Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming using Java

Discussion in 'Java' started by Henry Cate, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Henry Cate

    Henry Cate Guest

    I have a young teenage daughter who is interested
    in programming. She has been messing around with something
    on Kahn Academy's web site which uses Javascript. A friend
    of mine has a teenage son who is also interested in learning
    how to program. I would like to get them started with Java,
    but Google has 9.5 million hits for: "Introduction to
    programming in Java"

    Does anyone have recommendations for an online
    forum which teaches the basics of programming, using Java?

    I have read some of the current thread about what
    is teaching Java. Here is what I would like:

    Good introduction to real programming
    Teaches the basics - make no assumptions on what the student already knows
    Simple exercises to make sure they understand the concepts
    Online video would be nice
    Free would be nice


    If you have a strong recommendation for a good book,
    I would also appreciate that. (Amazon lists almost 800 books
    for the same pattern.


    Thanks.



    --
    ---------- Henry Cate
    "Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what
    little chance you have in trying to change others." -- Jacob M. Braude
    Our blog: http://whyhomeschool.blogspot.com/
    Henry Cate, Dec 16, 2013
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Henry Cate

    markspace Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/16/2013 2:11 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    >
    > Does anyone have recommendations for an online
    > forum which teaches the basics of programming, using Java?
    >
    > If you have a strong recommendation for a good book,
    > I would also appreciate that. (Amazon lists almost 800 books
    > for the same pattern.



    I literally do not. Java's a big subject, and all of my own study has
    been aimed at professional programming. It's been decades since I
    looked at anything for teens.

    So I went on Amazon and I looked at some of the titles that came up.
    This caught my eye.

    <http://www.amazon.com/Do---Yourself-Java-Games-Introduction-ebook/dp/B00H8T3AEY/ref=sr_1_15?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1387232314&sr=1-15&keywords=introduction+to+java+programming>
    markspace, Dec 16, 2013
    #2
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  3. Henry Cate

    Jeff Higgins Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/16/2013 05:11 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    > I have a young teenage daughter who is interested
    > in programming. She has been messing around with something
    > on Kahn Academy's web site which uses Javascript. A friend
    > of mine has a teenage son who is also interested in learning
    > how to program. I would like to get them started with Java,
    > but Google has 9.5 million hits for: "Introduction to
    > programming in Java"
    >
    > Does anyone have recommendations for an online
    > forum which teaches the basics of programming, using Java?
    >
    > I have read some of the current thread about what
    > is teaching Java. Here is what I would like:
    >
    > Good introduction to real programming
    > Teaches the basics - make no assumptions on what the student already knows
    > Simple exercises to make sure they understand the concepts
    > Online video would be nice
    > Free would be nice
    >
    >
    > If you have a strong recommendation for a good book,
    > I would also appreciate that. (Amazon lists almost 800 books
    > for the same pattern.
    >
    >


    Excellent Java book. Not an introduction to programming.
    <http://www.horstmann.com/corejava.html>
    Why Java? Have the children expressed an interest in Java?
    <http://www.csta.acm.org/Curriculum/sub/CurrResources.html>
    Jeff Higgins, Dec 16, 2013
    #3
  4. Henry Cate

    Stefan Ram Guest

    markspace <> writes:
    >On 12/16/2013 2:11 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    >> If you have a strong recommendation for a good book,
    >>I would also appreciate that. (Amazon lists almost 800 books
    >>for the same pattern.

    >I literally do not. Java's a big subject, and all of my own study has
    >been aimed at professional programming. It's been decades since I
    >looked at anything for teens.


    There is a single outstanding Java book everybody
    recommends. It's »Effective Java« by Joshua Bloch. But this
    book is not for beginner's, and I do not know which book one
    can recommend to a beginner.

    Of course, I am aware that »Head First Java« and »Thinking
    in Java« are recommended often, but I am not that impressed
    by both of them. (I found too many defects in »Thinking in
    Java«, and too many distractions in »Head First Java«.)

    I can immediately name several outstanding high-quality
    books for C++98: »Accelerated C++«, »Effective C++«,
    »Exceptional C++«, »Modern C++ Design«, and »The C++
    programming language«. (There also is no book for absolute
    C++ beginners amongst them.)

    But for Java, I only can think of this single book:
    »Effective Java«, as being high-quality beyond doubt
    for the topic of general Java programming.

    So, do you all know any other general Java book that play
    in the same league as »Effective Java«?

    (My students sometimes ask for a Java book I can recommend,
    but Bloch's book would still be too advanced for them, even
    though there is a German translation available.)
    Stefan Ram, Dec 16, 2013
    #4
  5. Henry Cate

    Joerg Meier Guest

    On 16 Dec 2013 22:51:36 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

    > Of course, I am aware that »Head First Java« and »Thinking
    > in Java« are recommended often, but I am not that impressed
    > by both of them. (I found too many defects in »Thinking in
    > Java«, and too many distractions in »Head First Java«.)


    I certainly have not heard TIJ being considered a good choice for a very
    long time now. I think you aren't the only one to come to that conclusion.

    Liebe Gruesse,
    Joerg

    --
    Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
    ungelesen.
    Joerg Meier, Dec 16, 2013
    #5
  6. Henry Cate

    Henry Cate Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    In article <l8nuol$td7$>,
    Jeff Higgins <> wrote:
    >On 12/16/2013 05:11 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    >> I have a young teenage daughter who is interested
    >> in programming. She has been messing around with something
    >> on Kahn Academy's web site which uses Javascript. A friend
    >> of mine has a teenage son who is also interested in learning
    >> how to program. I would like to get them started with Java,
    >> but Google has 9.5 million hits for: "Introduction to
    >> programming in Java"
    >>
    >> Does anyone have recommendations for an online
    >> forum which teaches the basics of programming, using Java?
    >>
    >> I have read some of the current thread about what
    >> is teaching Java. Here is what I would like:
    >>
    >> Good introduction to real programming
    >> Teaches the basics - make no assumptions on what the student already knows
    >> Simple exercises to make sure they understand the concepts
    >> Online video would be nice
    >> Free would be nice
    >>
    >>
    >> If you have a strong recommendation for a good book,
    >> I would also appreciate that. (Amazon lists almost 800 books
    >> for the same pattern.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Excellent Java book. Not an introduction to programming.
    ><http://www.horstmann.com/corejava.html>


    I agree. Core Java is an excellent book. I've bought
    two editions. Well worth the money.

    >Why Java? Have the children expressed an interest in Java?
    ><http://www.csta.acm.org/Curriculum/sub/CurrResources.html>


    Both children have expressed an interest in programming.
    At least in my daughters case I think part of it steams from
    wondering what her father does. I am tending towards Java
    because it is my strongest language and I like Java.

    Another reason I'm tending towards Java is I think it is
    a good language. I think the first language a person learns can
    influence how they think about all programming languages. My
    father jokes that he can program Fortran in ten different languages.
    If my daughter does become a programmer I'd like her to have solid
    programming practices down which I think are easier to learn in
    Java, than some other languages.



    --
    ---------- Henry Cate
    "Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what
    little chance you have in trying to change others." -- Jacob M. Braude
    Our blog: http://whyhomeschool.blogspot.com/
    Henry Cate, Dec 17, 2013
    #6
  7. Henry Cate

    Henry Cate Guest

    In article <-berlin.de>,
    Stefan Ram <-berlin.de> wrote:
    >markspace <> writes:
    >>On 12/16/2013 2:11 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    >>> If you have a strong recommendation for a good book,
    >>>I would also appreciate that. (Amazon lists almost 800 books
    >>>for the same pattern.

    >>I literally do not. Java's a big subject, and all of my own study has
    >>been aimed at professional programming. It's been decades since I
    >>looked at anything for teens.

    >
    > There is a single outstanding Java book everybody
    > recommends. It's »Effective Java« by Joshua Bloch. But this
    > book is not for beginner's, and I do not know which book one
    > can recommend to a beginner.


    Thanks for the suggestion. It does seem too advance for
    my daughter, but I've been thinking it would be good to go through
    a book again as a refresher course, so I'll check it out.



    --
    ---------- Henry Cate
    "Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what
    little chance you have in trying to change others." -- Jacob M. Braude
    Our blog: http://whyhomeschool.blogspot.com/
    Henry Cate, Dec 17, 2013
    #7
  8. Henry Cate

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/16/2013 5:11 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    > I have a young teenage daughter who is interested
    > in programming. She has been messing around with something
    > on Kahn Academy's web site which uses Javascript. A friend
    > of mine has a teenage son who is also interested in learning
    > how to program. I would like to get them started with Java,
    > but Google has 9.5 million hits for: "Introduction to
    > programming in Java"
    >
    > Does anyone have recommendations for an online
    > forum which teaches the basics of programming, using Java?
    >
    > I have read some of the current thread about what
    > is teaching Java. Here is what I would like:
    >
    > Good introduction to real programming
    > Teaches the basics - make no assumptions on what the student already knows
    > Simple exercises to make sure they understand the concepts
    > Online video would be nice
    > Free would be nice
    >
    > If you have a strong recommendation for a good book,
    > I would also appreciate that. (Amazon lists almost 800 books
    > for the same pattern.


    I will recommend a book over a web tutorial.

    For a book I would go for an author that is good at writing
    beginner programming books over a Java guru.

    The Ivor Horton and Herbert Schildt types.

    If you insist in a web tutorial, then you should probably
    go for the official Java tutorial.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Dec 17, 2013
    #8
  9. Henry Cate

    Jeff Higgins Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/16/2013 07:01 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    > In article <l8nuol$td7$>,
    > Jeff Higgins <> wrote:
    >> On 12/16/2013 05:11 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    >>> I have a young teenage daughter who is interested
    >>> in programming. She has been messing around with something
    >>> on Kahn Academy's web site which uses Javascript. A friend
    >>> of mine has a teenage son who is also interested in learning
    >>> how to program. I would like to get them started with Java,
    >>> but Google has 9.5 million hits for: "Introduction to
    >>> programming in Java"
    >>>
    >>> Does anyone have recommendations for an online
    >>> forum which teaches the basics of programming, using Java?
    >>>
    >>> I have read some of the current thread about what
    >>> is teaching Java. Here is what I would like:
    >>>
    >>> Good introduction to real programming
    >>> Teaches the basics - make no assumptions on what the student already knows
    >>> Simple exercises to make sure they understand the concepts
    >>> Online video would be nice
    >>> Free would be nice
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> If you have a strong recommendation for a good book,
    >>> I would also appreciate that. (Amazon lists almost 800 books
    >>> for the same pattern.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Excellent Java book. Not an introduction to programming.
    >> <http://www.horstmann.com/corejava.html>

    >
    > I agree. Core Java is an excellent book. I've bought
    > two editions. Well worth the money.
    >
    >> Why Java? Have the children expressed an interest in Java?
    >> <http://www.csta.acm.org/Curriculum/sub/CurrResources.html>

    >
    > Both children have expressed an interest in programming.
    > At least in my daughters case I think part of it steams from
    > wondering what her father does. I am tending towards Java
    > because it is my strongest language and I like Java.
    >
    > Another reason I'm tending towards Java is I think it is
    > a good language. I think the first language a person learns can
    > influence how they think about all programming languages. My
    > father jokes that he can program Fortran in ten different languages.
    > If my daughter does become a programmer I'd like her to have solid
    > programming practices down which I think are easier to learn in
    > Java, than some other languages.
    >


    Excellent!

    In my case, Core Java, a shaky old computer, JDK, and a great
    interest sufficed. Close, caring guidance would have been a
    great benefit.

    Sorry I couldn't help with your request for online resources.
    Jeff Higgins, Dec 17, 2013
    #9
  10. Henry Cate

    Jeff Higgins Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/16/2013 10:42 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
    > Sorry I couldn't help with your request for online resources.


    Second thought. Probably not what you're looking for and somewhat
    dated, but Dick Baldwin's tutorials have been a big help for me.
    Jeff Higgins, Dec 17, 2013
    #10
  11. Henry Cate

    Henry Cate Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    In article <l8okfj$ia1$>,
    Jeff Higgins <> wrote:
    >On 12/16/2013 10:42 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
    >> Sorry I couldn't help with your request for online resources.

    >
    >Second thought. Probably not what you're looking for and somewhat
    >dated, but Dick Baldwin's tutorials have been a big help for me.


    Thanks. I am guessing you are refering to the lessons
    from this page:

    http://www.dickbaldwin.com/tocint.htm

    I skimmed the first one and it doesn't seem basic enough
    for what I want, but it does look like a good resource for once
    these teenagers get going.





    --
    ---------- Henry Cate
    "Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what
    little chance you have in trying to change others." -- Jacob M. Braude
    Our blog: http://whyhomeschool.blogspot.com/
    Henry Cate, Dec 17, 2013
    #11
  12. Henry Cate

    Henry Cate Guest

    In article <>,
    Charles Hottel <> wrote:
    >
    >"Henry Cate" <> wrote in message
    >news:l8ntqs$rf3$...
    >> I have a young teenage daughter who is interested
    >> in programming. She has been messing around with something
    >> on Kahn Academy's web site which uses Javascript. A friend
    >> of mine has a teenage son who is also interested in learning
    >> how to program. I would like to get them started with Java,
    >> but Google has 9.5 million hits for: "Introduction to
    >> programming in Java"
    >>
    >> Does anyone have recommendations for an online
    >> forum which teaches the basics of programming, using Java?
    >>
    >> I have read some of the current thread about what
    >> is teaching Java. Here is what I would like:
    >>
    >> Good introduction to real programming
    >> Teaches the basics - make no assumptions on what the student already knows
    >> Simple exercises to make sure they understand the concepts
    >> Online video would be nice
    >> Free would be nice
    >>
    >>
    >> If you have a strong recommendation for a good book,
    >> I would also appreciate that. (Amazon lists almost 800 books
    >> for the same pattern.
    >>
    >>

    ><snip>
    >
    >I like the books published by Mike Murach:
    >
    >http://www.murach.com/books/java.htm


    Thanks. I'll check them out.

    This kind of seems to be what I want:

    http://thenewboston.org/list.php?cat=31

    I'll check them out this weekend to see if the quality
    is pretty good and how engaging the videos are.



    --
    ---------- Henry Cate
    "Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what
    little chance you have in trying to change others." -- Jacob M. Braude
    Our blog: http://whyhomeschool.blogspot.com/
    Henry Cate, Dec 17, 2013
    #12
  13. Henry Cate

    Jeff Higgins Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/17/2013 02:40 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    >
    > This kind of seems to be what I want:
    >
    > http://thenewboston.org/list.php?cat=31
    >
    > I'll check them out this weekend to see if the quality
    > is pretty good and how engaging the videos are.
    >


    Very interesting site. Thanks for the link.
    Just did my own comparison - the Hello World video from the
    above with the Hello World video from Cat Horstmann's
    _Java For Everyone: Late Objects, 2nd Edition_.
    I am not a teenager. Bucky uses Eclipse, Cay BlueJ.
    Jeff Higgins, Dec 17, 2013
    #13
  14. Henry Cate

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/17/2013 2:40 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Charles Hottel <> wrote:
    >> I like the books published by Mike Murach:
    >>
    >> http://www.murach.com/books/java.htm

    >
    > Thanks. I'll check them out.
    >
    > This kind of seems to be what I want:
    >
    > http://thenewboston.org/list.php?cat=31
    >
    > I'll check them out this weekend to see if the quality
    > is pretty good and how engaging the videos are.


    Videos has been hot for several years now.

    But I must admit to be so old fashioned to prefer books.

    Sure it is more difficult to read books than to watch videos. But
    if reading books is a problem, then programming will be a big problem.

    And nothing provides the same amount of information as a good book.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Dec 17, 2013
    #14
  15. Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/17/2013 5:33 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
    > On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 14:37:50 -0500, Henry Cate wrote:
    >> I skimmed the first one and it doesn't seem basic enough
    >> for what I want, but it does look like a good resource for once these
    >> teenagers get going.
    >>

    > In a way its a pity you're going for Java, much as I like it personally.
    > I had the same problem getting started. I was already an experienced
    > programmer at that point (lots of assembler, COBOL and C plus projects
    > written using PL/1, TAL and RPG 3 [shudder]), but a 5 day Sun Java course
    > didn't help me at all. I eventually got a copy of Ivor Horton's
    > "Beginning Java". I'm certain its not to best book in the world, but it
    > did get me set on the right path and had the advantage of assuming I'd
    > learn using a command line, my favourite text editor and the JDK. Later I
    > picked up ant and the use of an IDE. It also has a decent collection of
    > fairly well thought-out examples and exercises.


    C is a relative simple language. Java is more complex and when starting
    to introduce part of the standard Java API, then it is huge.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Dec 17, 2013
    #15
  16. Henry Cate

    Henry Cate Guest

    Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    In article <l8qjfa$8do$>,
    Martin Gregorie <> wrote:
    >On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 14:37:50 -0500, Henry Cate wrote:
    >
    >> I skimmed the first one and it doesn't seem basic enough
    >> for what I want, but it does look like a good resource for once these
    >> teenagers get going.
    >>

    >In a way its a pity you're going for Java, much as I like it personally.
    >I had the same problem getting started. I was already an experienced
    >programmer at that point (lots of assembler, COBOL and C plus projects
    >written using PL/1, TAL and RPG 3 [shudder]), but a 5 day Sun Java course
    >didn't help me at all. I eventually got a copy of Ivor Horton's
    >"Beginning Java". I'm certain its not to best book in the world, but it
    >did get me set on the right path and had the advantage of assuming I'd
    >learn using a command line, my favourite text editor and the JDK. Later I
    >picked up ant and the use of an IDE. It also has a decent collection of
    >fairly well thought-out examples and exercises.
    >
    >Why a pity? Because I thought one of the best computer language teaching
    >books I have used was "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan & Richie.
    >They write very well and provide both excellent example code and useful
    >chapter-end examples. I do think that a beginner could learn to write
    >decent C using only this book and would, at the end of it, find they had
    >a useful conceptual grounding that could be easily extended to make sense
    >of almost any other block-structured language.
    >
    >Add a copy of "The Practise of Programming" by Kernighan & Pike, which
    >BTW, can be usefully read to improve your programming in almost any
    >modern language and you have a solid basis for any programmer's reference
    >library. This book takes over where the language teaching texts leave off
    >and contains sound advice in writing code that is well structured with a
    >sensible naming convention, while also being easy to debug and easy to
    >read and maintain.


    Thanks for the suggestions. I don't think I've read
    "The Practise of Programming." I'll have to check it out.

    Along these lines if "Code Complete" by Steve McConnell.
    I think he does a great job of explaing the craft of programming.
    He has posted the book online if you want to check it out:

    http://www.cc2e.com/Page.aspx?nid=71

    >Top those off with a copy of Sedgewick's "Algorithms" and you have the
    >basis of a programming reference library that will serve you well for a
    >very long time.
    >
    >
    >--
    >martin@ | Martin Gregorie
    >gregorie. | Essex, UK
    >org |



    --
    ---------- Henry Cate
    "Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what
    little chance you have in trying to change others." -- Jacob M. Braude
    Our blog: http://whyhomeschool.blogspot.com/
    Henry Cate, Dec 17, 2013
    #16
  17. Henry Cate

    Ali Sh Guest

    Beginning Java 7
    Jeff Friesen
    Ali Sh, Dec 18, 2013
    #17
  18. Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/17/2013 3:30 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
    > On 12/17/2013 02:40 PM, Henry Cate wrote:
    >>
    >> This kind of seems to be what I want:
    >>
    >> http://thenewboston.org/list.php?cat=31
    >>
    >> I'll check them out this weekend to see if the quality
    >> is pretty good and how engaging the videos are.
    >>

    >
    > Very interesting site. Thanks for the link.
    > Just did my own comparison - the Hello World video from the
    > above with the Hello World video from Cat Horstmann's
    > _Java For Everyone: Late Objects, 2nd Edition_.
    > I am not a teenager. Bucky uses Eclipse, Cay BlueJ.
    >


    I looked at a couple of the early videos. A sincere effort but along
    with learning Java, you'll learn a lot of bad habits, especially in
    naming things. E.g., his first example is a hello world program in a
    class called "apples," thereby managing to make three mistakes in one
    short name.
    Chris Riesbeck, Dec 18, 2013
    #18
  19. Henry Cate

    Stefan Ram Guest

    Chris Riesbeck <> writes:
    >I looked at a couple of the early videos. A sincere effort but along
    >with learning Java, you'll learn a lot of bad habits, especially in
    >naming things. E.g., his first example is a hello world program in a
    >class called "apples," thereby managing to make three mistakes in one
    >short name.


    1st) the name is not related to the meaning of the class
    (most severe)
    2nd) it does not start with an upper-case letter
    3rd) it contains a comma

    The quality assessments of beginners and experts often
    differ. A beginner senses whether the learning process
    triggered by reading a book makes him feel good, and will
    not always recognize it when he learns something that is
    wrong. When the book tells the beginner: »You can name a
    class any way you like as long as the name sounds really
    cool, for example, try funny fruit names.«, a young beginner
    might actually like this stance. Possibly, he will continue
    to read this book, while he would have stopped reading a
    more boring book even though it is more correct in technical
    terms. So, the funny book with the mistakes might actually
    make him learn more (some of which is wrong).

    There is a German Java programming book, whose name I
    forgot, that uses class and variable names like »Jacob« and
    «Sophia«. While experts criticise this, some readers
    (beginners) say that it helps them to understand that these
    are names the programmer can assign as he likes it,
    setting them clearly apart from keywords like »return«,
    marking them as /names/.
    Stefan Ram, Dec 18, 2013
    #19
  20. Re: Recommendations for an online Introduction to programming usingJava

    On 12/18/2013 1:32 PM, Stefan Ram wrote:
    > Chris Riesbeck <> writes:
    >> I looked at a couple of the early videos. A sincere effort but along
    >> with learning Java, you'll learn a lot of bad habits, especially in
    >> naming things. E.g., his first example is a hello world program in a
    >> class called "apples," thereby managing to make three mistakes in one
    >> short name.

    >
    > 1st) the name is not related to the meaning of the class
    > (most severe)
    > 2nd) it does not start with an upper-case letter
    > 3rd) it contains a comma


    The comma was punctuation for the sentence (as mandated by the grammar
    police). The third mistake was using a plural for something not a
    collection. But perhaps that was unfair since it wasn't even an apple
    either.
    Chris Riesbeck, Dec 19, 2013
    #20
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