screen resolutions

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Sebastian Sowa, Jul 3, 2003.

  1. Hello.

    Does anyone have good links to current (or older) statistics for surfer´s
    screen resolutions? Would be very helpful in a present discussion about
    mostly used configurations.
    Thanks in advance.

    Sebastian
    Sebastian Sowa, Jul 3, 2003
    #1
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  2. "Anthony Buckland" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >Evidently, some people think
    > resolution
    > does matter, or there wouldn't be a market for stats including
    > resolution.


    They are mistaken. There's a lot of mistaken people out there. Try not to follow
    them.

    > Why
    > shouldn't resolution matter, and why should knowing resolutions be thought
    > useless?


    See my previous reply. Resolution doesn't matter, window size does, but you
    can't gather statistics about that. The best solution is to make web-pages that
    cope well whatever happens.

    --
    Andrew Davidson
    Andrew Davidson, Jul 3, 2003
    #2
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  3. In article <>, says...
    > Hywel Jenkins wrote:
    >
    > >In article <be1qke$oad$02$-online.com>,
    > >says...
    > >
    > >>Hello.
    > >>
    > >>Does anyone have good links to current (or older) statistics for surfer´s
    > >>screen resolutions? Would be very helpful in a present discussion about
    > >>mostly used configurations.
    > >>

    > >
    > >In terms of a web site, screen resolution shouldn't matter. In fact,
    > >knowing the user's resolution is useless.
    > >
    > >In the meantime, try http://www.thecounter.com/ - look for their global
    > >stats. page.
    > >

    > Thanks for that pointer, I wanted to find out too. In May, more or less
    > evenly split
    > between 800 by 600 and 1024 by 768, with almost trivial usage of some other
    > resolutions. I test my own stuff at those two resolutions for
    > appearance, and it's
    > good to know that that's adequate today. Evidently, some people think
    > resolution
    > does matter, or there wouldn't be a market for stats including
    > resolution. Why
    > shouldn't resolution matter, and why should knowing resolutions be thought
    > useless? If a page layout includes images of specified dimensions,
    > then resolution
    > is going to matter with respect to how the images will be placed, how
    > much room
    > they will take up relative to text, column width and page width, whether
    > images
    > will be in the same column as text about them, and whether or not the
    > page will be
    > displayed all at once on a single screen.
    >

    That's the misleading assumption that new developers make. For example,
    my resolution is 1600z1200. Currently, my browser has about 500w x
    1000h of me screen area. I also have toolbars that eat in to the
    available desktop space. Knowing my resolution won't help you place
    images so that your design looks nice - that's why we have fluid designs
    which are, fortunately, becoming more popular.

    --
    Hywel Never knowingly understood
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/mfaq.php
    Hywel Jenkins, Jul 3, 2003
    #3
  4. Sebastian Sowa

    Davmagic com Guest


    >From:
    >(Sebastian Sowa)
    >Hello.
    >Does anyone have good links to current
    >(or older) statistics for surfer´s screen
    >resolutions?


    http://www.thecounter.com

    Web Design-Magic-Painting-Junking-Games
    INFO 2000 For You
    http://www.davmagic.com
    Davmagic com, Jul 3, 2003
    #4
  5. "Sebastian Sowa" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:be1qke$oad$02$-online.com...
    > Hello.
    >
    > Does anyone have good links to current (or older) statistics for surfer´s
    > screen resolutions? Would be very helpful in a present discussion about
    > mostly used configurations.
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > Sebastian
    >
    >
    >


    Thanks a lot. I currently try to fit webpages to nearly all resolutions (as
    long as this is my measurement on proper screen-size fixing).

    For that, 800x600 sets my basic requirement, what I wanted to get undergrid
    on statistics.

    Sebastian
    Sebastian Sowa, Jul 3, 2003
    #5
  6. Sebastian Sowa

    Richard Guest

    "Sebastian Sowa" <> wrote in message
    news:be1qke$oad$02$-online.com...
    > Hello.
    >
    > Does anyone have good links to current (or older) statistics for surfer´s
    > screen resolutions? Would be very helpful in a present discussion about
    > mostly used configurations.
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > Sebastian
    >
    >


    I try to design my pages at 1024x768 but leaving room in case some one uses
    800x600.
    I'd say since the advent of windows98, SR has been fairly standard at
    1024x768.
    The stats on my sites show this being true for the vast majority of
    visitors.
    What I don't like are the guys who insist upon cramming fine print on the
    page as much as possible, then on either side, and in the middle, diluge us
    with ads. That sucks.
    Richard, Jul 3, 2003
    #6
  7. While the city slept, Anthony Buckland <> feverishly
    typed:

    > Hywel Jenkins wrote:

    [screen resolution - bad idea but...]
    >> In the meantime, try http://www.thecounter.com/ - look for their
    >> global stats. page.

    > Evidently, some people think resolution does matter, or there
    > wouldn't be a market for stats including resolution.


    That is a free site. There is, therefore, no commercial market for those
    stats.

    As has been said by many others, screen resolution is completely irrelevant.
    You could be presented on a super-dooper monitor running at 1280x1024
    (though the browser window is probably far below that) or you could be
    running on a very expensive, top-of-the-range mobile phone running at
    whatever low resolution such things use... You should still be able to
    deliver your product to a respectable degree or your client is going to get
    a little cheesed off!

    Cheers,
    Nige

    --
    Nigel Moss.

    Email address is not valid. . Take the dog out!
    http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!! http://www.stopesso.com
    "They got the mustard out!"
    nice.guy.nige, Jul 4, 2003
    #7
  8. Sebastian Sowa

    P@tty Ayers Guest

    > Well, there's definitely a statistical correspondence between resolution and window-size, so knowing resolution stats can help a lot.

    Just to back this up a little - close to 100% of the non-geek users I've observed or asked maximize the browser window, right up to 1024 x 768 and beyond. They are almost all very surprised when I point out that there's any other option. My estimate is that the large majority of users have the browser window maximized, though usually with all browser toolbars visible and often with a browser sidebar open all the time.

    Just in case anybody misses the point, I agree wholeheartedly that web pages should be designed to look decent at just about any window size. I just refute this insistence that resolutions statistics are completely irrelevant - they're actually pretty helpful in getting a clue as to what users are probably seeing.

    --
    P@tty Ayers
    http://www.WebDevBiz.com
    Web Design Contract, Estimate Worksheet
    --
    P@tty Ayers, Jul 4, 2003
    #8
  9. Sebastian Sowa

    kchayka Guest

    P@tty Ayers wrote:

    >> Well, there's definitely a statistical correspondence between
    >> resolution and window-size, so knowing resolution stats can help a
    >> lot.


    Hmm, I use a higher than average resolution and usually window sizes
    smaller than 800x600, so knowing resolution helps in what way?

    > Just in case anybody misses the point, I agree wholeheartedly that
    > web pages should be designed to look decent at just about any window
    > size. I just refute this insistence that resolutions statistics are
    > completely irrelevant - they're actually pretty helpful in getting a
    > clue as to what users are probably seeing.


    And if the page adjusts gracefully with virtually any window size, then
    knowing resolution or window size helps in what way?

    --
    To email a reply, remove (dash)ns(dash). Mail sent to the ns
    address is automatically deleted and will not be read.
    kchayka, Jul 4, 2003
    #9
  10. "kchayka" <> wrote in message
    news:3f04c55f$...
    > P@tty Ayers wrote:
    >
    > >> Well, there's definitely a statistical correspondence between
    > >> resolution and window-size, so knowing resolution stats can help a
    > >> lot.

    >
    > Hmm, I use a higher than average resolution and usually window sizes
    > smaller than 800x600, so knowing resolution helps in what way?
    >
    > > Just in case anybody misses the point, I agree wholeheartedly that
    > > web pages should be designed to look decent at just about any window
    > > size. I just refute this insistence that resolutions statistics are
    > > completely irrelevant - they're actually pretty helpful in getting a
    > > clue as to what users are probably seeing.

    >
    > And if the page adjusts gracefully with virtually any window size, then
    > knowing resolution or window size helps in what way?
    >
    > --
    > To email a reply, remove (dash)ns(dash). Mail sent to the ns
    > address is automatically deleted and will not be read.


    Yes, because everyone at alt.html designs pages for you.

    Fact of a matter is 800x600 is a decent size to make pages to fit for.

    Generally, everyone that I've seen browse the Internet uses the full-sized
    window at either 800x600 or 1024x768. Unless they are doing stuff all
    together at once then they might make the window less than full-size.

    Typically, however, if somebody is going to go "browsing" the Internet, then
    they have probably only that immediate task in mind, and are not
    multi-tasking to a great extent (ie they are not also typing a document,
    designing a graphic, writing an email, creating spreadsheet graphs, etc at
    the same time).

    So, there.
    Anonymous Joe, Jul 4, 2003
    #10
  11. "P@tty Ayers" <> wrote in message
    news:ga3Na.228530$...
    > Well, there's definitely a statistical correspondence between resolution
    > and window-size


    Unproven. Your quoted experience may support the statement. My expeience refutes
    it. The statistics have nothing to say either way.

    > so knowing resolution stats can help a lot.


    No. It just helps you fixate on the irrelevant.

    > Just in case anybody misses the point, I agree wholeheartedly that web
    > pages should be designed to look decent at just about any window size.


    Glad to hear it. I agree wholeheartedly that black is black and white is white.

    > I just refute this insistence that resolutions statistics are completely

    irrelevant
    > they're actually pretty helpful in getting a clue as to what users are

    probably seeing.

    No. They just help to mislead newbies into believing it matters.

    Here's the facts.

    1. There is no intrinsic relationship between screen resolution and window
    size.
    2. There is no direct proprtion of viewable area to be deduced from a known
    window size.
    3. Thus, we cannot know what the user viewable area is.
    4. Thus, we must make web pages work regardless of viewable area (perhaps
    accepting that a minimum area could be mandated).
    5. Hence it is pointless to waste our time using unreliable techniques to
    gather irrelevant data in support of a foolish aim.

    --
    Andrew Davidson
    Andrew Davidson, Jul 4, 2003
    #11
  12. Sebastian Sowa

    P@tty Ayers Guest

    "kchayka" <> wrote in message news:3f04c55f$...
    > P@tty Ayers wrote:
    >
    > >> Well, there's definitely a statistical correspondence between
    > >> resolution and window-size, so knowing resolution stats can help a
    > >> lot.

    >
    > Hmm, I use a higher than average resolution and usually window sizes
    > smaller than 800x600, so knowing resolution helps in what way?


    So do I. But I'm not designing web sites for you or me, but for millions of ordinary users, who usually maximize the window, or at the very least take advantage of the screen real estate they have.

    > > Just in case anybody misses the point, I agree wholeheartedly that
    > > web pages should be designed to look decent at just about any window
    > > size. I just refute this insistence that resolutions statistics are
    > > completely irrelevant - they're actually pretty helpful in getting a
    > > clue as to what users are probably seeing.

    >
    > And if the page adjusts gracefully with virtually any window size, then
    > knowing resolution or window size helps in what way?


    I'd like to see a web site where all of the pages literally adjust gracefully to *any* window size. Pages almost always look somewhat better at one size than another, and so I spend more effort making my pages look good at more common sizes.


    --
    P@tty Ayers
    http://www.WebDevBiz.com
    Web Design Contract, Estimate Worksheet
    --
    P@tty Ayers, Jul 4, 2003
    #12
  13. Sebastian Sowa

    kchayka Guest

    Anonymous Joe wrote:

    > "kchayka" <> wrote in message
    > news:3f04c55f$...
    >> P@tty Ayers wrote:
    >>
    >> >> Well, there's definitely a statistical correspondence between
    >> >> resolution and window-size, so knowing resolution stats can help a
    >> >> lot.

    >>
    >> Hmm, I use a higher than average resolution and usually window sizes
    >> smaller than 800x600, so knowing resolution helps in what way?
    >>
    >> > Just in case anybody misses the point, I agree wholeheartedly that
    >> > web pages should be designed to look decent at just about any window
    >> > size. I just refute this insistence that resolutions statistics are
    >> > completely irrelevant - they're actually pretty helpful in getting a
    >> > clue as to what users are probably seeing.

    >>
    >> And if the page adjusts gracefully with virtually any window size, then
    >> knowing resolution or window size helps in what way?

    >
    > Yes, because everyone at alt.html designs pages for you.


    ?

    > Fact of a matter is 800x600 is a decent size to make pages to fit for.


    [snip other irrelevant stuff]

    You haven't answered the question. Let me put it another way:

    If a page adjusts well to both 400x300 and 1600x1200 window sizes, then
    it will also adjust well to other window sizes between these two,
    including 800x600, no? So, how does knowing screen resolution help in
    any way?

    --
    To email a reply, remove (dash)ns(dash). Mail sent to the ns
    address is automatically deleted and will not be read.
    kchayka, Jul 4, 2003
    #13
  14. Sebastian Sowa

    P@tty Ayers Guest

    "Andrew Davidson" <> wrote in message news:be2k02$i2q$...
    > "P@tty Ayers" <> wrote in message
    > news:ga3Na.228530$...
    > > Well, there's definitely a statistical correspondence between resolution
    > > and window-size

    >
    > Unproven. Your quoted experience may support the statement. My expeience refutes
    > it. The statistics have nothing to say either way.
    >
    > > so knowing resolution stats can help a lot.

    >
    > No. It just helps you fixate on the irrelevant.
    >
    > > Just in case anybody misses the point, I agree wholeheartedly that web
    > > pages should be designed to look decent at just about any window size.

    >
    > Glad to hear it. I agree wholeheartedly that black is black and white is white.
    >
    > > I just refute this insistence that resolutions statistics are completely

    > irrelevant
    > > they're actually pretty helpful in getting a clue as to what users are

    > probably seeing.
    >
    > No. They just help to mislead newbies into believing it matters.
    >
    > Here's the facts.
    >
    > 1. There is no intrinsic relationship between screen resolution and window
    > size.
    > 2. There is no direct proprtion of viewable area to be deduced from a known
    > window size.
    > 3. Thus, we cannot know what the user viewable area is.
    > 4. Thus, we must make web pages work regardless of viewable area (perhaps
    > accepting that a minimum area could be mandated).
    > 5. Hence it is pointless to waste our time using unreliable techniques to
    > gather irrelevant data in support of a foolish aim.
    >
    > --
    > Andrew Davidson


    Andrew, I respect your opinions but don't like the tone this is taking. I really don't like a heated debate on a subject that doesn't matter that much. I feel that resolution statistics are helpful; you feel they're useless. It's okay with me if we don't agree - hope it is with you.

    Happy 4th of July, if you're in American. Well, heck, happy 4th anyway.

    Best,

    Patty
    P@tty Ayers, Jul 4, 2003
    #14
  15. Sebastian Sowa

    P@tty Ayers Guest

    > If a page adjusts well to both 400x300 and 1600x1200 window sizes, then
    > it will also adjust well to other window sizes between these two,
    > including 800x600...


    I would really appreciate seeing a page that fits this description. :)

    Patty
    P@tty Ayers, Jul 4, 2003
    #15
  16. Sebastian Sowa

    Geoff Ball Guest

    Richard wrote:

    > "Sebastian Sowa" <> wrote in message
    > news:be1qke$oad$02$-online.com...


    >> Does anyone have good links to current (or older) statistics for surfers
    >> screen resolutions? Would be very helpful in a present discussion about


    > I try to design my pages at 1024x768 but leaving room in case some one
    > uses 800x600.


    What about those using higher screen resolutions? I use 1280x960, and
    sometimes even 1400x1050.

    > I'd say since the advent of windows98, SR has been fairly standard at
    > 1024x768.


    What about those using a non-Windows OS?

    Regards,
    Geoff

    --
    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Geoff_Ball
    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Web_Core_References
    Geoff Ball, Jul 4, 2003
    #16
  17. P@tty Ayers wrote:
    > I would really appreciate seeing a page that fits this description. :)

    http://w3.org/
    Leif K-Brooks, Jul 4, 2003
    #17
  18. P@tty Ayers wrote:

    > So do I. But I'm not designing web sites for you or me, but for millions of ordinary users, who usually maximize the window, or at the very least take advantage of the screen real estate they have.

    Then design pages for EVERYONE!
    > I'd like to see a web site where all of the pages literally adjust gracefully to *any* window size.

    http://w3.org/
    Leif K-Brooks, Jul 4, 2003
    #18
  19. In article <>, anom@anom says...
    > "Sebastian Sowa" <> wrote in message
    > news:be1qke$oad$02$-online.com...


    > > Does anyone have good links to current (or older) statistics for surfer´s
    > > screen resolutions?

    ....
    >
    > I try to design my pages at 1024x768 but leaving room in case some one uses

    ....
    > 1024x768.
    > The stats on my sites show this being true for the vast majority of

    ....
    I think there are a lot of people out there who design exclusively for
    1024x767 [1], gather stats with javascript, and then feel happily
    vindicated when their stats show that most of their visitors run at
    1024x768 with javascript enabled.

    Funny, that.

    [1] I know I snipped that says that you're a bit more flexible.
    Jacqui or (maybe) Pete, Jul 4, 2003
    #19
  20. Sebastian Sowa

    Blindsya Guest

    I have only ever found that resolution matters when building a site with
    frames. Even more reason not to make a frames site!
    Blindsya, Jul 4, 2003
    #20
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