Real World Scalability and Ruby - Top 20

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Joseph, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. Joseph

    Joseph Guest

    Folks,

    After the long post regarding Joe's now infamous entry about Ruby, I
    wondered, what have the really successful, scalable, big, websites /
    web applications out there have used.

    So I turned mostly to two sources, which while not perfect, are good
    enough.

    For popularity or raw scalability I used Alexa's ranking here:
    http://www.alexa.com/site/ds/top_sites?ts_mode=global&lang=none

    And for webserver I either used Netcraft:
    http://news.netcraft.com/

    or actually tried to figure out what the site used by looking at the
    code or what the page used.

    This is the list of the top 20 sites and what they are apparently
    using, these days many of these sites hide what goes on inside, but
    still we can guess, and yes I have given it my best guess in some
    cases.

    Here is the table, feel free to add more information to it since there
    are still many gaps that I have identified with a question mark. The
    first line mentions the site name and web server, the second line the
    language or framework behind it.

    1 Yahoo FreeBSD
    PERL, PHP, Proprietary, C?

    2 MSN Windows Server 2000/2003, Some Apache
    ASP, ASP.NET, DLLs?

    3 Google Linux based or unknown servers, probably modified FreeBSD or
    Apache.
    Python, Perl, PHP?, C, Proprietary, Java

    4 Baidu.com Linux based unknown.
    ?

    5. Qq.com Linux based unknown and Windows 2003.
    ?

    6. MySpace Windows 2003 / 2000 some Linux unknowns too.
    Coldfusion

    7. sina.com.cn FreeBSD, Solaris 8, Linux based unknowns,
    ?

    8. Yahoo Japan Like Yahoo at 1.

    9. 163.com China FreeBSD, Linux based unknowns,
    ?

    10 Live.com Windows 2003, Linux unknown servers
    ASP, ASP.NET, DLLs?

    11 eBay.com Windows 2000/2003
    PERL?, C?, DLLs, Proprietary, more?

    12. Sohu.com China Linux unknown servers
    ?

    13. YouTube.com Linux unknown servers
    ?

    14. Yahoo China Like 1

    15. Microsoft Windows 2003 / 2000
    ASP.net, ASP, DLLs?

    16. Wikipedia FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers
    PHP, PERL?

    17. Amazon.com FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers, Solaris 8, Netware
    PERL, Proprietary, more?

    18. Orkut.com Linux unknown server
    PHP?, PERL?

    19. Blogger FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers
    PHP?, PERL?

    20. Google UK Like Google

    INTERESTING FACTS

    * Not a single significant "safe" Java J2EE in the top 20.
    * Many proprietary variations with FreeBSD or Linux as the only common
    ground
    * Some .NET and Windows 2003 are indeed listed
    * Arguably the biggest web application is MySpace which is based on
    Coldfusion! Certainly not a "safe" choice by a long shot.

    CONCLUSIONS

    * Choosing one Framework or language over another seems to be mostly
    irrelevant as long as you stick to the underlying technology: FreeBSD,
    Linux Based server or Windows 2003 which appear consistently in the top
    web sites again and again. Also although is not mentioned anywhere,
    Oracle, MS SQL Server and MySQL are high up there in these rankings
    too.
    * Java and J2EE is by far absent from this list, this should tell us
    all something.
    * .Net is very present on the list, MS obviously is doing something
    right. The progress Ruby is doing with Windows is encouraging.
    * Choosing the best tools for the job can give you a big payout.
    MySpace is Coldfusion based, this is risky, but gives you the ability
    to write database web applications fast... and it has worked well. I
    would say the risk was worth it.
    * Not a single major Ruby or Ruby on Rails app cuts to this list yet,
    but I see no reason why this would not happen eventually.

    Food for thought fellows, any input on how would Ruby would ever get
    there, or who runs what, would be appreciated.

    Jose L. Hurtado
    Web Developer
    Toronto, Canada
     
    Joseph, Sep 10, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On 9/9/06, Joseph <> wrote:
    > Folks,
    >
    > After the long post regarding Joe's now infamous entry about Ruby, I
    > wondered, what have the really successful, scalable, big, websites /
    > web applications out there have used.


    It seems like you're just guessing at these. I don't know all of them,
    but I know for certain that eBay is running a crapload of Java in
    their backend. In fact, they used to be a solid ASP site (pre-.NET)
    but switched to Java because the ASP stuff scaled horribly. IBM made a
    big media event out of that a few years back. I mean really, the site
    has Sun/Java branding right at the top...so it's probably safe to
    assume Java's involved.

    It's also extremely subjective to "look at what the site uses" because
    I know for a fact many large Java-based sites use URLs showing
    something other than ".jsp", for reasons that are perhaps obvious. And
    there's another large chunk of sites that use PHP or .NET or what have
    you for web-facing stuff while the vast majority of their apps are
    actually backed by large Java clusters behind some variety of service
    layer.

    It would probably be better to leave the guesses off the list
    completely and not try to draw any conclusions at all. Unless you
    really know what these sites are using (a difficult prospect at best)
    no conclusions are possible.

    --
    Contribute to RubySpec! @ www.headius.com/rubyspec
    Charles Oliver Nutter @ headius.blogspot.com
    Ruby User @ ruby.mn
     
    Charles O Nutter, Sep 10, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Joseph

    Chad Perrin Guest

    On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 12:30:09PM +0900, Joseph wrote:
    >
    > Here is the table, feel free to add more information to it since there
    > are still many gaps that I have identified with a question mark. The
    > first line mentions the site name and web server, the second line the
    > language or framework behind it.
    >
    > 1 Yahoo FreeBSD
    > PERL, PHP, Proprietary, C?


    Also Python and Common Lisp (though the Lisp codebase is not growing at
    this point -- it's "legacy code" that is indispensable as long as they
    keep their RTML templating system).


    >
    > 2 MSN Windows Server 2000/2003, Some Apache
    > ASP, ASP.NET, DLLs?


    I believe they're still using some FreeBSD systems at Hotmail, and all
    of Windows is behind free unix firewalls through a proxy service.


    >
    > 3 Google Linux based or unknown servers, probably modified FreeBSD or
    > Apache.
    > Python, Perl, PHP?, C, Proprietary, Java
    >
    > 4 Baidu.com Linux based unknown.
    > ?
    >
    > 5. Qq.com Linux based unknown and Windows 2003.
    > ?
    >
    > 6. MySpace Windows 2003 / 2000 some Linux unknowns too.
    > Coldfusion


    Migrating to BlueDragon.NET, which uses .NET as the back end for
    ColdFusion, last I checked.


    >
    > 7. sina.com.cn FreeBSD, Solaris 8, Linux based unknowns,
    > ?
    >
    > 8. Yahoo Japan Like Yahoo at 1.
    >
    > 9. 163.com China FreeBSD, Linux based unknowns,
    > ?
    >
    > 10 Live.com Windows 2003, Linux unknown servers
    > ASP, ASP.NET, DLLs?
    >
    > 11 eBay.com Windows 2000/2003
    > PERL?, C?, DLLs, Proprietary, more?
    >
    > 12. Sohu.com China Linux unknown servers
    > ?
    >
    > 13. YouTube.com Linux unknown servers
    > ?
    >
    > 14. Yahoo China Like 1
    >
    > 15. Microsoft Windows 2003 / 2000
    > ASP.net, ASP, DLLs?
    >
    > 16. Wikipedia FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers
    > PHP, PERL?


    The Wikimedia Foundation (Wikipedia, Wikinews, et cetera) has to my
    knowledge only ever had a grand total of one FreeBSD server, and it
    wasn't really used in production. The servers are primarily running on
    Fedora Core 3-5, with a couple of old Red Hat Linux and pre-Novell SuSE
    Linux servers (unless those have been upgraded since I stopped working
    there). The MediaWiki software is all PHP. MySQL is used for
    databases. Thus, it's classic LAMP platform. There are some Perl and
    Python scripts running about for various administrative tasks, but they
    don't represent any kind of measurable percentage of traffic load.

    There are a lot of squid proxies used for caching to serve pages faster.
    There's some rudimentary load balancing (last I checked) that's handled
    at least in part by in-house scripting.

    The Wikimedia Foundation uses zero .NET or Java, in case you were
    wondering.


    >
    > 17. Amazon.com FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers, Solaris 8, Netware
    > PERL, Proprietary, more?
    >
    > 18. Orkut.com Linux unknown server
    > PHP?, PERL?
    >
    > 19. Blogger FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers
    > PHP?, PERL?
    >
    > 20. Google UK Like Google
    >
    > INTERESTING FACTS
    >
    > * Not a single significant "safe" Java J2EE in the top 20.
    > * Many proprietary variations with FreeBSD or Linux as the only common
    > ground
    > * Some .NET and Windows 2003 are indeed listed
    > * Arguably the biggest web application is MySpace which is based on
    > Coldfusion! Certainly not a "safe" choice by a long shot.


    While MySpace is (again, based on what I've last heard) migrating to a
    NET foundation for its ColdFusion, it got to its current prominence
    entirely on a ColdFusion 5 back-end, as far as I'm aware. Having never
    been employed by MySpace, I of course cannot be as sure of this as I am
    about Wikimedia Foundation information.


    >
    > Food for thought fellows, any input on how would Ruby would ever get
    > there, or who runs what, would be appreciated.


    It's also worth noting that Slashdot is Perl on Linux, I think via
    Apache and MySQL (but don't quote me on that unless I'm right).

    --
    CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
    "The measure on a man's real character is what he would do
    if he knew he would never be found out." - Thomas McCauley
     
    Chad Perrin, Sep 10, 2006
    #3
  4. Joseph

    Chad Perrin Guest

    On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 12:54:56PM +0900, Chad Perrin wrote:
    >
    > I believe they're still using some FreeBSD systems at Hotmail, and all
    > of Windows is behind free unix firewalls through a proxy service.


    Arrrgh, typo. That should read "all of Microsoft". Sorry.

    --
    CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
    "The ability to quote is a serviceable
    substitute for wit." - W. Somerset Maugham
     
    Chad Perrin, Sep 10, 2006
    #4
  5. Joseph

    Joseph Guest

    Charles,

    Good to know about eBay, as I said I am guessing, and getting input was
    precisely what I wanted... so it seems at least one Java is out there,
    are there more?

    Thanks Charles!

    Jose L. Hurtado
    Web Developer
    Toronto, Canada


    Charles O Nutter wrote:
    > On 9/9/06, Joseph <> wrote:
    > > Folks,
    > >
    > > After the long post regarding Joe's now infamous entry about Ruby, I
    > > wondered, what have the really successful, scalable, big, websites /
    > > web applications out there have used.

    >
    > It seems like you're just guessing at these. I don't know all of them,
    > but I know for certain that eBay is running a crapload of Java in
    > their backend. In fact, they used to be a solid ASP site (pre-.NET)
    > but switched to Java because the ASP stuff scaled horribly. IBM made a
    > big media event out of that a few years back. I mean really, the site
    > has Sun/Java branding right at the top...so it's probably safe to
    > assume Java's involved.
    >
    > It's also extremely subjective to "look at what the site uses" because
    > I know for a fact many large Java-based sites use URLs showing
    > something other than ".jsp", for reasons that are perhaps obvious. And
    > there's another large chunk of sites that use PHP or .NET or what have
    > you for web-facing stuff while the vast majority of their apps are
    > actually backed by large Java clusters behind some variety of service
    > layer.
    >
    > It would probably be better to leave the guesses off the list
    > completely and not try to draw any conclusions at all. Unless you
    > really know what these sites are using (a difficult prospect at best)
    > no conclusions are possible.
    >
    > --
    > Contribute to RubySpec! @ www.headius.com/rubyspec
    > Charles Oliver Nutter @ headius.blogspot.com
    > Ruby User @ ruby.mn
     
    Joseph, Sep 10, 2006
    #5
  6. Jose Hurtado wrote:
    > Folks,
    >
    > <snip />


    Many people seem to forget that the word 'scalability'
    implies bidirectionality. I assert that Ruby scales
    better than Java for most things:

    Small----------------------------------Large
    Java <-------->
    Ruby <------------------------------->

    Have a nice day.

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
     
    Eero Saynatkari, Sep 10, 2006
    #6
  7. Everybody talks about this "real" world as if it is different from the
    one we all experience day to day.

    I hope to one day experience this world, because I'm sure I'll be
    completely ready to rule them all with my vast knowledge of what works
    in the "real" world.

    Here's to talking heads..

    P.S. Scalability. And enterprise, don't forget enterprise. My latest
    benchmarks show that under certain conditions, some numbers are
    produced.
     
    Seth Thomas Rasmussen, Sep 10, 2006
    #7
  8. On Sunday 10 September 2006 04:54, Chad Perrin wrote:
    > The Wikimedia Foundation uses zero .NET or Java, in case you were
    > wondering.


    This is really getting off topic, but Wikimedia do use Lucene for at least the
    english search (compiled with GCJ however).

    Alex
     
    A. S. Bradbury, Sep 10, 2006
    #8
  9. Joseph

    Chad Perrin Guest

    On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 07:06:36PM +0900, A. S. Bradbury wrote:
    > On Sunday 10 September 2006 04:54, Chad Perrin wrote:
    > > The Wikimedia Foundation uses zero .NET or Java, in case you were
    > > wondering.

    >
    > This is really getting off topic, but Wikimedia do use Lucene for at least the
    > english search (compiled with GCJ however).


    Hmm. I'd forgotten about that.

    It's kinda like splitting hairs, though -- which is why I didn't
    remember it was technically written in Java.

    --
    CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
    "The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your time waving your
    hands and hopping when a rock or a club will do." - McCloctnick the Lucid
     
    Chad Perrin, Sep 10, 2006
    #9
  10. Joseph wrote:
    > [snip pulling arguments out of your pinky finger]


    You forget intranets. Internal company webapps have to serve humongous
    amounts of traffic on not really lavish hardware. Listing the Fortune 20
    of websites which indeed CAN afford to "just throw more servers at it"
    tells us precisely nothing at all about technology scalability.

    Windows probably sees more use for company backends than you can imagine
    on accounts of being easy to set up and work with up to a certain scale
    when you really need automation instead of an underpaid student support
    gimp.

    Also, your method of research is laughable.

    > * Choosing one Framework or language over another seems to be mostly
    > irrelevant as long as you stick to the underlying technology: FreeBSD,
    > Linux Based server or Windows 2003 which appear consistently in the top
    > web sites again and again.


    Oh yes. Only the three most mainstream server OSs appear in that list.
    Surprise.

    > * Java and J2EE is by far absent from this list, this should tell us
    > all something.


    Or not, since the list is worthless data.

    > * .Net is very present on the list, MS obviously is doing something
    > right. The progress Ruby is doing with Windows is encouraging.


    Good marketing, IIS comes with Windows, more straightforward than Java
    to do MVC and deployment with. Makes it an easier first choice nowadays.

    > * Choosing the best tools for the job can give you a big payout.
    > MySpace is Coldfusion based, this is risky, but gives you the ability
    > to write database web applications fast... and it has worked well. I
    > would say the risk was worth it.


    Worstofmyspace.com begs to differ. I completely ignore the very
    existence of MySpace except from tidbits on the aforementioned site, but
    if it's remotely to be trusted, it's far from stable and reliable.

    David Vallner
     
    David Vallner, Sep 10, 2006
    #10
  11. Joseph

    Joseph Guest

    David Vallner said:

    > You forget intranets. Internal company webapps have to serve humongous
    > amounts of traffic on not really lavish hardware. Listing the Fortune 20
    > of websites which indeed CAN afford to "just throw more servers at it"
    > tells us precisely nothing at all about technology scalability.


    Aha... I would argue this is not true. Having worked for two large
    corporations in the past with over 200,000 employees and huge
    Intranets, I can assure you some of the very worst delays, and
    website/web application design is behind closed doors of those
    Intranets. And I have yet to find one internal webapp that reaches the
    scalability of a public app... but then again, some government intranet
    apps might truly be huge and similar to a major website traffic.


    David said
    >
    > Also, your method of research is laughable.


    OK... this is a very aggressive way of making a point isn't it David?
    I am tempted to reply, but I will ignore the attack and suggest you
    give us a better research method in under 1 hour that works and does
    not make me us laugh, and then please do email us the results ; )

    Now, don't come back and tell us you need a few thousand dollars, a
    month and a research firm to find out anything about this subject, when
    something can already be known in under one hour, and that was my
    point, to try to shed some light into this subject, and to receive more
    information from others who may probably know more than I do. I
    believe the open source movement calls this collaboration, and it
    works.

    Best Regards,

    Jose Hurtado
    Web Developer
    Toronto, Canada
     
    Joseph, Sep 10, 2006
    #11
  12. Joseph

    Tim Bray Guest

    On Sep 9, 2006, at 8:30 PM, Joseph wrote:

    > 18. Orkut.com Linux unknown server
    > PHP?, PERL?


    ASP.NET. Jeepers. Drop the guesses. -Tim
     
    Tim Bray, Sep 10, 2006
    #12
  13. Joseph

    Joseph Guest

    Friends,

    As Tim Bray suggested I've made my best to drop the guesses on the
    list, and show only information I know is either true or reported by
    some credible source. When no information is there, I just left a
    question mark.

    I have also updated the list with the information Chad Perrin, Charles
    Nutter and Tim Bray added to it. This is the list so far, again open
    for improvement:

    1 Yahoo FreeBSD
    PERL, PHP, Proprietary
    "Also Python and Common Lisp" Chad Perrin


    2 MSN Windows Server 2000/2003, Some FreeBSD
    ASP, ASP.NET
    "I believe they're still using some FreeBSD systems at Hotmail, and all
    of Windows is behind free unix firewalls through a proxy service." Chad
    Perrin

    3 Google. Linux based or unknown servers
    Python, C, Proprietary, Java

    4 Baidu.com Linux based unknown.
    ?

    5. Qq.com Linux based unknown and Windows 2003.
    ?

    6. MySpace Windows 2003 / 2000 some Linux unknowns too.
    Coldfusion
    "Migrating to BlueDragon.NET, which uses .NET as the back end for
    ColdFusion... currently... on a ColdFusion 5 back-end" Chad Perrin

    7. sina.com.cn FreeBSD, Solaris 8, Linux based unknowns,
    ?

    8. Yahoo Japan Like Yahoo at 1.

    9. 163.com China FreeBSD and some Linux based unknowns,
    ?

    10 Live.com Windows 2003, Linux unknown servers
    ASP.NET

    11 eBay.com Windows 2000/2003
    PERL, Proprietary, Java J2EEE

    "eBay is running a crapload of Java... they used to be a solid ASP site
    (pre-.NET) but switched to Java because the ASP stuff scaled
    horribly...the site has Sun/Java branding...it's probably safe to
    assume Java's involved. " Charles Nutter

    12. Sohu.com China Linux unknown servers
    ?

    13. YouTube.com Linux unknown servers
    ?

    14. Yahoo China Like 1

    15. Microsoft Windows 2003 / 2000, some FreeBSD at Hotmail, and UNIX
    based firewalls.
    ASP.net, ASP

    16. Wikipedia Apache, very little FreeBSD
    Mostly PHP, some minor PERL, Python and some Java for the
    English search.

    "a grand total of one FreeBSD server... The servers are primarily
    running on Fedora Core 3-5...The MediaWiki software is all PHP. MySQL
    ....it's classic LAMP platform." Chad Perrin

    "but Wikimedia do use Lucene [Apache Java based text search engine]
    for at least the english search" A. S. Bradbury

    17. Amazon.com FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers, Solaris 8, Netware
    PERL, Proprietary, more?

    18. Orkut.com Linux unknown server
    "ASP.NET" Tim Bray


    19. Blogger FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers
    ?

    20. Google UK Like Google


    Bye again,

    Jose Hurtado
    Web Developer
    Toronto, Canada
     
    Joseph, Sep 10, 2006
    #13
  14. Joseph

    Joseph Guest

    I missed Amazon on the list I just sent, it should read J2EE there too
    as was mentioned:

    "Amazon, for example, uses a lot of J2EE. " Tim Smith.

    Regards,

    Jose Hurtado



    Joseph wrote:
    > Friends,
    >
    > As Tim Bray suggested I've made my best to drop the guesses on the
    > list, and show only information I know is either true or reported by
    > some credible source. When no information is there, I just left a
    > question mark.
    >
    > I have also updated the list with the information Chad Perrin, Charles
    > Nutter and Tim Bray added to it. This is the list so far, again open
    > for improvement:
    >
    > 1 Yahoo FreeBSD
    > PERL, PHP, Proprietary
    > "Also Python and Common Lisp" Chad Perrin
    >
    >
    > 2 MSN Windows Server 2000/2003, Some FreeBSD
    > ASP, ASP.NET
    > "I believe they're still using some FreeBSD systems at Hotmail, and all
    > of Windows is behind free unix firewalls through a proxy service." Chad
    > Perrin
    >
    > 3 Google. Linux based or unknown servers
    > Python, C, Proprietary, Java
    >
    > 4 Baidu.com Linux based unknown.
    > ?
    >
    > 5. Qq.com Linux based unknown and Windows 2003.
    > ?
    >
    > 6. MySpace Windows 2003 / 2000 some Linux unknowns too.
    > Coldfusion
    > "Migrating to BlueDragon.NET, which uses .NET as the back end for
    > ColdFusion... currently... on a ColdFusion 5 back-end" Chad Perrin
    >
    > 7. sina.com.cn FreeBSD, Solaris 8, Linux based unknowns,
    > ?
    >
    > 8. Yahoo Japan Like Yahoo at 1.
    >
    > 9. 163.com China FreeBSD and some Linux based unknowns,
    > ?
    >
    > 10 Live.com Windows 2003, Linux unknown servers
    > ASP.NET
    >
    > 11 eBay.com Windows 2000/2003
    > PERL, Proprietary, Java J2EEE
    >
    > "eBay is running a crapload of Java... they used to be a solid ASP site
    > (pre-.NET) but switched to Java because the ASP stuff scaled
    > horribly...the site has Sun/Java branding...it's probably safe to
    > assume Java's involved. " Charles Nutter
    >
    > 12. Sohu.com China Linux unknown servers
    > ?
    >
    > 13. YouTube.com Linux unknown servers
    > ?
    >
    > 14. Yahoo China Like 1
    >
    > 15. Microsoft Windows 2003 / 2000, some FreeBSD at Hotmail, and UNIX
    > based firewalls.
    > ASP.net, ASP
    >
    > 16. Wikipedia Apache, very little FreeBSD
    > Mostly PHP, some minor PERL, Python and some Java for the
    > English search.
    >
    > "a grand total of one FreeBSD server... The servers are primarily
    > running on Fedora Core 3-5...The MediaWiki software is all PHP. MySQL
    > ...it's classic LAMP platform." Chad Perrin
    >
    > "but Wikimedia do use Lucene [Apache Java based text search engine]
    > for at least the english search" A. S. Bradbury
    >
    > 17. Amazon.com FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers, Solaris 8, Netware
    > PERL, Proprietary, more?
    >
    > 18. Orkut.com Linux unknown server
    > "ASP.NET" Tim Bray
    >
    >
    > 19. Blogger FreeBSD, Linux unknown servers
    > ?
    >
    > 20. Google UK Like Google
    >
    >
    > Bye again,
    >
    > Jose Hurtado
    > Web Developer
    > Toronto, Canada
     
    Joseph, Sep 10, 2006
    #14
  15. On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 05:08:06AM +0900, Robert Dober wrote:
    > On 9/10/06, Tim Smith <> wrote:

    [snip the actual conversation]
    > >
    > >Worse, it misses sites like the iTunes Music Store completely, which is
    > >a huge enterprise application. iTMS is a Webobjects application, so is
    > >running on J2EE.

    >
    >
    > You mean Objective-C for sure


    Nope, WebObjects was long ago converted to Java.
    Check out the site: http://www.apple.com/webobjects/
     
    Logan Capaldo, Sep 10, 2006
    #15
  16. Joseph

    Chad Perrin Guest

    On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 06:15:11AM +0900, Robert Dober wrote:
    >
    > One obviously is GNU-Step, but the other...., sorry :(


    GNUstep would be excellent if it wasn't buggy. Darnit.

    --
    CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
    This sig for rent: a Signify v1.14 production from http://www.debian.org/
     
    Chad Perrin, Sep 10, 2006
    #16
  17. Joseph

    Paul Lynch Guest

    On 10 Sep 2006, at 22:15, Robert Dober wrote:

    > On 9/10/06, Logan Capaldo <> wrote:
    >>
    >> On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 05:08:06AM +0900, Robert Dober wrote:
    >> > On 9/10/06, Tim Smith <> wrote:

    >> [snip the actual conversation]
    >> > >
    >> > >Worse, it misses sites like the iTunes Music Store completely,

    >> which is
    >> > >a huge enterprise application. iTMS is a Webobjects

    >> application, so is
    >> > >running on J2EE.
    >> >
    >> > You mean Objective-C for sure

    >>
    >> Nope, WebObjects was long ago converted to Java.
    >> Check out the site: http://www.apple.com/webobjects/

    >
    > I had the very faint hope that a free version of Webobjects was
    > used,
    > these are still in Objective-C, sorry if I wasted your time, I
    > tried to pay
    > you back with the URIs for the two Objective-C versions, but just
    > cannot get
    > my hands on my last Linux-Mag France.
    > One obviously is GNU-Step, but the other...., sorry :(


    iTMS/AppleStore/.Mac was written in WebObjects, right - and
    originally in the Objective C version. WebObjects converted to Java
    (not J2EE) years ago, although some users continue to run the ObjC
    version of WebObjects, because of philosophical objections to Java
    (nothing new there).

    I believe, but can't confirm, that Apple's internal WebObjects apps
    were converted to the Java version of WebObjects.

    There is no 'free' version of ObjC WebObjects; GNUstep is not
    WebObjects. There are some OSS implementations based on ObjC, with
    and without GNUstep, but nothing that is feature complete and
    compatible.

    The current version of WebObjects (Java) is 'free', as it comes with
    XCode, but is not Open Source.

    Paul
     
    Paul Lynch, Sep 10, 2006
    #17
  18. Joseph

    Jeff Wood Guest

    On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:35:25 -0700, Tim Smith
    <> wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > "Joseph" <> wrote:
    >> INTERESTING FACTS
    >>
    >> * Not a single significant "safe" Java J2EE in the top 20.

    >
    > That's the top 20 web sites that users directly visit. It doesn't
    > really give you visibility into what is running on the back end for the
    > sites that are included. Amazon, for example, uses a lot of J2EE.
    >
    > Worse, it misses sites like the iTunes Music Store completely, which is
    > a huge enterprise application. iTMS is a Webobjects application, so is
    > running on J2EE.
    >


    On what grounds do you state that Amazon "uses a lot of J2EE" ???

    Can you give us a link or something ?

    Seeing as they seem to always be looking for web devs with Perl & Mason
    skills, I'm just wondering how that fits into your "a lot of J2EE" ...

    Looking @ the job ads from Amazon, I see lots of C++, Java & Perl jobs ...
    I think they're using a bit of all 3 ( but if you look at the web
    developer stuff, seems to be more heavily perl/mason than either of the
    others. )

    Anyways ... was just wanting to know where you get your information from.

    j.
     
    Jeff Wood, Sep 11, 2006
    #18
  19. Joseph

    Paul Lynch Guest

    On 11 Sep 2006, at 20:06, Robert Dober wrote:

    > On 9/10/06, Paul Lynch <> wrote:
    >>
    >> On 10 Sep 2006, at 22:15, Robert Dober wrote:
    >>
    >> > I had the very faint hope that a free version of Webobjects was
    >> > used,
    >> > these are still in Objective-C, sorry if I wasted your time, I
    >> > tried to pay
    >> > you back with the URIs for the two Objective-C versions, but just
    >> > cannot get
    >> > my hands on my last Linux-Mag France.
    >> > One obviously is GNU-Step, but the other...., sorry :(

    >>
    >> There is no 'free' version of ObjC WebObjects; GNUstep is not
    >> WebObjects. There are some OSS implementations based on ObjC, with
    >> and without GNUstep, but nothing that is feature complete and
    >> compatible.
    >>
    >> The current version of WebObjects (Java) is 'free', as it comes with
    >> XCode, but is not Open Source.
    >>
    >> Just found it - my Linux Mag-, yep it is quite old (June 2004) but
    >> it is

    > talking about NGObjWeb and there is GNUstepWeb (sorry for having been
    > inprecise), but all references seem quite old (<= 2004) so there
    > probably is
    > no Objective-C implementation of WebObjects anymore. at least none
    > useful.
    > SKYRIX (who was developpong NGObjWeb) seems to be more concentrated on
    > propriatary SW now.
    > What a pitty, sorry for the OT noise. (Well the whole thread is
    > anyway ;)


    The closest thing I am aware of is SOPE (http://
    sope.opengroupware.org/index.html), which is a superset of NGObjWeb.
    This is what I was referring to as "not very compatible" with
    WebObjects - mostly because the database layer is rather different,
    but other reasons apply as well; SOPE is still active. It is just
    that Skyrix split SOPE into the opengroupware site. To put it into
    perspective, you might think that SOPE is to WebObjects as Rails
    without ActiveRecord is to full Rails. Kinda.

    The last news post at www.gnustepweb.org was dated 2003 :(.

    Paul
     
    Paul Lynch, Sep 11, 2006
    #19
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    334
    Roedy Green
    May 6, 2008
  2. John
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    155
    Trans
    Aug 24, 2005
  3. Replies:
    68
    Views:
    563
    John W. Kennedy
    Oct 6, 2007
  4. Fernando Perez

    Real world ruby programs to learn from

    Fernando Perez, Sep 30, 2008, in forum: Ruby
    Replies:
    11
    Views:
    179
    Nit Khair
    Oct 2, 2008
  5. Philip Rhoades
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    291
    Charles Oliver Nutter
    Oct 22, 2010
Loading...

Share This Page