reborn ?

[Osiris]

I will be programming in C again, after being absent for some 5 years
from the C-world.
What are the popular programming environments these days ?
windows has Miicrosofts IDE, I know, and Borland IDE's
What about Linux ?
GNU, of course.
Eclipse ?
not EMACS huh ? please... or VIM....can't be....

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Osiris said:

I will be programming in C again, after being absent for some 5 years
from the C-world.
What are the popular programming environments these days ?

Computers are favourite, although by no means mandatory.

windows has Miicrosofts IDE, I know, and Borland IDE's
What about Linux ?

Linux /is/ an IDE.

GNU, of course.
Eclipse ?
not EMACS huh ? please... or VIM....can't be....

The Linux IDE comes complete with a multitude of tool choices for
specific tasks, and you can mix and match them according to your own
personal taste. Personally, for editing I use vim, even though EMACS
probably carries more kudos among the cognoscenti, for the simple
reason that vim can be used, in a pinch, with only one hand (leaving
the other free to hold a coffee mug), whereas EMACS needs at least
three.

 

[Cawas]

I will be programming in C again, after being absent for some 5 years
from the C-world.
What are the popular programming environments these days ?
windows has Miicrosofts IDE, I know, and Borland IDE's
What about Linux ?
GNU, of course.
Eclipse ?
not EMACS huh ? please... or VIM....can't be....

Well, I think I won't be adding much, but who knows... I usually
program in windows, using either of these:
Crimson Editor
DevCPP
JEdit
Arachnophilia

And as far as I knew, Eclipse was for Java. But don't worry explaining
this to me, as I'll google for it soon enough.

 

[Al Balmer]

I will be programming in C again, after being absent for some 5 years
from the C-world.
What are the popular programming environments these days ?
windows has Miicrosofts IDE, I know, and Borland IDE's
What about Linux ?
GNU, of course.
Eclipse ?
not EMACS huh ? please... or VIM....can't be....

[OT]The GNU (gcc) toolchain is probably the most popular for Linux.
Eclipse was originally for Java, but has C and C++ plugins now. There
are many editors available, both commercial (I use Slickedit) and
free, and many of them can be used as IDEs.

 

[jaysome]

Osiris said:


Computers are favourite, although by no means mandatory.


Linux /is/ an IDE.

Huh?

IDE stands for Integrated Development Environment. Note what the "I"
in IDE stands for.

An IDE implies an editor, a compiler, a linker and a debugger, all
wrapped into a single application. Visual Studio running on Windows
(or under Wine in Linux) satisfies this requirement. What application
in Linux satisfies this requirement (not VIM, but maybe Eclipse, which
is arguably not Linux)?

The Linux IDE comes complete with a multitude of tool choices for
specific tasks, and you can mix and match them according to your own
personal taste. Personally, for editing I use vim, even though EMACS
probably carries more kudos among the cognoscenti, for the simple
reason that vim can be used, in a pinch, with only one hand (leaving
the other free to hold a coffee mug), whereas EMACS needs at least
three.

VIM is an editor, but hardly an IDE. I bet you edit your code in VIM,
compile and link it in a terminal window with gcc, and then run it in
a shell. That's two or three segregated applications, sans addressing
the issue of debugging. Run gdb and you have a true SDE (Segregated
Development Environment) consisting of at least four different
applications, and five or more if you include the shell and any GUI
wrappers that run on top of that.

Are three hands really necessary to use a true IDE on Linux?

FWIW, I can use a true IDE on Windows with one hand, leaving my other
hand free to hold my coffee mug.

 

[Chris Dollin]

Huh?

IDE stands for Integrated Development Environment. Note what the "I"
in IDE stands for.

An IDE implies an editor, a compiler, a linker and a debugger, all
wrapped into a single application.

Yes, that's right. Linux. Editors, compilers, linkers, and debuggers,
all in one handy package.

Here's /my/ definition of an IDE: it should supply refactoring and
unit-testing tools [1]. The rest is mere frippery ...

[1] That make their use routine.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

jaysome said:

Huh?

IDE stands for Integrated Development Environment.

Yes, the term is around 20 years old. I have come across it before.

Note what the "I" in IDE stands for.
Indeed.

An IDE implies an editor, a compiler, a linker and a debugger, all
wrapped into a single application.

Yes. Linux is therefore an IDE. It includes not just one editor but
many, a compiler, a linker, a debugger, and a whole host of filters and
graphic editors and ancillary programs such as email clients,
newsreaders, word processors, spreadsheets, Web servers and so on. All
out of the box and ready to go.

Visual Studio running on Windows
(or under Wine in Linux) satisfies this requirement. What application
in Linux satisfies this requirement

Linux. I already said.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

Huh?

IDE stands for Integrated Development Environment. Note what the "I"
in IDE stands for.

An IDE implies an editor, a compiler, a linker and a debugger, all
wrapped into a single application. Visual Studio running on Windows
(or under Wine in Linux) satisfies this requirement. What application
in Linux satisfies this requirement (not VIM, but maybe Eclipse, which
is arguably not Linux)?

Whoosh!!!

 

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

Yes. Linux is therefore an IDE. It includes not just one editor but
many, a compiler, a linker, a debugger, and a whole host of filters and
graphic editors and ancillary programs such as email clients,
newsreaders, word processors, spreadsheets, Web servers and so on. All
out of the box and ready to go.

I think the point is that these applications are not "integrated" out
of the box. Linux is more of an IDE framework than an IDE itself; it
provides all the components a developer could ever wish for, but the
task of "integrating" them is left to the developer.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Christopher Benson-Manica said:

I think the point is that these applications are not "integrated" out
of the box.

On a single screen, I have an editor window, a debugger window, a
compilation window, a 'run' window, and several 'whatever the heck I
like' windows. I can copy information between any of them quickly and
easily. I can switch between them quickly and easily. And I can call up
additional windows for any purpose at the drop of a key, and they will
seamlessly gain this ability to yield and receive information from
other windows as I direct.

What is it, precisely, about this setup that you think is not
"integrated"?

 

[Tor Rustad]

I will be programming in C again, after being absent for some 5 years
from the C-world.

Welcome back

not EMACS huh ? please...

What is wrong with emacs? I use emacs, these days you can even use the
mouse and have syntax coloring!


I have tried out an IDE like KDevelop, but hesitate to use it. Too many
files are generated, for my taste. When you know how to write your own
makefile, that is really annoying.

BTW, I still use command line gdb...!

 

[osmium]

On a single screen, I have an editor window, a debugger window, a
compilation window, a 'run' window, and several 'whatever the heck I
like' windows. I can copy information between any of them quickly and
easily. I can switch between them quickly and easily. And I can call up
additional windows for any purpose at the drop of a key, and they will
seamlessly gain this ability to yield and receive information from
other windows as I direct.

What is it, precisely, about this setup that you think is not
"integrated"?

Which variant of Linux do you have that you are so in love with? Is it as
good as an Atari ST with Hot Wire! and the Tempest editor? That is, by far,
the best thing I ever saw. I hope I got those names right, it has been a
while. As I recall I could press numeric keypad 1 through 4 in Tempest and
get four differnent text screens displayed as fast as I could press the
keys.

WRT, the question you ask, it seems to me that the integration is going on
in your mind, rather than in a computer program. Not that there is anything
wrong with that.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

osmium said:

Which variant of Linux do you have that you are so in love with?

It happens to be SuSE, but hey, any Linux will do.

WRT, the question you ask, it seems to me that the integration is
going on in your mind, rather than in a computer program.

That's an interesting take on it. But of course Linux does make it
very easy to "think integrated", since everything works on the same
basic premise as everything else.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Indeed. Nevertheless, I'm curious to hear Chris's response.

 

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

On a single screen, I have an editor window, a debugger window, a
compilation window, a 'run' window, and several 'whatever the heck I
like' windows. I can copy information between any of them quickly and
easily. I can switch between them quickly and easily. And I can call up
additional windows for any purpose at the drop of a key, and they will
seamlessly gain this ability to yield and receive information from
other windows as I direct.

What is it, precisely, about this setup that you think is not
"integrated"?

<ot>

I do agree with osmium's assessment Seriously, it seems
reasonable to define an IDE as something more than a loose collection
of components whose relationships and interactions are managed by a
programmer, which is the situation that you've described; to me the
fundamental principle is encapsulation. You can take a golf cart
and bolt on an alternator to run an air conditioner and a portable CD
player, and buy a trailer to haul things with, but it won't be a
pickup truck.

</ot>

 

[Osiris]

I will be programming in C again, after being absent for some 5 years
from the C-world.
What are the popular programming environments these days ?
windows has Miicrosofts IDE, I know, and Borland IDE's
What about Linux ?
GNU, of course.
Eclipse ?
not EMACS huh ? please... or VIM....can't be....

thanks all.
I see it is still difficult to stay away from the, somewhat, religious
wars on tools. Feels like home again... ;-)
I had a good look at emacs back then and found it difficult and
counter intuitive. VIM.... too much to remember, not intuitive either,
I found... archaic.
On windoze I use UEDit, with nice syntacs coloring and I don't need to
use all the frills. Almost like notepad ;-)
Hey, I keep my source files short, I don't need slick navigation
stuff.. I just scroll...

And yeah, I know about makefiles.

I'm looking to arrange for myself a lean and mean development
environment.

 

[Mark McIntyre]

jaysome said:


Yes. Linux is therefore an IDE. It includes not just one editor but
many,

While I appreciate the joke*, its obviously not what most people mean
by an IDE. While I can indeed compile, link and debug code on Linux
its somewhat lacking on the I part of the IDE.

*and if you're not joking, please take the "I'm a zealot and I'll burn
anyone who says otherwise" badge as you leave the church.
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

 

[Mark McIntyre]

On a single screen, I have an editor window, a debugger window, a
compilation window, a 'run' window, and several 'whatever the heck I
like' windows. I can copy information between any of them quickly and
easily. I can switch between them quickly and easily. And I can call up
additional windows for any purpose at the drop of a key, and they will
seamlessly gain this ability to yield and receive information from
other windows as I direct.

What is it, precisely, about this setup that you think is not
"integrated"?

Now you're just being silly.

A typical IDE will provide a means to
- compile code directly from the editor
- step through running code in the editor
- automatically create build scripts
- automatically link in resources you need
- provide a means to edit non-text resources from withing the editor
etc etc, all without having to write special macros or whatever.

But you know all this. You're just being silly.

--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

 

[Richard Tobin]

A typical IDE will provide a means to
- compile code directly from the editor
- step through running code in the editor

Emacs provides these.

-- Richard

 

[Mark McIntyre]

But of course Linux does make it
very easy to "think integrated", since everything works on the same
basic premise as everything else.

I hate zealotry about Operating Systems, so I;ll rise to that.

The above remark is either nonsense (since when did vi operate on the
same basic premise as xvnc, or snort on the same basic premise as
glade ?) or a truism (notepad operates on the same basic premise as
starry night pro, to choose two random windows apps on my desktop),
and hence meaningless.

Don't get me wrong - I spend an inordinate amount of time using Linux
(heck ,it runs my mail, file, print, web, and security services) but
I'm not about to start making ludicrous claims about it. Its an OS,
not a religion.


..
--
Mark McIntyre

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Mark McIntyre said:

While I appreciate the joke*, its obviously not what most people mean
by an IDE. While I can indeed compile, link and debug code on Linux
its somewhat lacking on the I part of the IDE.

Then please explain what /you/ mean by "integrated".

*and if you're not joking, please take the "I'm a zealot and I'll burn
anyone who says otherwise" badge as you leave the church.

I'm not joking, but I'm not interested in burning anyone either. If you
want to discuss IDEs, fine, but please do so without being ridiculous
about it. You just emerged from a 30-day spell in my bozo bin. I don't
particularly want to punt you back in there, but I will if I have to.