Roedy please respect the netiquette

[Steve R. Burrus]

[..]
clearly this entire thread needs to be added to that goddamn glossary.
f***, who does roedy think he is, helping newbies? i say: every man
for himself. personally, i only ask questions. even if i know the
answer to someones question, why would i answer it? i need money and
don't have time for altruism, it's for suckers. rather than doing
something with my life, i prefer to tear down other people's efforts,
it's much easier than accomplishing anything on my own, after all.

Well, I guess that this pretty "long-running" discussion thread has just
about played itself out by now re. Roedy Green!!! I might add my voice
also to the many of responses defending Roedy from the "attack" by Mr.
John Charlois from Thursday!! That is a very valid and legitimate point
which I have read over and over again, that if Roedy offered a detailed
response to every single "Newbie's" question about something or another,
it would tend to "clog up" the "comp.lang.java.programmers" with all of
the megabytes!!! So, I guess that my voice on this "issue" will end the
discussion of it.

 

[Roedy Green]

roedy, believe it or not, isn't the issue. his site's useful, or not.
if it's not useful, do something constructive and revamp it. if your
not going to do that, at least offer specific criticisms. if you
were, for example, to catalogue every single broken link on your on
site and then constantly post in c.l.j.* about this crummy website,
that'd actually be constructive.

That would not be very useful. Xenu will happily report all the
broken links automatically. The problem is manually researching them,
ideally to find a replacement link, or find out what happened to the
company. Are they gone entirely? Did some one buy them out?

People happily report broken links but only angels report the
replacement links or what should be done with them.


I focus mainly on keeping my internal links unbroken, and leave it up
to you to do your own researching on broken external ones. Fixing
broken links is extremely tedious work, and I tend to put it on low
priority, figuring people can chase them as well as I.

Unfortunately the lifetime of any university link is usually one year,
and many companies only a couple of years.


What we need is a global scheme for automatically fixing links.

see http://mindprod.com/projects/htmlbrokenlink.html#GLOBAL

That's what computers are for!

 

[Jezuch]

U¿ytkownik John Charlois napisa³:

I use the newsgroups a lot : but I never ever post
a single message. (...)

How can you ask someone to respect netiquette if you never did yourself?
--
Ecce Jezuch
"Feeling paranoid, true enemy or false friend
Anxiety's attacking me, my air is getting thin
Feeling claustrophobic like the walls are closing in
Blood stains on my hands and I don't know where I've been"
- D. Mustaine

 

[Steven J Sobol]

If you want, you can get yourself a local mirror copy of the website,
and keep it automatically up to date. see
http://mindprod.com/products.html#SITE

Good idea - I'll throw a mirror up soon.

Regarding Monsieur Charlois's comments... it is his right to dislike the site,
but I have a few comments to make in return.

When I (very recently) started reading c.l.j.programmer I initially felt that
the posting of the links was silly - "who is this goober posting URLs to his
site a dozen times a day?" Having been on Usenet for extremely close to 15
years (it'll be 15 years in September), I had almost written you off as
a spammer.

Almost.

Then I realized that you aren't posting in an effort to sell your product(s)
as a panacea for everyone's problems. I realized this when I actually went
to one of the links and found useful information instead of a bunch of
marketing BS.

I don't use it all that often, but it is a great resource when I need it.

 

[Roedy Green]

I don't like the look of Roedy Green's site either - in fact, I come across
information on there that is blatantly incorrect.

What's the problem with the visuals? I have been working to get
everything controlled by a single style sheet so those problems should
be easier to correct.

At some point I'll even figure out how to offer you alternates.

What information is incorrect? I presume you are talking about Java
rather than the political parts of the site. I'm an opinionated bird.
Are you referring to incorrect facts or off the wall opinions, e.g. my
dismissal of XML?

 

[Jezuch]

U¿ytkownik Roedy Green napisa³:

What's the problem with the visuals? I have been working to get
everything controlled by a single style sheet so those problems should
be easier to correct.

It's very... colourful
But I *do* like the looks. Although some things do not align well in Mozilla.

At some point I'll even figure out how to offer you alternates.

Maybe:
http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/alternatives.html
?
--
Ecce Jezuch
"But it's not real and that's why its how I always want to feel
so let's die, before the secret gets revealed
I've tried but nothing ever can appeal
and if you don't mind I'd like to throw it all away" - J. Stem

 

[Darryl L. Pierce]

My point is very simple : Roedy is *not* respecting
the netiquette.

What is "the netiquette"?

About every single message posted in this newsgroup
has some response saying "please, see ... mindprod.com".

It introduces the person to a *resource*, rather than just answering their
question. It's like the old saying, "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a
day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime". Roedy gives them a
reference to a resource to answer their *current* question and also a play
to go to answer any *future* questions they might have.

May I ask what happens when you decide to stop
paying for your mindprod.com domain name ?

What does that matter?

Well, what happens is simple : countless people
looking for infos find useless post saying
"see mindprod.com/xxx/yyy/zzz" and the links
are of course not working.

And can just hop on over to google.com's *CACHE* of pages and see them.
That's quite a thin argument...

But, you'll argue that you'll pay forever
for you site right !?

Roedy's site is *free*.

(and, btw, also not
reorganize another time all the links) !?

I thought you weren't trying to get personal?

Ok : you have a car crash tomorrow or
whatever... What happens ?

Again: google.com's cache has the pages. Also, I'm sure Roedy has a
contingency plan in place for his resource.

Your posts in this group totally annoys me
and I think you have a *huge* ego problem for
spending your life posting "see mindprod". But

There's the problem: it *is* personal on your part. *YOU* don't like *ROEDY*
and as such are going to slam him through his glossary no matter *how* it's
done. Well, if that's the worst he's done (posting alot of messages
referring people to a Java resource) then you should be thankful; there are
trolls, Java-bashers and spammers who should really be the target of your
wrath.

I recognize that many may find it useful
(though not when accessing your posts
from groups.google.com or another archiving
service).

But, he should change because it annoys *you*, right?

You can post your "see mindprod stuff".

But please, respect the netiquette will you ?

WTF is "the netiquette"?

So, Roedy, thanks for respecting the Netiquette,

Hard to respect something so ambiguous as "the netiquette".

<snip more "the netiquette" stuff>

--
/**
* @author Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]>
* @see The J2ME FAQ <http://mypage.org/mcpierce/j2mefaq.html>
* @quote "What do you care what others think, Mr. Feynman?"
* @geek echo '$_ = "Jvtu bopuifs Pfsm ibdlfs."; y/a-z/za-y/; print' |
perl
*/

 

[Gary Labowitz]

What is "the netiquette"?

It introduces the person to a *resource*, rather than just answering their
question. It's like the old saying, "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a
day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime". Roedy gives them a
reference to a resource to answer their *current* question and also a play
to go to answer any *future* questions they might have.

That's: Give a man an answer, and you solve his immediate problem. Teach a
man to program, and you frustrate him for the rest of his life.

You guys kill me.

The whole basis of the complaint is one poster who doesn't like Roedy's web
site and his references to it. So, my friend, don't use it. Any attempt to
control Roedy to do what you think is the better way is useless. First,
Roedy ain't like that. Anyone here for a while has learned that he is his
own man, and takes responsibility for what he does. Second, where do you get
the authority to try and "reform" him? Third, hasn't this gone on long
enough? Roedy provides a service, free, that is comprehensive. It probably
has flaws (hey! glad to know he's human!) but its overwhelming goodness
makes it a valuable resource.

If you don't like it, don't use it. And you are free to skip over his posts
also. See? It is easy.

Now, as they say in the "Who wants to be a Java Programmer" game: that's my
answer, my FINAL answer. Goodbye.

 

[Roedy Green]

Maybe:
http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/alternatives.html

That looks pretty easy. Now I need to check up on how you cascade
cascading style sheets so you can do theme and variations. The biggie
would be different styles for different size monitors. People with
smaller monitors complain my type is too big and my tables too large.

After that, look for a way to give Applets different amounts of room
in different style sheets.

 

[Roedy Green]

It probably
has flaws (hey! glad to know he's human!) but its overwhelming goodness
makes it a valuable resource.

What I find odd is that people presume I post erroneous information on
PURPOSE, like the Monty Python Bulgarian phrase book.

If you see something wrong, please tell me. I might not have time to
fix it right away, but I will put it on my todo list. Nearly always I
have something fixed within half an hour of receiving an email on it.
I put fixing mistakes as top priority.

I started writing the glossary circa 1995 as my newbie notes to
myself, my best understanding at the time. Some of these early
misconceptions are still in there. Please, if you notice them, help
rout them out.

 

[Bryce]

What's the problem with the visuals? I have been working to get
everything controlled by a single style sheet so those problems should
be easier to correct.

Nothing wrong. Its servicable, if not fancy. I have no problems with
it. In fact, its 100% better than some sites I go to where the
background is black, and the text color is something that I can't
read. I end up having to highlight the text to read it.

<rant>
this doesn't apply to roedy, but I figured I'd use this opportunity to
jump on my soapbox.

People, when you are designing a website, remember that approximately
20% of males have red/green deficiency color blindness, including
myself. Some sites use horrendous color schemes that makes it
impossible for me (an 20% of men) to read.

Do yourself a favor and consult:
http://www.visibone.com/colorblind/
</rant>

 

[Roedy Green]

Do yourself a favor and consult:
http://www.visibone.com/colorblind/
</rant>

What is the problem?

Is there somewhere there is not sufficient contrast?

Is it that I do so much encoding of information with colour that you
are missing out?

Do the colour schemes seem jarring?

These may be fixed with an alternate style sheet.e

 

[Andrew Thompson]

or quoted : ....
..The biggie
would be different styles for different size monitors.

What about different screen resolution?
Waht about when the user has the browser
at 'half screen size'?

..People with
smaller monitors complain my type is too big ..

Size your body text as 100% and give 'em
instructions on how to configure their own
(damn) browser text size is what I say.
[ though I currently have no instructions
on how to do that.. ;-) ]

..and my tables too large.

Ahhh... your tables.

Objects I intensely enjoy hating.
(one of my many minor hobbies)

I have noticed that sometimes an html
echor will take me to 'a single word on screen'..
it is only when I notice the horizontal
scroll bar that I realise all the good
bits are hidden off my screen to the right..

I was thinking that a better format
would be to dump the tables and use a
different and more 'squeezy' approach.

Make the info. in the 1st column of the

After that, look for a way to give Applets different amounts of room
in different style sheets.

A particular case for using %.
That way you can size it proportional
to the size of the browser window that
the *user* *wants*..

Take, for instance..
<http://www.physci.org/ms/msclassfile.jsp>
Which has a fixed height, but adjusts
horizontally to ..whatever width the
user wants. And even better (& now fixed)..
<http://www.physci.org/test/lnf/fullwnd5.html>
...you cannot get better than *that* at
adjusting to the window size the user wants. ;-)

 

[Andrew Thompson]

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:15:43 -0400, Bryce


What is the problem?

Try this..
<http://colorfilter.wickline.org/?a=...blind;l=0;j=1;u=mindprod.com/inwords.html;t=m>

Funky, huh? A great little 'quick check'

These may be fixed with an alternate style sheet.e

That could be the way to go if it is
a problem, I am not even sure my own
sites are OK, though I try to keep a
good contrast in my pages..

I'd be interested to hear if you have
any particular problems with my sites
Bryce. Especially 1.1C, which somebody
on an HTML group referred to as being
done in "pornographer's colors". ;-)

 

[Bryce]

What is the problem?

I said it didn't apply to your site...

 

[Bryce]

That could be the way to go if it is
a problem, I am not even sure my own
sites are OK, though I try to keep a
good contrast in my pages..

I'd be interested to hear if you have
any particular problems with my sites
Bryce. Especially 1.1C, which somebody
on an HTML group referred to as being
done in "pornographer's colors". ;-)

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite
http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help
http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology

1.1C looks fine. I'll try to find a site that isn't and post it as an
example.

 

[Bryce]

Try this..
<http://colorfilter.wickline.org/?a=...blind;l=0;j=1;u=mindprod.com/inwords.html;t=m>

Funky, huh? A great little 'quick check'


That could be the way to go if it is
a problem, I am not even sure my own
sites are OK, though I try to keep a
good contrast in my pages..

I'd be interested to hear if you have
any particular problems with my sites
Bryce. Especially 1.1C, which somebody
on an HTML group referred to as being
done in "pornographer's colors". ;-)

Here's a good example:
http://www.cornishwebservices.co.uk/pages/colour_blind.shtml

 

[Andrew Thompson]

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:11:55 -0400, Bryce wrote:

(problem pages)

Here's a good example:
http://www.cornishwebservices.co.uk/pages/colour_blind.shtml

...and for the 'color saturated' that might be..
<http://colorfilter.wickline.org/?a=...ebservices.co.uk/pages/colour_blind.shtml;t=m>

Interestingly, even playing with the
'Color Blindness' options at the top,
I would not have suspected the header
"This header is virtually unreadable for some people"
was a problem for anyone..

 

[Bryce]

Interestingly, even playing with the
'Color Blindness' options at the top,
I would not have suspected the header
"This header is virtually unreadable for some people"
was a problem for anyone..

That is strange, because I can read it even on the original..

What give me problems are bullet text on the brown background, and the
purple text on the blue background

 

[Andrew Thompson]

What give me problems are bullet text on the brown background, and the
purple text on the blue background

Good.

Actually.. *not* good that you have problems
with them, ..good that I could *guess* they might
be a problem from looking at the original page.
[ ..besides, they are *horrid* color combos!
Monochrome is an improvement, aesthetically. ;-) ]