Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

Discussion in 'Python' started by Gary Nutbeam, Mar 3, 2005.

  1. Gary Nutbeam

    Gary Nutbeam Guest

    I've noticed that the Perl camp has a very nice web/database environment
    called Maypole. Ruby has the Rails environment which on the surface seems
    similar to Maypole. I can't find anything in Python that ties a database
    to a web interface anywhere near as well as Ruby on Rails or Maypole.

    I see the behemoth Zope having the best web/database integration, but
    unfortunately I don't want to spent weeks writing xml for the interface.

    Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?

    Thanks.
     
    Gary Nutbeam, Mar 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. Gary Nutbeam

    deelan Guest

    Gary Nutbeam wrote:
    (...)
    > Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?


    you may want to take a look at subway:
    <http://subway.python-hosting.com/>

    it glues together cherrypy2, sqlobject
    and cheetah using an MVC approach.

    HTH,
    deelan.
     
    deelan, Mar 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. Gary Nutbeam

    Gary Nutbeam Guest

    Two out of three on the home made approach I was thinking about.

    Quixote, Cheetah and SQLObject.

    Thanks for the link. I'm perusing it now.

    deelan wrote:

    > Gary Nutbeam wrote:
    > (...)
    >> Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?

    >
    > you may want to take a look at subway:
    > <http://subway.python-hosting.com/>
    >
    > it glues together cherrypy2, sqlobject
    > and cheetah using an MVC approach.
    >
    > HTH,
    > deelan.
     
    Gary Nutbeam, Mar 3, 2005
    #3
  4. Gary Nutbeam

    D H Guest

    Gary Nutbeam wrote:

    > I've noticed that the Perl camp has a very nice web/database environment
    > called Maypole. Ruby has the Rails environment which on the surface seems
    > similar to Maypole. I can't find anything in Python that ties a database
    > to a web interface anywhere near as well as Ruby on Rails or Maypole.
    >
    > I see the behemoth Zope having the best web/database integration, but
    > unfortunately I don't want to spent weeks writing xml for the interface.
    >
    > Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?



    Check out Castle on Rails for .NET/Mono. It is still in early
    development, but you can use it with C#, VB, or boo, and I'm sure
    eventually with IronPython as well.
     
    D H, Mar 3, 2005
    #4
  5. Gary Nutbeam a écrit :
    > I've noticed that the Perl camp has a very nice web/database environment
    > called Maypole. Ruby has the Rails environment which on the surface seems
    > similar to Maypole. I can't find anything in Python that ties a database
    > to a web interface anywhere near as well as Ruby on Rails or Maypole.
    >
    > I see the behemoth Zope having the best web/database integration, but
    > unfortunately I don't want to spent weeks writing xml for the interface.


    Is this a troll ? I wrote several Zope apps, and I don't remember having
    written a single ligne of xml. Unless you count ZPT for XML ?
     
    Bruno Desthuilliers, Mar 3, 2005
    #5
  6. Gary Nutbeam

    Gary Nutbeam Guest

    I count zpt as xml because page templates can operate in html or xml mode.
    This is not a troll. It is a lot of work in Zope to create interfaces to
    relational data for anything more than simple data models.

    It's a lot less work in Maypole or Rails, but I don't want to go back to
    writing in Perl, or needing to learn Ruby.

    I do like Formulator but the documentation on it is weak. I don't want to
    have to go rooting around in the source code or spending hours on weeding
    through mailing lists for answers. I still have to screw around and glue
    formulator to the data with python, zpt, and zsql methods. Archetypes seems
    a lot closer to a fix, but there are problems with SQLStorage representing
    anything more than simple relationships reliably.

    It would be nice to have an object database that is ACID compliant.

    Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
    <snip>
    >
    > Is this a troll ? I wrote several Zope apps, and I don't remember having
    > written a single ligne of xml. Unless you count ZPT for XML ?
     
    Gary Nutbeam, Mar 3, 2005
    #6
  7. Gary Nutbeam

    Gary Nutbeam Guest

    Thanks for the feedback. I should have been more specific though and
    mentioned this has done on Linux (client and server).

    D H wrote:

    > Gary Nutbeam wrote:
    >
    >> I've noticed that the Perl camp has a very nice web/database environment
    >> called Maypole. Ruby has the Rails environment which on the surface seems
    >> similar to Maypole. I can't find anything in Python that ties a database
    >> to a web interface anywhere near as well as Ruby on Rails or Maypole.
    >>
    >> I see the behemoth Zope having the best web/database integration, but
    >> unfortunately I don't want to spent weeks writing xml for the interface.
    >>
    >> Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?

    >
    >
    > Check out Castle on Rails for .NET/Mono. It is still in early
    > development, but you can use it with C#, VB, or boo, and I'm sure
    > eventually with IronPython as well.
     
    Gary Nutbeam, Mar 3, 2005
    #7
  8. Gary Nutbeam

    Steve Holden Guest

    Gary Nutbeam wrote:
    > I count zpt as xml because page templates can operate in html or xml mode.
    > This is not a troll. It is a lot of work in Zope to create interfaces to
    > relational data for anything more than simple data models.
    >
    > It's a lot less work in Maypole or Rails, but I don't want to go back to
    > writing in Perl, or needing to learn Ruby.
    >
    > I do like Formulator but the documentation on it is weak. I don't want to
    > have to go rooting around in the source code or spending hours on weeding
    > through mailing lists for answers. I still have to screw around and glue
    > formulator to the data with python, zpt, and zsql methods. Archetypes seems
    > a lot closer to a fix, but there are problems with SQLStorage representing
    > anything more than simple relationships reliably.
    >
    > It would be nice to have an object database that is ACID compliant.
    >

    Have you looked at Caché? You can download a fully-functional version to
    play with, though it's got a fairly steep learning curve for
    non-relational use:

    http://www.intersystems.com/cache/
    InterSystems Caché: Post-relational Database

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Meet the Python developers and your c.l.py favorites March 23-25
    Come to PyCon DC 2005 http://www.pycon.org/
    Steve Holden http://www.holdenweb.com/
     
    Steve Holden, Mar 3, 2005
    #8
  9. Gary Nutbeam wrote:
    > I count zpt as xml because page templates can operate in html or xml mode.


    I can understand this, but from a practical POV, ZPT are mainly (x)html
    templates. A valid (x)html page is a valid ZPT too. This has nothing in
    common with the hundreds of complicated XML conf files needed by most
    J2EE app servers.

    > This is not a troll. It is a lot of work in Zope to create interfaces to
    > relational data for anything more than simple data models.
    >
    > It's a lot less work in Maypole or Rails,


    I've never worked with any of them, so I can't tell. It's also true that
    most of what I've done with Zope so far relies mostly on the ZODB, RDBMS
    connections being merely used as a bridge to share data with other
    systems. Still, I didn't have any problem with Zope/RDBMS integration so
    far.

    > but I don't want to go back to
    > writing in Perl,


    !-)

    > or needing to learn Ruby.


    A nice language, but yes, there can be practical reasons to stick with
    Python.

    (snip)

    --
    bruno desthuilliers
    ruby -e "print ''.split('@').collect{|p|
    p.split('.').collect{|w| w.reverse}.join('.')}.join('@')"
     
    bruno modulix, Mar 4, 2005
    #9
  10. Gary Nutbeam

    John J. Lee Guest

    Gary Nutbeam <> writes:
    > D H wrote:

    [...]
    > > Check out Castle on Rails for .NET/Mono. It is still in early
    > > development, but you can use it with C#, VB, or boo, and I'm sure
    > > eventually with IronPython as well.

    >
    > Thanks for the feedback. I should have been more specific though and
    > mentioned this has done on Linux (client and server).


    Mono runs on Linux.


    John
     
    John J. Lee, Mar 4, 2005
    #10
  11. Gary Nutbeam wrote:
    > needing to learn Ruby.


    But why wouldn't you just use Rails and learn Ruby in the process? The
    "effort" required to learn Ruby pales in comparisson to the advantages
    using Ruby on Rails might give you, imho.

    Ruby is an excellent language, not much different from Python with its
    own set of advantages and problems (I really mis python's white-space
    indentation for example, but that is fully compensated by Ruby's nice
    OOP features). With a book like "Programming Ruby" you would be up to
    speed in a few days.

    Rails gives you much more than a comparable set of Python libraries
    which are gobled together with sticky tape. It provides you not just
    with an superbly integrated and consistent set of components. Rails
    gives you:
    - (real) automation (take a look at scaffolding for quick prototyping)
    - terrific documentation (the videos are *not* a gimmick, for example)
    - an enthousiastic, supportive user community (that alone is an
    incredible help and time saver)

    have fun,

    Iwan
     
    Iwan van der Kleyn, Mar 5, 2005
    #11
  12. Gary Nutbeam

    Gary Nutbeam Guest

    John J. Lee wrote:
    I know mono runs on linux but I want nothing to do with it unless absolutely
    necessary.

    > Gary Nutbeam <> writes:
    >> D H wrote:

    > [...]
    >> > Check out Castle on Rails for .NET/Mono. It is still in early
    >> > development, but you can use it with C#, VB, or boo, and I'm sure
    >> > eventually with IronPython as well.

    >>
    >> Thanks for the feedback. I should have been more specific though and
    >> mentioned this has done on Linux (client and server).

    >
    > Mono runs on Linux.
    >
    >
    > John
     
    Gary Nutbeam, Mar 7, 2005
    #12
  13. Gary Nutbeam

    Gary Nutbeam Guest

    Learning Ruby to use Rails is tempting.

    Iwan van der Kleyn wrote:

    > Gary Nutbeam wrote:
    >> needing to learn Ruby.

    >
    > But why wouldn't you just use Rails and learn Ruby in the process? The
    > "effort" required to learn Ruby pales in comparisson to the advantages
    > using Ruby on Rails might give you, imho.
    >
    > Ruby is an excellent language, not much different from Python with its
    > own set of advantages and problems (I really mis python's white-space
    > indentation for example, but that is fully compensated by Ruby's nice
    > OOP features). With a book like "Programming Ruby" you would be up to
    > speed in a few days.
    >
    > Rails gives you much more than a comparable set of Python libraries
    > which are gobled together with sticky tape. It provides you not just
    > with an superbly integrated and consistent set of components. Rails
    > gives you:
    > - (real) automation (take a look at scaffolding for quick prototyping)
    > - terrific documentation (the videos are *not* a gimmick, for example)
    > - an enthousiastic, supportive user community (that alone is an
    > incredible help and time saver)
    >
    > have fun,
    >
    > Iwan
     
    Gary Nutbeam, Mar 7, 2005
    #13
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