Really basic data entry question [Beginner]

Discussion in 'Java' started by AMT2K5, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. AMT2K5

    AMT2K5 Guest

    Hello,

    I have a simple data script that looks like this:

    Box of
    Hammer(s)
    #
    6 Pack of
    Washer(s)
    #


    Which is stored in a StringBuffer


    I have the code

    InventoryItem[] InvItems = new InventoryItem[10];

    for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++) {
    InvItems = new InventoryItem();
    InvItems.inventoryId = i+1; // ?
    InvItems.quantityInStock = 2.5 *
    InvItems.inventoryId;
    InvItems.update(a);
    }


    Where (a) is the passed into the method as a StringBuffer consisting of
    that data script read at an earlier time.

    I want to update each object's attributes consisting of Product and
    Unit/Package, by using the update function (public int
    update(StringBuffer sb)) .

    How would I go about doing that?

    So InvItems[0] has a product of 'Hammer(s)' and a unit/package of 'Box
    Of',
    in the for loop when InvItems[1] comes along, it has a product of
    'Washer(s)' and a unit/package of '6 Pack-of'

    Thanks in advance, any help appreciated.


    PS: I figure it will look something like this to start

    public int update(StringBuffer sb){
    String temp = new String();
    StringTokenizer tk = new StringTokenizer(sb.toString(),"#");
    while (tk.hasMoreTokens()) {
    System.out.println(tk.nextToken());
    }


    return 0;
    }


    My data script looks like this


    Box of 100
    Bolt(s)
    #
    Motherload of
    Widget(s)
    #
    Box of 25
    Grommet(s)
    #
    Box of 50
    Hammer(s)
    #
    24-Pack of
    Washer(s)
    #
    Box of
    Gizmo(s)
    #
    One
    Blade(s)
    #
    6-Pack of
    O-Ring(s)
    #
    Motherload of
    Thingy(ies)
    #
    Box of
    Nut(s)
    #

    Each pair between the sharps are the two attributes for the current
    object this.
    AMT2K5, Mar 7, 2006
    #1
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  2. AMT2K5

    Rhino Guest

    "AMT2K5" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello,
    >
    > I have a simple data script that looks like this:
    >
    > Box of
    > Hammer(s)
    > #
    > 6 Pack of
    > Washer(s)
    > #
    >
    >
    > Which is stored in a StringBuffer
    >
    >
    > I have the code
    >
    > InventoryItem[] InvItems = new InventoryItem[10];
    >
    > for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++) {
    > InvItems = new InventoryItem();
    > InvItems.inventoryId = i+1; // ?
    > InvItems.quantityInStock = 2.5 *
    > InvItems.inventoryId;
    > InvItems.update(a);
    > }
    >
    >
    > Where (a) is the passed into the method as a StringBuffer consisting of
    > that data script read at an earlier time.
    >
    > I want to update each object's attributes consisting of Product and
    > Unit/Package, by using the update function (public int
    > update(StringBuffer sb)) .
    >
    > How would I go about doing that?
    >
    > So InvItems[0] has a product of 'Hammer(s)' and a unit/package of 'Box
    > Of',
    > in the for loop when InvItems[1] comes along, it has a product of
    > 'Washer(s)' and a unit/package of '6 Pack-of'
    >
    > Thanks in advance, any help appreciated.
    >
    >
    > PS: I figure it will look something like this to start
    >
    > public int update(StringBuffer sb){
    > String temp = new String();
    > StringTokenizer tk = new StringTokenizer(sb.toString(),"#");
    > while (tk.hasMoreTokens()) {
    > System.out.println(tk.nextToken());
    > }
    >
    >
    > return 0;
    > }
    >
    >
    > My data script looks like this
    >
    >
    > Box of 100
    > Bolt(s)
    > #
    > Motherload of
    > Widget(s)
    > #
    > Box of 25
    > Grommet(s)
    > #
    > Box of 50
    > Hammer(s)
    > #
    > 24-Pack of
    > Washer(s)
    > #
    > Box of
    > Gizmo(s)
    > #
    > One
    > Blade(s)
    > #
    > 6-Pack of
    > O-Ring(s)
    > #
    > Motherload of
    > Thingy(ies)
    > #
    > Box of
    > Nut(s)
    > #
    >
    > Each pair between the sharps are the two attributes for the current
    > object this.
    >


    "Data script"???

    Is this a term you invented yourself? Because if your teacher told you this,
    you need a new teacher. In 25+ years in IT, I've never heard of a 'data
    script'. The normal term for this is 'input file' as anyone with 20 minutes
    of IT experience could tell you. Do a Google search on "data script" and
    then another on "input file" and I think you will see that the latter gets a
    lot more hits.....

    --

    Aside from that point, do you really have to read in data in the exact
    format you show in your post? Because I can't picture any professional
    organization doing it that way. At the very least, they would mentally
    translate the data into columns. More likely, they would store this data in
    a database where it belongs. I've never once had to write a program to turn
    a two line text string like:

    24-Pack of
    Washers

    into:

    Washers 24-pack

    I doubt I'd use a StringBuffer for this program either.

    Please note that I don't mean to ridicule _you_; it's the assignment (and
    the person who created it) that I'm ridiculing.

    I was going to go on and help answer the question but it's just so
    unrealistic I don't think I can play along after all.

    Sorry.

    --
    Rhino
    Rhino, Mar 7, 2006
    #2
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  3. AMT2K5

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "AMT2K5" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello,
    >
    > I have a simple data script that looks like this:
    >
    > Box of
    > Hammer(s)
    > #
    > 6 Pack of
    > Washer(s)
    > #
    >
    >
    > Which is stored in a StringBuffer
    >
    >
    > I have the code
    >
    > InventoryItem[] InvItems = new InventoryItem[10];
    >
    > for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++) {
    > InvItems = new InventoryItem();
    > InvItems.inventoryId = i+1; // ?
    > InvItems.quantityInStock = 2.5 *
    > InvItems.inventoryId;
    > InvItems.update(a);
    > }
    >
    >
    > Where (a) is the passed into the method as a StringBuffer consisting of
    > that data script read at an earlier time.
    >
    > I want to update each object's attributes consisting of Product and
    > Unit/Package, by using the update function (public int
    > update(StringBuffer sb)) .
    >
    > How would I go about doing that?
    >
    > So InvItems[0] has a product of 'Hammer(s)' and a unit/package of 'Box
    > Of',
    > in the for loop when InvItems[1] comes along, it has a product of
    > 'Washer(s)' and a unit/package of '6 Pack-of'
    >
    > Thanks in advance, any help appreciated.
    >
    >
    > PS: I figure it will look something like this to start
    >
    > public int update(StringBuffer sb){
    > String temp = new String();
    > StringTokenizer tk = new StringTokenizer(sb.toString(),"#");
    > while (tk.hasMoreTokens()) {
    > System.out.println(tk.nextToken());
    > }
    >
    >
    > return 0;
    > }
    >
    >
    > My data script looks like this
    >
    >
    > Box of 100
    > Bolt(s)
    > #
    > Motherload of
    > Widget(s)
    > #
    > Box of 25
    > Grommet(s)
    > #
    > Box of 50
    > Hammer(s)
    > #
    > 24-Pack of
    > Washer(s)
    > #
    > Box of
    > Gizmo(s)
    > #
    > One
    > Blade(s)
    > #
    > 6-Pack of
    > O-Ring(s)
    > #
    > Motherload of
    > Thingy(ies)
    > #
    > Box of
    > Nut(s)
    > #
    >
    > Each pair between the sharps are the two attributes for the current
    > object this.
    >


    It's not clear (to me at least) what your program is supposed to do.
    What does it mean to have a "data script in a StringBuffer"? What are the
    types of the fields of InventoryItem?

    Maybe you should post an SSCCE http://mindprod.com/jgloss/sscce.html

    - Oliver
    Oliver Wong, Mar 7, 2006
    #3
  4. AMT2K5

    Tail_Spin Guest

    > "Data script"???
    >
    > Is this a term you invented yourself?

    He already stated that he was a [Beginner]

    >Because if your teacher told you this,
    > you need a new teacher. In 25+ years in IT, I've never heard of a 'data
    > script'.
    > Please note that I don't mean to ridicule _you_; it's the assignment (and
    > the person who created it) that I'm ridiculing.

    I think he was looking for help not an observation on how stupid the
    assignment was!

    > I doubt I'd use a StringBuffer for this program either.

    Why not tell him what you would do then to solve this problem???

    > I was going to go on and help answer the question but it's just so
    > unrealistic I don't think I can play along after all.

    If you weren't going to provide any help, what was the point of your post?
    other than to tell him that his terminology was incorrect, the assignment
    was dumb and useless, and finally that you weren't going to help???

    SPECIAL NOTE:
    Many times college and university professors hand out really dumb and
    totally useless assignments. Your job as a student is to complete those
    assignments to the best of your abilities. Providing comments about how
    useless and stupid the assignments are doesn't help get the job done!

    > Rhino
    Tail_Spin, Mar 8, 2006
    #4
  5. AMT2K5

    Rhino Guest

    "Tail_Spin" <> wrote in message
    news:RopPf.120834$B94.77447@pd7tw3no...
    >> "Data script"???
    >>
    >> Is this a term you invented yourself?

    > He already stated that he was a [Beginner]
    >
    >>Because if your teacher told you this,
    >> you need a new teacher. In 25+ years in IT, I've never heard of a 'data
    >> script'.
    >> Please note that I don't mean to ridicule _you_; it's the assignment (and
    >> the person who created it) that I'm ridiculing.

    > I think he was looking for help not an observation on how stupid the
    > assignment was!
    >
    >> I doubt I'd use a StringBuffer for this program either.

    > Why not tell him what you would do then to solve this problem???
    >
    >> I was going to go on and help answer the question but it's just so
    >> unrealistic I don't think I can play along after all.

    > If you weren't going to provide any help, what was the point of your post?
    > other than to tell him that his terminology was incorrect, the assignment
    > was dumb and useless, and finally that you weren't going to help???
    >
    > SPECIAL NOTE:
    > Many times college and university professors hand out really dumb and
    > totally useless assignments. Your job as a student is to complete those
    > assignments to the best of your abilities. Providing comments about how
    > useless and stupid the assignments are doesn't help get the job done!
    >

    I'd say your post didn't help him/her very much either....

    --
    Rhino
    Rhino, Mar 8, 2006
    #5
  6. Tail_Spin wrote:
    > I think he was looking for help not an observation on how stupid the
    > assignment was!


    This is a discussion group, not a help desk. In particular, this is not
    a do-my-homework service, and this group does not replace tutors,
    professors and teachers. And, probably the most important, it is not a
    replacement for engaging the own brain and reading the course textbook
    and course notes.

    > If you weren't going to provide any help, what was the point of your post?
    > other than to tell him that his terminology was incorrect, the assignment
    > was dumb and useless, and finally that you weren't going to help???


    Setting one straight on the terminology is indeed help. If one can't
    communicate in the language of the trade he has a serious problem he
    might want to work on. And since the primary job of a student is to
    learn something, such a hint is a great opportunity to learn.

    A student like you who gets annoyed when someone is presented with an
    an opportunity to learn something should seriously ask if studying is
    the right thing to do.

    > SPECIAL NOTE:
    > Many times college and university professors hand out really dumb and
    > totally useless assignments. Your job as a student is to complete those
    > assignments to the best of your abilities.


    Ye,. *YOUR* abilities, not ours. We do you students a courtesy if we
    point out where their abilities are lacking. E.g. abilities in
    formulating a coherent question.

    > Providing comments about how
    > useless and stupid the assignments are doesn't help get the job done!


    It is not up to you to dictate what people have to answer. You have no
    right to get an answer at all. You have no right to get the answer you
    want to hear. You have not even a right to get read.

    If one can't stand criticisms one better not posts to a public
    discussion group. If one wants to cheat on an homework assignment one
    better not posts to a public discussion group, too.

    /Thomas
    --
    The comp.lang.java.gui FAQ:
    ftp://ftp.cs.uu.nl/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/computer-lang/java/gui/faq
    http://www.uni-giessen.de/faq/archiv/computer-lang.java.gui.faq/
    Thomas Weidenfeller, Mar 8, 2006
    #6
  7. AMT2K5

    Tail_Spin Guest

    My replay was not to him but to YOU. With your 25+ years of IT you couldn't
    comprehend that part?


    "Rhino" <> wrote in message
    news:ICtPf.1545$...
    >
    > "Tail_Spin" <> wrote in message
    > news:RopPf.120834$B94.77447@pd7tw3no...
    > >> "Data script"???
    > >>
    > >> Is this a term you invented yourself?

    > > He already stated that he was a [Beginner]
    > >
    > >>Because if your teacher told you this,
    > >> you need a new teacher. In 25+ years in IT, I've never heard of a 'data
    > >> script'.
    > >> Please note that I don't mean to ridicule _you_; it's the assignment

    (and
    > >> the person who created it) that I'm ridiculing.

    > > I think he was looking for help not an observation on how stupid the
    > > assignment was!
    > >
    > >> I doubt I'd use a StringBuffer for this program either.

    > > Why not tell him what you would do then to solve this problem???
    > >
    > >> I was going to go on and help answer the question but it's just so
    > >> unrealistic I don't think I can play along after all.

    > > If you weren't going to provide any help, what was the point of your

    post?
    > > other than to tell him that his terminology was incorrect, the

    assignment
    > > was dumb and useless, and finally that you weren't going to help???
    > >
    > > SPECIAL NOTE:
    > > Many times college and university professors hand out really dumb and
    > > totally useless assignments. Your job as a student is to complete those
    > > assignments to the best of your abilities. Providing comments about how
    > > useless and stupid the assignments are doesn't help get the job done!
    > >

    > I'd say your post didn't help him/her very much either....
    >
    > --
    > Rhino
    >
    >
    Tail_Spin, Mar 8, 2006
    #7
  8. AMT2K5

    Chris Uppal Guest

    Thomas Weidenfeller wrote:
    > Tail_Spin wrote:

    [...]
    > It is not up to you to dictate what people have to answer. You have no
    > right to get an answer at all. You have no right to get the answer you
    > want to hear. You have not even a right to get read.


    I don't think Tail_Spin is connected with the OP.

    -- chris
    Chris Uppal, Mar 8, 2006
    #8
  9. AMT2K5

    Tail_Spin Guest

    "Thomas Weidenfeller" <> wrote in message
    news:dum3uk$87n$...
    > Tail_Spin wrote:
    > > I think he was looking for help not an observation on how stupid the
    > > assignment was!

    >
    > This is a discussion group, not a help desk. In particular, this is not
    > a do-my-homework service, and this group does not replace tutors,
    > professors and teachers. And, probably the most important, it is not a
    > replacement for engaging the own brain and reading the course textbook
    > and course notes.
    >

    Agreed completely!

    > > If you weren't going to provide any help, what was the point of your

    post?
    > > other than to tell him that his terminology was incorrect, the

    assignment
    > > was dumb and useless, and finally that you weren't going to help???

    >
    > Setting one straight on the terminology is indeed help. If one can't
    > communicate in the language of the trade he has a serious problem he
    > might want to work on. And since the primary job of a student is to
    > learn something, such a hint is a great opportunity to learn.
    >

    To learn, know, and use the terminology correctly is a great asset and you
    must be able to communicate correct meanings in your post. However, I took
    exception with the attitude and presentation of Rhino's post.

    > A student like you who gets annoyed when someone is presented with an
    > an opportunity to learn something should seriously ask if studying is
    > the right thing to do.
    >

    I don't recall saying anywhere that I am currently a student? Yes I was a
    student of Computer Information Systems at my local university where I
    worked hard enough to be on the dean's list for 3 consecutive years,
    (Unfortunately because of medical reasons I was unable to continue with
    school.). But that doesn't give me the right to impress upon people how
    smart I am or imply how stupid their questions or projects are. I also
    didn't see anywhere where AMT2K5 said he was in school, maybe he is trying
    to learn Java on his own and doesn't have a clear enough understanding of
    what it is he is trying to do. You know what they say about assumptions
    right?

    I too have been involved with computers both with hardware and programming
    for about 20 years. So I'm not a total newbie but I am a relative newbie to
    java. One thing I have learned is the more you learn about computers and
    programming, the more you realize you've only scratch the surface in this
    whole technologically changing world. So all of us need to be wary about
    trying impress people with how much we know in any area of technology, it's
    a constant learning environment.

    > > SPECIAL NOTE:
    > > Many times college and university professors hand out really dumb and
    > > totally useless assignments. Your job as a student is to complete those
    > > assignments to the best of your abilities.

    >
    > Ye,. *YOUR* abilities, not ours. We do you students a courtesy if we
    > point out where their abilities are lacking. E.g. abilities in
    > formulating a coherent question.
    >

    True, my bad, ... I forgot you are so much smarter than the rest of us
    newbies, "We do you students a courtesy". Don't tell me, ... let me guess,
    you're some college or university professor with a head-up-your-ass
    attitude, probably with a masters or doctorate, and you feel your are so
    much superior than all the rest of us right?

    > > Providing comments about how
    > > useless and stupid the assignments are doesn't help get the job done!

    >
    > It is not up to you to dictate what people have to answer. You have no
    > right to get an answer at all. You have no right to get the answer you
    > want to hear. You have not even a right to get read.
    >


    > If one can't stand criticisms one better not posts to a public
    > discussion group. If one wants to cheat on an homework assignment one
    > better not posts to a public discussion group, too.
    >

    Fine criticise if you feel the need, but at least provide a viable solution,
    if not then your are just spewing out trash. And as far as the cheating
    goes, I agree completely. I've seen too many students that don't deserve to
    be in any kind of IT program. They think IT is the way to big $$$$ and they
    don't have a first clue what to do when it comes to writing code, can't even
    perform any kind of premitive debugging without some kind of fancy wysiwyg
    IDE to help them.

    So there, I've said my negative piece and only about 2 weeks after I made a
    comment on this news group about all the negativism you keep seeing on news
    groups these days. I feel ashamed to have to stoop to such a low level, but
    I also feel I have to say my piece too.

    Oh and remember --> If one can't stand criticisms one better not posts to a
    public discussion group.

    > /Thomas
    > --
    > The comp.lang.java.gui FAQ:
    > ftp://ftp.cs.uu.nl/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/computer-lang/java/gui/faq
    > http://www.uni-giessen.de/faq/archiv/computer-lang.java.gui.faq/
    Tail_Spin, Mar 8, 2006
    #9
  10. AMT2K5

    Chris Uppal Guest

    Rhino wrote:

    > "Data script"???
    >
    > Is this a term you invented yourself? Because if your teacher told you
    > this, you need a new teacher. In 25+ years in IT, I've never heard of a
    > 'data script'.


    Ah, but you are also the person who thought that splitting certain ranges of
    characters out of every line of an input file was an unrealistic excersize for
    a student. The guy[*] who had never heard of any real-world application for
    such an operation in all his years in the industry ;-)

    ([*] I assume for simplicity of grammar)


    > Because I can't picture any professional
    > organization doing it that way.


    I can. I can also imagine the same organisation using the term "data script".
    It looks very like a format that was designed originally for data-entry clerks
    to type in. (In which case a file containing the same format text is quite
    naturally called a "data script"). Obviously that would be quite some time
    ago -- before these updstart SQL databases became fashionable -- but that
    doesn't mean the term was never valid. And some teachers are quite old too,
    you know. What's more, they may know a lot that we (who hardly ever have to
    deal with bandwidth/latency/RAM issues when simply processing data) miss out
    on.

    -- chris
    Chris Uppal, Mar 8, 2006
    #10
  11. AMT2K5

    Chris Uppal Guest

    AMT2K5 wrote:

    > I want to update each object's attributes consisting of Product and
    > Unit/Package, by using the update function (public int
    > update(StringBuffer sb)) .


    This is really very odd. Are you sure that's what the question is asking you
    to do ? It's not normal to use a StringBuffer to hold data that you are
    reading from, they are much more commonly use to build Strings.

    You /can/ use one to take input data apart, but you'll destroy the data in the
    process, and it's not a way of doing it that would occur to an ordinary Java
    programmer.

    What you can do is use a loop, plus characterAt() to find where the first line
    in the buffer ends. The use substring() to create a new String from the first
    However many characters that is. Then use delete() to remove those characters
    from the start of the buffer (including the line terminator). Then you do that
    again to pull out the second line. Then you do it a third time to pull out the
    line that consists of just # (which you discard). That gives you the two
    strings which you can use to update one InventoryItem. Then you put all that
    inside another loop which will update all the InventoryItems. By the end of
    the loop, you shouldn't have any data left in the StringBuffer, and you
    shouldn't have any InventoryItems left to process. If you have, then you've
    done something wrong ;-)

    But I repeat: code like that is /very/ strange, and you'd never (I hope!) see a
    working Java programmer writing it. So I still suspect that the question was
    actually asking for something else entirely.

    -- chris
    Chris Uppal, Mar 8, 2006
    #11
  12. AMT2K5

    Rhino Guest

    "Tail_Spin" <> wrote in message
    news:baxPf.121923$sa3.102975@pd7tw1no...
    > My replay was not to him but to YOU. With your 25+ years of IT you
    > couldn't
    > comprehend that part?
    >

    Yeah, I got that but instead of attacking me you could have been helping the
    original poster instead of attacking ME for not helping the original poster.
    That was my point - or didn't you comprehend that part?

    And I stand by my remark that if a _teacher_ used the term 'data script' he
    wasn't very experienced in IT. I've never heard an input file called a 'data
    script' in my life and I do have 25+ years in IT. If a newbie calls it that,
    that is a perfectly reasonable guess at what such a thing should be called
    but if he/she heard that from a teacher, he/she should have reservations
    about what the qualifications of the teacher.

    --
    Rhino

    >
    > "Rhino" <> wrote in message
    > news:ICtPf.1545$...
    >>
    >> "Tail_Spin" <> wrote in message
    >> news:RopPf.120834$B94.77447@pd7tw3no...
    >> >> "Data script"???
    >> >>
    >> >> Is this a term you invented yourself?
    >> > He already stated that he was a [Beginner]
    >> >
    >> >>Because if your teacher told you this,
    >> >> you need a new teacher. In 25+ years in IT, I've never heard of a
    >> >> 'data
    >> >> script'.
    >> >> Please note that I don't mean to ridicule _you_; it's the assignment

    > (and
    >> >> the person who created it) that I'm ridiculing.
    >> > I think he was looking for help not an observation on how stupid the
    >> > assignment was!
    >> >
    >> >> I doubt I'd use a StringBuffer for this program either.
    >> > Why not tell him what you would do then to solve this problem???
    >> >
    >> >> I was going to go on and help answer the question but it's just so
    >> >> unrealistic I don't think I can play along after all.
    >> > If you weren't going to provide any help, what was the point of your

    > post?
    >> > other than to tell him that his terminology was incorrect, the

    > assignment
    >> > was dumb and useless, and finally that you weren't going to help???
    >> >
    >> > SPECIAL NOTE:
    >> > Many times college and university professors hand out really dumb and
    >> > totally useless assignments. Your job as a student is to complete
    >> > those
    >> > assignments to the best of your abilities. Providing comments about
    >> > how
    >> > useless and stupid the assignments are doesn't help get the job done!
    >> >

    >> I'd say your post didn't help him/her very much either....
    >>
    >> --
    >> Rhino
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    Rhino, Mar 8, 2006
    #12
  13. AMT2K5

    Rhino Guest

    "Tail_Spin" <> wrote in message
    news:S7yPf.122589$sa3.103166@pd7tw1no...
    >
    > "Thomas Weidenfeller" <> wrote in message
    > news:dum3uk$87n$...
    >> Tail_Spin wrote:
    >> > I think he was looking for help not an observation on how stupid the
    >> > assignment was!

    >>
    >> This is a discussion group, not a help desk. In particular, this is not
    >> a do-my-homework service, and this group does not replace tutors,
    >> professors and teachers. And, probably the most important, it is not a
    >> replacement for engaging the own brain and reading the course textbook
    >> and course notes.
    >>

    > Agreed completely!
    >
    >> > If you weren't going to provide any help, what was the point of your

    > post?
    >> > other than to tell him that his terminology was incorrect, the

    > assignment
    >> > was dumb and useless, and finally that you weren't going to help???

    >>
    >> Setting one straight on the terminology is indeed help. If one can't
    >> communicate in the language of the trade he has a serious problem he
    >> might want to work on. And since the primary job of a student is to
    >> learn something, such a hint is a great opportunity to learn.
    >>

    > To learn, know, and use the terminology correctly is a great asset and you
    > must be able to communicate correct meanings in your post. However, I
    > took
    > exception with the attitude and presentation of Rhino's post.
    >

    Well, if it makes you feel any better, it wasn't my proudest moment either.
    But I stand by the contention that it is an unrealistic assignment.

    >> A student like you who gets annoyed when someone is presented with an
    >> an opportunity to learn something should seriously ask if studying is
    >> the right thing to do.
    >>

    > I don't recall saying anywhere that I am currently a student? Yes I was a
    > student of Computer Information Systems at my local university where I
    > worked hard enough to be on the dean's list for 3 consecutive years,


    Hmm, now who's trying to impress people....

    > (Unfortunately because of medical reasons I was unable to continue with
    > school.). But that doesn't give me the right to impress upon people how
    > smart I am or imply how stupid their questions or projects are. I also
    > didn't see anywhere where AMT2K5 said he was in school, maybe he is trying
    > to learn Java on his own and doesn't have a clear enough understanding of
    > what it is he is trying to do. You know what they say about assumptions
    > right?
    >
    > I too have been involved with computers both with hardware and programming
    > for about 20 years. So I'm not a total newbie but I am a relative newbie
    > to
    > java. One thing I have learned is the more you learn about computers and
    > programming, the more you realize you've only scratch the surface in this
    > whole technologically changing world. So all of us need to be wary about
    > trying impress people with how much we know in any area of technology,
    > it's
    > a constant learning environment.
    >

    You could stand to take some of your own advice with regards to assumptions.
    I was NOT trying to impress anyone; I was simply saying that in 25 years in
    IT, I had never heard of a 'data script'. This may be a common term in some
    areas but it isn't in any of the areas where I have worked. I only mentioned
    25 years to indicate that I was not an IT newbie that may not have heard the
    term yet. Period.


    >> > SPECIAL NOTE:
    >> > Many times college and university professors hand out really dumb and
    >> > totally useless assignments. Your job as a student is to complete
    >> > those
    >> > assignments to the best of your abilities.

    >>

    In my opinion, giving out dumb and totally useless assignments is almost a
    total waste of time for the student who wants to learn something that will
    be useful in later professional work. That's why I reacted the way I did; it
    just feels wrong to cater to the kind of silliness inherent in the
    assignment - assuming it WAS an assignment; it sounded like one to me.

    >> Ye,. *YOUR* abilities, not ours. We do you students a courtesy if we
    >> point out where their abilities are lacking. E.g. abilities in
    >> formulating a coherent question.
    >>

    > True, my bad, ... I forgot you are so much smarter than the rest of us
    > newbies, "We do you students a courtesy". Don't tell me, ... let me
    > guess,
    > you're some college or university professor with a head-up-your-ass
    > attitude, probably with a masters or doctorate, and you feel your are so
    > much superior than all the rest of us right?
    >
    >> > Providing comments about how
    >> > useless and stupid the assignments are doesn't help get the job done!

    >>
    >> It is not up to you to dictate what people have to answer. You have no
    >> right to get an answer at all. You have no right to get the answer you
    >> want to hear. You have not even a right to get read.
    >>

    >
    >> If one can't stand criticisms one better not posts to a public
    >> discussion group. If one wants to cheat on an homework assignment one
    >> better not posts to a public discussion group, too.
    >>

    > Fine criticise if you feel the need, but at least provide a viable
    > solution,
    > if not then your are just spewing out trash. And as far as the cheating
    > goes, I agree completely. I've seen too many students that don't deserve
    > to
    > be in any kind of IT program. They think IT is the way to big $$$$ and
    > they
    > don't have a first clue what to do when it comes to writing code, can't
    > even
    > perform any kind of premitive debugging without some kind of fancy wysiwyg
    > IDE to help them.
    >
    > So there, I've said my negative piece and only about 2 weeks after I made
    > a
    > comment on this news group about all the negativism you keep seeing on
    > news
    > groups these days. I feel ashamed to have to stoop to such a low level,
    > but
    > I also feel I have to say my piece too.
    >

    Rhino
    > Oh and remember --> If one can't stand criticisms one better not posts to
    > a
    > public discussion group.
    >
    >> /Thomas
    >> --
    >> The comp.lang.java.gui FAQ:
    >> ftp://ftp.cs.uu.nl/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/computer-lang/java/gui/faq
    >> http://www.uni-giessen.de/faq/archiv/computer-lang.java.gui.faq/

    >
    >
    Rhino, Mar 8, 2006
    #13
  14. AMT2K5

    Rhino Guest

    "Chris Uppal" <-THIS.org> wrote in message
    news:440ebe3e$1$1173$...
    > Rhino wrote:
    >
    >> "Data script"???
    >>
    >> Is this a term you invented yourself? Because if your teacher told you
    >> this, you need a new teacher. In 25+ years in IT, I've never heard of a
    >> 'data script'.

    >
    > Ah, but you are also the person who thought that splitting certain ranges
    > of
    > characters out of every line of an input file was an unrealistic excersize
    > for
    > a student. The guy[*] who had never heard of any real-world application
    > for
    > such an operation in all his years in the industry ;-)
    >

    You should reread that thread. I explained that I was construing that
    question in a much narrower way than the rest of the group had. Maybe you
    missed that?

    > ([*] I assume for simplicity of grammar)
    >

    Your assumption is correct.
    >
    >> Because I can't picture any professional
    >> organization doing it that way.

    >
    > I can. I can also imagine the same organisation using the term "data
    > script".
    > It looks very like a format that was designed originally for data-entry
    > clerks
    > to type in. (In which case a file containing the same format text is quite
    > naturally called a "data script"). Obviously that would be quite some time
    > ago -- before these updstart SQL databases became fashionable -- but that
    > doesn't mean the term was never valid.


    Agreed. I did not state categorically that this term was never used anywhere
    at any time in the course of human history though; I simply said *I* had
    never heard it. Have you heard anyone use the term 'data script'? Maybe this
    is a common term in the UK?

    By the same token, I've never once seen an input file that was laid out like
    the original poster describes. Have you? It seems to me that such a file
    would always be cleaned up at least a little bit along the lines I
    suggested, even if it wasn't properly normalized.

    >And some teachers are quite old too,
    > you know. What's more, they may know a lot that we (who hardly ever have
    > to
    > deal with bandwidth/latency/RAM issues when simply processing data) miss
    > out
    > on.
    >

    Agreed. I still remember learning from 'old-timers' when I was getting
    started and use some of their lessons to this day, although I've found that
    I had to discard many as being inapplicable to modern computing. But basic
    values like clarity, avoiding 'cutesy' code, documenting your work are key
    parts of what I do.

    Aside from the terminology nitpick over 'data script', my concern was
    basically that the assignment wasn't very representative of what a real life
    IT person would encounter in a real IT organization. Frankly, I think that
    makes the assignment almost pointless. It's a bit like learning how to build
    ramps so that you can jump your car over a narrow river; yes it's possible
    but it isn't how most people use a car so it makes more sense to learn
    something useful, like how to drive in heavy traffic. I think the original
    poster's teacher was largely wasting the original poster's time. In the end,
    I didn't feel right about reinforcing that foolishness by helping the
    student solve a silly question.

    --
    Rhino
    Rhino, Mar 8, 2006
    #14
  15. AMT2K5

    Tail_Spin Guest

    Sorry for the personal attack, Rhino.
    I didn't start out trying to get personal, I guess I just went overboard.
    I'm get'n a little bit tired of people in the news groups being negative and
    I guess I let it get to me. I see a lot of people in the computing industry
    trying to usurp their level on the tech pecking order. We all were newbies
    at one time and shouldn't forget that fact. And when people are asking a
    questions that seem really dumb at the time, we as a programming community
    should try to help them as much as we can.

    I absolutely agree %100 about students doing their own assignments though.
    Most assignments are doable if you pay attention and do the prep-work that
    is required to compete the assignments. Because of my previous experience
    in assembler and C, I had a lot of fellow students ask to see my code when I
    was in school, (usually when the assignment was due the next day). However,
    I would not give them much if any of my code, but rather try to provide
    direction and basic pseudo-code. I'm no brain, probably a bit below average
    because I'm a bit ADD, (attention deficit disorder), so I had to bust me ass
    to get decent grades, and it really pissed me off to see lazy-ass kids
    coasting though school, just riding on other peoples work.

    I just think one of the main purpose of the news groups should be to help
    people with their programming problems. But as in all aspects of pretty
    well any kind of programming, there always seems to be this "I'm starter
    than you" or "I'm more experienced than you (insult)" pecking-order attitude
    that seems to be quite prevelent. And I really hate that, because we are
    all just trying to figure this stuff out and get better at it.





    "Rhino" <> wrote in message
    news:kYEPf.16779$...
    >
    > "Tail_Spin" <> wrote in message
    > news:S7yPf.122589$sa3.103166@pd7tw1no...
    > >
    > > "Thomas Weidenfeller" <> wrote in message
    > > news:dum3uk$87n$...
    > >> Tail_Spin wrote:
    > >> > I think he was looking for help not an observation on how stupid the
    > >> > assignment was!
    > >>
    > >> This is a discussion group, not a help desk. In particular, this is not
    > >> a do-my-homework service, and this group does not replace tutors,
    > >> professors and teachers. And, probably the most important, it is not a
    > >> replacement for engaging the own brain and reading the course textbook
    > >> and course notes.
    > >>

    > > Agreed completely!
    > >
    > >> > If you weren't going to provide any help, what was the point of your

    > > post?
    > >> > other than to tell him that his terminology was incorrect, the

    > > assignment
    > >> > was dumb and useless, and finally that you weren't going to help???
    > >>
    > >> Setting one straight on the terminology is indeed help. If one can't
    > >> communicate in the language of the trade he has a serious problem he
    > >> might want to work on. And since the primary job of a student is to
    > >> learn something, such a hint is a great opportunity to learn.
    > >>

    > > To learn, know, and use the terminology correctly is a great asset and

    you
    > > must be able to communicate correct meanings in your post. However, I
    > > took
    > > exception with the attitude and presentation of Rhino's post.
    > >

    > Well, if it makes you feel any better, it wasn't my proudest moment

    either.
    > But I stand by the contention that it is an unrealistic assignment.
    >
    > >> A student like you who gets annoyed when someone is presented with an
    > >> an opportunity to learn something should seriously ask if studying is
    > >> the right thing to do.
    > >>

    > > I don't recall saying anywhere that I am currently a student? Yes I was

    a
    > > student of Computer Information Systems at my local university where I
    > > worked hard enough to be on the dean's list for 3 consecutive years,

    >
    > Hmm, now who's trying to impress people....
    >
    > > (Unfortunately because of medical reasons I was unable to continue with
    > > school.). But that doesn't give me the right to impress upon people how
    > > smart I am or imply how stupid their questions or projects are. I also
    > > didn't see anywhere where AMT2K5 said he was in school, maybe he is

    trying
    > > to learn Java on his own and doesn't have a clear enough understanding

    of
    > > what it is he is trying to do. You know what they say about assumptions
    > > right?
    > >
    > > I too have been involved with computers both with hardware and

    programming
    > > for about 20 years. So I'm not a total newbie but I am a relative newbie
    > > to
    > > java. One thing I have learned is the more you learn about computers

    and
    > > programming, the more you realize you've only scratch the surface in

    this
    > > whole technologically changing world. So all of us need to be wary

    about
    > > trying impress people with how much we know in any area of technology,
    > > it's
    > > a constant learning environment.
    > >

    > You could stand to take some of your own advice with regards to

    assumptions.
    > I was NOT trying to impress anyone; I was simply saying that in 25 years

    in
    > IT, I had never heard of a 'data script'. This may be a common term in

    some
    > areas but it isn't in any of the areas where I have worked. I only

    mentioned
    > 25 years to indicate that I was not an IT newbie that may not have heard

    the
    > term yet. Period.
    >
    >
    > >> > SPECIAL NOTE:
    > >> > Many times college and university professors hand out really dumb and
    > >> > totally useless assignments. Your job as a student is to complete
    > >> > those
    > >> > assignments to the best of your abilities.
    > >>

    > In my opinion, giving out dumb and totally useless assignments is almost a
    > total waste of time for the student who wants to learn something that will
    > be useful in later professional work. That's why I reacted the way I did;

    it
    > just feels wrong to cater to the kind of silliness inherent in the
    > assignment - assuming it WAS an assignment; it sounded like one to me.
    >
    > >> Ye,. *YOUR* abilities, not ours. We do you students a courtesy if we
    > >> point out where their abilities are lacking. E.g. abilities in
    > >> formulating a coherent question.
    > >>

    > > True, my bad, ... I forgot you are so much smarter than the rest of us
    > > newbies, "We do you students a courtesy". Don't tell me, ... let me
    > > guess,
    > > you're some college or university professor with a head-up-your-ass
    > > attitude, probably with a masters or doctorate, and you feel your are so
    > > much superior than all the rest of us right?
    > >
    > >> > Providing comments about how
    > >> > useless and stupid the assignments are doesn't help get the job done!
    > >>
    > >> It is not up to you to dictate what people have to answer. You have no
    > >> right to get an answer at all. You have no right to get the answer you
    > >> want to hear. You have not even a right to get read.
    > >>

    > >
    > >> If one can't stand criticisms one better not posts to a public
    > >> discussion group. If one wants to cheat on an homework assignment one
    > >> better not posts to a public discussion group, too.
    > >>

    > > Fine criticise if you feel the need, but at least provide a viable
    > > solution,
    > > if not then your are just spewing out trash. And as far as the cheating
    > > goes, I agree completely. I've seen too many students that don't

    deserve
    > > to
    > > be in any kind of IT program. They think IT is the way to big $$$$ and
    > > they
    > > don't have a first clue what to do when it comes to writing code, can't
    > > even
    > > perform any kind of premitive debugging without some kind of fancy

    wysiwyg
    > > IDE to help them.
    > >
    > > So there, I've said my negative piece and only about 2 weeks after I

    made
    > > a
    > > comment on this news group about all the negativism you keep seeing on
    > > news
    > > groups these days. I feel ashamed to have to stoop to such a low level,
    > > but
    > > I also feel I have to say my piece too.
    > >

    > Rhino
    > > Oh and remember --> If one can't stand criticisms one better not posts

    to
    > > a
    > > public discussion group.
    > >
    > >> /Thomas
    > >> --
    > >> The comp.lang.java.gui FAQ:
    > >> ftp://ftp.cs.uu.nl/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/computer-lang/java/gui/faq
    > >> http://www.uni-giessen.de/faq/archiv/computer-lang.java.gui.faq/

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Tail_Spin, Mar 8, 2006
    #15
  16. AMT2K5

    Chris Uppal Guest

    Rhino wrote:

    > You should reread that thread. I explained that I was construing that
    > question in a much narrower way than the rest of the group had. Maybe you
    > missed that?


    Fair enough. I didn't take that message from the post where you "recanted".


    > Agreed. I did not state categorically that this term was never used
    > anywhere at any time in the course of human history though; I simply said
    > *I* had never heard it. Have you heard anyone use the term 'data script'?
    > Maybe this is a common term in the UK?


    I haven't heard it myself (I would have said so if I had). But it seems
    perfectly reasonable that it would turn up. "Data" is obvious. "Script" makes
    sense when you consider that one meaning of that word is as a transcript of
    something that has occurred, and especially a transcript that can be replayed.
    And it was that later sense, of a transcript of a data-entry session which had
    been saved to file, and which could be re-entered by "replaying" the file, that
    I find persuasive.

    It does sound like the kind of expression that is more likely to have come from
    fairly old contexts (where a lot of concepts are given different names), but
    since the "old" contexts are still alive and well....


    > By the same token, I've never once seen an input file that was laid out
    > like the original poster describes. Have you? It seems to me that such a
    > file would always be cleaned up at least a little bit along the lines I
    > suggested, even if it wasn't properly normalized.


    Yes, I have. Quite often.

    Note that it is formally identical to CSV or the like. Instead of using the
    line-terminator to delimit records, and comma or tab to delimit fields within a
    record, it uses a line-terminator to delimit fields, and a # (or
    newline-#-newline) to delimit records. Perfectly normal, and in some ways more
    readable than CSV. But the important thing is that it is (with some fudging
    about what a line terminator is exactly) the /same/ as CSV. If one makes sense
    then so does the other.

    It's difficult to tell whether it's a sensible programming exercise because I
    don't know what tools (concepts, classes, packages) the students have already
    covered[*]. But assuming a reasonable coverage of IO and iteration concepts, I
    would say that it's a pretty good example of simple parsing.

    ([*] My impression from the OPs post is that in this case the example has been
    used too soon, before concepts like streams have been introduced.)


    > Aside from the terminology nitpick over 'data script', my concern was
    > basically that the assignment wasn't very representative of what a real
    > life IT person would encounter in a real IT organization. Frankly, I
    > think that makes the assignment almost pointless.


    You sound as if you think that all data processing should be done via
    formalised relational (or at least SQL) databases. I don't know whether you
    /really/ think that, but I certainly don't.

    In any case, this isn't an example of data processing, but of of parsing.

    -- chris
    Chris Uppal, Mar 9, 2006
    #16
  17. Chris Uppal wrote:
    > In any case, this isn't an example of data processing, but of of parsing.
    >

    Quite.

    What's more to the point is that, in a *NIX environment anyway, you
    wouldn't use Java to process that sort of data: its a job for awk or
    Perl (and for Perl in a lot of other environments too).

    I'd expect a programmer to be able to justify not using awk or Perl just
    as I'd expect a properly designed student project to deduct marks for
    not using them without a good explanation.

    OK, I'll stretch a point and allow the use of Coco/R to generate a Java
    program or lex+yacc to do the same for C, *but* I'd still want to hear
    justification.

    --
    martin@ | Martin Gregorie
    gregorie. | Essex, UK
    org |
    Martin Gregorie, Mar 9, 2006
    #17
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