Roundup of FAQ change requests

Discussion in 'Javascript' started by Richard Cornford, Dec 6, 2004.

  1. For the last couple of months I have been trying to get the next round
    of updates to the FAQ underway and been being thwarted by a heavy
    workload (the project I am working on has to be finished an QA tested
    for a new year release. I don't think that going to prove practical, but
    there is no harm in trying :) and some serious family commitments. But
    it has to be done soon so this is stage one.

    Mike Winter provided an extensive list of suggestions for grammar
    changes for the FAQ, most of which I have incorporated in the next
    version (so the text has changed a lot in some places. The results of
    those changes are temporarily at:-

    <URL: http://www.litotes.demon.co.uk/js_info/FAQ8_1_Draft.html >

    The latest version of the notes is at:-

    <URL: http://www.litotes.demon.co.uk/js_info/faq_notes/faq_notes.html >

    (lots of minor corrections but only one significant new page (three more
    are under construction but I am unlikely to finish more than one of them
    before the next versions is published on jibbering.com).

    I have been trying to respond to all of the FAQ change requests listed
    below but I haven't had time to finish (and I must sleep now). I will
    try to comment on/respond to the remaining items during the week.

    As usual comments, feed-back, corrections, additional requests and
    suggestions are welcome. (additional request are most likely to be acted
    upon if they are fairly concrete, particularly in terms of proposed
    wording and tested script examples).



    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4057818b.357791577%40news.individual.net"
    From="Jim Ley"
    Subject="Re: Why JavaScript doesn't have sleep?!!"
    Date="2004-03-16 14:40:33 PST">

    >The Subject says its all.
    >Most of computer languages and script
    >languages have sleep function, except JavaScript.


    An event driven programming paradigm is ideal for User Interfaces,
    since the web is basically a user interface (in that it's something a
    user interacts wth and not just performs calculations) then the most
    logical paradigm is the event driven one.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event-driven_programming

    (might be worth a <FAQ**TRY> )
    </QUOTE>

    I have made some changes to the text of Quick answer 4.20 to
    (at least partly) address this, and added the wikipedia link
    to its MOREINFO section.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1tbhnwAmJ0oBFwai%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: How to verify an email address"
    Date="2004-11-23 10:29:47 PST">


    ISTM that it would be good to have an entry on RegExps for
    validation. Is the FAQ still being updated?
    </QUOTE>

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=FWU9c.93%24B_1.37%40newsfe1-gui.server.ntli.net"
    From="Andrew Urquhart"
    Subject="Re: focus and select"
    Date="2004-03-29 04:50:52 PST">

    .... . You could try:
    http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/js-date4.htm#VID although I'm surprised to
    see that there isn't a dedicated <FAQ**TRY> on validating dates.
    </QUOTE>

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=OQm%244fAa5JqAFwbN%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: javascript to display current date (and back dates)"
    Date="2004-05-17 10:39:10 PST">


    function LZ(x) { return (x<0||x>=10?"":"0") + x }
    <snip>

    IMHO, typing would be saved if LZ were in the FAQ.

    </QUOTE>
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=MrPPmFAC9yVBFwVm%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Appending Date/Time Stamp to filename"
    Date="2004-09-26 15:23:03 PST">

    For leading zeroes AND separators, use <FAQ**TRY>

    function LZ(x) { return (x<0||x>=10?"":"0") + x }

    </QUOTE>
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=yekQbjBjaXWBFw4%24%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: adding 2 times together"
    Date="2004-09-28 10:09:31 PST">

    Optimal LZ function needed!
    </QUOTE>
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=40AB8B2B.4F31C60E%40nospam.com"
    From="Julie"
    Subject="Re: comp.lang.javascript FAQ - META - 8.0 - 2004-03-15"
    Date="2004-05-19 09:28:28 PST">

    > | CHARTER: comp.lang.javascript
    > |
    > | The proposed comp.lang.javascript will be open to discussion on all
    > | aspects of JavaScript, as it relates to HTML, Java, Perl, the World
    > | Wide Web in general, and other related languages. The scope of
    > | discussion will specifically exclude matters which are *solely*
    > | related to Sun Microsystems, Inc.'s Java language, which should be
    > | discussed in comp.lang.java.
    > |
    > | END CHARTER.

    <snip>
    Including the specific verbiage of the charter in the FAQ seems to me would be
    appropriate. After all, it is the charter that drives the newsgroup (and
    eventually appendices like the FAQ), not the other way around.
    </QUOTE>

    I don't see the charter as having much practical value, but opinion
    at the time seemed to be that it should be included so I have made
    a page for the notes reproducing the final CFV that included the
    charter and linked to it from section 2.2.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=FjbNkcBpiKrAFwAd%40merlyn.demon.co.uk
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: form validation"
    Date="2004-05-20 10:16:04 PST">

    <snip>
    The routine in FAQ 4.6 uses the proper arithmetic.

    Note : it was written on the presumption that, since M & N are numbers
    of places, generally supplied as literals, they would be positive. The
    case of M<=0 is equivalent to that of M=0, and may give a deprecated
    format; N=0 gives a deprecated but tolerable format, and N<0 gives a
    wrong value.


    <FAQ**TRY> in 4.6, after "successfully", insert ", for M>0, N>0" - or
    such other adjustment as appeals.</FAQ**TRY>
    </QUOTE>

    Done.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=%24P%2BD%24dFrYHuAFw8V%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: Body hidden, but table borders still visible."
    Date="2004-05-29 07:28:50 PST">

    <snip>
    Edition 1 of the Pocket Flanagan has "return", just where and as it
    should be. Admittedly it is not indexed; but there is no index in the
    Pocket. I presume, therefore, that "return" can readily be found in the
    full Flanagan. The present edition is the 4th; the 3rd was 790 pages.

    <FAQ**TRY> Add book pagecounts? Pocket 1st Edn is ~ 96pp.
    </FAQ**TRY>

    </QUOTE>

    I don't see the number of pages in a book as having much relevance to
    the value of that book, but I will include the information if there is
    support for the idea (and someone tells me the page counts for the
    editions that the FAQ does recommend.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cal0p102982%40news1.newsguy.com"
    From="Matt Kruse"
    Subject="Re: open.window reloads parent window"
    Date="2004-06-14 13:50:17 PST">
    <snip>
    So in your situation, you would want to do:
    <a href="#" onClick="window.open(...);return false;">

    That way, the onClick will always return false no matter what, and the "#"
    href will never be navigated to.

    Now, an important note:
    Using "#" as your href url can be misleading, because it will simply cause a
    reload in many browsers. Also, for users without js enabled, it will do
    nothing and give no useful information. A better way to do it is
    <a href="/note_about_javascript_being_required.html" onClick="...;return
    false;">
    That way, non-js users will at least be taken to a page which informs them
    of why the link didn't work as expected.

    <FAQ**TRY> because I expected to see this covered in more detail in the FAQ
    but it wasn't... such a common problem should be addressed a little better
    in the FAQ, IMO.
    </FAQ**TRY>
    </QUOTE>
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=lZZlKwCA5gzAFwH2%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: desperate need for help with browser settings"
    Date="2004-06-14 15:34:33 PST">

    <snip>
    He suggested changing URIs all the time; if you to read the FAQ, cited
    in his signature & posted here today, searching for the word URI, you
    would find the information that you need, which is not the information
    that you want.

    <FAQ**TRY>

    In that section, s/date/time/, s/of/or/ #2.

    Perhaps it should be "URI used to request the page", rather than "URI of
    the page".

    </FAQ**TRY>
    </QUOTE>

    Done, at least for date/time, 'of' was removed by Mike's suggested
    grammar changes.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=McI%24bcEd701AFwyb%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton ()"
    Subject="Re: <DIV>tag in netscape? but works in IE (see code)"
    Date="2004-06-21 16:10:19 PST">

    In section 4.22, "between" should be "in the range" or
    similar. Between 1 & 3 there is only 2.

    </QUOTE>

    Done.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8kKz1AEDMsABFw7e%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: HTML or Javascript or PHP solution: Textarea with Dynamic Width"
    Date="2004-07-24 15:26:46 PST">
    <snip>
    <FAQ**TRY> Don't post merely to criticise spelling.

    INFO: While this is not an HTML group, javascript can write HTML. The
    combination of all three of MSIE4, dates YYYY-MM-DD, and justification
    can lead to undesirable character spacing. YYYY/MM/DD is OK.
    </FAQ**TRY>
    </QUOTE>

    I don't want to do this. It probably goes without saying that
    criticising spelling is a bit of a waste of time, but I also enjoy
    the irony of the unfortunate truth that any post gratuitously
    criticising spelling will include at least one spelling mistake,
    typo or obvious grammar flaw and so only serve to make its originator
    appear ridiculous.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4000378.estkDNKM41%40PointedEars.de"
    From="Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn"
    Subject="Re: String replace alternative"
    Date="2004-08-06 16:14:41 PST">
    <snip>
    Please do not write attribution novels, see
    <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
    as referred to by the FAQ of this newsgroup
    <http://www.jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/pots1.htm>
    (see "Additional Reading") and
    <FAQ**TRY>
    <http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post>
    </FAQ**TRY>

    </QUOTE>
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=0fMBbpANO2FBFwxr%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: how to add 2 values: nb.value and n=2"
    Date="2004-08-09 10:16:40 PST">

    Section "2.3 What do I have to do before posting to clj?" is aimed
    largely at the enquirer.

    ISTM that it would be useful to divide it, like Gaul, into three sub-
    sections; the first applying to all articles, the second to initial
    questions, and the third to responses - splitting should be a mainly
    drag'n'drop edit.

    Then to the responses section could be added something expressing a
    preference for responses to be either tested or marked as untested.

    And to the common section a preference for code to be copy'n'pasted,
    rather than typed in, whenever possible.

    2.3 para 1, of -> with.
    </QUOTE>
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=BbWM6nAo4iGBFwvw%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: Calendar html page"
    Date="2004-08-11 10:07:49 PST">

    When posting code to news, it is the POSTER's duty to ensure that his
    system does not, by line-wrapping, break the code. Readers should not
    have to do this. <FAQ**TRY>

    </QUOTE>

    The notes already go into some detail on the why and how of this. As
    the point of the notes was to avoid bloating the FAQ proper by trying
    to include an inappropriate level of detail I would rather leave the
    FAQ as it is in this respect.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=IWNeJhCCQPHBFw2B%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: Help with the printdate()"
    Date="2004-08-13 10:27:12 PST">


    IMHO, 2.10 should be Multinationalisation. That is adjustment for
    different locales, whereas Internationalisation means using a single
    form acceptable everywhere. dependant -> dependent.

    It would be a good place to recommend, as an example, internationalising
    to ISO 8601.
    </QUOTE>

    I think this is a case where the formal meaning of words is at odds
    with how those words are employed.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=VcednRpZ4sb4Ba_cRVn-gA%40comcast.com"
    From="Randy Webb"
    Subject="FAQ Questions"
    Date="2004-08-29 20:00:53 PST">

    And in http://jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ4_43, any chance of adding a snippet
    about this bookmarklet:

    javascript:'<code><ol><li>'+(document.documentElement||document.body).
    outerHTML.replace(/&/g,"&amp;").replace(/</g,"&lt;").
    replace(/%20%20/g,"&nbsp;%20").replace(/\n/g,"<li>")+'<\/ol><\/code>';

    I don't recall who wrote it, but it gives you the source of the
    document, with line numbers, to make debugging in IE a lot simpler.

    </QUOTE>

    I started writing this up, including some variations such as this
    frameset version:-

    javascript:(function(frm){
    frm.__outHTMLDate ='<html><head><title>'+
    (frm.document.title||frm.location.href)+
    '</title></head><body><code><ol><li>'+
    frm.document.documentElement.innerHTML.
    replace(/&/g,"&amp;").
    replace(/</g,"&lt;").
    replace(/%20%20/g,"&nbsp;%20").
    replace(/\n/g,"<li>")+
    '</ol></code></body></html>';
    frm.open('javascript:eek:pener.__outHTMLDate','');
    for(var c = frm.frames.length;c--;){
    try(){
    arguments.callee(frm.frames[c]);
    }catch(e){;}
    }
    })(top);

    - with the idea of adding it to the miscellaneous tricks and tips
    page. But I have already written what could be a page of its own
    on javascript URLs useful for web development, so I will include
    it as a separate page when it is finished.

    Everyone is welcome to submit other proposals for inclusion
    (preferably with some explanation of how your examples work).

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4140c70c%240%2432725%24626a14ce%40news.free.fr"
    From="Yann-Erwan Perio"
    Subject="Re: Browser Height in IE? NOT document height"
    Date"2004-09-09 14:11:41 PST">

    In 4_9 the variable redefinition in the different branchs is misleading,
    variable definitions occur once, when execution scopes are created,
    their initialization come later within the corresponding statement
    execution (Ecma-263-12.2).
    </QUOTE>

    Done.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=yc5vzjd1v1wl%24.nt8k0zov2j9u%24.dlg%4040tude.net"
    From="Andrew Thompson"
    Subject="Top warning signs of bad code?"
    Date="2004-09-19 16:44:04 PST">

    It seems most people get there JS off web sites, which is
    entirely logical. But it is also a great pity since most
    of that code is of such poor quality.

    I was looking through the JS FAQ for any question that
    identifies the warning signs to look out for, the things
    that most easily and clearly identify the author of code
    as something less than a master of the art.

    I did not find an FAQ that answered it, but I think the FAQ
    should contain the info., so, here is my proposed list..

    <FAQ**TRY class='more_Speculative_For_Discussion_OK?'>
    1 <SCRIPT LANGUAGE='JavaScript'> // last millenium, or another reality?
    2 if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("IE")) // #FAQ4_26
    3 eval(); // #FAQ4_40 (usually)
    4 if (..==true) // !understanding boolean.
    5 <a href="javascript:somefunction()"> // #FAQ4_24
    6 <NOSCRIPT> // If missing, the script does not degrade gracefully.
    7 document.write("<p>Important content.."); // delivering content.
    </FAQ**TRY>

    What is your opinion? Are these the top 7?
    Which 28 did I miss?

    Also, why does the FAQ not contain the words "degrade",
    "graceful" or "noscript" (I guess I might have been
    looking for the wrong term with the first two, but
    no mention of NOSCRIPT? That surprised me.)

    BTW - The Jibbering JS FAQ is the single greatest FAQ*
    I use, but I just have a hankerin' to get mentioned in
    it, or at least contribute to it. ;-)

    * I have my own (fledgling) Java FAQ that I hope might
    approach the quality of the JS FAQ one day, and am a
    contributor to the recently expanded and improved
    c.i.w.a.s. FAQ.
    </QUOTE>

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8MGz%24XJiZXUBFwJv%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: Have a Javascript that keeps a cookie on a popup"
    Date="2004-09-22 10:08:53 PST">


    The FAQ index has nothing general on cookies. Sec 4.4 should be
    generalised :


    4.4 Why and how are cookies used ?

    Cookies are used to maintain information either during ... or for a
    longer definable period. Users often do not allow them.

    To test whether the present browser accepts cookies, write
    a cookie, read it back and check whether it is the same.

    For example cookie code, see ...

    http://tech.irt.org/articles/js064/index.htm
    Additional Notes:
    http://www.jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/cookies.html
    </QUOTE>


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=jC0Uc%24HasaYBFwbb%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton ()
    Subject="Re: Date problem"
    Date="2004-10-04 15:18:23 PST">

    You should have something like

    str = LZ( d.getMonth()+1 ) + '/' + LZ( d.getDate() ) + '/' ;

    <FAQ**TRY> Change date3 to date2

    Always, modularise out common or repeated functions, and test them
    independently.

    </QUOTE>

    Done.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=ehtrEpI%24kqYBFweg%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: Email Script"
    Date="2004-10-05 10:25:43 PST">

    This question, too, should be a <FAQ**TRY>, to point out that mailto:...
    can only work on systems with an appropriately-configured browser-mailer
    interface (and that not all of those can do Subject).

    Moreover, the person who wants to send mail is not necessarily the
    person who "owns" the browser.

    Therefore, there should always be a means of giving the E-mail address
    independently of mailto:.

    One should never say that mailto: does not work; for many users, it
    demonstrably does work.
    </QUOTE>


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=CpksWXKcXSZBFw1o%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: Date problem"
    Date="2004-10-07 10:49:42 PST">

    <FAQ**TRY> The string "tutor" appears only once. If any more good
    tutorials are known, it would be well to link to them with wording which
    a search for "tutor" would find.
    </QUOTE>

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=m5ilyqCl8QhBFwwX%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: strange error"
    Date="2004-10-31 10:45:16 PST">

    FAQ 4.12 needs a link to FAQ 4.21

    </QUOTE>
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=k3OFx1EYZPiBFw5X%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: How to build a reference to a global variable"
    Date="2004-11-03 10:21:51 PST">

    ECMA 327

    </QUOTE>

    Done. Maybe I should mention ECMA 357 as well (for completeness, as I don't think any implementations exist yet), but I
    had better read it first.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=41B09624.EA19E9A2%40agricoreunited.com"
    From="Grant Wagner">

    Any reference to a URL prefixed with:

    <url: http://devedge.netscape.com/library/manuals/2000/javascript/1.3/reference />

    should be replaced with

    <url: http://docs.sun.com/source/816-6408-10 />

    I believe that will result in all links working.
    </QUOTE>

    I was hoping someone would take over the devedge content (Mozilla.org has been mentioned in that context quite a bit
    recently) so I could fix all the dead links to it in the FAQ. I assume that Sun have in fact been reproducing the
    JavaScript docs for some time.

    It didn't quite work to just substitute the beginning of the URL for Sun's as Sun have changed the .html extensions that
    Netscape used for .htm extensions, but that done and all the links are working again.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=M2MfRdHoLOsBFwcp%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton">

    Aside: <FAQ**TRY> That is not found by a search for "Shuffle" - I
    suggest changing to "How to Deal and Shuffle" </FAQ**TRY>
    </QUOTE>

    Done.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    <QUOTE
    From="Jim Ley">
    How's the FAQ updating going?

    I was wondering if:

    http://jan.kollhof.net/projects/js/oopjs/index.xhtml

    would be worth including aswell.

    </QUOTE>
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    <QUOTE
    From="Jim Ley">

    Someone also mentioned including PPK's quirksmode.org in 3.2.

    </QUOTE>

    When <URL: http://www.quirksmode.org > is a page that says: "Unfortunately your browser does not support the JavaScript
    necessary for the advanced interface." (while using IE 6?) I become resistant to the idea of recommending it to others.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    <QUOTE
    cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cJBrO%2BH%24TBUBFwti%40merlyn.demon.co.uk"
    From="Dr John Stockton"
    Subject="Re: item not defined using Mozilla?"
    Date="2004-09-21 10:08:44 PST">

    Present Usenet thinking encourages proper attributions; see Usefor work-
    in-progress at
    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-useage-00.txt
    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-article-13.txt


    An informative attribution would have made it clear that the idiot
    savant child Lahn is, once more, contributing to an ancient thread.
    <snip>
    The FAQ should cite the above, or successor, documents; and perhaps also
    that in sig line 2, which is so widely useful.
    </QUOTE>

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    <QUOTE
    From="Dr John Stockton">

    <snip>
    In page cookies.html :

    ISTM that, while the code now presented will not error if "cookie" ->
    "ignore", it will not read/write cookies either.
    ISTM that substitution of .cookie to .ignore could be prevented by,
    basically,
    var DC = "document.coo"+"kie"
    or var DC = "eikooc.tnemucod".split('').reverse().join('')
    function GetCooks() { return eval(DC) }
    function PutCooks(S) { eval(DC + "=" + S) }



    I suggest that you cite, in FAQ or notes,
    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-article-13.txt
    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-useage-00.txt
    which represent current thinking about News articles. It might make
    Thomas Lahn see sense, or at least moderate his behaviour.


    The FAQ cites one news:microsoft.* group; but ISTM that Sec 2.7 should
    cite news:microsoft.public.scripting.jscript
    and news:microsoft.public.scripting.wsh

    It could be useful to cite also a newsgroup that deals with Web servers
    as such.
    </QUOTE>

    I have added the two URLs to the end of the page on posting to the
    group. I don't think that have a place in the FAQ proper
    until/unless they are formally adopted.

    Thoms Lahn's obsession with aspects of posts to the group that are
    apparently considered insignificant/irrelevant to everyone else has
    resulted in numerous requests for the FAQ to be changed in a way
    that discourages him. I really don't like the idea of making changes
    to the FAQ for this reason alone, but expressed popular opinion is
    in favour of some action in this direction.

    So I have added to the following paragraph to section 2.3:-

    <DRAFT>
    Don't expect to be able to e-mail contributors to the group privately.
    Stated originating e-mail addresses are often obscured, fictional or
    unmonitored span sinks (this is an increasingly normal (and even
    unofficially recommended) practice as open e-mail addresses in news
    articles will be both the target of spam and used as fake sender's
    addresses in spam to third parties).
    <\DRAFT>

    In the hope of undermining some of the comments on From addresses.
    And added the following to the page on posting to the group:-

    <DRAFT>
    Attribution

    Material that is quoted is expected to be accurately attributed to
    its author in some way. As responses should quote sufficient of the
    text to which they are responding to provide a context for the
    response, responses must also contain the attribution of that
    quoted material.

    Styles of attribution may vary considerably. The exact information
    contained, and the text in which it is contained, is largely up to
    the judgement of the individual posting (so long as the information
    is accurate and the text non-inflammatory). A minimum attribution
    should attempt to identify the individual who wrote the text that
    is being responded to:-

    John Smith wrote:
    > Message text ...


    Other styles include more information about the preceding message:-

    On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:44:52 +1000,
    John Smith <> wrote:
    > Message text ...


    Including the time of the original message and the e-mail address
    of its sender (as extracted from the From header (so not
    necessarily his real e-mail address).

    A more elaborate attribution may include the Message-ID,
    Newsgroups, etc.

    In article <>,
    dated Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:44:52, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript,
    John Smith <> posted :
    > Message text ...


    This information content originates in the message headers and might
    be regarded as of little interest to individuals using news reader
    software and having a local copy of the original message, as they
    can directly view that message in full and extract any information
    they need from those headers. In those circumstances a more verbose
    header might be regarded as, at best, providing quicker access to
    some of the information they may be interested in; quickly observing,
    for example, the list of groups to which a message may have been
    cross-posted, or the date of a message that is getting a response
    some significant time after it was originally posted.

    However, news servers and newsreaders do not store messages
    indefinitely, and message access is not away via those mechanisms.
    Web based access may not reproduce message headers in full, and
    massages may be quoted in other contexts (even in isolation) without
    their headers. A more detailed attribution may allow the reader of
    such a message to use the various newsgroup archives to reconstruct
    the context of the original message; using, for example, a cited
    Message-Id to locate the thread containing the original message, or
    a date to see that an opinion expressed is too historic to be
    considered definitive in a contemporary context.

    On the other hand, attributions should not become excessive. Personal
    judgement probably being a reasonable guide as to what should be
    considered excessive. Reproducing all of the headers from the message
    that is being quoted would certainly be excessive; headers such as
    Path and References are potentially large to start with, and of
    little value along side Message-Id, and reproducing headers such as
    User-Agent, NNTP-Posting-Host, X-Complaints-To,
    Content-Transfer-Encoding and Content-Type are just going to consume
    bandwidth without providing much potential return.

    It may be observed that an attributed quote will often be included
    in an attributed quote that follows it up. Resulting in attributed
    conversations. Much as quoted text should be trimmed to preserve only
    the information required for context, quoted attributions may be
    trimmed, once nested, to keep the attribution accurate but avoid
    repeating information. For example, A more verbose attribution that
    includes a newsgroup list, nested inside an attribution that
    contains that same newsgroup list, is wasting bandwidth to no
    purpose. The inner attributions might be stripped of that list
    because its presence in an outermost attribution would probably
    provide all the information necessary. Similarly, in a conversation
    happening over a limited time period the exact date and time of
    each contribution is probably excessive, as the time of any on
    (probably the latest) message should adequately provide historical
    context and be sufficient for archive retrieval (though including
    dates to indicate significant intervals in conversations might be
    considered informative).

    While the text that surrounds any informational content of an
    attribution may be a matter of judgement on the part of the
    individual creating it (so long as the attribution is accurate),
    content that is intended to be humorous or ironic may not be
    perceived as such in the international context of
    comp.lang.javascript, and text that is irrelevantly verbose may
    not be perceived as appropriate in a group with an exclusively
    technical subject. Such attribution styles may provoke an
    unexpectedly negative attitude in other contributors to the group
    and should be given due consideration prior to their use;
    attribution texts that are short and to the point are unlikely to
    elicit any reaction at all.
    <\DRAFT>

    - which includes specific examples of attributions that Lahn would
    categorise as novels (regardless of the fact that his complaint
    apparently hangs on a very literal interpretations of the word
    'line') And generally leaves attributions up to the judgement of
    the individual (within reason).

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    <QUOTE
    From="Dr John Stockton">

    BTW, I'd find FAQ section 3.2 better (in HTML) as <ul> ... </ul>.

    </QUOTE>
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Richard.
     
    Richard Cornford, Dec 6, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. JRS: In article <cp0f4m$lc8$1$>, dated Mon, 6
    Dec 2004 02:11:32, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Richard Cornford
    <> posted :
    >For the last couple of months I have been trying to get the next round
    >of updates to the FAQ underway
    > ...



    ><QUOTE
    >cite="http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4000378.estkDNKM41%40PointedEars.de"
    >From="Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn"
    >Subject="Re: String replace alternative"
    >Date="2004-08-06 16:14:41 PST">
    ><snip>
    >Please do not write attribution novels, see
    ><http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
    >as referred to by the FAQ of this newsgroup


    It should be removed from the FAQ/notes. On such matters, the FAQ
    should rely only on recognised international standards.



    >IMHO, 2.10 should be Multinationalisation. That is adjustment for
    >different locales, whereas Internationalisation means using a single
    >form acceptable everywhere. dependant -> dependent.


    >I think this is a case where the formal meaning of words is at odds
    >with how those words are employed.


    One should not pander to the semi-illiterate. It is much better to use
    (with a correct description) a single standard form world-wide than to
    attempt to adapt for local preferences. Remember what Fred Hoyle wrote!




    >I suggest that you cite, in FAQ or notes,
    > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-article-13.txt
    > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-usefor-useage-00.txt
    >which represent current thinking about News articles. It might make
    >Thomas Lahn see sense, or at least moderate his behaviour.




    >Styles of attribution may vary considerably. The exact information
    >contained, and the text in which it is contained, is largely up to
    >the judgement of the individual posting (so long as the information
    >is accurate and the text non-inflammatory). A minimum attribution
    >should attempt to identify the individual who wrote the text that
    >is being responded to:-
    >
    >John Smith wrote:
    >> Message text ...



    No, one should not suggest less than USEFOR says. The USEFOR documents
    are not yet authoritative, but their authors are more expert on the
    subject than all of us put together. The personal name is not enough;
    I've seen two apparently-distinct just-"Lee"s here , and others equally
    entitles to be called that.


    Timo - see below - *is* a reliable authority, though.




    Updating the FAQ is evidently a major exercise. How about replacing one
    of the duplicate weekly postings with a "Draft Changes" section, in
    plain text to enable easy editing?

    --
    © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME ©
    Web <URL:http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html> -> Timo Salmi: Usenet Q&A.
    Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm> : about usage of News.
    No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.
     
    Dr John Stockton, Dec 6, 2004
    #2
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  3. On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 02:11:32 -0000, Richard Cornford
    <> wrote:

    [snip]

    > <URL: http://www.litotes.demon.co.uk/js_info/FAQ8_1_Draft.html >


    Section 2.3, last paragraph, last sentence: delete the first "often".

    [snip]

    > As usual comments, feed-back, corrections, additional requests and
    > suggestions are welcome. (additional request are most likely to be acted
    > upon if they are fairly concrete, particularly in terms of proposed
    > wording and tested script examples).


    The only additional content I'm considering is regarding hash tables. Do
    they warrant an entry in the FAQ or the notes?

    I've made something of a hybrid from a hash table implementation of yours
    that's closer to the one provided in java.util.Hashtable. The biggest
    difference being the ability to add any number of unique keys which
    produce the same value with String(key). Another is that Iterators (rather
    than Enumerations) do not allow concurrent modifications. If the
    underlying hash table is modified, any "active" iterators will report
    false from Iterator.hasNext() on subsequent calls.

    The current (unpolished and uncommented) version is at
    <URL:http://www.mlwinter.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/clj/hash.js>. However, I've
    had to rework major parts of it so expect bugs. Previously, the Element
    prototype had put, get and remove methods, but during a performance test
    with 1000 elements (some results are below) I found just how little
    tolerance IE and Firefox have for recursion.

    [snip]

    > ISTM that it would be good to have an entry on RegExps for validation.
    > Is the FAQ still being updated?
    > </QUOTE>


    I'm curious to know if Dr Stockton was refering to regular expressions in
    general, or e-mail address validation.

    [snip]

    > The FAQ index has nothing general on cookies.


    Is it really necessary, though? I'm sure there are plenty of adequate
    references to be found on the Web.

    > Sec 4.4 should be generalised :
    >
    > 4.4 Why and how are cookies used ?
    >
    > Cookies are used to maintain information either during ...


    "a session"?

    > or for a longer definable period. Users often do not allow them.


    Is that last statement accurate, or over-the-top. I think a warning that
    users do disallow cookies would be sufficient.

    [snip]

    > So I have added to the following paragraph to section 2.3:-
    >
    > <DRAFT>
    > Don't expect to be able to e-mail contributors to the group privately.
    > Stated originating e-mail addresses are often obscured, fictional or
    > [...]


    I think the first two words are unnecessary and complicate the sentence. I
    think

    E-mail addresses are often obscured...

    would be better.

    [snip]

    > Web based access may not reproduce message headers in full, and massages
    > may be quoted [...]


    Massages?

    [snip]

    Mike


    Time to add 1000 elements Obtaining 1000th element
    Opera: 844ms 1.375ms
    IE6: 515ms 0.985ms
    Firefox: 296ms 0.547ms

    Executing toString Updating 1000th element
    Opera: 743.7ms 1.750ms
    IE6: 484.3ms 1.078ms
    Firefox: 339.1ms 0.672ms

    Removing 1000th element[1]
    Opera: 1.733ms
    IE6: 1.125ms
    Firefox: 0.781ms

    [1] After every removal, the element was replaced. I subtracted the time
    obtained in the fourth test (updating the 1000th element) to try to negate
    the extra operations the replacement would involve.

    --
    Michael Winter
    Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.
     
    Michael Winter, Dec 6, 2004
    #3
  4. JRS: In article <opsilrs6aax13kvk@atlantis>, dated Mon, 6 Dec 2004
    20:09:15, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Michael Winter <M.Winter@bl
    ueyonder.co.invalid> posted :
    >On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 02:11:32 -0000, Richard Cornford
    ><> wrote:


    >> ISTM that it would be good to have an entry on RegExps for validation.
    >> Is the FAQ still being updated?
    >> </QUOTE>

    >
    >I'm curious to know if Dr Stockton was refering to regular expressions in
    >general, or e-mail address validation.


    The article had Subject="Re: How to verify an email address". There is
    far more to say about RegExps than would fit properly into the FAQ, even
    far more about RegExps for address validation. But ISTM that a Q on
    RegExps could use address validation as an example, or a Q on validation
    would introduce RegExps.

    In either case, it would provide a location for a link or two on
    RegExps, including the useful reference which is probably at
    http://docs.sun.com/source/816-6408-10/regexp.htm
    give or take case of letters; and for an indication that a check such as
    /^.+@.+\..+$/ is useful whereas a full check against RFCs and known TLDs
    is perhaps overdoing it.


    >[snip]
    >
    >> The FAQ index has nothing general on cookies.

    >
    >Is it really necessary, though? I'm sure there are plenty of adequate
    >references to be found on the Web.


    Yes, and plenty of bad ones too, and there might even be javascripted
    sites calculating bakery. A mention in the FAQ is a chance to add a
    good link or two.

    For any sub-topic of [Web] javascript that is frequently discussed,
    there should be an entry in the FAQ findable by searching for the
    obvious keyword, even if it only gives a link. The topic may then
    cease to be frequently discussed.



    >> Sec 4.4 should be generalised :
    >>
    >> 4.4 Why and how are cookies used ?
    >>
    >> Cookies are used to maintain information either during ...

    >
    >"a session"?
    >
    >> or for a longer definable period. Users often do not allow them.

    >
    >Is that last statement accurate, or over-the-top. I think a warning that
    >users do disallow cookies would be sufficient.


    "sometimes"?




    >> Stated originating e-mail addresses are often obscured, fictional or
    >> [...]


    > I think the first two words are unnecessary and complicate the
    > sentence.


    Moreover, it's the effective Reply-To which matters, not the originator.

    --
    © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Delphi 3 Turnpike 4 ©
    <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> TP/BP/Delphi/&c., FAQqy topics & links;
    <URL:http://www.bancoems.com/CompLangPascalDelphiMisc-MiniFAQ.htm> clpdmFAQ;
    <URL:http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html> news:borland.* Guidelines
     
    Dr John Stockton, Dec 6, 2004
    #4
  5. On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:09:15 GMT, Michael Winter
    <> wrote:

    [snip]

    > The only additional content I'm considering is regarding hash tables.


    Lies!

    I've mentioned a couple of times now the difference between arrays and
    objects with regard to square bracket notation. Specifically:

    This method of property look-up also applies to arrays, too, but arrays
    treat numbers specially. If the string can be converted to a number, then
    back to a string and still match the original value exactly, it is
    considered to be an array index not a property. So:

    '10' -> 10 -> '10' '10' array index
    '05' -> 5 -> '5' '05' property name
    'fg' -> NaN -> 'NaN' 'fg' property name

    With objects, numbers are just property names, nothing more.

    Should that be mentioned (in some form) somewhere in the Notes article?

    [snip]

    Mike

    --
    Michael Winter
    Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.
     
    Michael Winter, Dec 7, 2004
    #5
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