Script in an IFRAME can not call functions defined in the parent document?

Discussion in 'Javascript' started by Dave Hammond, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. Dave Hammond

    Dave Hammond Guest

    In document "A.html" I have defined a function and within the document
    body have included an IFRAME element who's source is document "B.html".
    In document "B.html" I am trying to call the function defined in
    "A.html", but every attempt results in an "is not a function" error. I
    have tried to invoke the function using parent.document.funcname(),
    top.document.funcname(), and various other identifying methods, but all
    result in the above error. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!

    Example code, document "A.html":

    <script>
    function foo()
    {
    alert("foo!");
    }
    </script>
    ....
    <IFRAME src="B.html">No frames?</IFRAME>

    Example code, document "B.html":
    <script>
    parent.document.foo();
    // also tried... top.document.foo();
    </script>

    Thanks in advance!
    -Dave H.
    Dave Hammond, Jul 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. Dave Hammond

    Razzbar Guest

    Try putting the call to foo in the iframe's body.onload event, and call
    it with
    top.foo() or parent.foo()

    HTH
    Razzbar, Jul 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. Dave Hammond

    Dave Hammond Guest

    That worked, thanks! Actually I didn't even need to put it in the
    onload event; just calling it as top.foo() rather than
    top.document.foo() did the trick.

    Thanks very much for the quick response!!

    -Dave H.
    Dave Hammond, Jul 5, 2005
    #3
  4. Dave Hammond

    Ivo Guest

    "Dave Hammond" wrote
    >
    > parent.document.foo();
    > // also tried... top.document.foo();


    Functions are not properties of the document, but of the window.
    Try
    parent.foo();
    or
    top.foo();

    You may want to perform some checks first:
    if( parent.foo ) { // function exists, so go ahead
    parent.foo();
    }

    Still a nasty error may occur if the parent is not in the same domain as
    your iframe'd page, for example if your page is among Google Images results,
    it will be loaded in a frame with a different host, and accessing any
    property of parent will break the script, unless you wrap the code in a
    try/catch block. It is therefore usually safer to put your scripts in the
    top-document, and copy the necessary parts to the iframe onload.

    hth
    ivo
    http://4umi.com/web/javascript/
    Ivo, Jul 5, 2005
    #4
  5. Dave Hammond

    Razzbar Guest

    What's especially neat is that you can assign a new function to the top
    window from the iframe, then load another document in the iframe, and
    the top window's new function is still available.
    Razzbar, Jul 6, 2005
    #5
  6. Razzbar wrote:
    > What's especially neat is that you can assign a new function to the top
    > window from the iframe, then load another document in the iframe, and
    > the top window's new function is still available.


    If I'm right, I believe that's because functions are primitive data
    types in JS, like strings and numbers, so they're passed "by value" in
    all operations, and not by reference.

    So you're really ending up with a copy of the function, the same way
    you would end up with a copy of a string or a number.

    Granted, functions are *way* more useful to pass around this way than
    strings or numbers.
    Christopher J. Hahn, Jul 6, 2005
    #6
  7. Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    > Razzbar wrote:
    >> What's especially neat is that you can assign a new
    >> function to the top window from the iframe, then load
    >> another document in the iframe, and the top window's
    >> new function is still available.

    >
    > If I'm right, I believe that's because functions are
    > primitive data types in JS, like strings and numbers,


    Functions are object in javascript. And like all other objects they can
    have named properties added to them, and assigned values, at any time.

    > so they're passed "by value" in all operations, and
    > not by reference.

    <snip>

    Being objects they are passed by reference only.

    Richard.
    Richard Cornford, Jul 6, 2005
    #7
  8. Richard Cornford wrote:
    > Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    > > Razzbar wrote:
    > >> What's especially neat is that you can assign a new
    > >> function to the top window from the iframe, then load
    > >> another document in the iframe, and the top window's
    > >> new function is still available.

    > >
    > > If I'm right, I believe that's because functions are
    > > primitive data types in JS, like strings and numbers,

    >
    > Functions are object in javascript. And like all other objects they can
    > have named properties added to them, and assigned values, at any time.
    >
    > > so they're passed "by value" in all operations, and
    > > not by reference.

    > <snip>
    >
    > Being objects they are passed by reference only.
    >
    > Richard.


    Not to be argumentative, but if they are passed by reference only then
    could you explain why the referant isn't freed, causing an error in the
    case described by Razzbar?

    I've been too busy to actually test the case, mind you, but I'm fairly
    sure he's correct.
    Christopher J. Hahn, Jul 6, 2005
    #8
  9. Re: Script in an IFRAME can not call functions defined in the parentdocument?

    Christopher J. Hahn wrote:


    >>>Razzbar wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>What's especially neat is that you can assign a new
    >>>>function to the top window from the iframe, then load
    >>>>another document in the iframe, and the top window's
    >>>>new function is still available.


    > Not to be argumentative, but if they are passed by reference only then
    > could you explain why the referant isn't freed, causing an error in the
    > case described by Razzbar?


    What does pass by reference or value have to do with the case of frames?
    If you have a global variable in one frame then it is a property of the
    window object of the frame thus if the iframe document does
    parent.varName = someExpression
    then a global variable in the parent window is set and that variable
    does not change if a new document is loaded into the iframe as the
    iframe has its own window object with its own variables.
    Whether that expression evaluates to a primitive value or a function
    object does not matter at all, there is not even a method or function
    with arguments involved where the term passing by reference or value
    makes sense.

    --

    Martin Honnen
    http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/
    Martin Honnen, Jul 6, 2005
    #9
  10. Martin Honnen wrote:
    > Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    >
    >
    > >>>Razzbar wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>What's especially neat is that you can assign a new
    > >>>>function to the top window from the iframe, then load
    > >>>>another document in the iframe, and the top window's
    > >>>>new function is still available.

    >
    > > Not to be argumentative, but if they are passed by reference only then
    > > could you explain why the referant isn't freed, causing an error in the
    > > case described by Razzbar?

    >
    > What does pass by reference or value have to do with the case of frames?


    Assign an object created in a child frame to a property of the parent
    window, then navigate away from that document in the child frame and
    attempt to manipulate the object in the parent window, and then maybe
    you can tell me.
    "Can't execute code from a free script."

    > If you have a global variable in one frame then it is a property of the
    > window object of the frame thus if the iframe document does
    > parent.varName = someExpression
    > then a global variable in the parent window is set and that variable
    > does not change if a new document is loaded into the iframe as the
    > iframe has its own window object with its own variables.


    True, but if the variable is set as a reference (i.e. the object is
    passed by reference to the assignment operator) then upon navigation of
    the frame the referrant will been freed and the reference broken. In my
    experience, further attempts to manipulate that object will result in
    the error (in IE at least):
    "Can't execute code from a freed script."

    Try it out, as above.

    This does not appear to be the case with functions or primitive values.

    > Whether that expression evaluates to a primitive value or a function
    > object does not matter at all, there is not even a method or function
    > with arguments involved where the term passing by reference or value
    > makes sense.


    It is a function of operators that they receive values of some kind,
    whether they be primitive values or references to objects (see also the
    statement: ;+; ). I have commonly seen this provision of values to an
    operator referred to as "passing". You might call it something else. It
    makes no difference.


    >
    > --
    >
    > Martin Honnen
    > http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/
    Christopher J. Hahn, Jul 6, 2005
    #10
  11. Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    > Richard Cornford wrote:
    > > Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    > > > Razzbar wrote:
    > > >> What's especially neat is that you can assign a new
    > > >> function to the top window from the iframe, then load
    > > >> another document in the iframe, and the top window's
    > > >> new function is still available.
    > > >
    > > > If I'm right, I believe that's because functions are
    > > > primitive data types in JS, like strings and numbers,

    > >
    > > Functions are object in javascript. And like all other objects they can
    > > have named properties added to them, and assigned values, at any time.
    > >
    > > > so they're passed "by value" in all operations, and
    > > > not by reference.

    > > <snip>
    > >
    > > Being objects they are passed by reference only.
    > >
    > > Richard.

    >
    > Not to be argumentative, but if they are passed by reference only then
    > could you explain why the referant isn't freed, causing an error in the
    > case described by Razzbar?
    >
    > I've been too busy to actually test the case, mind you, but I'm fairly
    > sure he's correct.


    Richard,
    Incidentally I did manage a *very* small test case and found that
    by-reference-only appeared to be correct, though I didn't use frames or
    anything.

    But I really would appreciate it if you could explain to me why the
    function object doesn't appear to be freed upon navigation like other
    objects which are also members of the child window object. I think it
    would clear up a lot of my confusion on this matter.
    Christopher J. Hahn, Jul 6, 2005
    #11
  12. Dave Hammond

    Razzbar Guest

    Martin Honnen wrote:

    > What does pass by reference or value have to do with the case of frames?
    > If you have a global variable in one frame then it is a property of the
    > window object of the frame thus if the iframe document does
    > parent.varName = someExpression
    > then a global variable in the parent window is set and that variable
    > does not change if a new document is loaded into the iframe as the
    > iframe has its own window object with its own variables.


    Hmm... the iframe's document defines a function. The iframe's document
    is a child of the iframe's window, so the iframe's function is part of
    the of the iframe's window, which is part of the parent window...

    > Whether that expression evaluates to a primitive value or a function
    > object does not matter at all, there is not even a method or function
    > with arguments involved where the term passing by reference or value
    > makes sense.


    But the question is, if top.foo() is a reference* to the foo() defined
    in a document that has gone bye-bye, why does top.foo() still work?

    If top.foo() = foo() //in the iframe's temporary document was an
    assignment by value, it would make sense that it persists.

    But if that's an assignment by reference, what would it be pointing to
    after the defining document has changed?
    Razzbar, Jul 6, 2005
    #12
  13. Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    > Richard Cornford wrote:
    >> Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    >>> If I'm right, I believe that's because functions are
    >>> primitive data types in JS, like strings and numbers,

    >>
    >> Functions are object in javascript. And like all other
    >> objects they can have named properties added to them,
    >> and assigned values, at any time.
    >>
    >> > so they're passed "by value" in all operations, and
    >> > not by reference.

    >> <snip>
    >>
    >> Being objects they are passed by reference only.
    >>
    >> Richard.

    >
    > Not to be argumentative,


    Don't worry about being argumentative.

    > but if they are passed by reference only then could you
    > explain why the referant isn't freed, causing an error in
    > the case described by Razzbar?


    Superficial testing is the most likely explanation of the behaviour
    described. The bottom line is that calling a function that has been
    defined in a frame that has unloaded via a reference to that function in
    another frame is not going to work cross-browser. Confidence acquired by
    only testing browsers where it does work is no indicator of reliability.

    Consider what would happen where it does work. Think about garbage
    collection. If the containing frame refers to a function that originates
    in (and so in some sense belongs to) another frame's global object then
    that function should not be able to be garbage collected when the
    contents of that other frame unload. And as the function's scope chain
    refers to the global object then that global object should not be
    garbage collectable, and as the global object refers to the document
    (and indirectly to its contents) the document should not be garbage
    collectable, and so on. So where it works it is a brilliant way of tying
    up a big chunk of memory in exchange for the ability to use what is
    potentially a tiny function. (And might even result in talk of memory
    leaks, where the memory consumption would in reality be the expected
    consequences of behaviour being specifically programmed).

    However, the execution environment of an unloaded frame is (to some
    degree or another, in different browsers) dismantled and functions and
    objects referred to by properties in different frames may start
    producing errors if used. that is certainly the case for functions in
    some versions of Windows IE 6, and if it doesn't work in Windows IE 6
    then it has no potential application in a commercial project.

    That this should happen, and that the results should differ considerably
    between browsers (and browser versions) is not particularly surprising
    as ECMAScript is designed for one global object, and one execution
    environment, rather than multiple interacting environments. There is
    simply no specified mechanism for the interactions between environments.

    > I've been too busy to actually test the case, mind you,
    > but I'm fairly sure he's correct.


    Do try it.

    Richard.
    Richard Cornford, Jul 7, 2005
    #13
  14. Richard Cornford wrote:
    > Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    > > Richard Cornford wrote:
    > >> Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    > >>> If I'm right, I believe that's because functions are
    > >>> primitive data types in JS, like strings and numbers,
    > >>
    > >> Functions are object in javascript. And like all other
    > >> objects they can have named properties added to them,
    > >> and assigned values, at any time.
    > >>
    > >> > so they're passed "by value" in all operations, and
    > >> > not by reference.
    > >> <snip>
    > >>
    > >> Being objects they are passed by reference only.
    > >>
    > >> Richard.

    > >
    > > Not to be argumentative,

    >
    > Don't worry about being argumentative.


    Courtesy is a pretense with a purpose.

    > > but if they are passed by reference only then could you
    > > explain why the referant isn't freed, causing an error in
    > > the case described by Razzbar?

    >
    > Superficial testing is the most likely explanation of the behaviour
    > described. The bottom line is that calling a function that has been
    > defined in a frame that has unloaded via a reference to that function in
    > another frame is not going to work cross-browser. Confidence acquired by
    > only testing browsers where it does work is no indicator of reliability.
    >
    > Consider what would happen where it does work. Think about garbage
    > collection. If the containing frame refers to a function that originates
    > in (and so in some sense belongs to) another frame's global object then
    > that function should not be able to be garbage collected when the
    > contents of that other frame unload. And as the function's scope chain
    > refers to the global object then that global object should not be
    > garbage collectable, and as the global object refers to the document
    > (and indirectly to its contents) the document should not be garbage
    > collectable, and so on. So where it works it is a brilliant way of tying
    > up a big chunk of memory in exchange for the ability to use what is
    > potentially a tiny function. (And might even result in talk of memory
    > leaks, where the memory consumption would in reality be the expected
    > consequences of behaviour being specifically programmed).


    But there are other functionalities inherent in the language itself
    that allow for remote creation of objects without resorting to the
    ill-considered and clumsy implementation implied by the behavior to
    which you're referring. There is no reason for a JS implementor to make
    garbage collection quirky.



    > However, the execution environment of an unloaded frame is (to some
    > degree or another, in different browsers) dismantled and functions and
    > objects referred to by properties in different frames may start
    > producing errors if used. that is certainly the case for functions in
    > some versions of Windows IE 6, and if it doesn't work in Windows IE 6
    > then it has no potential application in a commercial project.
    >
    > That this should happen, and that the results should differ considerably
    > between browsers (and browser versions) is not particularly surprising
    > as ECMAScript is designed for one global object, and one execution
    > environment, rather than multiple interacting environments. There is
    > simply no specified mechanism for the interactions between environments.


    There's no reason the window object need be considered the top-level
    object internally, so there's no reason for implementors to consider
    the window to be an environment as opposed to another object in the
    scope chain.

    The problem seems to stem from the ambiguity of the relationship
    between a document and its window. It would seem more intuitive (to me,
    anyway) that variables and objects created by a document should be
    properties of the document, rather than the window. Again, this is
    obviously not the language's fault as (to my knowledge), the language
    itself doesn't provide window or document objects.

    This would be another point wehere I would like to see the W3C weigh
    in.



    > > I've been too busy to actually test the case, mind you,
    > > but I'm fairly sure he's correct.

    >
    > Do try it.
    >
    > Richard.


    The ability to do things that I believe I should not expect to work is
    something that I try to forget about, as it lends itself to bad
    practice in other languages and/or past or future versions or other
    implementations of the same language (like I mentioned with PERL's
    automatic return of the value of the last expression in a function). To
    me, thought should be just as portable as code.

    Thanks for that excellent answer, Richard.




    Sorry if any of what I've said makes little sense-- I've been pretty
    swamped and my mind is scattered across many things at once. This week
    I am thinking in PERL::threads+C. Next week I'll be thinking in
    PHP/C+HTML again. The week after it'll be JS+PHP+NNTP+HTML, with some
    MySQL on the side.
    Christopher J. Hahn, Jul 10, 2005
    #14
  15. Richard Cornford wrote:

    > Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    >> Razzbar wrote:
    >>> What's especially neat is that you can assign a new
    >>> function to the top window from the iframe, then load
    >>> another document in the iframe, and the top window's
    >>> new function is still available.

    >>
    >> If I'm right, I believe that's because functions are
    >> primitive data types in JS, like strings and numbers,

    >
    > Functions are object in javascript. And like all other objects they can
    > have named properties added to them, and assigned values, at any time.
    >
    >> so they're passed "by value" in all operations, and not by reference.

    > <snip>
    >
    > Being objects they are passed by reference only.


    No. The known pass-by-* scheme of programming languages implementing
    pointers does not apply here. A JS reference is not a pointer.

    Objects in JS are only available via an object reference. One could say
    that those references are passed to methods by value and that value is the
    object. If you see it this way, it is quite clear why

    function foo(x, y)
    {
    x = {bar: 42};
    y.foobar = 23;
    }

    var y = {}, z = {};
    foo(y, z);

    does not result in (pseudocode)

    y == {bar: 42, foobar: 23}

    but in

    y == {}
    z == {foobar: 23}

    The value of the first reference variable is changed to be assigned
    a reference to a *new* object, and the value of the second reference
    variable (i.e. the object) is changed to have a new property.


    PointedEars
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Jul 17, 2005
    #15
  16. Re: Script in an IFRAME can not call functions defined in the parentdocument?

    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

    <snip>

    > function foo(x, y)
    > {
    > x = {bar: 42};
    > y.foobar = 23;
    > }
    >
    > var y = {}, z = {};
    > foo(y, z);
    >
    > does not result in (pseudocode)
    >
    > y == {bar: 42, foobar: 23}


    No one could ever expect that - that would be misunderstanding the
    basics of scoping and assignment!

    > but in
    >
    > y == {}
    > z == {foobar: 23}


    That's true, but your example is, IMHO, too obscure to serve as a clear
    demonstration of whichever point.

    ---
    function foo(a, b) {
    a = {bar: 42};
    b.foobar = 23;
    }

    var y = {p:"y"}, z = {p:"z"};
    foo(y, z);
    ---

    > The value of the first reference variable is changed to be assigned
    > a reference to a *new* object, and the value of the second reference
    > variable (i.e. the object) is changed to have a new property.


    Explaining in what 'y' consist in the end, and why, would certainly help
    to provide some insight on the way references and objects work in
    javascript.


    Regards,
    Yep 'passing by reference'.
    Yann-Erwan Perio, Jul 17, 2005
    #16
  17. Yann-Erwan Perio wrote:

    > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    >> function foo(x, y)
    >> {
    >> x = {bar: 42};
    >> y.foobar = 23;
    >> }
    >>
    >> var y = {}, z = {};
    >> foo(y, z);
    >>
    >> does not result in (pseudocode)
    >>
    >> y == {bar: 42, foobar: 23}

    >
    > No one could ever expect that - that would be misunderstanding the
    > basics of scoping and assignment!


    No, if objects were 'always "passed by reference"' (as understood in a
    language implementing pointers) as Richard stated, then x would be a
    pointer to the object and an assignment to x would change the globally
    defined object y. It does not, because only the reference is changed
    to point to another object.

    >> but in
    >>
    >> y == {}
    >> z == {foobar: 23}

    >
    > That's true, but your example is, IMHO, too obscure to serve as a clear
    > demonstration of whichever point.
    >
    > ---
    > function foo(a, b) {
    > a = {bar: 42};
    > b.foobar = 23;
    > }
    >
    > var y = {p:"y"}, z = {p:"z"};
    > foo(y, z);
    > ---


    OK, that's more clear. However, if one understood scoping and the
    pass-by-reference scheme, he would also understand my example.

    >> The value of the first reference variable is changed to be assigned
    >> a reference to a *new* object, and the value of the second reference
    >> variable (i.e. the object) is changed to have a new property.

    >
    > Explaining in what 'y' consist in the end, and why, would certainly help
    > to provide some insight on the way references and objects work in
    > javascript.


    [x] done


    PointedEars
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Jul 17, 2005
    #17
  18. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    > Richard Cornford wrote:
    >
    > > Christopher J. Hahn wrote:
    > >> Razzbar wrote:
    > >>> What's especially neat is that you can assign a new
    > >>> function to the top window from the iframe, then load
    > >>> another document in the iframe, and the top window's
    > >>> new function is still available.
    > >>
    > >> If I'm right, I believe that's because functions are
    > >> primitive data types in JS, like strings and numbers,

    > >
    > > Functions are object in javascript. And like all other objects they can
    > > have named properties added to them, and assigned values, at any time.
    > >
    > >> so they're passed "by value" in all operations, and not by reference.

    > > <snip>
    > >
    > > Being objects they are passed by reference only.

    >
    > No. The known pass-by-* scheme of programming languages implementing
    > pointers does not apply here. A JS reference is not a pointer.
    >
    > Objects in JS are only available via an object reference. One could say
    > that those references are passed to methods by value and that value is the
    > object. If you see it this way, it is quite clear why


    I don't see the effective difference between a reference passed by
    value and a value passed by reference. Not in JS, anyway, which to my
    knowledge provides no explicit means for referencing, dereferencing,
    nor threading.

    Either way, you end up with a reference to the value.

    Functionally there's no difference, is there?


    > function foo(x, y)
    > {
    > x = {bar: 42};
    > y.foobar = 23;
    > }
    >
    > var y = {}, z = {};
    > foo(y, z);
    >
    > does not result in (pseudocode)
    >
    > y == {bar: 42, foobar: 23}
    >
    > but in
    >
    > y == {}
    > z == {foobar: 23}


    Even given the way of thinking that the referenced object is being
    passed by reference, this is equally clear.

    The only difference (and I wouldn't call it a "real" difference) is
    that, by saying it is being passed by reference, there's an implied
    step of dereferencing, which I'm assuming doesn't actually occur.


    > The value of the first reference variable is changed to be assigned
    > a reference to a *new* object, and the value of the second reference
    > variable (i.e. the object) is changed to have a new property.


    Because we're not talking pointers, but references, right?


    > PointedEars
    Christopher J. Hahn, Jul 17, 2005
    #18
  19. Christopher J. Hahn wrote:

    > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:


    > I don't see the effective difference between a reference passed by
    > value and a value passed by reference. Not in JS, anyway, which to my
    > knowledge provides no explicit means for referencing, dereferencing,
    > nor threading.
    >
    > Either way, you end up with a reference to the value.
    >
    > Functionally there's no difference, is there?


    There is, ref. <>

    >> The value of the first reference variable is changed to be assigned
    >> a reference to a *new* object, and the value of the second reference
    >> variable (i.e. the object) is changed to have a new property.

    >
    > Because we're not talking pointers, but references, right?


    Yes.


    PointedEars
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Jul 17, 2005
    #19
  20. Re: Script in an IFRAME can not call functions defined in the parentdocument?

    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

    Hi,

    <snip>

    >>> function foo(x, y)
    >>> {
    >>> x = {bar: 42};
    >>> y.foobar = 23;
    >>> }
    >>>
    >>> var y = {}, z = {};
    >>> foo(y, z);
    >>>
    >>>does not result in (pseudocode)
    >>>
    >>> y == {bar: 42, foobar: 23}

    >>
    >>No one could ever expect that - that would be misunderstanding the
    >>basics of scoping and assignment!


    > No, if objects were 'always "passed by reference"' (as understood in a
    > language implementing pointers) as Richard stated, then x would be a
    > pointer to the object and an assignment to x would change the globally
    > defined object y. It does not, because only the reference is changed
    > to point to another object.


    Just to clarify : I was not referring to the pointers/references issue,
    but simply to the fact that 'y' becoming {bar:42, foobar:23} would not
    be possible, whichever perspective (reference or pointer) - y.foobar in
    the function's body would indeed apply on the object behind 'z'. This is
    why I suggested, later in my post, a change in the arguments' names.

    <snip>


    Regards,
    Yep.
    Yann-Erwan Perio, Jul 17, 2005
    #20
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