 5, 4:23 pm, Nick Keighley <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > On Sep 5, 9:49 am, Saeed Amrollahi <> wrote:

    >
    >     [...]
    >
    > > > >   Try Stroustrup's book instead.

    > > not really definitive and a bit dated

    >
    > It depends which of Stroustrup's books.  His latest is anything
    > but dated, and is probably the best didactic presentation I've
    > seen anywhere.
    >


    I was thinking of The C++ Programming Language
     
    Nick Keighley, Sep 7, 2011
    #10
  11. thomas

    sybarite Guest

    sybarite, Sep 9, 2011
    #11
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