Ruby on the Smalltalk VM?

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Vincent Foley, Apr 25, 2005.

  1. Hi all,

    I just wanted to know if somebody had informations concerning the post
    made by a guy (Peter Suk?) about implementing Ruby on top of a
    Smalltalk VM? Is there a project page? A mailing list? I would
    really like to know, because as far as languages go, I prefer Ruby, but
    the whole Smalltalk environment is just the best thing I've used. I
    would like to know if that project just sort of died out after a rather
    interesting discussion or if there is actual development.

    Thanks,

    Vincent
     
    Vincent Foley, Apr 25, 2005
    #1
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  2. ma, 2005-04-25 kello 08:34, Vincent Foley kirjoitti:
    > Hi all,
    >
    > I just wanted to know if somebody had informations concerning the post
    > made by a guy (Peter Suk?) about implementing Ruby on top of a
    > Smalltalk VM? Is there a project page? A mailing list?


    http://www.alumina-vm.org/AluminaWiki/

    That seems to be the project page.
     
    Ilmari Heikkinen, Apr 25, 2005
    #2
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  3. Vincent Foley

    Peter Suk Guest

    On Apr 25, 2005, at 12:34 AM, Vincent Foley wrote:

    > Hi all,
    >
    > I just wanted to know if somebody had informations concerning the post
    > made by a guy (Peter Suk?) about implementing Ruby on top of a
    > Smalltalk VM? Is there a project page? A mailing list? I would
    > really like to know, because as far as languages go, I prefer Ruby, but
    > the whole Smalltalk environment is just the best thing I've used. I
    > would like to know if that project just sort of died out after a rather
    > interesting discussion or if there is actual development.


    Active development. We are currently working on a RubyParserInRuby,
    which seems quite close.
    Wiki: http://www.alumina-vm.org/AluminaWiki/ Not much up there, and
    it's a bit behind where we actually are.

    There is also a Rubyforge site, but not much on there yet.


    --Peter


    --
    There's neither heaven nor hell, save what we grant ourselves.
    There's neither fairness nor justice, save what we grant each other.
     
    Peter Suk, Apr 25, 2005
    #3
  4. Vincent Foley

    Peter Suk Guest

    On Apr 25, 2005, at 12:34 AM, Vincent Foley wrote:

    > Hi all,
    >
    > I just wanted to know if somebody had informations concerning the post
    > made by a guy (Peter Suk?) about implementing Ruby on top of a
    > Smalltalk VM? Is there a project page? A mailing list? I would
    > really like to know, because as far as languages go, I prefer Ruby, but
    > the whole Smalltalk environment is just the best thing I've used.


    Vincent,

    A major part of the motivation for this project is to have something
    like the Refactoring Browser, but Ruby style.

    (Incidentally, Refactoring in Ruby or any other environment that can
    dynamically alter its own configuration is always done on a *pragmatic*
    basis, since we can always code a counterexample to a Refactoring's
    validity that we can use to solve the Halting Problem. Left as an
    exercise for you sharp ones out there.)

    --Peter

    --
    There's neither heaven nor hell, save what we grant ourselves.
    There's neither fairness nor justice, save what we grant each other.
     
    Peter Suk, Apr 25, 2005
    #4
  5. Vincent Foley

    pat eyler Guest

    On 4/25/05, Peter Suk <> wrote:
    > Vincent,
    >
    > A major part of the motivation for this project is to have something
    > like the Refactoring Browser, but Ruby style.


    Are you aware of the Ruby Refactoring Browser?

    http://www.kmc.gr.jp/proj/rrb/index-en.html


    >
    > (Incidentally, Refactoring in Ruby or any other environment that can
    > dynamically alter its own configuration is always done on a *pragmatic*
    > basis, since we can always code a counterexample to a Refactoring's
    > validity that we can use to solve the Halting Problem. Left as an
    > exercise for you sharp ones out there.)
    >




    > --Peter
    >
    > --
    > There's neither heaven nor hell, save what we grant ourselves.
    > There's neither fairness nor justice, save what we grant each other.
    >
    >



    --
    thanks,
    -pate
    -------------------------
    We are often unable to tell people what they need to know, because
    they want to know something else, and would therefore only
    misunderstand what we said
    - the Raven (George MacDonald, Lilith)
     
    pat eyler, Apr 25, 2005
    #5
  6. Vincent Foley

    Curt Hibbs Guest

    pat eyler wrote:
    > On 4/25/05, Peter Suk <> wrote:
    >
    >>Vincent,
    >>
    >>A major part of the motivation for this project is to have something
    >>like the Refactoring Browser, but Ruby style.

    >
    >
    > Are you aware of the Ruby Refactoring Browser?
    >
    > http://www.kmc.gr.jp/proj/rrb/index-en.html


    This initial effort was quite laudable, but the project seems to have
    been abandoned, and its not particularly useful in its current state.

    Curt
     
    Curt Hibbs, Apr 25, 2005
    #6
  7. Re: Ruby Refactoring [Was:] Ruby on the Smalltalk VM? -

    Hello Curt,
    >>>A major part of the motivation for this project is to have something
    >>>like the Refactoring Browser, but Ruby style.

    >>
    >>
    >> Are you aware of the Ruby Refactoring Browser?
    >>
    >> http://www.kmc.gr.jp/proj/rrb/index-en.html


    CH> This initial effort was quite laudable, but the project seems to have
    CH> been abandoned, and its not particularly useful in its current state.

    Yes. It would be nice if the maintainer could write a few lines if the
    project was abandoned because of a lack of time or if he run into some
    to difficult to solve problems.

    I've put Mr. OHBAYASHI Ippei into the BCC field of this reply and therefore
    changed the subject of the message.


    --
    Best regards, emailto: scholz at scriptolutions dot com
    Lothar Scholz http://www.ruby-ide.com
    CTO Scriptolutions Ruby, PHP, Python IDE 's
     
    Lothar Scholz, Apr 26, 2005
    #7
  8. Vincent Foley

    Peter Suk Guest

    On Apr 25, 2005, at 5:29 PM, Curt Hibbs wrote:

    > pat eyler wrote:
    >> On 4/25/05, Peter Suk <> wrote:
    >>> Vincent,
    >>>
    >>> A major part of the motivation for this project is to have something
    >>> like the Refactoring Browser, but Ruby style.

    >> Are you aware of the Ruby Refactoring Browser?
    >> http://www.kmc.gr.jp/proj/rrb/index-en.html

    >
    > This initial effort was quite laudable, but the project seems to have
    > been abandoned, and its not particularly useful in its current state.


    Whereas the Smalltalk Refactoring Browser is extremely powerful, and
    prompts people like Kent Beck to say that it allows them to refactor an
    order of magnitude faster which in turn allows an entirely new style of
    programming which would otherwise be impractical.

    Current Refactoring tools in Ruby are hampered by obstructed access to
    the meta-level. (Which is good in Ruby, but not quite up to the level
    of Smalltalk or Lisp.) Also needed is an easy to use syntax-directed
    transformation engine -- this is the true heart of the Smalltalk
    Refactoring Browser.

    This is one of my original motivations for putting Ruby on top of a
    Smalltalk-like meta-Ruby layer. For this, you need something like the
    Smalltalk VM, which has no syntax and very little meta-level semantics
    built into it. As a result, almost the entire meta-level will be
    ordinary Ruby objects, as fully extendable by a Ruby programmer in Ruby
    as an ordinary piece of application code.

    --Peter


    --
    There's neither heaven nor hell, save what we grant ourselves.
    There's neither fairness nor justice, save what we grant each other.
     
    Peter Suk, Apr 26, 2005
    #8
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