Saved web pages disappear?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by MikeyMuchos, Oct 4, 2006.

  1. MikeyMuchos

    MikeyMuchos Guest

    Hi,
    I've noticed several times before, that some web pages saved locally
    into a directory will at some later date disappear leaving only an
    empty "*_files" folder. This seems to happen most frequently after a
    system restore, even if the files have been archived on another drive.

    Recently I've been saving some building materials prices info for a job
    I'm planning. When this disappeared it was quite a loss of time and
    effort. Please can anyone tell me what's happening here and how to keep
    these pages intact?

    TIA
    Mike
     
    MikeyMuchos, Oct 4, 2006
    #1
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  2. MikeyMuchos

    Andy Dingley Guest

    MikeyMuchos wrote:

    > some web pages saved locally into a directory will at some later date
    > disappear leaving only an empty "*_files" folder.


    When Chuck Norris saves web pages, they stay saved.

    What are you using to store yours? Have you considered upgrading to
    Chuck Norris?
    If you don't, you may be only seconds away from a fatal downloading
    experience.


    Seriously, "saved" web pages are those that are deliberately exported
    from some web user agent or other and they're placed into the
    filesystem where nothing else should ever touch them. If you're
    stretching the meaning of "saved" to mean "I noticed my browser was
    already caching them somewhere automatically" then this just isn't
    reliable. The browser doesn't know you've also taken an interest in
    them, so naturally it purges them after time because _it_ has finished
    with them.

    If you store them under some "temp" directory, then all bets are off.
    Put them somewhere you understand, where _you_ know where they are.

    I don't know what a "System Restore" is, but it sounds like some
    ghastly Windows feeature for updating to a fresh set of bugs. If
    they're involved, anything could happen. Nothing under those Windows
    "My Directory" paths can be trusted, because Windows is too fond of
    changing your identity and moving you to a whole clean new set. If you
    start looking from "C:\Documents and Settings\" though, you might find
    they're still there under another account name.
     
    Andy Dingley, Oct 4, 2006
    #2
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  3. MikeyMuchos

    MikeyMuchos Guest

    Andy Dingley wrote:

    > MikeyMuchos wrote:
    >
    > > some web pages saved locally into a directory will at some later date
    > > disappear leaving only an empty "*_files" folder.

    >
    > When Chuck Norris saves web pages, they stay saved.


    Is Chuck Norris Looking for a needy friend?

    > What are you using to store yours?

    I'm clicking on File>Save page as... in WinXP. A method that seems to
    works for the saving of other files, even HTML ones, until the
    mysterious disappearances take place.

    >Have you considered upgrading to Chuck Norris?


    Not until now. I'm sure my wife will be most enthusiastic though. That
    is unless Chuck is now as old, bald and decrepit as some of his
    contemporaries.


    > If you don't, you may be only seconds away from a fatal downloading experience.


    OK, I'll Chuck it.

    > Seriously, "saved" web pages are those that are deliberately exported
    > from some web user agent or other and they're placed into the
    > filesystem where nothing else should ever touch them. If you're
    > stretching the meaning of "saved" to mean "I noticed my browser was
    > already caching them somewhere automatically" then this just isn't
    > reliable. The browser doesn't know you've also taken an interest in
    > them, so naturally it purges them after time because _it_ has finished
    > with them.


    I see what you mean but I'm referring to a standard "File > Save"
    operation

    > If you store them under some "temp" directory, then all bets are off.
    > Put them somewhere you understand, where _you_ know where they are.


    I do, for instance: FileLib>Building>Heating>Boilers>Potterton

    > I don't know what a "System Restore" is, but it sounds like some
    > ghastly Windows feeature for updating to a fresh set of bugs.


    That's basically the one, except perhaps it's returning to an old set
    of bugs

    >If they're involved, anything could happen. Nothing under those Windows
    > "My Directory" paths can be trusted, because Windows is too fond of
    > changing your identity and moving you to a whole clean new set.


    Sounds most appealing, in many ways. I usually store files in
    directories within my own structured filing system. Seems to work fine
    for most items.

    >If you start looking from "C:\Documents and Settings\" though, you might find
    > they're still there under another account name.


    That sounds attractively Alice in Wonderland. If only computing had
    turned out to be so much fun.

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
    MikeyMuchos, Oct 4, 2006
    #3
  4. MikeyMuchos

    Andy Dingley Guest

    MikeyMuchos wrote:

    > > What are you using to store yours?

    > I'm clicking on File>Save page as... in WinXP.


    Sounds like you're using IE ?

    Suggestion: Get a better browser anyway (like Firefox)

    For one thing, IE won't even save pages accurately. It modifies them
    internally, changing doctypes and adding some bogus "saved from"
    metadata. This is extremely annoying if you're a web developer,
    because these changes can be enough to break a page. However M$oft's
    benevolent dictatorship decrees that they know best and we don't need
    to worry our fluffy little heads about these details...

    Sorry, I can't help you with your specific problem. I personally
    wouldn't trust IE further than I could drop-kick Steve Balmer (but I'm
    always up for a challenge).
     
    Andy Dingley, Oct 4, 2006
    #4
  5. MikeyMuchos

    Brian Cryer Guest

    "MikeyMuchos" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi,
    > I've noticed several times before, that some web pages saved locally
    > into a directory will at some later date disappear leaving only an
    > empty "*_files" folder. This seems to happen most frequently after a
    > system restore, even if the files have been archived on another drive.
    >
    > Recently I've been saving some building materials prices info for a job
    > I'm planning. When this disappeared it was quite a loss of time and
    > effort. Please can anyone tell me what's happening here and how to keep
    > these pages intact?


    I am not aware of any mechanism on Windows that will remove your saved web
    pages. I have saved web pages dating back to February this year, and other
    than when I do a tidy up I've never known them to disappear.

    What is the full path to where you are saving them? because if its a
    temporary folder then its possible that some process is tidying them up for
    you.

    Do you have any applications/utilities running that try to "spring-clean"
    your disk for you? (i.e. which try to delete old files to recover disk
    space?)

    On a different note, do you backup your pc? If you have files that are
    disappearing, and you know they've disappeared then you should be able to
    recover them from your backup. I backup my pc using three external usb
    disks, which I rotate once a week - simple and convenient, but it means I
    can only go back two weeks ...
    --
    Brian Cryer
    www.cryer.co.uk/brian
     
    Brian Cryer, Oct 4, 2006
    #5
  6. MikeyMuchos

    MikeyMuchos Guest

    Andy Dingley wrote:

    > MikeyMuchos wrote:
    >
    > > > What are you using to store yours?

    > > I'm clicking on File>Save page as... in WinXP.

    >
    > Sounds like you're using IE ?


    Only when there's no other option, which is rarely.
    > Suggestion: Get a better browser anyway (like Firefox)


    The problem of disappearing HTML files seems to happen regardless of
    the browser.

    > For one thing, IE won't even save pages accurately. It modifies them
    > internally, changing doctypes and adding some bogus "saved from"
    > metadata. This is extremely annoying if you're a web developer,
    > because these changes can be enough to break a page. However M$oft's
    > benevolent dictatorship decrees that they know best and we don't need
    > to worry our fluffy little heads about these details...


    It's not like the pages are duff or changed, they're just not there.
    Only the ghost of a *_files
    directory remains.

    > Sorry, I can't help you with your specific problem. I personally
    > wouldn't trust IE further than I could drop-kick Steve Balmer (but I'm
    > always up for a challenge).


    Steve Balmer may be quite keen on that sort of activity. If so, I hope
    you both have a great time. Thanks for the input, It's appreciated.

    Mike
     
    MikeyMuchos, Oct 4, 2006
    #6
  7. MikeyMuchos

    Andy Dingley Guest

    MikeyMuchos wrote:

    > The problem of disappearing HTML files seems to happen regardless of
    > the browser.


    So exactly where are you putting them? Sounds like its Windows that's
    garbage collecting them, rather than IE.
     
    Andy Dingley, Oct 4, 2006
    #7
  8. MikeyMuchos

    MikeyMuchos Guest

    Brian Cryer wrote:

    [...]
    > What is the full path to where you are saving them? because if its a
    > temporary folder then its possible that some process is tidying them up for
    > you.


    E:\FileLib\Building\Heating\Boilers
    is a typical example, where E: is a partition on the same drive as the
    system partition.
    Certainly no temp folders involved there. The disappearances have
    happened in several similar locations, so it's not confined to one
    directory.

    > Do you have any applications/utilities running that try to "spring-clean"
    > your disk for you? (i.e. which try to delete old files to recover disk
    > space?)


    I don't think anything like this is running by default and I don't use
    such extreme clean-up features knowingly. I can find nothing in the
    CCleaner config that indicates that this removal would occur.


    > On a different note, do you backup your pc? If you have files that are
    > disappearing, and you know they've disappeared then you should be able to
    > recover them from your backup. I backup my pc using three external usb
    > disks, which I rotate once a week - simple and convenient, but it means I
    > can only go back two weeks ...


    I do often back-up the system partition and the partition where I
    install programs. I haven't been backing up storage areas with quite
    the same frequency, but I'll have to start doing that now.

    Thanks for the advice,
    Mike
     
    MikeyMuchos, Oct 4, 2006
    #8
  9. MikeyMuchos

    MikeyMuchos Guest

    Andy Dingley wrote:

    > MikeyMuchos wrote:
    >
    > > The problem of disappearing HTML files seems to happen regardless of
    > > the browser.

    >
    > So exactly where are you putting them?


    In various user defined folders on a storage partition

    >Sounds like its Windows that's
    > garbage collecting them, rather than IE.


    Thanks
    I'll have to try a windows xp newsgroup with some questions on that.

    Thanks for the help.
    Mike
     
    MikeyMuchos, Oct 4, 2006
    #9
  10. MikeyMuchos

    Joy Guest

    "MikeyMuchos" <> graced us with the following in
    news::

    >
    > Andy Dingley wrote:
    >
    >> MikeyMuchos wrote:
    >>
    >> > The problem of disappearing HTML files seems to happen regardless of
    >> > the browser.

    >>
    >> So exactly where are you putting them?

    >
    > In various user defined folders on a storage partition
    >
    >>Sounds like its Windows that's
    >> garbage collecting them, rather than IE.

    >
    > Thanks
    > I'll have to try a windows xp newsgroup with some questions on that.
    >
    > Thanks for the help.
    > Mike
    >
    >


    Save them in a folder under "C:\" on your HD
    and rename the extension ".txt" and see what happens on a
    Windows Restore. You can always rename to .htm or .html

    Also use the "Save As" option from the file menu on your web browser.
    I always edit web pages with a text editor and then refresh the pages
    to see the difference whether editing a html or css ... etc.
     
    Joy, Oct 9, 2006
    #10
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