removing Ruby success stories page from Ruby-lang.org

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Rahul, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. Rahul

    Rahul Guest

    The list of ruby success stories page in ruby-lang.org is really lame.

    compared to python success stories link this looks very weak.

    i think this should be removed till the list looks a bit more impressive
    Rahul, Jan 5, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Rahul

    Guest

    Hi --

    On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Rahul wrote:

    >
    > The list of ruby success stories page in ruby-lang.org is really lame.
    >
    > compared to python success stories link this looks very weak.
    >
    > i think this should be removed till the list looks a bit more impressive


    It's supposed to be informative, not impressive. Perhaps people can
    report their success stories and the page can be updated.


    David

    --
    Q. What is THE Ruby book for Rails developers?
    A. RUBY FOR RAILS by David A. Black (http://www.manning.com/black)
    (See what readers are saying! http://www.rubypal.com/r4rrevs.pdf)
    Q. Where can I get Ruby/Rails on-site training, consulting, coaching?
    A. Ruby Power and Light, LLC (http://www.rubypal.com)
    , Jan 5, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On 1/5/07, Rahul <> wrote:
    >
    > The list of ruby success stories page in ruby-lang.org is really lame.
    >
    > compared to python success stories link this looks very weak.
    >
    > i think this should be removed till the list looks a bit more impressive


    What would make it more impressive? I think this is a very subjective
    topic, and I think comparisons between other languages are an
    insufficient metric for determining whether the resource is helpful or
    not.
    Gregory Brown, Jan 5, 2007
    #3
  4. Notable stories that should be added that I'm aware of:
    - Amazon's UnSpun
    - Ara Howard at the NOAA uses Ruby a lot

    I don't think we need to dilute the page the way Python has done;
    there are a lot of companies and people in there I've never heard of,
    so their story means very little to me unless it's a tale of harrowing
    programming adventure (which most of them aren't).

    I think the page we have now is significant, but maybe needs to look
    less like a list and more like a narrative outlining some of the
    success stories. When I pop open both the Python and Ruby success
    stories pages, all I see are links. I've looked at the Ruby one
    before, but glossed over it because there was nothing compelling about
    it. Maybe the content should stay but be presented in a more
    interesting way?

    --Jeremy

    On 1/5/07, <> wrote:
    > Hi --
    >
    > On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Rahul wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > The list of ruby success stories page in ruby-lang.org is really lame.
    > >
    > > compared to python success stories link this looks very weak.
    > >
    > > i think this should be removed till the list looks a bit more impressive

    >
    > It's supposed to be informative, not impressive. Perhaps people can
    > report their success stories and the page can be updated.
    >
    >
    > David
    >
    > --
    > Q. What is THE Ruby book for Rails developers?
    > A. RUBY FOR RAILS by David A. Black (http://www.manning.com/black)
    > (See what readers are saying! http://www.rubypal.com/r4rrevs.pdf)
    > Q. Where can I get Ruby/Rails on-site training, consulting, coaching?
    > A. Ruby Power and Light, LLC (http://www.rubypal.com)
    >
    >



    --
    My free Ruby e-book:
    http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/book/

    My blogs:
    http://www.mrneighborly.com/
    http://www.rubyinpractice.com/
    Jeremy McAnally, Jan 5, 2007
    #4
  5. On Jan 5, 2007, at 3:10 PM, Jeremy McAnally wrote:

    > Notable stories that should be added that I'm aware of:
    > - Amazon's UnSpun
    > - Ara Howard at the NOAA uses Ruby a lot


    Interview those people, write up little blurbs for them, and I will
    add them.

    James Edward Gray II
    James Edward Gray II, Jan 5, 2007
    #5
  6. Rahul

    Tom Pollard Guest

    On Jan 5, 2007, at 4:10 PM, Jeremy McAnally wrote:

    > Notable stories that should be added that I'm aware of:
    > - Amazon's UnSpun
    > - Ara Howard at the NOAA uses Ruby a lot


    Google Sketchup is scriptable via Ruby, though I don't know if it's a
    Ruby app per se. It's certainly the highest-profile app based on
    Ruby that I've encountered.

    Tom
    Tom Pollard, Jan 5, 2007
    #6
  7. Rahul

    James Britt Guest

    Jeremy McAnally wrote:
    ...
    > I think the page we have now is significant, but maybe needs to look
    > less like a list and more like a narrative outlining some of the
    > success stories. When I pop open both the Python and Ruby success
    > stories pages, all I see are links. I've looked at the Ruby one
    > before, but glossed over it because there was nothing compelling about
    > it. Maybe the content should stay but be presented in a more
    > interesting way?
    >


    What is the purpose of having these at all?


    --
    James Britt

    "Judge a man by his questions, rather than his answers."
    - Voltaire
    James Britt, Jan 5, 2007
    #7
  8. Re: Where would I look to understand why ... works

    > The method works. I am using PickAxe as my reference.
    > I don't recall see any thing stating you could assign values in an array
    > to variables by separating the variables by commas on the leftside of
    > the
    > assignment statement. I just want to know which book or reference
    > should I use to
    > understand why assignments can be made in this way?
    > Or am I just seeing a side effect of my poor coding skills?


    I guess you are seeing the effect of not reading the book carefully enough.
    PickAxe, 2nd edition (paper version):

    Page 91 'Assignment'
    Page 92 'Parallel Assignment'
    Page 338 'More on Assignment'
    Page 340 'Parallel Assignment'


    --
    Regards,
    Rimantas
    --
    http://rimantas.com/
    Rimantas Liubertas, Jan 5, 2007
    #8
  9. Rahul

    Jan Svitok Guest

    Re: Where would I look to understand why ... works

    On 1/5/07, Jacob, Raymond A Jr <> wrote:
    >
    > I create a small method
    >
    > def counting(p1,p2)
    > p1 = p1 + 1
    > p2 = p2 + 2
    > return p1,p2
    > end


    A bit offtopic: you can shorten this to:

    def counting(p1,p2)
    p1 += 1 # x += y is the same as x = x + y
    p2 += 2
    return p1,p2
    end

    or

    or even

    def counting(p1,p2)
    return p1 + 1, p2 + 2
    end

    > sum-by-1s=0
    > sum-by-2s=0
    > while line = gets
    > # need driver test the method
    > line=line.chop
    > sum-by-1s, sum-by-2s = counting(sum-by-1s,sum-by-2s)
    > end


    I don't think sum-by-1s is a good variable name. You can't use - in a
    name. It's reserved for minus. Names are made of A..Z, a..z, 0..9, @
    and _.

    > The method works. I am using PickAxe as my reference.
    > I don't recall see any thing stating you could assign values in an array
    > to variables by separating the variables by commas on the leftside of
    > the
    > assignment statement. I just want to know which book or reference
    > should I use to
    > understand why assignments can be made in this way?
    > Or am I just seeing a side effect of my poor coding skills?


    This is normal. See the link below. It's used in block parameters as well

    i.e.: you can do [[1,2],[3,4]].each {|a| ... } or [[1,2],[3,4]].each
    {|a,b| ... }
    in the former case you'll get [1,2] and [3,4] for a, in the latter
    a=1,3 and b=2,4.

    http://ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/html/tut_expressions.html#UC
    Jan Svitok, Jan 5, 2007
    #9
  10. On 1/5/07, Bryan Weatherly <> wrote:
    > On 1/5/07, James Britt <> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > What is the purpose of having these at all?
    > >
    > >

    > I think the primary purpose is to sell the language to a complete layman.


    A valid question is whether that is worthwhile or not. Of course,
    it's a good thing to point a layman to if said layman is a potential
    employer and you want to work with Ruby.

    That having been said, creating your own mini-success story is much
    more effective.

    So I'm not really sure how I feel on the matter.
    Gregory Brown, Jan 5, 2007
    #10
  11. I'll see if Ara and his friend are interested in an interview, but I
    don't know anyone on the UnSpun team. I would be interested in
    interviewing them if I can get some contact information. I'll also
    contact the team from Steve Case's startup...

    I think these sorts of things are what sell to people in management
    honestly. For example, I've been working on selling Ruby/Rails to my
    superiors here on campus. They're very security and stability
    conscience, so mentioning anything other than PHP for the website and
    Java for application software is pretty much out of the question. The
    first question out of their mouth was "Who else is using it? We're
    not going to use it unless it's been proven." Point blank.

    Now, if I were a ruby newbie who just learned the language and wanted
    to use it, then I would've been stuck. Fortunately, I'm fairly in
    touch with where Ruby is being used and could provide some example
    that yes, real people use Ruby. It's not just a Japanese guy and a
    few startups that dont' have a real product. Ruby has proven/is
    proving itself in a lot of places. Having this page gives people who
    aren't that plugged into what's going on that same sort of
    information. I think it's pretty important; I'm just not sure that a
    fat list of links is the best way to present it.

    Even further, some developers might be curious about Ruby, but be
    discouraged if theres no evidence of it actually being used. I hear
    this a lot from people who are interested in learning laguages like
    Haskell, but don't see any practical value in it since they're not
    going to use it outside of a hobby.

    --Jeremy

    P.S. - My superiors bought it and Ruby powers a lot of things around
    here. Now...I just need to get hold of the website... ;)

    On 1/5/07, James Britt <> wrote:
    > Jeremy McAnally wrote:
    > ...
    > > I think the page we have now is significant, but maybe needs to look
    > > less like a list and more like a narrative outlining some of the
    > > success stories. When I pop open both the Python and Ruby success
    > > stories pages, all I see are links. I've looked at the Ruby one
    > > before, but glossed over it because there was nothing compelling about
    > > it. Maybe the content should stay but be presented in a more
    > > interesting way?
    > >

    >
    > What is the purpose of having these at all?
    >
    >
    > --
    > James Britt
    >
    > "Judge a man by his questions, rather than his answers."
    > - Voltaire
    >
    >



    --
    My free Ruby e-book:
    http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/book/

    My blogs:
    http://www.mrneighborly.com/
    http://www.rubyinpractice.com/
    Jeremy McAnally, Jan 6, 2007
    #11
  12. On Jan 5, 2007, at 6:17 PM, Jeremy McAnally wrote:

    > I think these sorts of things are what sell to people in management
    > honestly. For example, I've been working on selling Ruby/Rails to my
    > superiors here on campus.


    Awesome, then you are the perfect guy to help us improve this section
    of the site.

    > I think it's pretty important; I'm just not sure that a
    > fat list of links is the best way to present it.


    I'm sure we would be open to new ideas. Mock something up and show
    us. If you find something we can all get behind, I will put it up.

    James Edward Gray II
    James Edward Gray II, Jan 6, 2007
    #12
  13. Giles Bowkett, Jan 6, 2007
    #13
  14. Jeremy McAnally wrote:
    > I think these sorts of things are what sell to people in management
    > honestly. For example, I've been working on selling Ruby/Rails to my
    > superiors here on campus. They're very security and stability
    > conscience, so mentioning anything other than PHP for the website and
    > Java for application software is pretty much out of the question. The
    > first question out of their mouth was "Who else is using it? We're
    > not going to use it unless it's been proven." Point blank.


    I whole-heartedly agree. Success stories like one I heard on
    http://podcast.rubyonrails.org/programs/1/episodes/josh_shairbaum_and_dan_manges
    about Ruby being used in JPMorgan Chase are just the thing we need more
    of. That and solid, impartial code reviews based on benchmarks and
    security audits. Anyone up for hosting a break-into-my-rails-server
    contest?

    There is another rather large company that won an innovation award
    recently and Ruby was a key part of it. I have been looking all over
    for that again. I was hoping to find it on the Ruby success stories
    page but to no avail.

    To what degree does blogger.com use Ruby? Our many of our blogs
    actually powered there by rails on the backend? I've read the following
    quote a dozen times wondering that:

    "After researching the market, Ruby on Rails stood out as the
    best choice. We have been very happy with that decision. We
    will continue building on Rails and consider it a key business
    advantage."
    -Evan Williams, Creator of Blogger and ODEO

    Having a success stories page is something of a two-bladed sword,
    however. If it isn't kept current or lacks content having the page can
    leave one with a "that's it" feeling. Many of the very large successes
    within the enterprise, I fear, will never be outed simple because of
    the competitive and legal encumberances most enterprise Ruby users have
    to face. I'm betting there are a lot of international success stories
    also that are not being noticed.

    Perl provides an interesting comparison here. It didn't and doesn't
    need a success stories page because it has always held so much together
    that is hard to quantify. Unfortunately, like Ruby, I bet some large
    companies would even be ashamed to admit they are using either of these
    dynamic languages the way they are. It's like everyone's dirty little
    secret. Somehow they are still falsely viewed as toy languages or
    something to glue together *real* applications. Ruby and Perl users
    seem to be fighting those same stigmas. Python, however, seems to have
    somehow overcome that in my experience, although I haven't a clue how.

    It amazes me that people see PHP as a *stable* language, anyone who
    does has never watched the 1.4 stuff put memory through the roof. Same
    goes for Java, whose now long corrected crappy JVM burned me real bad
    in 97 with faulty hand-off of threads when run from a servlet engine.
    In those cases the marketing train seems to run right over any
    concerns. Companies are more than happy to boast about Java because of
    the *perception* of stability and maturity it enjoys, which after some
    10+ years of corporate adoption and tweeking it may finally deserve
    despite how horrible the language itself can be. [Can you believe there
    are still no closures? And generics? What's the deal, trying to be a
    pseudo-dynamic language? Although I must disclose I only know generics
    from reading and hearing about them.]

    One thing I think all the communities will agree on though, Ruby is
    here to stay in a big way.

    Could it be the one true language bringing balance and restoring peace
    to the smalltalkers, lispers, pylons, perl mongers and java drones?
    Nah. But you can't ignore the download numbers, usage statistics,
    newsgroup postings, and anecdotal water-cooler research. Ruby is
    infecting intelligent minds everywhere. ;-)
    Rob Muhlestein, Jan 6, 2007
    #14
  15. Rahul

    James Britt Guest

    Jeremy McAnally wrote:

    >
    > I think these sorts of things are what sell to people in management
    > honestly. For example, I've been working on selling Ruby/Rails to my
    > superiors here on campus. They're very security and stability
    > conscience, so mentioning anything other than PHP for the website and
    > Java for application software is pretty much out of the question. The
    > first question out of their mouth was "Who else is using it? We're
    > not going to use it unless it's been proven." Point blank.


    They don't trust their technical people to make assessments of
    development tools? PHP + security concerns = severe cognitive dissonance.

    >
    > Now, if I were a ruby newbie who just learned the language and wanted
    > to use it, then I would've been stuck.


    But in such a case you probably *shouldn't* using Ruby for production
    development.


    > Fortunately, I'm fairly in
    > touch with where Ruby is being used and could provide some example
    > that yes, real people use Ruby. It's not just a Japanese guy and a
    > few startups that dont' have a real product. Ruby has proven/is
    > proving itself in a lot of places. Having this page gives people who
    > aren't that plugged into what's going on that same sort of
    > information. I think it's pretty important; I'm just not sure that a
    > fat list of links is the best way to present it.
    >
    > Even further, some developers might be curious about Ruby, but be
    > discouraged if theres no evidence of it actually being used. I hear
    > this a lot from people who are interested in learning laguages like
    > Haskell, but don't see any practical value in it since they're not
    > going to use it outside of a hobby.



    People interested in the craft of software development will learn
    languages for the sake of learning new concepts. I'd much rather see a
    slower growth of the Ruby community than try to draw people in who will
    only pursue Ruby if they think it offers gainful employment or some
    "non-hobby" use.

    Trying to "sell" a language by tossing out showpiece success stories or
    prospects of corporate employment is of limited value. People so
    persuaded by this are just as likely to jump to the next New Hot Thing
    in a year or so.

    Why be concerned over Ruby's popularity? Or, at least, why be concerned
    with making Ruby popular among people who don't have the wherewithal or
    motivation to properly assess it? Will it cultivate a strong, lasting
    Ruby community?

    Someone choosing Ruby for production development had better be sure of
    the value and risks, which are not apparent from one-page success
    stories. I'd prefer someone not use Ruby at all rather than use Ruby
    with mistaken expectations, fail, then blame the language.


    --
    James Britt

    "I often work by avoidance."
    - Brian Eno
    James Britt, Jan 6, 2007
    #15
  16. Rahul

    Carlos Guest

    Re: Where would I look to understand why ... works

    [Jan Svitok <>, 2007-01-05 23.12 CET]
    [...]
    > I don't think sum-by-1s is a good variable name. You can't use - in a
    > name. It's reserved for minus. Names are made of A..Z, a..z, 0..9, @
    > and _.


    ...unless you set $KCODE. Then ¿almost? everything above \177 is allowed.

    $ ruby -Ku -e 'sumâ€byâ€1s, sum by 2s = 1,2; p sumâ€byâ€1s, sum by 2s'
    1
    2

    --
    Carlos, Jan 6, 2007
    #16
  17. James Britt wrote:
    > People interested in the craft of software development will learn
    > languages for the sake of learning new concepts. I'd much rather see
    > a slower growth of the Ruby community than try to draw people in who
    > will only pursue Ruby if they think it offers gainful employment or
    > some "non-hobby" use.
    >
    > Trying to "sell" a language by tossing out showpiece success stories
    > or prospects of corporate employment is of limited value. People so
    > persuaded by this are just as likely to jump to the next New Hot Thing
    > in a year or so.
    >
    > Why be concerned over Ruby's popularity? Or, at least, why be
    > concerned with making Ruby popular among people who don't have the
    > wherewithal or motivation to properly assess it? Will it cultivate a
    > strong, lasting Ruby community?
    >
    > Someone choosing Ruby for production development had better be sure of
    > the value and risks, which are not apparent from one-page success
    > stories. I'd prefer someone not use Ruby at all rather than use Ruby
    > with mistaken expectations, fail, then blame the language.

    Well put, James! I would like to add something, though. There seems to
    be a fair amount of interest on this list, as could be expected, in
    "selling Ruby". I spent ten years of my career in technology sales and
    marketing, and if you haven't been there, it's really easy to assume
    that what works for Ginsu knives or real estate or insurance also works
    for something like enterprise infrastructure components, like web
    frameworks, scripting languages, performance monitoring packages, or
    servers.

    I've already posted two excellent resources about sales in another
    thread, but I think I'll repeat them here. Of all the thousands of books
    about sales, these two authors are the closest I've found to "what
    really works and why it works" for selling technology into the enterprise.

    Sharon Drew Morgen: http://www.newsalesparadigm.com
    Jeff Thull: http://www.primeresource.com/

    --
    M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, FBG, AB, PTA, PGS, MS, MNLP, NST, ACMC(P)
    http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/

    If God had meant for carrots to be eaten cooked, He would have given rabbits fire.
    M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, Jan 6, 2007
    #17
  18. Is there something wrong with people succeeding with Ruby, even in
    the smallest way? It may seem so, but not all of us are in an epic
    battle with the Python community. Just because NASA uses some Python
    code, doesn't mean we are less superior in our own ways either. In
    fact, "NASA uses Python!" seems more like a marketing thing, not a
    motivation factor that inspires people with fun and successful
    programming.


    On Jan 6, 2007, at 5:40 AM, Rahul wrote:

    >
    > The list of ruby success stories page in ruby-lang.org is really
    > lame.
    >
    > compared to python success stories link this looks very weak.
    >
    > i think this should be removed till the list looks a bit more
    > impressive
    >
    >
    Matthew Harris, Jan 6, 2007
    #18
  19. On 1/6/07, James Britt <> wrote:
    >
    > They don't trust their technical people to make assessments of
    > development tools? PHP + security concerns = severe cognitive dissonance.
    >


    You've obviously never worked in some of the places I've had to... =/

    I don't think I've ever been in a place where management left me be
    because they thought I knew what was better. Regardless of their
    breadth of knowledge, they were willing to pay for what they knew, not
    what I thought was best.


    >
    > But in such a case you probably *shouldn't* using Ruby for production
    > development.
    >
    >


    Then how do we get better? How do we gain applicable, real-world
    programming skills if we never step out and say, "I'm going to use
    this for something meaningful"?

    > [snipped a lot of good stuff]
    >
    > Why be concerned over Ruby's popularity? Or, at least, why be concerned
    > with making Ruby popular among people who don't have the wherewithal or
    > motivation to properly assess it? Will it cultivate a strong, lasting
    > Ruby community?
    >


    Mostly because people interested in the craft need to pay bills. I'm
    interested in the craft of software development, but I'm also
    interested in being able to eat. I would rather spend my time
    learning a langauge that is possibly useful to me in a work
    environment AND enriching...they are not mututally exclusive concepts.

    > Someone choosing Ruby for production development had better be sure of
    > the value and risks, which are not apparent from one-page success
    > stories. I'd prefer someone not use Ruby at all rather than use Ruby
    > with mistaken expectations, fail, then blame the language.
    >


    Of course, but they need to know of the benefits. Some people simply
    respond better to a narrative of someone else's success rather than
    dry technical explanations (ie., my boss's couldnt care if Ruby has
    metaprogramming and increases productivity; they want to know if
    someone has been able to increase productivity first).

    It's a sad environment to work in, I know, but it's not totally
    uncommon for those of us who are not lucky enough to work in good jobs
    or have the proper education to garner said occupation.

    --Jeremy

    --
    My free Ruby e-book:
    http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/book/

    My blogs:
    http://www.mrneighborly.com/
    http://www.rubyinpractice.com/
    Jeremy McAnally, Jan 6, 2007
    #19
  20. Rahul

    James Britt Guest

    Jeremy McAnally wrote:
    > On 1/6/07, James Britt <> wrote:


    >>
    >> But in such a case you probably *shouldn't* using Ruby for production
    >> development.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Then how do we get better? How do we gain applicable, real-world
    > programming skills if we never step out and say, "I'm going to use
    > this for something meaningful"?


    See rubyforge.org

    When I started with Ruby in 2001 or so, I was coding Java, and some
    Perl. There's no way I would have tried to get Ruby into a prime-time
    slot without more experience. I was working at a company were tech
    leads were paid lip service, and J2EE rules the day (partly due, I
    think, to superficial "success stories" claiming vast gains).

    So I started using Ruby for whatever I could think of that would be fun
    and interesting, on my own time.

    I left that job by the end of the year. I realize not everyone has that
    option, but I knew that the company was not one of the things I had the
    power to change, and life's too short to sit a cube and be bored.


    >
    >> [snipped a lot of good stuff]
    >>
    >> Why be concerned over Ruby's popularity? Or, at least, why be concerned
    >> with making Ruby popular among people who don't have the wherewithal or
    >> motivation to properly assess it? Will it cultivate a strong, lasting
    >> Ruby community?
    >>

    >
    > Mostly because people interested in the craft need to pay bills. I'm
    > interested in the craft of software development, but I'm also
    > interested in being able to eat. I would rather spend my time
    > learning a langauge that is possibly useful to me in a work
    > environment AND enriching...they are not mututally exclusive concepts.
    >


    Of course; I'm in the same boat But I'm skeptical that it is the role
    of ruby-lang.org to help people get work.

    A year or two ago, Curt Hibbs started a "Why Ruby?" project on
    rubyforge.org. It was largely a collection of presentations meant to
    explain essential features of Ruby to developers and/or managers.

    That collection was eventually moved over to ruby-doc.org. It's pretty
    much remained unchanged since then. If Ruby advocacy is a useful
    pursuit, it may be better served by its own site run by people with the
    time and motivation to look after it.


    --

    James Britt

    "Take eloquence and wring its neck."
    - Paul Verlaine
    James Britt, Jan 6, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. DC

    ASP.NET success stories?

    DC, Dec 2, 2004, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    918
    Jeff Evans
    Dec 4, 2004
  2. Stephan Deibel
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    372
    Stephan Deibel
    Jan 18, 2004
  3. Stephan Deibel

    Python Success Stories, volume II

    Stephan Deibel, Apr 30, 2004, in forum: Python
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    285
    Stephan Deibel
    Apr 30, 2004
  4. Stephan Deibel

    O'Reilly Python Success Stories, volume II

    Stephan Deibel, May 3, 2004, in forum: Python
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    285
    Stephan Deibel
    May 3, 2004
  5. Stephan Deibel

    Python Success Stories Update

    Stephan Deibel, Aug 18, 2004, in forum: Python
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    285
    Stephan Deibel
    Aug 18, 2004
Loading...

Share This Page