Ruby in the Real World™

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by John, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. John

    John Guest

    I am as enthusiastic about Ruby as the next programmer, but I have been
    discouraged in the corporate world so far. I've been able to use Ruby
    to whip up impressively fast multithreaded web crawlers, data
    processing scripts, and other little tools for myself... but overall it
    seems like people just don't want to let it gain any sort of foothold
    in the "real world."

    Has anybody been able to use Ruby in an important system in their
    organization? A real integral system? Maybe Ruby on Rails for a
    corporate web site or store?
    John, Aug 23, 2005
    #1
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  2. John

    Bil Kleb Guest

    Bil Kleb, Aug 23, 2005
    #2
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  3. John

    Alex Nedelcu Guest

    Hi John,

    I am also a beginner in Ruby. And I am going to be honest with you.
    Ruby is not that popular. There aren't many enterprises and programers
    that are interested in Ruby.

    Companies are interested in things prooven, things that just work.
    Platforms like Java. And no matter how productive Ruby or how many
    predictions you hear from David Hansson (Ruby on Raills inventor), Ruby
    doesn't have an industrial strength VM and it doesn't have tools (and
    somehow I doubt that YARV is going to make it).

    Of course, in time it will have have tools and a good VM if the
    community stays focused.
    And, furthermore, if you compare it with Perl and Python and PHP, it's
    the language with the least design flaws.

    Oh yes, it's a beautifull language that makes us productive and it does
    have a future. You concernes are justified, but Ruby is one of those
    languages that change the way you think. And it does have a future.
    Alex Nedelcu, Aug 23, 2005
    #3
  4. John

    Phil Tomson Guest

    Re: Re: Ruby in the Real World™

    In article <>,
    Alex Nedelcu <> wrote:
    >Hi John,
    >
    >I am also a beginner in Ruby. And I am going to be honest with you.
    >Ruby is not that popular. There aren't many enterprises and programers
    >that are interested in Ruby.


    Ummmm... I would have said the same thing 4.5 years ago when I started
    using Ruby... But now it actually seems to me that Ruby is making huge
    inroads and is gaining lots of mindshare - mostly due to Rails at this
    point.

    Just look at some of the recent events that point to Ruby's rise in
    popularity:
    * DHH wins best hacker award for Rails (remember Rails is written in Ruby)
    * Ruby talks at OSCON are well attended (anecdote: I went downtown to a
    restaurant near where OSCON was being held and ran into a couple of guys
    who were wearing OSCON badges. I asked them what they were into and they
    said Perl [one of them was giving a Perl talk, even]. they asked what I
    was into and I said Ruby and the one giving the Perl talk said something
    like "if I didn't have to use Perl at work I'd be using Ruby!" and then
    proceeded to tell the other guy how great Ruby is)
    * The first Rails book seems to be a big seller (what, 7 or 8 thousand in
    about a month?)
    * lots more newbies here on clr lately
    * Ruby on CodeZoo
    * ActiveState making noises about Ruby support

    .... lots more I'm sure.


    >
    >Companies are interested in things prooven, things that just work.
    >Platforms like Java. And no matter how productive Ruby or how many
    >predictions you hear from David Hansson (Ruby on Raills inventor), Ruby
    >doesn't have an industrial strength VM and it doesn't have tools (and
    >somehow I doubt that YARV is going to make it).


    Why so pessimistic? YARV seems to be making steady progress. You can
    already run 1.9 with YARV (to some extent).

    >
    >Of course, in time it will have have tools and a good VM if the
    >community stays focused.
    >And, furthermore, if you compare it with Perl and Python and PHP, it's
    >the language with the least design flaws.
    >
    >Oh yes, it's a beautifull language that makes us productive and it does
    >have a future. You concernes are justified, but Ruby is one of those
    >languages that change the way you think. And it does have a future.
    >


    definitely, the future actually looks very bright.


    Phil
    Phil Tomson, Aug 23, 2005
    #4
  5. John

    gregarican Guest

    Alex Nedelcu wrote:

    > I am also a beginner in Ruby. And I am going to be honest with you.
    > Ruby is not that popular. There aren't many enterprises and programers
    > that are interested in Ruby.


    In the Western world Ruby isn't one of the most visible language,
    granted. But I have read that in Asia (esp. Japan) it's more popular
    than either Perl or Python. I do think that there are increasingly more
    and more programmers interested in Ruby. Especially since Rails will
    help boost Ruby's visibility.

    Perhaps there are not many enterprise level corporate entities looking
    to have Ruby replace their entire toolset. But some are likely looking
    to add Ruby to their environment in one capacity or another. I have for
    the smaller company I work for, as indicated on some of the pages
    mentioned in this thread.

    In terms of commercial applications I don't see native Ruby code having
    much impact outside of smaller open source projects. Since it's a
    scripting language it would be (next to) technically impossible to have
    it closed source unless there was some super-secret compiler used to
    eliminate the source code.
    gregarican, Aug 23, 2005
    #5
  6. John

    Alex Nedelcu Guest

    Yes, it is definitelly winning mindshare. And of course it's Rails
    fault. Web programming matters most right now. But it will take some
    time before it is accepted.

    IMHO, one step to it would be for the Ruby comunity to have better
    debuging tools and to implement bridges for interoperability with
    java/.net. PHP gained a lot of credibility with the Zend Platform (not
    that I actually heard of someone using it, but still, you know it is
    available if you need it).
    Alex Nedelcu, Aug 23, 2005
    #6
  7. John

    John Guest

    Alex Nedelcu wrote:
    > Yes, it is definitelly winning mindshare. And of course it's Rails
    > fault. Web programming matters most right now. But it will take some
    > time before it is accepted.


    Yeah, it seems that for most of the l33t h4x0rs that do know about
    Ruby, they only know "Ruby" as 1/3 of the title of "Ruby on Rails." I
    am far more interested in the numerous other applications of Ruby
    (distributed computing, rapid development, straight CGI, and WEBrick
    itself) than Ruby on Rails. While it is great, and I did spend the 5
    minutes it takes to learn it, I want to see Ruby as an option for
    things beyond web applications in the business world.

    Sticking with Microsoft languages and IDEs doesn't make anybody's life
    any better, except for the night school IT grads.
    John, Aug 23, 2005
    #7
  8. Hello,

    the situation of Ruby reminds me somehow of Smalltalk earlier. You
    always had to reason why you were using Smalltalk and not C++, which
    was a bit tedious. Then came Java ... I don't understand why former
    Smalltalk vendors and all those people that made good money with
    selling Smalltalk systems don't jump onto Ruby now and make use of its
    momentum. There are still no competitiors around and so it's just the
    right time to jump into the Ruby market. With the use of eclipse it
    would't be that hard to develop a very nice IDE for Ruby. Without a
    decent IDE many people wouldn't look at it seriously. I know that many
    former Smalltalk people look at Ruby as a replacement for their
    Smalltalk that has almost disappeared. But without a decent IDE with a
    class hierarchy browser it's not fun and fun is what it is about to a
    large extent when using dynamically typed languages.

    Regads, Oliver
    Oliver Plohmann, Aug 24, 2005
    #8
  9. John

    Alex Nedelcu Guest

    Hi Oliver,
    Java practically had no competition. Because no matter how you look at
    it, it is not right to tie the IDE to the platform. Also, multiple
    incompatible implementations, and the portabilitty in Smaltalk that was
    just bogus (before Java portability was a joke). And the fact that
    Smaltalk is too dynamic. That hasn't looked to well at the time, and
    things haven't changed much.
    And if something replaces Ruby, it will be a better Ruby, because right
    now it's more about the joy of programming with Ruby, and not the
    money.
    Just my oppinion.
    Alex Nedelcu, Aug 24, 2005
    #9
  10. John

    Trans Guest

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