removing space between tables

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Sharon Lee, Jan 10, 2004.

  1. Sharon Lee

    Sharon Lee Guest

    I have been unable to remove a space between tables

    You can see it here:

    http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm

    the space between the ad and the next row.

    They are separate tables now but they were the same table different
    rows but same problem.

    I have tried 'padding-bottom: 0;' and 'margin-bottom: 0' styled on
    the row and the cell when they were part of one table but no change.

    If I load the code in front page there is no space.

    I actually code in php so it is not a front page issue, you can see
    the same php version here:

    http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.php

    I have removed all the style now so I can step through any
    suggestions.

    This is one of two problems I have with html formatting contrary to
    instructions, but the solution to this might solve the other one.

    Thanks for your suggestions.
     
    Sharon Lee, Jan 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. Sharon Lee

    brucie Guest

    in post <news:>
    Sharon Lee said:

    > I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    > http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm


    i cant see a reason to use tables on that page and the markup is invalid
    anyway. you cant just throw any shit together and expect it to do what
    you want.

    </table><table...>

    --
    brucie
    10/January/2004 11:36:47 am kilo
     
    brucie, Jan 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. Sharon Lee

    Richard Guest

    Sharon Lee wrote:

    > I have been unable to remove a space between tables


    > You can see it here:


    > http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm


    > the space between the ad and the next row.


    > They are separate tables now but they were the same table different
    > rows but same problem.


    > I have tried 'padding-bottom: 0;' and 'margin-bottom: 0' styled on
    > the row and the cell when they were part of one table but no change.


    > If I load the code in front page there is no space.


    > I actually code in php so it is not a front page issue, you can see
    > the same php version here:


    > http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.php


    > I have removed all the style now so I can step through any
    > suggestions.


    > This is one of two problems I have with html formatting contrary to
    > instructions, but the solution to this might solve the other one.


    > Thanks for your suggestions.



    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"
    bgcolor="#DDDDDD">
    <tr>
    <td width="25%" </td>

    <td width="75%" align="center" valign="bottom">
    <img border="0" src="banner.gif">
    </td>
    </tr>
    </table>


    One possibility is the fact you forgot a closing >.
    Then try aslo <img src = ""></td> all one line.


    But if you learned to use a simple division, you'd have less coding to work
    with.

    div.leftheader { width:25%; background:#DDDDDD; float:left; }
    div.rightheader {width:75%; background:#DDDDDD; }


    <body>
    <div class="leftheader">content here</div>
    <div class="rightheader"><img src=""></div>
    </body>

    Between "page name" could be a simple graphic or even <hr>.
     
    Richard, Jan 10, 2004
    #3
  4. Sharon Lee

    Sharon Lee Guest

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:42:06 +1000, brucie
    <> wrote:

    >in post <news:>
    >Sharon Lee said:
    >
    >> I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    >> http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm

    >
    >i cant see a reason to use tables on that page and the markup is invalid
    >anyway. you cant just throw any shit together and expect it to do what
    >you want.


    There is no need to use that sort of language.

    You are not talking to your mother or your wife.

    >
    ></table><table...>
    >


    from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html

    ******************************************************************************
    Here's a simple table that illustrates some of the features of the
    HTML table model. The following table definition:

    <TABLE border="1"
    summary="This table gives some statistics about fruit
    flies: average height and weight, and percentage
    with red eyes (for both males and females).">
    <CAPTION><EM>A test table with merged cells</EM></CAPTION>
    <TR><TH rowspan="2"><TH colspan="2">Average
    <TH rowspan="2">Red<BR>eyes
    <TR><TH>height<TH>weight
    <TR><TH>Males<TD>1.9<TD>0.003<TD>40%
    <TR><TH>Females<TD>1.7<TD>0.002<TD>43%
    </TABLE>
    **************************************************************************
    looks like </table> closes the table to me .. and opening another
    table would be <table>

    .... and this is really a great help:

    >i cant see a reason to use tables on that page


    what would you use ? colored pencils?

    >--
    >brucie
    >10/January/2004 11:36:47 am kilo
     
    Sharon Lee, Jan 10, 2004
    #4
  5. Sharon Lee

    brucie Guest

    in post <news:>
    Sharon Lee said:

    >>i cant see a reason to use tables on that page and the markup is invalid
    >>anyway. you cant just throw any shit together and expect it to do what
    >>you want.


    > There is no need to use that sort of language.


    heres some more: poo, bum and weewee.

    > looks like </table> closes the table to me .. and opening another
    > table would be <table>


    gee you're clever

    <quote>
    I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    </quote>

    lets pretend that your markup is valid and the space between the tables
    still exists. using </table><table...> may solve the problem as the line
    break has been removed.

    </table> being the closing tag of the first table and <table> being the
    opening tag of the second.

    is that simple enough for you?

    >>i cant see a reason to use tables on that page


    > what would you use ?


    a pointy stick

    > colored pencils?


    shinny little pebbles

    anyone know when skool goes back?

    --
    brucie
     
    brucie, Jan 10, 2004
    #5
  6. Sharon Lee

    Richard Guest

    brucie wrote:

    > in post <news:>
    > Sharon Lee said:


    >>>i cant see a reason to use tables on that page and the markup is invalid
    >>>anyway. you cant just throw any shit together and expect it to do what
    >>>you want.


    >> There is no need to use that sort of language.


    > heres some more: poo, bum and weewee.


    >> looks like </table> closes the table to me .. and opening another
    >> table would be <table>


    > gee you're clever


    > <quote>
    > I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    > </quote>


    > lets pretend that your markup is valid and the space between the tables
    > still exists. using </table><table...> may solve the problem as the line
    > break has been removed.


    > </table> being the closing tag of the first table and <table> being the
    > opening tag of the second.


    > is that simple enough for you?


    >>>i cant see a reason to use tables on that page


    >> what would you use ?


    > a pointy stick


    >> colored pencils?


    > shinny little pebbles


    > anyone know when skool goes back?


    > --
    > brucie



    Oh boy genius, that space between the tables is for the borders.
    And you are always so polite when people ask about tables.
    Just what makes you the absolute expert on html anyways?
     
    Richard, Jan 10, 2004
    #6
  7. In article Sharon Lee wrote:
    > On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:42:06 +1000, brucie
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >in post <news:>
    > >Sharon Lee said:
    > >
    > >> I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    > >> http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm

    > >
    > >i cant see a reason to use tables on that page and the markup is invalid
    > >anyway. you cant just throw any shit together and expect it to do what
    > >you want.

    >
    > There is no need to use that sort of language.


    No, but in doesn't hurt him, as he knows everything.
    Most invalid bit in your thing is: <td width="25%" </td>

    > You are not talking to your mother or your wife.


    He talks that way to everybody.

    > >
    > ></table><table...>
    > >

    >
    > from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html


    You forgot to quote this bit: "Tables should not be used purely as a
    means to layout document content"

    > looks like </table> closes the table to me .. and opening another
    > table would be <table>


    And when you have 2 linebreaks between them, the whitespace bug may aply
    in your browser. I don't know which browser you use (no problems with
    O7.5p1), but I guess brucies tip to remove whitespace between tags could
    work. I can't see any gap first place.

    > ... and this is really a great help:
    >
    > >i cant see a reason to use tables on that page


    Me neither.

    > what would you use ? colored pencils?


    Correct markup, and CSS for styling. Something like this maybe:

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">
    <title>Test</title>
    <style type="text/css">
    div { border-left:25% solid #DDDDDD;
    background:#DDDDDD;
    text-align:center;
    height:60px
    }
    h1 { margin-top:0;
    border:solid green;
    border-width:10px 0 10px 0;
    font-weight:bold;
    text-align:center;
    }
    </style>
    <div><img src="banner.gif" alt=""></div>
    <h1>PAGE NAME</h1>



    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
    Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
    tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.
     
    Lauri Raittila, Jan 10, 2004
    #7
  8. Sharon Lee

    David Graham Guest

    Lauri Raittila wrote:
    > In article Sharon Lee wrote:
    >> On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:42:06 +1000, brucie
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> in post <news:>
    >>> Sharon Lee said:
    >>>
    >>>> I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    >>>> http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm
    >>>
    >>> i cant see a reason to use tables on that page and the markup is invalid
    >>> anyway. you cant just throw any shit together and expect it to do what
    >>> you want.

    >>
    >> There is no need to use that sort of language.

    >
    > No, but in doesn't hurt him, as he knows everything.
    > Most invalid bit in your thing is: <td width="25%" </td>
    >
    >> You are not talking to your mother or your wife.

    >
    > He talks that way to everybody.
    >
    >>>
    >>> </table><table...>
    >>>

    >>
    >> from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html

    >
    > You forgot to quote this bit: "Tables should not be used purely as a
    > means to layout document content"
    >
    >> looks like </table> closes the table to me .. and opening another
    >> table would be <table>

    >
    > And when you have 2 linebreaks between them, the whitespace bug may aply
    > in your browser. I don't know which browser you use (no problems with
    > O7.5p1), but I guess brucies tip to remove whitespace between tags could
    > work. I can't see any gap first place.
    >
    >> ... and this is really a great help:
    >>
    >>> i cant see a reason to use tables on that page

    >
    > Me neither.
    >
    >> what would you use ? colored pencils?

    >
    > Correct markup, and CSS for styling. Something like this maybe:
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">
    > <title>Test</title>
    > <style type="text/css">
    > div { border-left:25% solid #DDDDDD;
    > background:#DDDDDD;
    > text-align:center;
    > height:60px
    > }
    > h1 { margin-top:0;
    > border:solid green;
    > border-width:10px 0 10px 0;
    > font-weight:bold;
    > text-align:center;
    > }
    > </style>
    > <div><img src="banner.gif" alt=""></div>
    > <h1>PAGE NAME</h1>


    Hi
    Only Opera 7.23 would take the percentage for the border width, nothing
    shows in IE6 or Mozilla 1.4 (I made the border red so I could see it)
    Opera center aligns the banner in space left after border 25% is subtracted
    from browser width, so the banner ends up looking off center to the right.
    Is a percentage an allowed unit for the width of a border? and why did you
    use a border in this example - there does not seem to be any purpose for it,
    especially as you have it in an identical colour to the background so that
    it is invisible.
    David
     
    David Graham, Jan 10, 2004
    #8
  9. Sharon Lee

    rf Guest

    "Sharon Lee" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    >
    > You can see it here:
    >
    > http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm


    Standard problem, solved here each week.

    Bad:
    <img ...>
    </td>

    Good:
    <img ...></td>

    Why are you using a table simply to position an image? You can apply some
    CSS directly to the image.

    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jan 10, 2004
    #9
  10. Sharon Lee

    brucie Guest

    in post <news:>
    Lauri Raittila said:

    > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">
    > <title>Test</title>
    > <style type="text/css">
    > div { border-left:25% solid #DDDDDD;
    > background:#DDDDDD;
    > text-align:center;
    > height:60px
    > }
    > h1 { margin-top:0;
    > border:solid green;
    > border-width:10px 0 10px 0;
    > font-weight:bold;
    > text-align:center;
    > }
    > </style>
    > <div><img src="banner.gif" alt=""></div>
    > <h1>PAGE NAME</h1>



    http://moreshit.bruciesusenetshit.info/itt-thingy.html

    --
    brucie
     
    brucie, Jan 10, 2004
    #10
  11. Sharon Lee

    Sharon Lee Guest

    Thank you for your patience and help Lauri.

    The code that was at the URL I pointed to was a little bit messy
    because I was very tired after working on it for many hours trying
    different types of style elements and in the end left a closing
    bracket out.

    I have never used DIV tag before. I did not know it was important to
    use DIV tag for layout. I thought using tables was a standard for
    layout. I have already written a couple of webpages just using table
    layout.

    'SAMS teach yourself web publishing with HTML4' briefly mentions DIV
    on only one page in relation to alignment but does not mention its
    importance in layout.

    'HTML for Dummies' does not mention the DIV tag at all (as far as I
    could see in the index and the contents)

    I am therefore very grateful that you have brought to my attention the
    importance and power of the DIV tag in layout.

    I tried the code you posted and of course it works.

    My actual code is more complicated that what I posted with contents in
    the other cells. I will learn some more from the net and experiment
    with embedded DIV tags or tables inside DIV.

    I also have another format problem that this will probably solve as
    well. I just woke up a while ago so I haven't had time to apply it but
    I wanted to say thanks now.

    I am always very grateful for the help I recieve and attempt to repay
    it by helping others when I am in a position to do so.

    Thank you once again.


    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:01:51 +0200, Lauri Raittila
    <> wrote:

    >In article Sharon Lee wrote:
    >> On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:42:06 +1000, brucie
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >in post <news:>
    >> >Sharon Lee said:
    >> >
    >> >> I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    >> >> http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm
    >> >
    >> >i cant see a reason to use tables on that page and the markup is invalid
    >> >anyway. you cant just throw any shit together and expect it to do what
    >> >you want.

    >>
    >> There is no need to use that sort of language.

    >
    >No, but in doesn't hurt him, as he knows everything.
    >Most invalid bit in your thing is: <td width="25%" </td>
    >
    >> You are not talking to your mother or your wife.

    >
    >He talks that way to everybody.
    >
    >> >
    >> ></table><table...>
    >> >

    >>
    >> from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html

    >
    >You forgot to quote this bit: "Tables should not be used purely as a
    >means to layout document content"
    >
    >> looks like </table> closes the table to me .. and opening another
    >> table would be <table>

    >
    >And when you have 2 linebreaks between them, the whitespace bug may aply
    >in your browser. I don't know which browser you use (no problems with
    >O7.5p1), but I guess brucies tip to remove whitespace between tags could
    >work. I can't see any gap first place.
    >
    >> ... and this is really a great help:
    >>
    >> >i cant see a reason to use tables on that page

    >
    >Me neither.
    >
    >> what would you use ? colored pencils?

    >
    >Correct markup, and CSS for styling. Something like this maybe:
    >
    ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">
    ><title>Test</title>
    ><style type="text/css">
    >div { border-left:25% solid #DDDDDD;
    > background:#DDDDDD;
    > text-align:center;
    > height:60px
    > }
    >h1 { margin-top:0;
    > border:solid green;
    > border-width:10px 0 10px 0;
    > font-weight:bold;
    > text-align:center;
    > }
    ></style>
    ><div><img src="banner.gif" alt=""></div>
    ><h1>PAGE NAME</h1>
    >
    >
    >
    >--
    >Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
    >Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
    >tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.
    >
     
    Sharon Lee, Jan 10, 2004
    #11
  12. Sharon Lee

    Sharon Lee Guest

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 20:05:27 -0600, "Richard" <anonymous@127.000>
    wrote:

    > Sharon Lee wrote:
    >
    > > I have been unable to remove a space between tables

    >
    > > You can see it here:

    >
    > > http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm

    >
    > > the space between the ad and the next row.

    >
    > > They are separate tables now but they were the same table different
    > > rows but same problem.

    >
    > > I have tried 'padding-bottom: 0;' and 'margin-bottom: 0' styled on
    > > the row and the cell when they were part of one table but no change.

    >
    > > If I load the code in front page there is no space.

    >
    > > I actually code in php so it is not a front page issue, you can see
    > > the same php version here:

    >
    > > http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.php

    >
    > > I have removed all the style now so I can step through any
    > > suggestions.

    >
    > > This is one of two problems I have with html formatting contrary to
    > > instructions, but the solution to this might solve the other one.

    >
    > > Thanks for your suggestions.

    >
    >
    ><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"
    >bgcolor="#DDDDDD">
    > <tr>
    > <td width="25%" </td>
    >
    > <td width="75%" align="center" valign="bottom">
    > <img border="0" src="banner.gif">
    > </td>
    > </tr>
    ></table>
    >
    >
    >One possibility is the fact you forgot a closing >.
    >Then try aslo <img src = ""></td> all one line.
    >
    >
    >But if you learned to use a simple division, you'd have less coding to work
    >with.
    >
    >div.leftheader { width:25%; background:#DDDDDD; float:left; }
    >div.rightheader {width:75%; background:#DDDDDD; }
    >
    >
    ><body>
    ><div class="leftheader">content here</div>
    ><div class="rightheader"><img src=""></div>
    ></body>
    >
    >Between "page name" could be a simple graphic or even <hr>.


    Thank you Richard, you are right, I do not know how to use the DIV
    tag. So I am glad I asked the question and learnt about its
    importance, although disappointed that I have already spent so much
    time writing web pages without using it.
     
    Sharon Lee, Jan 10, 2004
    #12
  13. Sharon Lee

    Sharon Lee Guest

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 08:11:49 GMT, "rf" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Sharon Lee" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    >>
    >> You can see it here:
    >>
    >> http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm

    >
    >Standard problem, solved here each week.
    >
    >Bad:
    ><img ...>
    ></td>
    >
    >Good:
    ><img ...></td>
    >
    >Why are you using a table simply to position an image? You can apply some
    >CSS directly to the image.
    >
    >Cheers
    >Richard.


    Thanks Richard, there is content in the first cell of the table of the
    actual code. I might learn how to use the DIV tag properly to develop
    a solution.
     
    Sharon Lee, Jan 10, 2004
    #13
  14. Sharon Lee

    kayodeok Guest

    (Sharon Lee) wrote in
    news::

    > 'SAMS teach yourself web publishing with HTML4' briefly mentions
    > DIV on only one page in relation to alignment but does not
    > mention its importance in layout.
    >
    > 'HTML for Dummies' does not mention the DIV tag at all (as far
    > as I could see in the index and the contents)


    I once browsed 'HTML for Dummies' in a bookstore, I can't recall what
    caught my eye at the time, but it was enough not to recommend it to
    anybody.

    I usually recommend 'HTML for the World Wide Web' 5th Edition by
    Elizabeth Castro.

    I can't speak for the american market, but it is cheaper than 'HTML
    for dummies' (At Amazon.co.uk anyway)

    --
    Kayode Okeyode
    http://www.kayodeok.co.uk/weblog/
    http://www.kayodeok.btinternet.co.uk/favorites/webdesign.htm
     
    kayodeok, Jan 10, 2004
    #14
  15. Sharon Lee

    rf Guest

    "Richard" <anonymous@127.000> wrote in message
    news:...
    > brucie wrote:
    >


    > Oh boy genius, that space between the tables is for the borders.


    Absolute rubbish.

    > And you are always so polite when people ask about tables.


    Yep. brucie is always that polite.

    > Just what makes you the absolute expert on html anyways?


    Because he gives the Correct Answers.

    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jan 10, 2004
    #15
  16. In article David Graham wrote:
    > Lauri Raittila wrote:
    > > In article Sharon Lee wrote:
    > >> On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 11:42:06 +1000, brucie
    > >> <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> in post <news:>
    > >>> Sharon Lee said:
    > >>>
    > >>>> I have been unable to remove a space between tables
    > >>>> http://www.wodong.com/sharon/test1.htm
    > >>>
    > >>> i cant see a reason to use tables on that page and the markup is invalid
    > >>> anyway. you cant just throw any shit together and expect it to do what
    > >>> you want.
    > >>
    > >> There is no need to use that sort of language.

    > >
    > > No, but in doesn't hurt him, as he knows everything.
    > > Most invalid bit in your thing is: <td width="25%" </td>
    > >
    > >> You are not talking to your mother or your wife.

    > >
    > > He talks that way to everybody.
    > >
    > >>>
    > >>> </table><table...>
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >> from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html

    > >
    > > You forgot to quote this bit: "Tables should not be used purely as a
    > > means to layout document content"
    > >
    > >> looks like </table> closes the table to me .. and opening another
    > >> table would be <table>

    > >
    > > And when you have 2 linebreaks between them, the whitespace bug may aply
    > > in your browser. I don't know which browser you use (no problems with
    > > O7.5p1), but I guess brucies tip to remove whitespace between tags could
    > > work. I can't see any gap first place.
    > >
    > >> ... and this is really a great help:
    > >>
    > >>> i cant see a reason to use tables on that page

    > >
    > > Me neither.
    > >
    > >> what would you use ? colored pencils?

    > >
    > > Correct markup, and CSS for styling. Something like this maybe:


    Gee, it doesn't say that CSS should be correct, right? ;-)

    > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">
    > > <title>Test</title>
    > > <style type="text/css">

    div { padding-left:25% solid #DDDDDD;
    > > background:#DDDDDD;
    > > text-align:center;
    > > height:60px
    > > }
    > > h1 { margin-top:0;
    > > border:solid green;
    > > border-width:10px 0 10px 0;
    > > font-weight:bold;
    > > text-align:center;
    > > }
    > > </style>
    > > <div><img src="banner.gif" alt=""></div>
    > > <h1>PAGE NAME</h1>

    >
    > Hi
    > Only Opera 7.23 would take the percentage for the border width, nothing
    > shows in IE6 or Mozilla 1.4


    Very much possible, as percentages sure aren't allowed. Should have of
    course checked, but it was 5am and my brains were nearing sleep
    already...

    > (I made the border red so I could see it)
    > Opera center aligns the banner in space left after border 25% is subtracted
    > from browser width, so the banner ends up looking off center to the right.


    That was case with orginal too. Padding would have done the same thing,
    so I don't understand why I used border.

    > Is a percentage an allowed unit for the width of a border?


    No.

    > and why did you
    > use a border in this example - there does not seem to be any purpose for it,
    > especially as you have it in an identical colour to the background so that
    > it is invisible.


    To position ad center of remainig 75%, as it was done in orginal. I have
    no idea why one would like to do that.

    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
    Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
    tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.
     
    Lauri Raittila, Jan 10, 2004
    #16
  17. In article Sharon Lee wrote:
    > Thank you for your patience and help Lauri.
    >
    > The code that was at the URL I pointed to was a little bit messy
    > because I was very tired after working on it for many hours trying
    > different types of style elements and in the end left a closing
    > bracket out.


    Thats why you should find errors using tools like validator or CSS-
    checker. Makes it lots easier.

    Validator:
    http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/
    CSS checker:
    http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

    About all you need to know about validation:
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/validation.html

    > I have never used DIV tag before. I did not know it was important to
    > use DIV tag for layout.


    It is not important to use div tag for layout. It is important to not use
    any markup for wrong purpose. As div element don't have any meaning but
    grouping, it can be used as generic layout element, when there is no
    semantically better element in html.

    > I thought using tables was a standard for layout. I have already
    > written a couple of webpages just using table layout.


    Yes, that is the problem. It used to be only way to do any fancy layouts
    about 5 years back, and now there is too many 'experinced' HTML 'gurus'
    that don't know basics of html, and spread misinformation.

    > 'SAMS teach yourself web publishing with HTML4' briefly mentions DIV
    > on only one page in relation to alignment but does not mention its
    > importance in layout.


    I have never seen any good HTML book since tables were introduced. Before
    that it was impossible to use them incorrectly ;-)

    Nowadays there is at least some. (I know whitout seeing that Korpela's
    book can't be all bad, but it is only available in Finnish, I think.)

    > 'HTML for Dummies' does not mention the DIV tag at all (as far as I
    > could see in the index and the contents)


    That is mistitled book, it should be "HTML by Dummies".

    > I am therefore very grateful that you have brought to my attention the
    > importance and power of the DIV tag in layout.
    >
    > I tried the code you posted and of course it works.


    Notice that there was mistake in my code too...

    > I just woke up a while ago so I haven't had time to apply it but
    > I wanted to say thanks now.


    No problem. I woke up few minutes ago too. Too bad sun has already set
    here...

    > I am always very grateful for the help I recieve and attempt to repay
    > it by helping others when I am in a position to do so.


    Easy way to do that is to not top-post and trim quote when posting next
    time:
    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post


    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
    Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
    tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.
     
    Lauri Raittila, Jan 10, 2004
    #17
  18. Sharon Lee

    Duende Guest

    While sitting in a puddle rf scribbled in the mud:

    >> And you are always so polite when people ask about tables.

    >
    > Yep. brucie is always that polite.


    Albert Einstein was known to only be polite when he wanted something.
    Otherwise he said & did whatever he damn well felt like saying & doing,
    kinda like brucie.

    >
    >> Just what makes you the absolute expert on html anyways?

    >
    > Because he gives the Correct Answers.
    >


    --
    Duende
     
    Duende, Jan 10, 2004
    #18
  19. Sharon Lee

    Sharon Lee Guest

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:11:48 GMT, "rf" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Richard" <anonymous@127.000> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> brucie wrote:
    >>

    >
    >> Oh boy genius, that space between the tables is for the borders.

    >
    >Absolute rubbish.
    >
    >> And you are always so polite when people ask about tables.

    >
    >Yep. brucie is always that polite.
    >
    >> Just what makes you the absolute expert on html anyways?

    >
    >Because he gives the Correct Answers.
    >


    Brucie has been very helpful to me on a number of occasions.

    He should post his wisdom on a website somewhere. He could call it
    'Brucie explains it all" at 'brucieexplains.com' and compete head to
    head with little Lissa at http://www.lissaexplains.com/

    Anyway I have had a fun day with DIV, I finished rewriting a page and
    removed all table elements. It is amazing the level of control it
    gives over the layout after fooling around with tables for so long.
    However, I somehow feel more confident with tables and cells than a
    row of images arranged with 'float'. That will come with more
    practice.

    It must be at least 5 times faster to code with DIV instead of tables.
    That means I can make 5 times more mistakes per day and ask Brucie 5
    times more questions and Brucie will get 5 times more opportunities to
    swear !

    So Brucie ... there has been a benefit to me learning about the DIV
    tag after all ;)
     
    Sharon Lee, Jan 11, 2004
    #19
  20. Now OT was: removing space between tables

    In article <>,
    (Sharon Lee) wrote:

    > Brucie has been very helpful to me on a number of occasions.
    >
    > He should post his wisdom on a website somewhere. He could call it
    > 'Brucie explains it all" at 'brucieexplains.com' and compete head to
    > head with little Lissa at http://www.lissaexplains.com/


    Guess you haven't checked out http://bruciesusenetshit.info/ yet? Of
    course, compared to "little Lissa" his is a minimalist approach.

    I don't know that he would want to compete "head to head" with her,
    either. Cue...

    Audry

    --
    tawdry glamour who is at smile global dot com
     
    T. Audry Glamour, Jan 11, 2004
    #20
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