Ridding my site of frames?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Lorne Cameron, Jun 25, 2003.

  1. OK, so I've finally relised that "frames are evil" - it's linking to
    specific pages and imroved search engine performance that finally sold
    it to me.

    So how do I go about ridding my site,
    http://www.sportsunion.strath.ac.uk/snowsports , of frames whilst
    keeping the same functionality (ie. only the main "frame" scrolls)? I'm
    guessing CSS will provide the answer, which I have a little experience
    with already. Are there any specific resources I should be looking at
    (all the CSS tutorials I've been reading so far seem to go into a lot of
    unecessary depth)?

    Is there a way of embedding html files in other html files (eg. embed
    header.html and contents.html in each page) so that I don't have to edit
    code in every page if I want to change the left menu bar? Only having
    to change one file (contents.html) to change something in the menu bar
    was something I really liked about using frames that I'd like to
    continue to be able to do if possible.

    Any general constructive critisism of the site is very welcome too.

    Thanks.
    LC.
    Lorne Cameron, Jun 25, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. After-thought to previous message:

    One of the major critisisms of using frames seems to be that each "page"
    of the site does not have a unique URL displayed in the address bar. So
    I'm thinking, you could still use frames but have a distinct URL and a
    distinct frameset for each page, each frameset containing hearder.html,
    sidebar.html and whatever.html in the main frame. When a link is
    clicked, the whole window would be targeted and the new frameset loaded.
    I know that this would require more coding when adding new pages, but
    it would mean that I could still be able to alter only one file if I
    wanted to change the side menu.

    Would this still be considered bad design? What problems would/could
    this approach lead to?

    Thanks.
    LC.
    Lorne Cameron, Jun 25, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Lorne Cameron

    Chris Beall Guest

    > Is there a way of embedding html files in other html files (eg. embed
    > header.html and contents.html in each page) so that I don't have to

    edit
    > code in every page if I want to change the left menu bar?


    Yes. Use a preprocessor. I like the one at
    http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~dbareis/ppwizard.htm.

    Chris Beall
    Chris Beall, Jun 25, 2003
    #3
  4. Lorne Cameron wrote:
    > So how do I go about ridding my site,
    > http://www.sportsunion.strath.ac.uk/snowsports , of frames whilst
    > keeping the same functionality (ie. only the main "frame" scrolls)?


    http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/www/frames/#layout

    > Is there a way of embedding html files in other html files (eg. embed
    > header.html and contents.html in each page) so that I don't have to edit
    > code in every page if I want to change the left menu bar?


    http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/www/frames/#worm
    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign

    --
    David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
    Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
    Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
    http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/2003/5/30/microsoft-announces-ie-is-dead
    David Dorward, Jun 25, 2003
    #4
  5. Lorne Cameron wrote:

    > When a link is clicked, the whole window would be targeted and the new
    > frameset loaded. I know that this would require more coding when adding
    > new pages, but it would mean that I could still be able to alter only one
    > file if I wanted to change the side menu.


    > What problems would/could this approach lead to?


    By the time you factor in suitable <noframes> content, and a robots.txt to
    persuade search engines to index only the frameset documents (with
    <noframes> content). You will have a *lot* of work and pretty much double
    the bandwidth requirements for HTML for the site.

    Its fairly accessible, but a bandwidth and effort nightmare.



    --
    David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
    Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
    Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
    http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/2003/5/30/microsoft-announces-ie-is-dead
    David Dorward, Jun 25, 2003
    #5
  6. Lorne Cameron

    Clive Quinn Guest

    Hi Lorne,

    If you are not familiar with CSS then just use something like the following
    within your frame tags

    noresize scrolling="no"

    It does exactly what it says Noresize means you cant resize frame window and
    scrolling means it wont allow frame to scroll

    I would also suggest to look at this site :
    http://webdesign.about.com/cs/css/a/aa110402a.htm

    Allows your site look as if you are using frames yet it is only CSS
    positioning
    Hope this helps
    "Lorne Cameron" <> wrote in message
    news:3ef9fe6c$...
    > OK, so I've finally relised that "frames are evil" - it's linking to
    > specific pages and imroved search engine performance that finally sold
    > it to me.
    >
    > So how do I go about ridding my site,
    > http://www.sportsunion.strath.ac.uk/snowsports , of frames whilst
    > keeping the same functionality (ie. only the main "frame" scrolls)? I'm
    > guessing CSS will provide the answer, which I have a little experience
    > with already. Are there any specific resources I should be looking at
    > (all the CSS tutorials I've been reading so far seem to go into a lot of
    > unecessary depth)?
    >
    > Is there a way of embedding html files in other html files (eg. embed
    > header.html and contents.html in each page) so that I don't have to edit
    > code in every page if I want to change the left menu bar? Only having
    > to change one file (contents.html) to change something in the menu bar
    > was something I really liked about using frames that I'd like to
    > continue to be able to do if possible.
    >
    > Any general constructive critisism of the site is very welcome too.
    >
    > Thanks.
    > LC.
    >
    Clive Quinn, Jun 25, 2003
    #6
  7. Lorne Cameron

    brucie Guest

    In post <o_nKa.19992$>
    Clive Quinn said...


    > noresize scrolling="no"
    >
    > It does exactly what it says Noresize means you cant resize frame window and
    > scrolling means it wont allow frame to scroll


    really stupid idea. your content will be inaccessible unless the
    visitor has a canvas area that will fit the content. something as
    simple are changing the font size can cause it.

    please don't toppost
    How am I supposed to post my replies in a newsgroup?:
    http://allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post


    --
    brucie a. blackford. 26/June/2003 06:57:03 am kilo.
    http://loser.brucies.com/
    brucie, Jun 25, 2003
    #7
  8. "Lorne Cameron" <> wrote in message
    news:3ef9fe6c$...
    > OK, so I've finally relised that "frames are evil" - it's linking to
    > specific pages and imroved search engine performance that finally sold
    > it to me.
    >
    > So how do I go about ridding my site,
    > http://www.sportsunion.strath.ac.uk/snowsports , of frames whilst
    > keeping the same functionality (ie. only the main "frame" scrolls)? I'm
    > guessing CSS will provide the answer, which I have a little experience
    > with already. Are there any specific resources I should be looking at
    > (all the CSS tutorials I've been reading so far seem to go into a lot of
    > unecessary depth)?


    With this particular site, I'd leave it scrolling everything. If somebody
    wants to read down, then they aren't interested in going somewhere else yet.
    And if there are links below they certainly don't need the left links. Once
    they are ready to see what else you have to offer, they will gladly scroll
    to the top.

    If you only had a left menu, then I would say that you can make it float. I
    think CSS will allow that to happen, however I could be mistaken and it is
    actually Javascript that allows things to float. I'm guessing it is really
    CSS, though.

    > Is there a way of embedding html files in other html files (eg. embed
    > header.html and contents.html in each page) so that I don't have to edit
    > code in every page if I want to change the left menu bar? Only having
    > to change one file (contents.html) to change something in the menu bar
    > was something I really liked about using frames that I'd like to
    > continue to be able to do if possible.


    Yes, SSI commands will easily do that. However, make sure your web server
    allows SSI, and do realize you will either have to change *.html to *.shtml
    or edit a server file to allow .html to be parsed through the SSI portion of
    the web server.

    Failing SSI, PHP will work. The good thing about PHP over PERL is you can
    use PHP sort of like an extension of HTML. You can actually rename all your
    *.html files to *.php and if your server allows PHP, then your site will
    load as normal, nothing will go wrong! [Keeping in mind your references to
    *.html files locally now need to be changed within each page to *.php or
    welse something will go wrong :]

    You can easily find information about SSI and PHP Includes by searching for
    them on google, it's pretty much everywhere.

    > Any general constructive critisism of the site is very welcome too.
    >
    > Thanks.
    > LC.
    >
    Anonymous Joe, Jun 25, 2003
    #8
  9. Lorne Cameron wrote:

    > OK, so I've finally relised that "frames are evil" - it's linking to
    > specific pages and imroved search engine performance that finally sold
    > it to me.


    Sorry to reply to myself *again*, but I've been thinking about my
    options for what I want to achieve, and I've come across I-Frames, which
    look a lot easier to implement than advanced CSS. I understand the
    basic implementation of I-Frames, but what problems of frames do they
    solve and what problems remain? It seems to me that by using I-Frames I
    could embed hearder.html and contents.html in each page and have a
    distict URL for each page, correct? What about the search engine
    problems of regular frames - are these solved?

    Thanks again.
    LC.
    Lorne Cameron, Jun 26, 2003
    #9
  10. Lorne Cameron

    Isofarro Guest

    Lorne Cameron wrote:

    > One of the major critisisms of using frames seems to be that each "page"
    > of the site does not have a unique URL displayed in the address bar. So
    > I'm thinking, you could still use frames but have a distinct URL and a
    > distinct frameset for each page, each frameset containing hearder.html,
    > sidebar.html and whatever.html in the main frame.


    What did you initially consider as being the benefits of using the frames in
    the first place?


    --
    Iso.
    FAQs: http://html-faq.com http://alt-html.org http://allmyfaqs.com/
    Recommended Hosting: http://www.affordablehost.com/
    Web Standards: http://www.webstandards.org/
    Isofarro, Jun 26, 2003
    #10
  11. Lorne Cameron

    PeterMcC Guest

    Lorne Cameron wrote:
    > Hopefully I won't need to change the
    > navigation panel much/at all, and maybe Advanced Find and Replace
    > (reccomended by an alt.html user, very good program) will be able to
    > help me out if I do need to.


    Have a look at SSI It's a doddle for including regular bits of stuff on
    different pages.
    Dead easy and there's good info at:
    http://www.bignosebird.com/sdocs/include.shtml

    You could also use php or asp includes
    http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/getting_started/includes2.htm
    http://www.htmlhelp.com/faq/html/all.html#include-file


    --
    PeterMcC
    If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
    inappropriate or offensive in any way,
    please ignore it and accept my apologies.
    PeterMcC, Jun 26, 2003
    #11
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Powerslave2112

    From Frames to no frames?

    Powerslave2112, Jan 20, 2004, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    565
    brucie
    Jan 20, 2004
  2. Philip
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    940
    Karl Groves
    Jun 28, 2004
  3. Ale

    Frames or not Frames...

    Ale, Aug 3, 2005, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    17
    Views:
    934
    Adrienne
    Aug 5, 2005
  4. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    984
    dorayme
    Feb 10, 2006
  5. Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,185
Loading...

Share This Page