Recommend a GUI app for newbie webdesigner

Discussion in 'HTML' started by ©®, Dec 31, 2003.

  1. ©®

    ©® Guest

    I have designed a webpage for my friend and she would like to be able to
    update it herself but normally she does all ger newsletters in Publisher
    or Word.
    I know these programs can export to html but some of the html coding
    isn't much to be desired.
    Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use to do
    her own website/updates?
    Thanks
    PS - Some of the simpler apps are too basic so something with nice
    features but also simple to use.
     
    ©®, Dec 31, 2003
    #1
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  2. ©®

    Bob Adkins Guest

    On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:14:31 -0000, "©®" <> wrote:

    >I have designed a webpage for my friend and she would like to be able to
    >update it herself but normally she does all ger newsletters in Publisher
    >or Word.
    >I know these programs can export to html but some of the html coding
    >isn't much to be desired.
    >Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use to do
    >her own website/updates?
    >Thanks
    >PS - Some of the simpler apps are too basic so something with nice
    >features but also simple to use.
    >


    OpenOffice.org (OOo) http://www.openoffice.org/

    The web designer in it is easy to use and WYSIWYG. I have tried popular
    semi-WYSIWYG editors like Selida, but keep going back to my trusty OOo web
    designer. The learning curve is very low if you are good at word processing.



    Bob
     
    Bob Adkins, Dec 31, 2003
    #2
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  3. ©®

    ft Guest

    On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:14:31 -0000, "©®" <> wrote:


    >Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use to do
    >her own website/updates?
    > Some of the simpler apps are too basic so something with nice
    >features but also simple to use.
    >

    Hmm...simple, but full-featured and free...hmmm..
    Try HTML-Kit (current version I believe is 1.0 build 292).
    You can get it from here:
    http://www.chami.com/html-kit/download/
    or here:
    http://download.com.com/3000-2048-4687625.html?legacy=cnet
    as well as other places.
     
    ft, Dec 31, 2003
    #3
  4. ©® wrote:
    > Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use to do
    > her own website/updates?


    Notepad.
     
    Leif K-Brooks, Dec 31, 2003
    #4
  5. ©®

    ©® Guest

    Leif K-Brooks wrote:
    >> ©® wrote:
    >> Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use

    to
    >> do her own website/updates?


    > Notepad.


    Hmmn...not helpful for her! thanks
     
    ©®, Dec 31, 2003
    #5
  6. ©® wrote:
    >>Notepad.

    >
    > Hmmn...not helpful for her! thanks


    It's GUI, easy to use, plenty of features, free with Windows. What more
    do you want?
     
    Leif K-Brooks, Dec 31, 2003
    #6
  7. ©®

    Steven Burn Guest

    ©® <> wrote in message
    news:3ff31249$0$61054$...
    > Leif K-Brooks wrote:
    > >> ©® wrote:
    > >> Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use

    > to
    > >> do her own website/updates?

    >
    > > Notepad.

    >
    > Hmmn...not helpful for her! thanks
    >


    I'm afraid I agree...... for beginners, Notepad is the best option.

    Okay so it doesn't do eveything for you but, if your a web dev, and don't
    know how to code in HTML, and are not willing to learn how to do so then
    IMHO, you shouldn't have bothered in the first place.

    I personally started with Notepad and now use my own custom built editor,
    and it was the best choice I ever made. I detest, and will always detest,
    the programs that do everything for you as you aren't (IMHO) learing
    anything other than how to do it the "lazy" way.

    --
    Regards

    Steven Burn
    Ur I.T. Mate Group
    www.it-mate.co.uk

    Keeping it FREE!

    Disclaimer:
    I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
     
    Steven Burn, Dec 31, 2003
    #7
  8. ©®

    Bob Adkins Guest


    >I personally started with Notepad and now use my own custom built editor,
    >and it was the best choice I ever made. I detest, and will always detest,
    >the programs that do everything for you as you aren't (IMHO) learing
    >anything other than how to do it the "lazy" way.


    Some people have another life and don't have time to learn HTML. They just
    want to throw up a family-orineted web page. What do you recommend for them?

    Bob
     
    Bob Adkins, Dec 31, 2003
    #8
  9. ©®

    Tiger Guest

    Bob Adkins <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    >>I personally started with Notepad and now use my own custom built
    >>editor, and it was the best choice I ever made. I detest, and will
    >>always detest, the programs that do everything for you as you
    >>aren't (IMHO) learing anything other than how to do it the "lazy"
    >>way.

    >
    > Some people have another life and don't have time to learn HTML.
    > They just want to throw up a family-orineted web page. What do you
    > recommend for them?
    >

    Encouraging their children to learn html. Beyond that, there are
    literally hundreds of downloadable tutorials to which one can refer
    while building a page. It's not C++...it doesn't take a rocket
    scientist or hours and hours of study or practice. If one can find
    the time to post regularly to usenet and surf the web, one can easily
    learn html without neglecting that "other" life. Personally, I would
    discourage anyone from building mediocre web pages.

    --
    Tiger

    "In the devil's theology, the important thing is to be absolutely
    right and prove everyone else is absolutely wrong." - Thomas Merton
     
    Tiger, Dec 31, 2003
    #9
  10. Bob Adkins wrote:
    > Some people have another life and don't have time to learn HTML. They just
    > want to throw up a family-orineted web page. What do you recommend for them?


    Hire someone or learn HTML.
     
    Leif K-Brooks, Dec 31, 2003
    #10
  11. ©®

    Steve R. Guest

    Bob Adkins wrote in message ...
    > Some people have another life and don't have time to learn HTML. They

    just
    > want to throw up a family-orineted web page. What do you recommend for

    them?

    Exactly - See if you can get hold of a copy of Frontpage Express or
    Dreamweaver. Either will do what you want, even if some of the code is a
    little bloated it will still work ok on 99.99% of browsers.

    Steve.
     
    Steve R., Dec 31, 2003
    #11
  12. ©®

    SINNER Guest

    ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.comp.freeware.]
    * Steve R. Wrote in alt.comp.freeware, on 2003-12-31:
    > Bob Adkins wrote in message ...
    >> Some people have another life and don't have time to learn HTML. They

    > just
    >> want to throw up a family-orineted web page. What do you recommend for

    > them?


    > Exactly - See if you can get hold of a copy of Frontpage Express or
    > Dreamweaver. Either will do what you want, even if some of the code is a
    > little bloated it will still work ok on 99.99% of browsers.


    That percentage is WAY off! It might work in 90% of peoples PC's because
    90% use the same browser, but those programs will frequently break
    HTML and hence it will not work in well over 50% of the browsers that
    require compliant HTML code to render correctly.

    --
    David | AGM Favorite Games - http://tinyurl.com/loec
    You may already be a loser.
    -- Form letter received by Rodney Dangerfield.
     
    SINNER, Dec 31, 2003
    #12
  13. Steven Burn wrote:
    > I'm afraid I agree...... for beginners, Notepad is the best option.


    Are you guys just playing the devil's advocate here?

    Listen, most posters to this NG are at least slightly tech-inclined. We
    can look within those curly braces and figure out what's going on.

    I have a writer friend (ok, not WRITER, but teenage writer--you know,
    one of those people who have to put their wannabe poetry on the web). It
    took her THREE YEARS to learn basic HTML, and she's paranoid about
    touching CSS despite my assertions that it makes life much, much easier.

    Some people just can't learn to code, you know. Honestly: they can't put
    the energy it requires for them to think outside their personal forte.
    Telling them to learn HTML or not make sites is terribly elitist. Heck,
    I'm sure you realise that the majority of computer users don't know how
    to optimize their word-processed documents or make them look
    professional, but you won't tell them to not try producing documents
    until they know how to, would you?
     
    JustAnotherGuy, Dec 31, 2003
    #13
  14. ©®

    Steven Burn Guest

    JustAnotherGuy <> wrote in message
    news:bsvdv5$1rn6f$-berlin.de...
    > Steven Burn wrote:
    > > I'm afraid I agree...... for beginners, Notepad is the best option.

    >
    > Are you guys just playing the devil's advocate here?

    </snip>

    No, not at all. I just personally feel Notepad is the best option.

    <snip>
    > Listen, most posters to this NG are at least slightly tech-inclined. We
    > can look within those curly braces and figure out what's going on.

    </snip>

    I completely agree. I've personally come accross several thousand people
    that make even myself look like the proverbial "newbie", and am proud to
    have come accross them, but at the same time am proud to admit that I've
    taken the time to teach myself everything that I do actually know (if that
    makes sense?).

    <snip>
    > I have a writer friend (ok, not WRITER, but teenage writer--you know,
    > one of those people who have to put their wannabe poetry on the web). It
    > took her THREE YEARS to learn basic HTML, and she's paranoid about
    > touching CSS despite my assertions that it makes life much, much easier.
    >
    > Some people just can't learn to code, you know. Honestly: they can't put
    > the energy it requires for them to think outside their personal forte.
    > Telling them to learn HTML or not make sites is terribly elitist. Heck,
    > I'm sure you realise that the majority of computer users don't know how
    > to optimize their word-processed documents or make them look
    > professional, but you won't tell them to not try producing documents
    > until they know how to, would you?
    >

    </snip>

    I think I've been mis-construed here. I didn't mean for people to NOT build
    website's if they didn't want to, or couldn't, learn HTML, CSS or whatever,
    but instead, I meant, if cases such as this, it would be far easier to use a
    template from one of the online hosts than to use a program that will do
    everything for them (atleast using the online templates, they could say "I
    did this" instead of, for example "DreamWeaver did this"......)

    I am always, and will always, be for those that wish to become, or are
    already, web dev's, and shall always help where needed, however, I don't see
    the point in helping those that don't seem willing to help themselves (as an
    example, just a couple of days ago, I got asked if I would insert some code
    into a friends website, so it give a directory listing pragmatically. This
    person couldn't even be bothered to ask "is there any code for......<yada
    yada>" or "can you help me....<yada yada" and instead, wanted someone else
    to do the work for him).

    --
    Regards

    Steven Burn
    Ur I.T. Mate Group
    www.it-mate.co.uk

    Keeping it FREE!

    Disclaimer:
    I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
     
    Steven Burn, Dec 31, 2003
    #14
  15. ©®

    Tiger Guest

    JustAnotherGuy <> wrote in
    news:bsvdv5$1rn6f$-berlin.de:

    > Steven Burn wrote:
    >> I'm afraid I agree...... for beginners, Notepad is the best
    >> option.

    >
    > Are you guys just playing the devil's advocate here?
    >
    > Listen, most posters to this NG are at least slightly
    > tech-inclined. We can look within those curly braces and figure
    > out what's going on.
    >
    > I have a writer friend (ok, not WRITER, but teenage writer--you
    > know, one of those people who have to put their wannabe poetry on
    > the web). It took her THREE YEARS to learn basic HTML, and she's
    > paranoid about touching CSS despite my assertions that it makes
    > life much, much easier.
    >
    > Some people just can't learn to code, you know. Honestly: they
    > can't put the energy it requires for them to think outside their
    > personal forte. Telling them to learn HTML or not make sites is
    > terribly elitist. Heck, I'm sure you realise that the majority of
    > computer users don't know how to optimize their word-processed
    > documents or make them look professional, but you won't tell them
    > to not try producing documents until they know how to, would you?
    >

    Yes. There's nothing "elitist" about asking people to do things
    correctly and well.

    --
    Tiger

    "In the devil's theology, the important thing is to be absolutely
    right and prove everyone else is absolutely wrong." - Thomas Merton
     
    Tiger, Dec 31, 2003
    #15
  16. ©®

    Bob Adkins Guest

    On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:43 GMT, Tiger <> wrote:


    >Encouraging their children to learn html. Beyond that, there are
    >literally hundreds of downloadable tutorials to which one can refer
    >while building a page. It's not C++...it doesn't take a rocket
    >scientist or hours and hours of study or practice. If one can find
    >the time to post regularly to usenet and surf the web, one can easily
    >learn html without neglecting that "other" life. Personally, I would
    >discourage anyone from building mediocre web pages.


    For 1 thing, most older people simply aren't inclined to take on such a
    steep learning curve. I'm not ready to exclude such a large segment of
    people. Many smart people are dyslexic at coding (and spelling for that
    matter), and need a "crutch". I see nothing wrong with that. It's better to
    walk with a crutch that not walk at all.

    I used to code exclusively with a text editor, but get frustrated with
    tables. I'm not a purist. I consider anything that reduces my coding time
    and frustration a useful tool, and I'm not too proud to use it.

    !!!Happy New Year!!!

    Bob
     
    Bob Adkins, Dec 31, 2003
    #16
  17. ©®

    Steven Burn Guest

    Bob Adkins <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 19:37:43 GMT, Tiger <> wrote:
    >

    <snip>
    > For 1 thing, most older people simply aren't inclined to take on such a
    > steep learning curve. I'm not ready to exclude such a large segment of
    > people. Many smart people are dyslexic at coding (and spelling for that
    > matter), and need a "crutch". I see nothing wrong with that. It's better

    to
    > walk with a crutch that not walk at all.
    >
    > I used to code exclusively with a text editor, but get frustrated with
    > tables. I'm not a purist. I consider anything that reduces my coding time
    > and frustration a useful tool, and I'm not too proud to use it.
    >
    > !!!Happy New Year!!!
    >
    > Bob


    Bob,
    I have absolutely nothing against people using such programs, aslong
    as they are willing to take the time required, to also learn what they're
    "codes" actually do, and how to put them together without such programs.
    (i.e. in your case, you've learnt HTML........ which is what I was talking
    about).

    Once you've learnt how to code in HTML, you are then in a better position to
    detect and eradicate incorrect or inaccurate code's that these programs
    quite often generate.

    --
    Regards

    Steven Burn
    Ur I.T. Mate Group
    www.it-mate.co.uk

    Keeping it FREE!

    Disclaimer:
    I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
     
    Steven Burn, Dec 31, 2003
    #17
  18. ©®

    Steven Burn Guest

    ©® <> wrote in message
    news:3ff303f9$0$61059$...
    > I have designed a webpage for my friend and she would like to be able to
    > update it herself but normally she does all ger newsletters in Publisher
    > or Word.
    > I know these programs can export to html but some of the html coding
    > isn't much to be desired.
    > Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use to do
    > her own website/updates?
    > Thanks
    > PS - Some of the simpler apps are too basic so something with nice
    > features but also simple to use.
    >


    See what you've started <vbg>

    --
    Regards

    Steven Burn
    Ur I.T. Mate Group
    www.it-mate.co.uk

    Keeping it FREE!

    Disclaimer:
    I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
     
    Steven Burn, Dec 31, 2003
    #18
  19. Bob Adkins wrote:
    [snip]
    > For 1 thing, most older people simply aren't inclined to take on such
    > a steep learning curve. I'm not ready to exclude such a large segment
    > of people. Many smart people are dyslexic at coding (and spelling for
    > that matter), and need a "crutch". I see nothing wrong with that.
    > It's better to walk with a crutch that not walk at all.
    >
    > I used to code exclusively with a text editor, but get frustrated with
    > tables. I'm not a purist. I consider anything that reduces my coding
    > time and frustration a useful tool, and I'm not too proud to use it.


    Quite!

    Decades ago, I programmed computers in assembler. (And I could bootstrap from
    the keys, and use a handpunch, correcting the cards by re-inserting the
    chads!) I moved up from there to "high level languages" (several of). Then to
    macro systems & declarative systems & logic programming. Now I use
    applications where possible to hide all of that. Let other people worry about
    it! I'll take their tools and use them. I want to work in the "solution
    space", not the "implementation space".

    I currently use DW4 for HTML, but often have to do things by hand. I use
    notepad for CSS. What I really want is that within 5 years my (X)HTML and CSS
    is untouched by my hands, and preferably unseen by my eyes. They are primitive
    code that human beings should not be troubled by - except for the few who
    provide tools for the rest of us.

    There is no merit whatsoever in knowing the character-level coding of tags,
    attributes, rules, properties, values, etc. At the very least there is a level
    of abstraction above that which might know that (say) "paragraph" exists but
    doesn't say what it looks like, or that a text colour may be mid-green without
    bothering what the property & value for that are (and how they are encoded).
    Tools could eliminate the possibility of unnested-tags, syntax errors &
    finger-trouble at the atomic-construct level, etc.

    But WYSIWYG techniques can work at a much higher level than that. The fact
    that they have tended up to now to generate dodgy output doesn't mean that
    they always will. Just as today's compilers are much better that those of a
    generation ago. We need our best brains to develop high quality back-ends for
    those tools.

    What is the real "solution space" that we should be working in?

    --
    Barry Pearson
    http://www.Barry.Pearson.name/photography/
    http://www.BirdsAndAnimals.info/
    http://www.ChildSupportAnalysis.co.uk/
     
    Barry Pearson, Dec 31, 2003
    #19
  20. ©®

    TKO Guest

    ©® wrote:

    > I have designed a webpage for my friend and she would like to be able to
    > update it herself but normally she does all ger newsletters in Publisher
    > or Word.
    > I know these programs can export to html but some of the html coding
    > isn't much to be desired.
    > Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use to do
    > her own website/updates?
    > Thanks
    > PS - Some of the simpler apps are too basic so something with nice
    > features but also simple to use.
    >
    >

    How bout Mozilla 1.5a Composer
     
    TKO, Dec 31, 2003
    #20
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