scripting language (fwd)

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Ara.T.Howard, Jul 15, 2004.

  1. Ara.T.Howard

    Ara.T.Howard Guest

    got this from a friend... any thoughts?

    -a
    --
    ===============================================================================
    | EMAIL :: Ara [dot] T [dot] Howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
    | PHONE :: 303.497.6469
    | A flower falls, even though we love it;
    | and a weed grows, even though we do not love it.
    | --Dogen
    ===============================================================================

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:33:35 -0700 (PDT)
    To: Ara.T.Howard <>
    Subject: scripting language

    Hey A-

    I'm investigating alternative scripting languages. We
    currently use Perl almost exclusively (except
    sometimes some ksh) but would like to consider a
    language that is friendlier with the JVM. It also has
    to have an LDAP API and an Oracle API, without
    requiring C coding (we don't have C coders here).

    My first task is to write a trivial script that
    selects one row from an Oracle database. I installed
    ruby for windows. I downloaded & installed ruby DBD,
    which says it requires ruby OCI, which doesn't come in
    binary form (i.e. requires me to compile it with a c
    compiler, which I don't have on my windows box).

    That's probably more rigamarole than several of these
    other languages require. And the libraries themselves
    seem to be mostly alpha software with the last update
    sometime in 2003.

    I'm struck by the elegance of ruby and I'd really like
    to try and make it work, but am having a hard time
    fitting it into the production realities of our shop.
    I'm getting the impression that a C shop could really
    take the language and run with it, but a
    cobol/SQL/java shop like ours may be out of luck. Do
    you have any encouraging words/links before I move on?

    J
    Ara.T.Howard, Jul 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. Ara.T.Howard

    Ben Giddings Guest

    Ara.T.Howard wrote:
    > I'm investigating alternative scripting languages. We
    > currently use Perl almost exclusively (except
    > sometimes some ksh) but would like to consider a
    > language that is friendlier with the JVM. It also has
    > to have an LDAP API and an Oracle API, without
    > requiring C coding (we don't have C coders here).


    Well, first of all, he should take a look at zsh if they use ksh. ;)

    Secondly, it seems a bit odd to me that a cobol/SQL/Java shop wouldn't
    even be able to compile C code. I assume there's no programming in
    getting the Ruby OCI to work, just compiling. I suppose if they're on
    Windows instead of Linux, OS X or a BSD then they might not have a C
    compiler handy. *shrug*

    I guess it's common for Windows packages to be distributed as compiled
    binaries, but from a brief glance, this Ruby OCI interface seems to be
    geared more towards Unixish users (it's distributed as a tar.gz file).

    Maybe Ruby just isn't what they need, but I would bet that it wouldn't
    be too hard to find a kind soul to compile the API for them if they
    don't want to bother with installing a compiler.

    Ben
    Ben Giddings, Jul 15, 2004
    #2
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  3. Ara.T.Howard wrote:
    > got this from a friend... any thoughts?
    >
    > Hey A-
    >
    > I'm investigating alternative scripting languages. We
    > currently use Perl almost exclusively (except
    > sometimes some ksh) but would like to consider a
    > language that is friendlier with the JVM. It also has
    > to have an LDAP API and an Oracle API, without
    > requiring C coding (we don't have C coders here).


    I hesitate to suggest a language other than Ruby, but if they want something
    that's friendly with the JVM, I wonder if they should be looking at Groovy?

    http://groovy.codehaus.org/
    http://groovy.codehaus.org/Language Guide

    -Mike
    Michael Geary, Jul 15, 2004
    #3
  4. Ara.T.Howard

    Jamis Buck Guest

    Ara.T.Howard wrote:
    >
    > got this from a friend... any thoughts?
    >
    > -a
    > --
    > ===============================================================================
    >
    > | EMAIL :: Ara [dot] T [dot] Howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
    > | PHONE :: 303.497.6469
    > | A flower falls, even though we love it;
    > | and a weed grows, even though we do not love it. | --Dogen
    > ===============================================================================
    >
    >
    > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:33:35 -0700 (PDT)
    > To: Ara.T.Howard <>
    > Subject: scripting language
    >
    > Hey A-
    >
    > I'm investigating alternative scripting languages. We
    > currently use Perl almost exclusively (except
    > sometimes some ksh) but would like to consider a
    > language that is friendlier with the JVM. It also has
    > to have an LDAP API and an Oracle API, without
    > requiring C coding (we don't have C coders here).
    >
    > My first task is to write a trivial script that
    > selects one row from an Oracle database. I installed
    > ruby for windows. I downloaded & installed ruby DBD,
    > which says it requires ruby OCI, which doesn't come in
    > binary form (i.e. requires me to compile it with a c
    > compiler, which I don't have on my windows box).
    >
    > That's probably more rigamarole than several of these
    > other languages require. And the libraries themselves
    > seem to be mostly alpha software with the last update
    > sometime in 2003.
    >
    > I'm struck by the elegance of ruby and I'd really like
    > to try and make it work, but am having a hard time
    > fitting it into the production realities of our shop.
    > I'm getting the impression that a C shop could really
    > take the language and run with it, but a
    > cobol/SQL/java shop like ours may be out of luck. Do
    > you have any encouraging words/links before I move on?


    Has anyone ever reverse-engineered a network protocol before? It would
    certainly be nice to have a "pure-ruby" driver for Oracle, so that it
    could be used right out of the box on any platform, like the thin JDBC
    drivers for Oracle.

    I took a glance at some of the packets exchanged with our Oracle db here
    and it looks like it might not be too difficult to come up with... but
    then again, I'm probably hopelessly naive on this score, having never
    even attempted to reverse engineer a protocol before. In fact, I don't
    even know what the legal issues surrounding this would be.

    I just think it would be slick. :)

    --
    Jamis Buck

    http://www.jamisbuck.org/jamis

    "I use octal until I get to 8, and then I switch to decimal."
    Jamis Buck, Jul 15, 2004
    #4
  5. Isn't there source code for the oci oracle protocol out there? A lot
    of open source projects have that option. I'm thinking of PHP. You
    might want to look at the source before you try reverse-engineering
    anything.

    On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 03:34:17 +0900, Jamis Buck <> wrote:
    > Ara.T.Howard wrote:
    > >
    > > got this from a friend... any thoughts?
    > >
    > > -a
    > > --
    > > ===============================================================================
    > >
    > > | EMAIL :: Ara [dot] T [dot] Howard [at] noaa [dot] gov
    > > | PHONE :: 303.497.6469
    > > | A flower falls, even though we love it;
    > > | and a weed grows, even though we do not love it. | --Dogen
    > > ===============================================================================
    > >
    > >
    > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    > > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:33:35 -0700 (PDT)
    > > To: Ara.T.Howard <>
    > > Subject: scripting language
    > >
    > > Hey A-
    > >
    > > I'm investigating alternative scripting languages. We
    > > currently use Perl almost exclusively (except
    > > sometimes some ksh) but would like to consider a
    > > language that is friendlier with the JVM. It also has
    > > to have an LDAP API and an Oracle API, without
    > > requiring C coding (we don't have C coders here).
    > >
    > > My first task is to write a trivial script that
    > > selects one row from an Oracle database. I installed
    > > ruby for windows. I downloaded & installed ruby DBD,
    > > which says it requires ruby OCI, which doesn't come in
    > > binary form (i.e. requires me to compile it with a c
    > > compiler, which I don't have on my windows box).
    > >
    > > That's probably more rigamarole than several of these
    > > other languages require. And the libraries themselves
    > > seem to be mostly alpha software with the last update
    > > sometime in 2003.
    > >
    > > I'm struck by the elegance of ruby and I'd really like
    > > to try and make it work, but am having a hard time
    > > fitting it into the production realities of our shop.
    > > I'm getting the impression that a C shop could really
    > > take the language and run with it, but a
    > > cobol/SQL/java shop like ours may be out of luck. Do
    > > you have any encouraging words/links before I move on?

    >
    > Has anyone ever reverse-engineered a network protocol before? It would
    > certainly be nice to have a "pure-ruby" driver for Oracle, so that it
    > could be used right out of the box on any platform, like the thin JDBC
    > drivers for Oracle.
    >
    > I took a glance at some of the packets exchanged with our Oracle db here
    > and it looks like it might not be too difficult to come up with... but
    > then again, I'm probably hopelessly naive on this score, having never
    > even attempted to reverse engineer a protocol before. In fact, I don't
    > even know what the legal issues surrounding this would be.
    >
    > I just think it would be slick. :)
    >
    > --
    > Jamis Buck
    >
    > http://www.jamisbuck.org/jamis
    >
    > "I use octal until I get to 8, and then I switch to decimal."
    >
    >
    Carl Youngblood, Jul 15, 2004
    #5
  6. Ara.T.Howard

    Jamis Buck Guest

    Carl Youngblood wrote:
    > Isn't there source code for the oci oracle protocol out there? A lot
    > of open source projects have that option. I'm thinking of PHP. You
    > might want to look at the source before you try reverse-engineering
    > anything.
    >


    Well, looking at the OCI stuff in PHP, it looks like it relies on the
    Oracle client being installed as well. It then makes API calls into the
    Oracle client libraries to connect to and query the database.

    What I would like is to remove the Oracle client as a dependency, just
    as the Oracle JDBC (thin) client does. The thin (as opposed to the oci)
    Oracle JDBC client implements in pure Java the network protocols that
    communicate with the Oracle database server.

    This means that the thin client will ultimately be less responsive than
    the oci client, but its GREAT for working on your own machine.

    I'm hoping that something like this can be written for Ruby, in Ruby,
    without the need to create an extension module in C to bridge into the
    Oracle OCI stuff (which is what the current ruby oracle module does).

    I'm not volunteering to write it--I've got too much on my plate
    already--I was just wondering if anyone else has thought about doing this.

    --
    Jamis Buck

    http://www.jamisbuck.org/jamis

    "I use octal until I get to 8, and then I switch to decimal."
    Jamis Buck, Jul 15, 2004
    #6
  7. On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 04:25:47 +0900, Jamis Buck <> wrote:
    > Carl Youngblood wrote:
    > > Isn't there source code for the oci oracle protocol out there? A lot
    > > of open source projects have that option. I'm thinking of PHP. You
    > > might want to look at the source before you try reverse-engineering
    > > anything.
    > >

    >
    > Well, looking at the OCI stuff in PHP, it looks like it relies on the
    > Oracle client being installed as well. It then makes API calls into the
    > Oracle client libraries to connect to and query the database.
    >
    > What I would like is to remove the Oracle client as a dependency, just
    > as the Oracle JDBC (thin) client does. The thin (as opposed to the oci)
    > Oracle JDBC client implements in pure Java the network protocols that
    > communicate with the Oracle database server.
    >
    > This means that the thin client will ultimately be less responsive than
    > the oci client, but its GREAT for working on your own machine.
    >
    > I'm hoping that something like this can be written for Ruby, in Ruby,
    > without the need to create an extension module in C to bridge into the
    > Oracle OCI stuff (which is what the current ruby oracle module does).
    >
    > I'm not volunteering to write it--I've got too much on my plate
    > already--I was just wondering if anyone else has thought about doing this.


    I don't do any direct work with Oracle anymore; if I were to do so, I
    might look at reverse engineering this -- but I also spent the last
    little while to see if anyone has come up with an open source Oracle
    thin driver; it appears not.

    -austin
    --
    Austin Ziegler *
    * Alternate:
    Austin Ziegler, Jul 15, 2004
    #7
  8. Austin Ziegler wrote:

    > On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 04:25:47 +0900, Jamis Buck <> wrote:
    >
    >>Carl Youngblood wrote:
    >>
    >>>Isn't there source code for the oci oracle protocol out there? A lot
    >>>of open source projects have that option. I'm thinking of PHP. You
    >>>might want to look at the source before you try reverse-engineering
    >>>anything.
    >>>

    >>
    >>Well, looking at the OCI stuff in PHP, it looks like it relies on the
    >>Oracle client being installed as well. It then makes API calls into the
    >>Oracle client libraries to connect to and query the database.
    >>
    >>What I would like is to remove the Oracle client as a dependency, just
    >>as the Oracle JDBC (thin) client does. The thin (as opposed to the oci)
    >>Oracle JDBC client implements in pure Java the network protocols that
    >>communicate with the Oracle database server.
    >>
    >>This means that the thin client will ultimately be less responsive than
    >>the oci client, but its GREAT for working on your own machine.
    >>
    >>I'm hoping that something like this can be written for Ruby, in Ruby,
    >>without the need to create an extension module in C to bridge into the
    >>Oracle OCI stuff (which is what the current ruby oracle module does).
    >>
    >>I'm not volunteering to write it--I've got too much on my plate
    >>already--I was just wondering if anyone else has thought about doing this.

    >
    >
    > I don't do any direct work with Oracle anymore; if I were to do so, I
    > might look at reverse engineering this -- but I also spent the last
    > little while to see if anyone has come up with an open source Oracle
    > thin driver; it appears not.
    >
    > -austin


    Are there dynamic libraries that do this? If the API is documented,
    maybe its just a matter of creating Ruby wrappers using ext/dl or swig.
    Randy Lawrence, Jul 15, 2004
    #8
  9. Ara.T.Howard

    Jamis Buck Guest

    Randy Lawrence wrote:
    > Austin Ziegler wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 04:25:47 +0900, Jamis Buck <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Carl Youngblood wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Isn't there source code for the oci oracle protocol out there? A lot
    >>>> of open source projects have that option. I'm thinking of PHP. You
    >>>> might want to look at the source before you try reverse-engineering
    >>>> anything.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Well, looking at the OCI stuff in PHP, it looks like it relies on the
    >>> Oracle client being installed as well. It then makes API calls into the
    >>> Oracle client libraries to connect to and query the database.
    >>>
    >>> What I would like is to remove the Oracle client as a dependency, just
    >>> as the Oracle JDBC (thin) client does. The thin (as opposed to the oci)
    >>> Oracle JDBC client implements in pure Java the network protocols that
    >>> communicate with the Oracle database server.
    >>>
    >>> This means that the thin client will ultimately be less responsive than
    >>> the oci client, but its GREAT for working on your own machine.
    >>>
    >>> I'm hoping that something like this can be written for Ruby, in Ruby,
    >>> without the need to create an extension module in C to bridge into the
    >>> Oracle OCI stuff (which is what the current ruby oracle module does).
    >>>
    >>> I'm not volunteering to write it--I've got too much on my plate
    >>> already--I was just wondering if anyone else has thought about doing
    >>> this.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't do any direct work with Oracle anymore; if I were to do so, I
    >> might look at reverse engineering this -- but I also spent the last
    >> little while to see if anyone has come up with an open source Oracle
    >> thin driver; it appears not.
    >>
    >> -austin

    >
    >
    > Are there dynamic libraries that do this? If the API is documented,
    > maybe its just a matter of creating Ruby wrappers using ext/dl or swig.
    >


    That's just the thing... in order to use the API, you have to have the
    oracle client installed. What if you don't have access to the oracle
    client? What if you don't want to install it? It is, after all, quite
    large. What if (*gasp*) you're using an OS that isn't supported by the
    oracle client?

    What I am referring to is a pure Ruby client that communicates via TCP
    with the Oracle database server, wherever it may be.

    There are already ruby modules that communicate with oracle via its API.
    The problem is that the OP doesn't have access to a compiler and the
    oracle modules aren't distributed in binary form. :( Thus, a pure Ruby
    solution would (IMO) be desirable.

    --
    Jamis Buck

    http://www.jamisbuck.org/jamis

    "I use octal until I get to 8, and then I switch to decimal."
    Jamis Buck, Jul 15, 2004
    #9
  10. On Friday, July 16, 2004, 5:25:47 AM, Jamis wrote:

    > What I would like is to remove the Oracle client as a dependency, just
    > as the Oracle JDBC (thin) client does. The thin (as opposed to the oci)
    > Oracle JDBC client implements in pure Java the network protocols that
    > communicate with the Oracle database server.


    > This means that the thin client will ultimately be less responsive than
    > the oci client, but its GREAT for working on your own machine.


    > I'm hoping that something like this can be written for Ruby, in Ruby,
    > without the need to create an extension module in C to bridge into the
    > Oracle OCI stuff (which is what the current ruby oracle module does).


    Couldn't the thin client be written in C and then wrapped in every
    scripting language imaginable? If so, *is* there an Oracle thin
    client library written in C already?

    Gavin
    Gavin Sinclair, Jul 15, 2004
    #10
  11. Ara.T.Howard

    Jamis Buck Guest

    Gavin Sinclair wrote:
    > On Friday, July 16, 2004, 5:25:47 AM, Jamis wrote:
    >
    >
    >>What I would like is to remove the Oracle client as a dependency, just
    >>as the Oracle JDBC (thin) client does. The thin (as opposed to the oci)
    >>Oracle JDBC client implements in pure Java the network protocols that
    >>communicate with the Oracle database server.

    >
    >
    >>This means that the thin client will ultimately be less responsive than
    >>the oci client, but its GREAT for working on your own machine.

    >
    >
    >>I'm hoping that something like this can be written for Ruby, in Ruby,
    >>without the need to create an extension module in C to bridge into the
    >>Oracle OCI stuff (which is what the current ruby oracle module does).

    >
    >
    > Couldn't the thin client be written in C and then wrapped in every
    > scripting language imaginable? If so, *is* there an Oracle thin
    > client library written in C already?
    >
    > Gavin


    The client *could*, of course be written in C. To my knowledge, such an
    implementation does not exist. (Might be a neat project, in fact.)

    However, that still doesn't address the OP's original concern: lack of a
    compiler made a C extension impractical. A *pure Ruby* implementation
    would still be most convenient, though not as efficient.

    --
    Jamis Buck

    http://www.jamisbuck.org/jamis

    "I use octal until I get to 8, and then I switch to decimal."
    Jamis Buck, Jul 15, 2004
    #11
  12. This may sound heretical on a Ruby mailing list, but it sounds like
    what they need is *not* Ruby. If they're a Java shop, and are using
    backends (Oracle, LDAP) which are already well-supported on the Java
    platform, it seems like investing heavily in a C-based language
    runtime probably won't be in their best interests.

    I second the earlier recommendation to consider Groovy, and think
    JRuby could work as well.

    Lennon
    Lennon Day-Reynolds, Jul 16, 2004
    #12
  13. I bet that ethereal would come in handy for reverse engineering the
    protocol. Just set it up to capture the network traffic, run a bunch
    of queries on a machine that has the client installed and then dump
    the traffic to a file for detailed analysis.
    Carl Youngblood, Jul 16, 2004
    #13
  14. "Gavin Sinclair" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:...
    > On Friday, July 16, 2004, 5:25:47 AM, Jamis wrote:
    >
    > > What I would like is to remove the Oracle client as a dependency, just
    > > as the Oracle JDBC (thin) client does. The thin (as opposed to the

    oci)
    > > Oracle JDBC client implements in pure Java the network protocols that
    > > communicate with the Oracle database server.

    >
    > > This means that the thin client will ultimately be less responsive

    than
    > > the oci client, but its GREAT for working on your own machine.

    >
    > > I'm hoping that something like this can be written for Ruby, in Ruby,
    > > without the need to create an extension module in C to bridge into the
    > > Oracle OCI stuff (which is what the current ruby oracle module does).

    >
    > Couldn't the thin client be written in C and then wrapped in every
    > scripting language imaginable? If so, *is* there an Oracle thin
    > client library written in C already?


    AFAIK there is a lib containing the OCI code (pure C). So IMHO it should
    be feasible to build a shared lib for each platform supported by Oracle
    and link Oracle's code in.

    Then there's still the legal issue. I figure Oracle could be grateful for
    each added language with built in Oracle support.

    But I may be wrong.

    robert
    Robert Klemme, Jul 16, 2004
    #14
  15. Ara.T.Howard

    Jamis Buck Guest

    Carl Youngblood wrote:
    > I bet that ethereal would come in handy for reverse engineering the
    > protocol. Just set it up to capture the network traffic, run a bunch
    > of queries on a machine that has the client installed and then dump
    > the traffic to a file for detailed analysis.


    It is VERY handy. ;) I used it a little bit yesterday to get an idea of
    how the TNS requests and responses were formatted.

    The hard part (as I see it, being a newbie in this area) is decyphering
    the data portions of each packet. *sigh*

    I need to stop responding to this thread... I've got too many projects
    already, and this is tempting me too much... ;)

    --
    Jamis Buck

    http://www.jamisbuck.org/jamis

    "I use octal until I get to 8, and then I switch to decimal."
    Jamis Buck, Jul 16, 2004
    #15
  16. Ara.T.Howard

    Kent Sibilev Guest

    Long time ago I wrote a oracle client module using Ruby/DL which
    connected to oracle via Oracle OCI API. There was also a DBD wrapper
    for this module, so I could use it via DBI interface. So if you do not
    have a compiler installed but you have Oracle client installed, you can
    use this module. At that time I tested it only on my WinXP box, and
    since this is the pure ruby module there are some performance drawbacks
    as well.

    URL: http://rubyist.homeunix.net/rubyoci-0.1.tar.gz

    Cheers,
    Kent.

    On Jul 15, 2004, at 6:58 PM, Jamis Buck wrote:

    > Gavin Sinclair wrote:
    >> On Friday, July 16, 2004, 5:25:47 AM, Jamis wrote:
    >>> What I would like is to remove the Oracle client as a dependency,
    >>> just
    >>> as the Oracle JDBC (thin) client does. The thin (as opposed to the
    >>> oci)
    >>> Oracle JDBC client implements in pure Java the network protocols that
    >>> communicate with the Oracle database server.
    >>> This means that the thin client will ultimately be less responsive
    >>> than
    >>> the oci client, but its GREAT for working on your own machine.
    >>> I'm hoping that something like this can be written for Ruby, in Ruby,
    >>> without the need to create an extension module in C to bridge into
    >>> the
    >>> Oracle OCI stuff (which is what the current ruby oracle module does).

    >> Couldn't the thin client be written in C and then wrapped in every
    >> scripting language imaginable? If so, *is* there an Oracle thin
    >> client library written in C already?
    >> Gavin

    >
    > The client *could*, of course be written in C. To my knowledge, such
    > an implementation does not exist. (Might be a neat project, in fact.)
    >
    > However, that still doesn't address the OP's original concern: lack of
    > a compiler made a C extension impractical. A *pure Ruby*
    > implementation would still be most convenient, though not as
    > efficient.
    >
    > --
    > Jamis Buck
    >
    > http://www.jamisbuck.org/jamis
    >
    > "I use octal until I get to 8, and then I switch to decimal."
    >
    Kent Sibilev, Jul 16, 2004
    #16
  17. Ara.T.Howard

    Ron Stephens Guest

    Lennon Day-Reynolds <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > This may sound heretical on a Ruby mailing list, but it sounds like
    > what they need is *not* Ruby. If they're a Java shop, and are using
    > backends (Oracle, LDAP) which are already well-supported on the Java
    > platform, it seems like investing heavily in a C-based language
    > runtime probably won't be in their best interests.
    >
    > I second the earlier recommendation to consider Groovy, and think
    > JRuby could work as well.
    >
    > Lennon


    I'd suggest taking a look at jython.

    Ron Stephens
    http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html
    Ron Stephens, Jul 17, 2004
    #17
  18. On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 06:27, Ron Stephens wrote:
    > I'd suggest taking a look at jython.


    About a month ago I have evaluated all three JVM scripting languages
    mentioned so far (Jruby, Groovy, Jython) to use for unit testing of our
    production Java code.

    In the end, Jython looked like the only thing that could be considered
    for serious work, and even that with caveats. Finally, I concluded to
    stay with the plain old Java.

    Groovy was very far from what I would consider "usable" at that time
    (plenty of interesting bugs, 10 times slower than Jython, core language
    syntax not stabilized).

    Jruby looked better, but lagged two versions behind the parent language,
    and therefore could not run many Ruby apps. E.g., try to build rake with
    it.

    So, my 2 cents worth of advice to any established Java shop would be: go
    for Jython, or stay where you are (plain Java).

    Best regards,
    Alexey Verkhovsky
    Alexey Verkhovsky, Jul 17, 2004
    #18
  19. il Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:17:29 +0900, Alexey Verkhovsky <>
    ha scritto::

    >
    >Jruby looked better, but lagged two versions behind the parent language,
    >and therefore could not run many Ruby apps. E.g., try to build rake with
    >it.


    what do you mean by 'lagged two versions' ?
    The latest versione should be nearly 1.8 compliant, IIRC
    gabriele renzi, Jul 17, 2004
    #19
  20. Re: scripting language

    On 7/17/04 9:17 AM, "Alexey Verkhovsky" <> wrote:

    > On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 06:27, Ron Stephens wrote:
    >> I'd suggest taking a look at jython.

    >
    > About a month ago I have evaluated all three JVM scripting languages
    > mentioned so far (Jruby, Groovy, Jython) to use for unit testing of our
    > production Java code.


    If you want to script your JVM I would HIGHLY recommend JudoScript:

    http://www.judoscript.com/index.html

    Its very stable and I think would meet your needs.

    -rich

    >
    > In the end, Jython looked like the only thing that could be considered
    > for serious work, and even that with caveats. Finally, I concluded to
    > stay with the plain old Java.
    >
    > Groovy was very far from what I would consider "usable" at that time
    > (plenty of interesting bugs, 10 times slower than Jython, core language
    > syntax not stabilized).
    >
    > Jruby looked better, but lagged two versions behind the parent language,
    > and therefore could not run many Ruby apps. E.g., try to build rake with
    > it.
    >
    > So, my 2 cents worth of advice to any established Java shop would be: go
    > for Jython, or stay where you are (plain Java).
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Alexey Verkhovsky
    >
    >
    >
    Richard Kilmer, Jul 17, 2004
    #20
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