Repositioning

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Neil Greenough, Aug 29, 2004.

  1. I need to change something on the following site:-

    http://www.continental-translations.com/languages.htm

    If you look in the sidebar, the links to the other pages are in the middle
    of the page. I designed the website in Frontpage and so don't know how to
    change this. What i'd like is for the links to the other pages in the
    sidebar to be positioned at the top of the page (just like the other pages).
    Could anybody please look at the 'source' on this page and then tell me what
    I need to change and what I need to change it to?

    Thanks
     
    Neil Greenough, Aug 29, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Neil Greenough

    Neal Guest

    On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:10:07 +0000 (UTC), Neil Greenough
    <> wrote:

    > I need to change something on the following site:-
    >
    > http://www.continental-translations.com/languages.htm


    Hmm. I agree.

    > If you look in the sidebar, the links to the other pages are in the
    > middle
    > of the page. I designed the website in Frontpage


    I'm sorry.

    > and so don't know how to
    > change this.


    I'm building this big cabinet. I bought this great set of tools, and I
    don't know how to do it.

    Authoring software is a tool for those who know how to use it, not a robot
    ready to do your bidding, no matter what Microshit's marketing team told
    you when they sold you this absolute piece of garbage painted to look like
    authoring software.

    Do yourself a HUGE favor and learn how to do HTML without this piece of
    crap, please. Do it for the children. Doesn't have to be overnight,
    either. But until you know HTML and CSS well enough to do the job without
    authoring software, authoring software will provide no benefit and much in
    the way of problems to your pages.

    I'm not trying to be an asshole, really. I'm trying to impress upon you
    how woefully inadequate your expectations of this software are. It's not
    suited for any application it was designed to accomplish.

    > What i'd like is for the links to the other pages in the
    > sidebar to be positioned at the top of the page (just like the other
    > pages).
    > Could anybody please look at the 'source' on this page and then tell me
    > what
    > I need to change and what I need to change it to?


    <img border="0" src="images/nav%20buttons/home.gif" align="absmiddle"
    width="29" height="8">

    Bad bad bad.

    1. No borders mean image as link cannot be discerned as such, so provide
    some other cue to tell the user this is a link. It might be more obvious
    once this is fixed.
    2. align="absmiddle" not only would seem to cause the problem you report,
    but it also doesn't really exist and is bound to screw up some UA. Plus
    align is so last decade. CSS can do this so much cleaner.
    3. No alt text. This is a link, right? What if images don't load, or
    cannot for a user?
    4. This does not even need to be an image! Images cannot resize well like
    text. If the user is sight-impaired the image might be too small - in
    fact, these images make this likely.

    This is just one example of why FrontPage should NEVER be used. You're
    creating a terribly inaccessible and poorly usable page with it.

    BTW this amuses me incredibly. It's the first div on the page.

    <div align="center">
    <center>
    <table border="0" width="629" height="80" bordercolor="#0099CC"
    style.css cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
    <tr>
    <td width="665" height="83"><img border="0" src="images/top_im.gif"
    width="665" height="83"></td>
    </tr>
    </table>
    </center>
    </div>

    It's so, so, so wrong on many levels. If this won't prove FP is a pile of
    steaming doody, what will? It can't even misuse table markup properly.

    I leave it as an exercise to the OP to find out what's stupid and wrong
    here. I see 5 things without even thinking about it that are just inane or
    incorrect.
     
    Neal, Aug 29, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Neil Greenough

    Neal Guest

    On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:34:00 -0400, Neal <> wrote:

    > BTW this amuses me incredibly. It's the first div on the page.


    Apologies, a copy-paste error made it worse than it actually is. This is
    correct:

    <div align="center">
    <center>
    <table border="0" width="629" height="80" bordercolor="#0099CC"
    style="border: 2 solid #0099CC" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
    <tr>
    <td width="665" height="83"><img border="0" src="images/top_im.gif"
    width="665" height="83"></td>
    </tr>
    </table>
    </center>
    </div>

    Still extremely wrong.
     
    Neal, Aug 29, 2004
    #3
  4. Neil Greenough

    WebcastMaker Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Authoring software is a tool for those who know how to use it, not a robot
    > ready to do your bidding, no matter what Microshit's marketing team told
    > you when they sold you this absolute piece of garbage painted to look like
    > authoring software.


    This says, "I am a bitter little man" There is little need to belittle
    something just because you don't like it. I thought you may have been
    better than that.

    > Do yourself a HUGE favor and learn how to do HTML

    Good advice

    > without this piece of crap..

    There you go again..


    > I'm not trying to be an asshole, really.

    But that's how you came across.

    > I'm trying to impress upon you
    > how woefully inadequate your expectations of this software are. It's not
    > suited for any application it was designed to accomplish.


    ANY tool used to develop web pages is not mutually exclusive with
    understanding HTML/css. FP is completely capable of producing fully
    compliant code. One just has to know how to use it.

    If you remove all your Microsoft bashing, your post was full of good
    information. But how many people never got to the good advice, because
    you came across as a MS basher, so they turned you off. Calling
    Microsoft names like Microshit, really does not fit well with someone
    trying to give good advice to newbies.

    Are there better tools out there? Maybe, but it is personal choice what
    one might consider better. And what one considers better, evolves over
    time to. This coming from an ex dream weaver user that now is a devoted
    topstyle user.

    --
    WebcastMaker
    Webcasting for free
    http://www.webentations.com
     
    WebcastMaker, Aug 29, 2004
    #4
  5. Neil Greenough

    Anna Bessant Guest

    To be honest, I don't have the time to learn HTML and I don't want to make a
    living out of designing websites. Likewise, I am happy with the way the
    website is apart from this one part.

    If anybody could repost the html source for this page which would position
    the side bar at the top, would appreciate it!

    Neal, I appreciate what you say, however as I said, I don't have the time to
    do it!


    "WebcastMaker" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    > > Authoring software is a tool for those who know how to use it, not a

    robot
    > > ready to do your bidding, no matter what Microshit's marketing team told
    > > you when they sold you this absolute piece of garbage painted to look

    like
    > > authoring software.

    >
    > This says, "I am a bitter little man" There is little need to belittle
    > something just because you don't like it. I thought you may have been
    > better than that.
    >
    > > Do yourself a HUGE favor and learn how to do HTML

    > Good advice
    >
    > > without this piece of crap..

    > There you go again..
    >
    >
    > > I'm not trying to be an asshole, really.

    > But that's how you came across.
    >
    > > I'm trying to impress upon you
    > > how woefully inadequate your expectations of this software are. It's not
    > > suited for any application it was designed to accomplish.

    >
    > ANY tool used to develop web pages is not mutually exclusive with
    > understanding HTML/css. FP is completely capable of producing fully
    > compliant code. One just has to know how to use it.
    >
    > If you remove all your Microsoft bashing, your post was full of good
    > information. But how many people never got to the good advice, because
    > you came across as a MS basher, so they turned you off. Calling
    > Microsoft names like Microshit, really does not fit well with someone
    > trying to give good advice to newbies.
    >
    > Are there better tools out there? Maybe, but it is personal choice what
    > one might consider better. And what one considers better, evolves over
    > time to. This coming from an ex dream weaver user that now is a devoted
    > topstyle user.
    >
    > --
    > WebcastMaker
    > Webcasting for free
    > http://www.webentations.com
     
    Anna Bessant, Aug 29, 2004
    #5
  6. Neil Greenough

    Neal Guest

    On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:19:11 -0400, WebcastMaker <> wrote:

    > This says, "I am a bitter little man"


    Well, bitter and man, ok. I'm not that little though ;)

    Point well taken, but isn't it true that it's next to impossible to
    produce a really good piece of work with FP without knowing the code
    better than the program, and putting in extra time to undo the errors the
    authoring software inserts by default?

    Essentially, I protest the view that this software is your own personal
    web designer, and all you need to do is hit a few buttons and POOF there's
    a webpage. It is an insult to the hard work which actually goes into
    creating a good page.
     
    Neal, Aug 29, 2004
    #6
  7. Neil Greenough

    WebcastMaker Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > > This says, "I am a bitter little man"

    > Well, bitter and man, ok. I'm not that little though ;)


    Atkins, down over 100 pounds in just over a year!

    > Point well taken, but isn't it true that it's next to impossible to
    > produce a really good piece of work with FP without knowing the code
    > better than the program, and putting in extra time to undo the errors the
    > authoring software inserts by default?


    FP produced horrendous code out of the box. As does (but not as bad)
    any WYSIWYG editor. HML/CSS knowledge is mandatory regardless of the
    tool you use to write the code. Some pretty nasty sites have been
    written with notepad... But then that too is a MS product (0_o)

    > Essentially, I protest the view that this software is your own personal
    > web designer, and all you need to do is hit a few buttons and POOF there's
    > a webpage. It is an insult to the hard work which actually goes into
    > creating a good page.


    Agreed

    --
    WebcastMaker
    Webcasting for free
    http://www.webentations.com
     
    WebcastMaker, Aug 29, 2004
    #7
  8. Neil Greenough

    SomeGei Guest

    wow... some people seriously need to get a life..

    "Neal" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:10:07 +0000 (UTC), Neil Greenough
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> I need to change something on the following site:-
    >>
    >> http://www.continental-translations.com/languages.htm

    >
    > Hmm. I agree.
    >
    >> If you look in the sidebar, the links to the other pages are in the
    >> middle
    >> of the page. I designed the website in Frontpage

    >
    > I'm sorry.
    >
    >> and so don't know how to
    >> change this.

    >
    > I'm building this big cabinet. I bought this great set of tools, and I
    > don't know how to do it.
    >
    > Authoring software is a tool for those who know how to use it, not a robot
    > ready to do your bidding, no matter what Microshit's marketing team told
    > you when they sold you this absolute piece of garbage painted to look like
    > authoring software.
    >
    > Do yourself a HUGE favor and learn how to do HTML without this piece of
    > crap, please. Do it for the children. Doesn't have to be overnight,
    > either. But until you know HTML and CSS well enough to do the job without
    > authoring software, authoring software will provide no benefit and much in
    > the way of problems to your pages.
    >
    > I'm not trying to be an asshole, really. I'm trying to impress upon you
    > how woefully inadequate your expectations of this software are. It's not
    > suited for any application it was designed to accomplish.
    >
    >> What i'd like is for the links to the other pages in the
    >> sidebar to be positioned at the top of the page (just like the other
    >> pages).
    >> Could anybody please look at the 'source' on this page and then tell me
    >> what
    >> I need to change and what I need to change it to?

    >
    > <img border="0" src="images/nav%20buttons/home.gif" align="absmiddle"
    > width="29" height="8">
    >
    > Bad bad bad.
    >
    > 1. No borders mean image as link cannot be discerned as such, so provide
    > some other cue to tell the user this is a link. It might be more obvious
    > once this is fixed.
    > 2. align="absmiddle" not only would seem to cause the problem you report,
    > but it also doesn't really exist and is bound to screw up some UA. Plus
    > align is so last decade. CSS can do this so much cleaner.
    > 3. No alt text. This is a link, right? What if images don't load, or
    > cannot for a user?
    > 4. This does not even need to be an image! Images cannot resize well like
    > text. If the user is sight-impaired the image might be too small - in
    > fact, these images make this likely.
    >
    > This is just one example of why FrontPage should NEVER be used. You're
    > creating a terribly inaccessible and poorly usable page with it.
    >
    > BTW this amuses me incredibly. It's the first div on the page.
    >
    > <div align="center">
    > <center>
    > <table border="0" width="629" height="80" bordercolor="#0099CC"
    > style.css cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
    > <tr>
    > <td width="665" height="83"><img border="0" src="images/top_im.gif"
    > width="665" height="83"></td>
    > </tr>
    > </table>
    > </center>
    > </div>
    >
    > It's so, so, so wrong on many levels. If this won't prove FP is a pile of
    > steaming doody, what will? It can't even misuse table markup properly.
    >
    > I leave it as an exercise to the OP to find out what's stupid and wrong
    > here. I see 5 things without even thinking about it that are just inane or
    > incorrect.
     
    SomeGei, Aug 30, 2004
    #8
  9. Neil Greenough

    WebcastMaker Guest

    In article <XAuYc.888$>,
    says...
    > wow... some people seriously need to get a life..


    na, you just have to lurk a while to understand the personalities.
    Believe it or not, some people even think Im an ass.

    Go figure... (0_o)
    --
    WebcastMaker
    Webcasting for free
    http://www.webentations.com
     
    WebcastMaker, Aug 30, 2004
    #9
  10. Neil Greenough

    Lois Guest

    "Neil Greenough" wrote:
    : I need to change something on the following site:-
    :
    : http://www.continental-translations.com/languages.htm
    :
    : If you look in the sidebar, the links to the other pages are in the middle
    : of the page. I designed the website in Frontpage and so don't know how to
    : change this. What i'd like is for the links to the other pages in the
    : sidebar to be positioned at the top of the page (just like the other
    pages).
    : Could anybody please look at the 'source' on this page and then tell me
    what
    : I need to change and what I need to change it to?

    I agree with the others that the coding is atrocious, but if you don't have
    time to fix it, I suggest at least making the menu links into text links and
    not images.

    Take a look at http://beta.wordsweave.com/continental.html, where I
    temporarily uploaded your page. (It's in a subdomain where search engines
    won't find it, and I'll take it down after you've seen it.) First I added
    "valign="top"" to the td cell that has the menu. The menu didn't appear for
    me, so I changed the first 3 links to text links, and they appear now at the
    top of the column.

    The links appear at the top of the column for your other pages because the
    other pages are shorter. Without "valign="top"" (quotation marks only around
    "top"), the cell contents are centred, but you don't see this as much on
    shorter pages because the menu takes up most of the column.

    Lois
     
    Lois, Aug 30, 2004
    #10
  11. Lois,

    Thanks for that - I appreciate it!

    Neil

    Lois <> wrote in message
    news:mgwYc.1244$...
    > "Neil Greenough" wrote:
    > : I need to change something on the following site:-
    > :
    > : http://www.continental-translations.com/languages.htm
    > :
    > : If you look in the sidebar, the links to the other pages are in the

    middle
    > : of the page. I designed the website in Frontpage and so don't know how

    to
    > : change this. What i'd like is for the links to the other pages in the
    > : sidebar to be positioned at the top of the page (just like the other
    > pages).
    > : Could anybody please look at the 'source' on this page and then tell me
    > what
    > : I need to change and what I need to change it to?
    >
    > I agree with the others that the coding is atrocious, but if you don't

    have
    > time to fix it, I suggest at least making the menu links into text links

    and
    > not images.
    >
    > Take a look at http://beta.wordsweave.com/continental.html, where I
    > temporarily uploaded your page. (It's in a subdomain where search engines
    > won't find it, and I'll take it down after you've seen it.) First I added
    > "valign="top"" to the td cell that has the menu. The menu didn't appear

    for
    > me, so I changed the first 3 links to text links, and they appear now at

    the
    > top of the column.
    >
    > The links appear at the top of the column for your other pages because the
    > other pages are shorter. Without "valign="top"" (quotation marks only

    around
    > "top"), the cell contents are centred, but you don't see this as much on
    > shorter pages because the menu takes up most of the column.
    >
    > Lois
    >
    >
    >
     
    Neil Greenough, Aug 30, 2004
    #11
  12. Neil Greenough

    Lois Guest

    "Neil Greenough" wrote:
    : Lois,
    :
    : Thanks for that - I appreciate it!

    You're welcome. I've removed the page from my site now.

    Lois
     
    Lois, Aug 30, 2004
    #12
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Vidar Petursson

    Re: Image Repositioning in ASP.NET

    Vidar Petursson, Jun 4, 2004, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    380
    Vidar Petursson
    Jun 4, 2004
  2. Paul Fi

    repositioning panel inside page

    Paul Fi, Nov 17, 2004, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    341
    Paul Fi
    Nov 17, 2004
  3. pete

    Repositioning controls on a web page

    pete, Jul 29, 2003, in forum: ASP .Net Web Controls
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    111
    Alvin Bruney
    Jul 30, 2003
  4. Hein de Ruyter

    Repositioning HTML-table after post

    Hein de Ruyter, Aug 31, 2005, in forum: ASP .Net Web Controls
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    488
    Steven Cheng[MSFT]
    Sep 2, 2005
  5. Lee

    problem repositioning control at runtime (c#)

    Lee, Jun 28, 2006, in forum: ASP .Net Web Controls
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    120
Loading...

Share This Page