scada: killer app for ruby

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Peña, Botp, Mar 9, 2005.

  1. Peña, Botp

    Peña, Botp Guest

    Hi All,

    In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
    written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
    rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
    scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.

    I think ruby can bridge the gap bw the crude yet reliable plc and the
    ubiquitous but unreliable (windows) gui...

    kind regards -botp
    Peña, Botp, Mar 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:51:29 +0900, "Peña, Botp" <> wrote:
    > In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
    > written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
    > rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
    > scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.


    what is scada ?

    --
    Simon Strandgaard
    Simon Strandgaard, Mar 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. Peña, Botp

    Jason Sweat Guest

    On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:17:58 +0900, Simon Strandgaard <> wrote:
    > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:51:29 +0900, "Peña, Botp" <> wrote:
    > > In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
    > > written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
    > > rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
    > > scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.

    >
    > what is scada ?
    >
    > --
    > Simon Strandgaard


    From way back when I worked in Industrial Control, an achronym for:
    Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition.

    Basically a system to montor PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers,
    special purpose computers, usually wired up to machines in plants)
    that both capture data about what is happening on the system (from
    sensors wired to the PLC) and can send setpoint information to the
    PLCs (which they use via actuators again wired to the PLC). There
    usually is some PC software which displays all of this graphically.

    HTH

    Regards,
    Jason
    http://blog.casey-sweat.us/
    Jason Sweat, Mar 9, 2005
    #3
  4. Peña, Botp

    Paul Guest

    I wrote a pretty neat modbus simulator. I'll see if I can open source it
    It only works on windows right now, but ity will be simple to make it work on linux

    Paul

    Jason Sweat <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:17:58 +0900, Simon Strandgaard <> wrote:
    > > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:51:29 +0900, "Peña, Botp" <> wrote:
    > > > In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
    > > > written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
    > > > rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
    > > > scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.

    > >
    > > what is scada ?
    > >
    > > --
    > > Simon Strandgaard

    >
    > From way back when I worked in Industrial Control, an achronym for:
    > Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition.
    >
    > Basically a system to montor PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers,
    > special purpose computers, usually wired up to machines in plants)
    > that both capture data about what is happening on the system (from
    > sensors wired to the PLC) and can send setpoint information to the
    > PLCs (which they use via actuators again wired to the PLC). There
    > usually is some PC software which displays all of this graphically.
    >
    > HTH
    >
    > Regards,
    > Jason
    > http://blog.casey-sweat.us/
    Paul, Mar 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Peña, Botp

    Luke Graham Guest

    I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
    Customers want support more than anything, costs for
    a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
    cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
    The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
    the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
    anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
    Would you run your control systems on some kids
    part-time experiment?

    One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
    protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
    to work on the embedded end.


    On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:31:11 +0900, Jason Sweat <> wrote:
    > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:17:58 +0900, Simon Strandgaard <> wrote:
    > > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:51:29 +0900, "Peña, Botp" <> wrote:
    > > > In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
    > > > written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
    > > > rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
    > > > scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.

    > >
    > > what is scada ?
    > >
    > > --
    > > Simon Strandgaard

    >
    > From way back when I worked in Industrial Control, an achronym for:
    > Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition.
    >
    > Basically a system to montor PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers,
    > special purpose computers, usually wired up to machines in plants)
    > that both capture data about what is happening on the system (from
    > sensors wired to the PLC) and can send setpoint information to the
    > PLCs (which they use via actuators again wired to the PLC). There
    > usually is some PC software which displays all of this graphically.
    >
    > HTH
    >
    > Regards,
    > Jason
    > http://blog.casey-sweat.us/
    >
    >



    --
    spooq
    Luke Graham, Mar 9, 2005
    #5
  6. Peña, Botp

    jm Guest

    On 10/03/2005, at 10:41 AM, Luke Graham wrote:

    > I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
    > Customers want support more than anything, costs for
    > a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
    > cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
    > The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
    > the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
    > anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
    > Would you run your control systems on some kids
    > part-time experiment?
    >
    > One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
    > protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
    > to work on the embedded end.



    There is already some work in this area (non-ruby through).

    http://pvbrowser.org/pvbrowser/index.php

    From the web page (introduction section),

    SCADA

    SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) is a category of
    software application program for process control, the gathering of data
    in real time from remote locations in order to control equipment and
    conditions. SCADA is used in power plants as well as in oil and gas
    refining, telecommunications, transportation, and water and waste
    control.

    SCADA systems include hardware and software components. The hardware
    gathers and feeds data into a computer that has SCADA software
    installed. The computer then processes this data and presents it in a
    timely manner ( HMI ). SCADA also records and logs all events into a
    file stored on a hard disk or sends them to a printer. SCADA warns when
    conditions become hazardous by sounding alarms.

    ProcessViewBrowser

    The concept is similar to an internet browser. But it is intended for
    the use in industrial process visualization. It is based on Qt
    http://www.trolltech.com which is a platform independent GUI toolkit.
    ProcessViewBrowser is platform independent, because only posix calls
    and Qt are used. ProcessViewBrowser runs on Linux/Unix, OpenVMS and
    Windows. The browser can display nearly all standard Qt widgets
    (labels, buttons, editfields, comboboxes, ...) and other widgets for
    bmp images, diagram widgets for displaying xy-graphs, OpenGL and VTK.
    The widgets can be arranged on your masks. You can specify the position
    and size of the widgets.You can place one widget on top of another
    widget. I have seen many process visualization systems, which define
    their masks in the clients (I think this is not the right way to go).
    Instead of this, the masks in ProcessViewBrowser are defined in the
    appropriate process computer itself. The user can jump from one process
    computer to the other and see all masks. When masks are updated nothing
    has to be done in the clients.


    J.
    jm, Mar 10, 2005
    #6
  7. Peña, Botp

    Luke Graham Guest

    I look forward to being proved wrong.

    On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:42:53 +0900, jm <> wrote:
    >
    > On 10/03/2005, at 10:41 AM, Luke Graham wrote:
    >
    > > I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
    > > Customers want support more than anything, costs for
    > > a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
    > > cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
    > > The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
    > > the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
    > > anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
    > > Would you run your control systems on some kids
    > > part-time experiment?
    > >
    > > One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
    > > protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
    > > to work on the embedded end.

    >
    > There is already some work in this area (non-ruby through).
    >
    > http://pvbrowser.org/pvbrowser/index.php
    >
    > From the web page (introduction section),
    >
    > SCADA
    >
    > SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) is a category of
    > software application program for process control, the gathering of data
    > in real time from remote locations in order to control equipment and
    > conditions. SCADA is used in power plants as well as in oil and gas
    > refining, telecommunications, transportation, and water and waste
    > control.
    >
    > SCADA systems include hardware and software components. The hardware
    > gathers and feeds data into a computer that has SCADA software
    > installed. The computer then processes this data and presents it in a
    > timely manner ( HMI ). SCADA also records and logs all events into a
    > file stored on a hard disk or sends them to a printer. SCADA warns when
    > conditions become hazardous by sounding alarms.
    >
    > ProcessViewBrowser
    >
    > The concept is similar to an internet browser. But it is intended for
    > the use in industrial process visualization. It is based on Qt
    > http://www.trolltech.com which is a platform independent GUI toolkit.
    > ProcessViewBrowser is platform independent, because only posix calls
    > and Qt are used. ProcessViewBrowser runs on Linux/Unix, OpenVMS and
    > Windows. The browser can display nearly all standard Qt widgets
    > (labels, buttons, editfields, comboboxes, ...) and other widgets for
    > bmp images, diagram widgets for displaying xy-graphs, OpenGL and VTK.
    > The widgets can be arranged on your masks. You can specify the position
    > and size of the widgets.You can place one widget on top of another
    > widget. I have seen many process visualization systems, which define
    > their masks in the clients (I think this is not the right way to go).
    > Instead of this, the masks in ProcessViewBrowser are defined in the
    > appropriate process computer itself. The user can jump from one process
    > computer to the other and see all masks. When masks are updated nothing
    > has to be done in the clients.
    >
    >
    > J.
    >
    >



    --
    spooq
    Luke Graham, Mar 10, 2005
    #7
  8. Peña, Botp

    Tom Willis Guest

    On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:59:42 +0900, Luke Graham <> wrote:
    > I look forward to being proved wrong.
    >
    > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:42:53 +0900, jm <> wrote:
    > >
    > > On 10/03/2005, at 10:41 AM, Luke Graham wrote:
    > >
    > > > I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
    > > > Customers want support more than anything, costs for
    > > > a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
    > > > cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
    > > > The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
    > > > the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
    > > > anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
    > > > Would you run your control systems on some kids
    > > > part-time experiment?
    > > >
    > > > One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
    > > > protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
    > > > to work on the embedded end.

    > >
    > > There is already some work in this area (non-ruby through).
    > >
    > > http://pvbrowser.org/pvbrowser/index.php
    > >
    > > From the web page (introduction section),
    > >
    > > SCADA
    > >
    > > SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) is a category of
    > > software application program for process control, the gathering of data
    > > in real time from remote locations in order to control equipment and
    > > conditions. SCADA is used in power plants as well as in oil and gas
    > > refining, telecommunications, transportation, and water and waste
    > > control.
    > >
    > > SCADA systems include hardware and software components. The hardware
    > > gathers and feeds data into a computer that has SCADA software
    > > installed. The computer then processes this data and presents it in a
    > > timely manner ( HMI ). SCADA also records and logs all events into a
    > > file stored on a hard disk or sends them to a printer. SCADA warns when
    > > conditions become hazardous by sounding alarms.
    > >
    > > ProcessViewBrowser
    > >
    > > The concept is similar to an internet browser. But it is intended for
    > > the use in industrial process visualization. It is based on Qt
    > > http://www.trolltech.com which is a platform independent GUI toolkit.
    > > ProcessViewBrowser is platform independent, because only posix calls
    > > and Qt are used. ProcessViewBrowser runs on Linux/Unix, OpenVMS and
    > > Windows. The browser can display nearly all standard Qt widgets
    > > (labels, buttons, editfields, comboboxes, ...) and other widgets for
    > > bmp images, diagram widgets for displaying xy-graphs, OpenGL and VTK.
    > > The widgets can be arranged on your masks. You can specify the position
    > > and size of the widgets.You can place one widget on top of another
    > > widget. I have seen many process visualization systems, which define
    > > their masks in the clients (I think this is not the right way to go).
    > > Instead of this, the masks in ProcessViewBrowser are defined in the
    > > appropriate process computer itself. The user can jump from one process
    > > computer to the other and see all masks. When masks are updated nothing
    > > has to be done in the clients.
    > >
    > >
    > > J.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > --
    > spooq
    >
    >


    I had to integrate a shipping system written in vb6 with something
    like a SCADA system once. It was not fun. Most of the time was spent
    in integration it was impossible to test before hand, and due to the
    geniuses in sales, the schedule and deadline(week before xmas rush)
    left very little room for fixing errors.

    If I was asked to do it again under the same circumstances, I'd rather
    jump off a cliff.
    --
    Thomas G. Willis
    http://paperbackmusic.net
    Tom Willis, Mar 10, 2005
    #8
  9. Peña, Botp

    Luke Graham Guest

    On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:51:11 +0900, Tom Willis <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:59:42 +0900, Luke Graham <> wrote:
    > > I look forward to being proved wrong.
    > >
    > > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:42:53 +0900, jm <> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > On 10/03/2005, at 10:41 AM, Luke Graham wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > I think gnu scada systems are unlikely for a few reasons.
    > > > > Customers want support more than anything, costs for
    > > > > a broken scada can be calculated in wheelbarrows of
    > > > > cash per minute. Scada is boring. Scada is hard.
    > > > > The cost of integration can be more than the cost of
    > > > > the software anyway. Finally, anyone who knows
    > > > > anything about it is probably already doing it for a living.
    > > > > Would you run your control systems on some kids
    > > > > part-time experiment?
    > > > >
    > > > > One last thing.. ruby is fine for the windows end, all the
    > > > > protocols can be implemented.. but its just not going
    > > > > to work on the embedded end.
    > > >
    > > > There is already some work in this area (non-ruby through).
    > > >
    > > > http://pvbrowser.org/pvbrowser/index.php
    > > >
    > > > From the web page (introduction section),
    > > >
    > > > SCADA
    > > >
    > > > SCADA (supervisory control and data acquisition) is a category of
    > > > software application program for process control, the gathering of data
    > > > in real time from remote locations in order to control equipment and
    > > > conditions. SCADA is used in power plants as well as in oil and gas
    > > > refining, telecommunications, transportation, and water and waste
    > > > control.
    > > >
    > > > SCADA systems include hardware and software components. The hardware
    > > > gathers and feeds data into a computer that has SCADA software
    > > > installed. The computer then processes this data and presents it in a
    > > > timely manner ( HMI ). SCADA also records and logs all events into a
    > > > file stored on a hard disk or sends them to a printer. SCADA warns when
    > > > conditions become hazardous by sounding alarms.
    > > >
    > > > ProcessViewBrowser
    > > >
    > > > The concept is similar to an internet browser. But it is intended for
    > > > the use in industrial process visualization. It is based on Qt
    > > > http://www.trolltech.com which is a platform independent GUI toolkit.
    > > > ProcessViewBrowser is platform independent, because only posix calls
    > > > and Qt are used. ProcessViewBrowser runs on Linux/Unix, OpenVMS and
    > > > Windows. The browser can display nearly all standard Qt widgets
    > > > (labels, buttons, editfields, comboboxes, ...) and other widgets for
    > > > bmp images, diagram widgets for displaying xy-graphs, OpenGL and VTK.
    > > > The widgets can be arranged on your masks. You can specify the position
    > > > and size of the widgets.You can place one widget on top of another
    > > > widget. I have seen many process visualization systems, which define
    > > > their masks in the clients (I think this is not the right way to go).
    > > > Instead of this, the masks in ProcessViewBrowser are defined in the
    > > > appropriate process computer itself. The user can jump from one process
    > > > computer to the other and see all masks. When masks are updated nothing
    > > > has to be done in the clients.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > J.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > --
    > > spooq
    > >
    > >

    >
    > I had to integrate a shipping system written in vb6 with something
    > like a SCADA system once. It was not fun. Most of the time was spent
    > in integration it was impossible to test before hand, and due to the
    > geniuses in sales, the schedule and deadline(week before xmas rush)
    > left very little room for fixing errors.
    >
    > If I was asked to do it again under the same circumstances, I'd rather
    > jump off a cliff.


    This is what I mean when I say the integration is more costly than the
    software itself.

    --
    spooq
    Luke Graham, Mar 10, 2005
    #9
  10. Peña, Botp ha scritto:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > In searchning for scada systems on the net, i noticed that they are usually
    > written in c/c++/c# and most of the systems are proprietary (eg, citect,
    > rockwell) and worst, a lot are running in windows system. There are gnu
    > scada systems sprouting but are very very alpha.
    >
    > I think ruby can bridge the gap bw the crude yet reliable plc and the
    > ubiquitous but unreliable (windows) gui...
    >
    > kind regards -botp


    fwiw, today news:
    http://www.qt4lab.org/
    "Qt4Lab provides widget plugins and utilities for Rapid Application
    Prototyping and for developing SCADA application in the
    automotive/aerospace field.
    Widgets plugins are available for GNU/Linux and Windows NT/2000/XP."

    since qtruby seem to be a great framework, maybe this can be plugged in
    and found useful..
    gabriele renzi, Mar 10, 2005
    #10
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