Recommendations for a Ruby Wiki, preferably with bidi support?

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Alder Green, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. Alder Green

    Alder Green Guest

    We are going to deploy a Wiki system for a medium load website. Any
    recommended Ruby options?

    The Wiki doesn't have to be feature-rich. It can be simple, but should
    be elegant and easily extendable, as the people who are going to use
    it are mostly hackers.

    The only special requirement is that it would have decent bidi support
    (for Hebrew pages). But if you know a good Wiki codebase answering the
    above description, we might extend it to support bidi by ourselves.

    Cheers,
    -Alder
     
    Alder Green, Oct 22, 2006
    #1
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  2. Alder Green

    James Britt Guest

    Alder Green wrote:
    > We are going to deploy a Wiki system for a medium load website. Any
    > recommended Ruby options?
    >
    > The Wiki doesn't have to be feature-rich. It can be simple, but should
    > be elegant and easily extendable, as the people who are going to use
    > it are mostly hackers.
    >
    > The only special requirement is that it would have decent bidi support
    > (for Hebrew pages). But if you know a good Wiki codebase answering the
    > above description, we might extend it to support bidi by ourselves.


    Is there a particular need to have it written in Ruby?

    I was looking about for a robust Wiki some months ago, and would have
    prefered to use a Ruby app for ease of hacking, but the Wiki features
    were more important.

    I ended up with Dokuwiki, a PHP app. It's quite good. I believe it
    supports Hebrew.

    http://wiki.splitbrain.org/wiki:lang:he
    http://hebdokuwiki.berlios.de/dokuwiki-2006-03-09e/doku.php


    You might want to look at

    http://www.lifeclever.com/2006/10/19/want-your-own-wiki/

    which links to

    http://www.wikimatrix.org/

    There's a 'Wiki Choice Wizard' that could be very helpful. (Though they
    seem to think Ruby and Rails are two different languages.)


    --
    James Britt

    "Trying to port the desktop metaphor to the Web is like working
    on how to fuel your car with hay because that is what horses eat."
    - Dare Obasanjo
     
    James Britt, Oct 22, 2006
    #2
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  3. Alder Green

    Alder Green Guest

    On 10/22/06, James Britt
    > Is there a particular need to have it written in Ruby?


    No, it's just my personal preference.

    > I was looking about for a robust Wiki some months ago, and would have
    > prefered to use a Ruby app for ease of hacking, but the Wiki features
    > were more important.
    >
    > I ended up with Dokuwiki, a PHP app. It's quite good. I believe it
    > supports Hebrew.
    >
    > http://wiki.splitbrain.org/wiki:lang:he
    > http://hebdokuwiki.berlios.de/dokuwiki-2006-03-09e/doku.php
    >


    Thanks, I'll check it out.

    > You might want to look at
    >
    > http://www.lifeclever.com/2006/10/19/want-your-own-wiki/
    >
    > which links to
    >
    > http://www.wikimatrix.org/
    >
    > There's a 'Wiki Choice Wizard' that could be very helpful. (Though they
    > seem to think Ruby and Rails are two different languages.)
    >


    Excellent website! You just saved me hours of searching.

    I went through the wizard and apparently a Ruby Wiki called Instiki -
    http://instiki.rubyforge.org/ - is claimed to fit my requirements. Any
    special reason you didn't use it? Is it not robust, or complex, or
    not easily extendable?

    -Alder
     
    Alder Green, Oct 22, 2006
    #3
  4. Alder Green

    eden li Guest

    It doesn't seem to have good spam protection. You can see evidence of
    this on the RoR wiki which is constantly vandalized. It seems like it
    would be pretty easy to throw a captcha on it somehow though. Although
    in your case it sounds like this might not be a problem.

    On Oct 22, 11:04 pm, "Alder Green" <> wrote:
    > I went through the wizard and apparently a Ruby Wiki called Instiki -http://instiki.rubyforge.org/- is claimed to fit my requirements. Any
    > special reason you didn't use it? Is it not robust, or complex, or
    > not easily extendable?
    >
    > -Alder
     
    eden li, Oct 22, 2006
    #4
  5. Alder Green

    Alder Green Guest

    On 10/22/06, eden li <> wrote:
    > It doesn't seem to have good spam protection. You can see evidence of
    > this on the RoR wiki which is constantly vandalized. It seems like it
    > would be pretty easy to throw a captcha on it somehow though. Although
    > in your case it sounds like this might not be a problem.


    Excuse my ignorance, but what sort of effective SPAM protection
    schemes are there for Wikis? And which Wikis have successfully
    employed such schemes?

    It's been a while since I extensively participated in a Wiki, but back
    then, the only effective SPAM protection was requiring all
    contributors to register and login.

    -Alder
     
    Alder Green, Oct 22, 2006
    #5
  6. On 10/23/06, Alder Green <> wrote:
    > On 10/22/06, eden li <> wrote:
    > > It doesn't seem to have good spam protection. You can see evidence of
    > > this on the RoR wiki which is constantly vandalized. It seems like it
    > > would be pretty easy to throw a captcha on it somehow though. Although
    > > in your case it sounds like this might not be a problem.

    >
    > Excuse my ignorance, but what sort of effective SPAM protection
    > schemes are there for Wikis? And which Wikis have successfully
    > employed such schemes?
    >
    > It's been a while since I extensively participated in a Wiki, but back
    > then, the only effective SPAM protection was requiring all
    > contributors to register and login.
    >
    > -Alder
    >
    >


    See here,

    http://wikis.onestepback.org/Ruse/page/show/AntiSpamMeasures

    Unfortunately Ruse isn't yet available as far as I know. I'm looking
    forward to its release.
    --
    Dave Balmain
    http://www.davebalmain.com/
     
    David Balmain, Oct 22, 2006
    #6
  7. Alder Green

    James Britt Guest

    Alder Green wrote:

    >
    > Excellent website! You just saved me hours of searching.
    >
    > I went through the wizard and apparently a Ruby Wiki called Instiki -
    > http://instiki.rubyforge.org/ - is claimed to fit my requirements. Any
    > special reason you didn't use it? Is it not robust, or complex, or
    > not easily extendable?


    I don't recall exactly, but my main requirements were plain text data
    storage and some sort of ACL or robust spam filtering option. (And I
    had tried Instiki once before and it just didn't float my boat. Maybe
    it's changed. But see note below.)

    Basically, the feature set of Dokuwiki was too compelling.

    Also, see

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instiki

    "As of October 12, 2006, Instiki does not appear to be under active
    development anymore, and its own website has not been functional for
    some time."

    The rubyforge page looks out of date, and instiki.org wouldn't come up
    for me.
    --
    James Britt

    http://www.rubyaz.org - Hacking in the Desert
    http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - The Journal By & For Rubyists
    http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
    http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
     
    James Britt, Oct 22, 2006
    #7
  8. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instiki
    >
    > "As of October 12, 2006, Instiki does not appear to be under active
    > development anymore, and its own website has not been functional for
    > some time."
    >
    > The rubyforge page looks out of date, and instiki.org wouldn't come up
    > for me.
    > --
    > James Britt


    I recently selected Pimki as a personal wiki. I wanted a Ruby-based
    wiki that supported textile. I also wanted to use it store my personal
    notes and todo-lists. Pimki is a version of Instiki that also supports
    the "todo:" tag much as it is supported by Eclipse for Ruby code. (The
    todo items are extracted from all the pages and served a special todo
    page.)

    I also spoke with Alexey Verkhovsky, the maintainer of Instiki. His
    public email account was overloaded with spam, and the instiki website
    was taken down, i presume, because it was overloaded with wiki spam.
    But he is still working on it. If you look at svn.instiki.org, you will
    several commits in September.

    I'm using version "2.0" of Pimki. Namely this:
    pimki.rubyforge.org/pimki-2.0.zip. These is also a branch of Pimki
    called 2.0 zombie, but i think it is different (not sure). I have
    reported some minor problems with it and received prompt replies from
    Assaph Mehr, the maintainer of Pimki.

    Both projects seem to be struggling with the backend technology.
    Instiki used Madeliene. One of the great things about this was that it
    made instiki a two step install on Windows and often a one-step install
    on Mac and Linux (when ruby was already installed).

    Apparently, Madeleine has stability problems and both projects have,
    separately been moving to use different, more SQL based backend
    technology. But this signficantly complicates the install.

    Anyhow, i'm using a version of Pimki that still uses Madeleine and i am
    happy with it. I try to install the newer versions of both tools, but
    found the complications involved not worth the trouble.

    I'd love to see some more community organize around one of these tools,
    help resolve the issues with persistence, and make the wiki technology
    easier to extend without forking. Since this is a Rails-based wiki, i
    would think that there would be a lot of interest and knowledge that
    could be brought to bear.

    Bret

    Lead Developer, Watir
     
    Bret Pettichord, Oct 22, 2006
    #8
  9. On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Alder Green wrote:

    > I went through the wizard and apparently a Ruby Wiki called Instiki -
    > http://instiki.rubyforge.org/ - is claimed to fit my requirements. Any
    > special reason you didn't use it? Is it not robust, or complex, or
    > not easily extendable?


    I tried to install Instiki last summer. It is no longer simple to
    install, it now requires a back end database server.

    -- Matt
    It's not what I know that counts.
    It's what I can remember in time to use.
     
    Matt Lawrence, Oct 22, 2006
    #9
  10. Bret Pettichord wrote:
    > Both projects seem to be struggling with the backend technology.
    > Instiki used Madeliene. One of the great things about this was that it
    > made instiki a two step install on Windows and often a one-step install
    > on Mac and Linux (when ruby was already installed).
    >
    > Apparently, Madeleine has stability problems and both projects have,
    > separately been moving to use different, more SQL based backend
    > technology. But this signficantly complicates the install.
    >
    > Anyhow, i'm using a version of Pimki that still uses Madeleine and i am
    > happy with it. I try to install the newer versions of both tools, but
    > found the complications involved not worth the trouble.
    >
    > I'd love to see some more community organize around one of these tools,
    > help resolve the issues with persistence, and make the wiki technology
    > easier to extend without forking. Since this is a Rails-based wiki, i
    > would think that there would be a lot of interest and knowledge that
    > could be brought to bear.


    If I were developing a wiki, I'd try using something like my FSDB[1] lib
    (or maybe KirbyBase[2], which I don't know well), which uses the file
    system for persistence, and is pure ruby. Then you can use whatever
    revision control system you want on those files (the file granularity is
    small and controllable), and the same goes for backups, journaling,
    indexing, etc. And at the end of the proverbial day what you've got on
    disk is a file hierarchy of wiki entries (plus heterogeneously formatted
    files, if you want) which can survive the toolset you used to access them.

    The limitations[3] of Madeleine always scared me off.

    [1] http://raa.ruby-lang.org/project/fsdb
    [2] http://raa.ruby-lang.org/project/kirbybase
    [3] http://madeleine.rubyforge.org/docs/designRules.html

    A minor irony: the synopsis for fsdb uses the string "A la recherche du
    temps perdu" in an example. This was never intended as a reference to
    Madeleine, I promise ;)

    --
    vjoel : Joel VanderWerf : path berkeley edu : 510 665 3407
     
    Joel VanderWerf, Oct 22, 2006
    #10
  11. Alder Green

    James Britt Guest

    Joel VanderWerf wrote:

    >
    > If I were developing a wiki, I'd try using something like my FSDB[1] lib
    > (or maybe KirbyBase[2], which I don't know well), which uses the file
    > system for persistence, and is pure ruby.


    I recently built a app the lead me to create a lightweight MVC Web
    framework using Og+Kirbybase.

    Very nice combination, and Kirbybase makes it easy to
    manipulate/recover/inspect the data using ssh and vi, if need be.

    But fsdb looks really good; I have to try that next.


    --
    James Britt

    "In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly
    universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by
    uncertainty cannot be the truth."
    - R. Feynman
     
    James Britt, Oct 22, 2006
    #11
  12. Alder Green

    Alder Green Guest

    Thanks everyone for the information.

    My conclusion is that currently there is no compelling Ruby Wiki solution.

    Instiki has too few active developers (only one, apparently?). Pimki
    is similarly afflicted.

    Though I greatly prefer Ruby as a technology, I can't commit to a
    system that has such a tiny developer - and accordingly also user -
    communities.

    It's a shame that there is no attractive Ruby Wiki. I guess the reason
    is that PHP already had several mature, advanced Wikis (as well as
    CMSes, BBs..), with large communities of active developers, when Ruby
    started to become popular.

    My next step is to investigate non-Ruby Wikis, with Dokuwiki being the
    first, as it was recommended by James and seems to fit my (rather
    humble :) requirements.

    -Alder
     
    Alder Green, Oct 23, 2006
    #12
  13. Alder Green

    Guest

    Hello Alder,

    did you tried Pandora?

    http://pandora.rubyveil.com/pandora/Pandora/Introduction/Pandora

    Cheers,
    Larysa


    Alder Green wrote:
    > We are going to deploy a Wiki system for a medium load website. Any
    > recommended Ruby options?
    >
    > The Wiki doesn't have to be feature-rich. It can be simple, but should
    > be elegant and easily extendable, as the people who are going to use
    > it are mostly hackers.
    >
    > The only special requirement is that it would have decent bidi support
    > (for Hebrew pages). But if you know a good Wiki codebase answering the
    > above description, we might extend it to support bidi by ourselves.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > -Alder
     
    , Oct 23, 2006
    #13
  14. Alder Green

    zoat Guest

    .......and what about Hiki wiki:
    http://hikiwiki.org/en/

    Alder Green wrote:
    > Thanks everyone for the information.
    >
    > My conclusion is that currently there is no compelling Ruby Wiki solution.
    >
    > Instiki has too few active developers (only one, apparently?). Pimki
    > is similarly afflicted.
    >
    > Though I greatly prefer Ruby as a technology, I can't commit to a
    > system that has such a tiny developer - and accordingly also user -
    > communities.
    >
    > It's a shame that there is no attractive Ruby Wiki. I guess the reason
    > is that PHP already had several mature, advanced Wikis (as well as
    > CMSes, BBs..), with large communities of active developers, when Ruby
    > started to become popular.
    >
    > My next step is to investigate non-Ruby Wikis, with Dokuwiki being the
    > first, as it was recommended by James and seems to fit my (rather
    > humble :) requirements.
    >
    > -Alder
     
    zoat, Oct 24, 2006
    #14
  15. On Tue, 24 Oct 2006, Alder Green wrote:

    > It's a shame that there is no attractive Ruby Wiki. I guess the reason
    > is that PHP already had several mature, advanced Wikis (as well as
    > CMSes, BBs..), with large communities of active developers, when Ruby
    > started to become popular.


    I have used Soks with great success. Very easy to install and run, but
    not tremendously featureful. I highly recommend it for cases where it
    does enough.

    > My next step is to investigate non-Ruby Wikis, with Dokuwiki being the
    > first, as it was recommended by James and seems to fit my (rather
    > humble :) requirements.


    Please let me know what you find out, I need to set up a wiki at work.

    -- Matt
    It's not what I know that counts.
    It's what I can remember in time to use.
     
    Matt Lawrence, Oct 24, 2006
    #15
  16. Alder Green

    Bil Kleb Guest

    Matt Lawrence wrote:
    >
    > I have used Soks with great success. Very easy to install and run, but
    > not tremendously featureful. I highly recommend it for cases where it
    > does enough.


    FWIW, internally we run a center-wide Soks wiki. We haven't
    really found features lacking, except an fancy UI like writely
    or writeboard. (People get confused when they hit 'edit'
    and are greeted by Textile.)

    Later,
    --
    Bil Kleb
    http://fun3d.larc.nasa.gov
     
    Bil Kleb, Oct 25, 2006
    #16
  17. On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Bil Kleb wrote:

    > Matt Lawrence wrote:
    >>
    >> I have used Soks with great success. Very easy to install and run, but not
    >> tremendously featureful. I highly recommend it for cases where it does
    >> enough.

    >
    > FWIW, internally we run a center-wide Soks wiki. We haven't
    > really found features lacking, except an fancy UI like writely
    > or writeboard. (People get confused when they hit 'edit'
    > and are greeted by Textile.)


    Any suggestion on the best way to add some type of login and
    authentication?

    -- matt
    It's not what I know that counts.
    It's what I can remember in time to use.
     
    Matt Lawrence, Oct 25, 2006
    #17
  18. On 10/23/06, Alder Green <> wrote:
    > Thanks everyone for the information.
    >
    > My conclusion is that currently there is no compelling Ruby Wiki solution.
    >
    > Instiki has too few active developers (only one, apparently?). Pimki
    > is similarly afflicted.
    >
    > Though I greatly prefer Ruby as a technology, I can't commit to a
    > system that has such a tiny developer - and accordingly also user -
    > communities.
    >
    > It's a shame that there is no attractive Ruby Wiki. I guess the reason
    > is that PHP already had several mature, advanced Wikis (as well as
    > CMSes, BBs..), with large communities of active developers, when Ruby
    > started to become popular.
    >
    > My next step is to investigate non-Ruby Wikis, with Dokuwiki being the
    > first, as it was recommended by James and seems to fit my (rather
    > humble :) requirements.


    You might have a look at mediawiki. It's quite full-functioned (it's
    what runs wikipedia). For PHP code it's also quite well structured.

    The one thing which some find lacking in mediawiki is a sophisticated
    permissions system. But folks looking for that should probably be
    looking at a CMS rather than a wiki. You can set up mediawiki to
    require registration before editing, and there are a few roles for
    administration vs. contributors.

    --
    Rick DeNatale

    My blog on Ruby
    http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
     
    Rick DeNatale, Oct 25, 2006
    #18
  19. Rick DeNatale wrote:
    > On 10/23/06, Alder Green <> wrote:
    >> Thanks everyone for the information.
    >>
    >> My conclusion is that currently there is no compelling Ruby Wiki
    >> solution.
    >>
    >> Instiki has too few active developers (only one, apparently?). Pimki
    >> is similarly afflicted.
    >>
    >> Though I greatly prefer Ruby as a technology, I can't commit to a
    >> system that has such a tiny developer - and accordingly also user -
    >> communities.
    >>
    >> It's a shame that there is no attractive Ruby Wiki. I guess the reason
    >> is that PHP already had several mature, advanced Wikis (as well as
    >> CMSes, BBs..), with large communities of active developers, when Ruby
    >> started to become popular.
    >>
    >> My next step is to investigate non-Ruby Wikis, with Dokuwiki being the
    >> first, as it was recommended by James and seems to fit my (rather
    >> humble :) requirements.

    >
    > You might have a look at mediawiki. It's quite full-functioned (it's
    > what runs wikipedia). For PHP code it's also quite well structured.
    >
    > The one thing which some find lacking in mediawiki is a sophisticated
    > permissions system. But folks looking for that should probably be
    > looking at a CMS rather than a wiki. You can set up mediawiki to
    > require registration before editing, and there are a few roles for
    > administration vs. contributors.
    >

    Hieraki?
     
    M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, Oct 25, 2006
    #19
  20. Alder Green

    Alder Green Guest

    On 10/25/06, Rick DeNatale <> wrote:
    > You might have a look at mediawiki. It's quite full-functioned (it's
    > what runs wikipedia).


    Indeed, and apparently also the Hebrew version of Wikipedia
    (he.wikipedia.org), so its Hebrew support is excellent.

    > For PHP code it's also quite well structured.


    Good to know. Most of the people who might be willing to hack on the
    Wiki code have some PHP experience. I'd much prefer Ruby, but
    well-structured PHP takes out some of the sting ;-)

    > The one thing which some find lacking in mediawiki is a sophisticated
    > permissions system. But folks looking for that should probably be
    > looking at a CMS rather than a wiki. You can set up mediawiki to
    > require registration before editing, and there are a few roles for
    > administration vs. contributors.


    Can you recommend any Wiki that has a more advanced permission system
    (yet not necessarily as capable as a CMS's)?

    > --
    > Rick DeNatale
    >
    > My blog on Ruby
    > http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
    >
    >
     
    Alder Green, Oct 25, 2006
    #20
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