sending HTML emails

Discussion in 'HTML' started by shank, Oct 8, 2003.

  1. shank

    shank Guest

    Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML emails?

    I've been sending them for over a year with very few problems while "not"
    using CSS. For the first time today I set an email up with CSS, embedded and
    inline styles. It validated without flaw using www.w3.org. I used
    transitional 4.01. I send my campaign out and receive the email in my own
    outlook express - and it's trashed! Some of the style attributes were just
    ignored. Another thing I noticed is that in code class="xyz" had been
    converted to class=xyz. Obviously, I'm doing something wrong.

    thanks
    shank, Oct 8, 2003
    #1
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  2. "shank" <> wrote in message
    news:1fIgb.18056$...
    > Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML emails?
    >


    How HTML Email Invades Your Privacy
    http://email.about.com/library/weekly/aa121100a.htm?once=true&

    HTML Formatted E-mail Issues
    http://www.admin.mtu.edu/sas/docs/HTMLBad.html

    Why Developers Don't Want HTML Email
    http://evolt.org/article/view/25/781/index.html

    plaintext
    In praise of practical e-mail hygiene
    http://www.netby.dk/Oest/Europa-Alle/vermeer/plain.html

    Security Issues in HTML-based Email
    http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/asrg/02-07-2000.html

    HTML in Email: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    http://www.ibiztips.com/email19FEB01.htm

    HTML Email Isn't Rich
    http://www.evolt.org/article/HTML_Email_Isn_t_Rich/25/53732/

    A Trick to Snoop on E-Mail
    http://www.landfield.com/isn/mail-archive/2001/Feb/0041.html

    Securing Privacy Part Three: E-mail Issues
    http://www.securityfocus.com/printable/infocus/1579

    HTML Email: Whenever Possible, Turn It Off!
    http://www.american.edu/cas/econ/htmlmail.htm

    Plain Text or HTML? Let Your Users Decide
    http://www.sitepoint.com/article/522

    Why HTML Mail Readers Are A Bad Thing (Or, We Know Where You Are)
    http://www.chaosphere.com/blathu/htmlmail.html


    --
    Karl Core

    At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
    cease to be insipid.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
    EightNineThree, Oct 8, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. shank

    shank Guest

    "EightNineThree" <> wrote in message
    news:blvjjg$m54$...
    >
    > "shank" <> wrote in message
    > news:1fIgb.18056$...
    > > Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML

    emails?
    > >

    >
    > How HTML Email Invades Your Privacy
    > http://email.about.com/library/weekly/aa121100a.htm?once=true&
    >
    > HTML Formatted E-mail Issues
    > http://www.admin.mtu.edu/sas/docs/HTMLBad.html
    >
    > Why Developers Don't Want HTML Email
    > http://evolt.org/article/view/25/781/index.html
    >
    > plaintext
    > In praise of practical e-mail hygiene
    > http://www.netby.dk/Oest/Europa-Alle/vermeer/plain.html
    >
    > Security Issues in HTML-based Email
    > http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/asrg/02-07-2000.html
    >
    > HTML in Email: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    > http://www.ibiztips.com/email19FEB01.htm
    >
    > HTML Email Isn't Rich
    > http://www.evolt.org/article/HTML_Email_Isn_t_Rich/25/53732/
    >
    > A Trick to Snoop on E-Mail
    > http://www.landfield.com/isn/mail-archive/2001/Feb/0041.html
    >
    > Securing Privacy Part Three: E-mail Issues
    > http://www.securityfocus.com/printable/infocus/1579
    >
    > HTML Email: Whenever Possible, Turn It Off!
    > http://www.american.edu/cas/econ/htmlmail.htm
    >
    > Plain Text or HTML? Let Your Users Decide
    > http://www.sitepoint.com/article/522
    >
    > Why HTML Mail Readers Are A Bad Thing (Or, We Know Where You Are)
    > http://www.chaosphere.com/blathu/htmlmail.html
    >
    >
    > --
    > Karl Core
    >
    > At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
    > cease to be insipid.
    > Friedrich Nietzsche
    >
    > eightninethree AT eightninethree.com


    Give me a break!
    HTML email is here to stay!
    Deal with it!!!
    shank, Oct 8, 2003
    #3
  4. "shank" <> wrote in message
    news:K7Jgb.18067$...
    >
    > "EightNineThree" <> wrote in message
    > news:blvjjg$m54$...
    > >
    > > "shank" <> wrote in message
    > > news:1fIgb.18056$...
    > > > Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML

    > emails?
    > > >

    <snip links>
    >
    > Give me a break!
    > HTML email is here to stay!
    > Deal with it!!!


    $10 says you didn't even read one of those links.


    --
    Karl Core

    At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
    cease to be insipid.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    eightninethree AT eightninethree.com
    EightNineThree, Oct 8, 2003
    #4
  5. shank

    shank Guest

    "EightNineThree" <> wrote in message
    news:blvn1g$pr7$...
    >
    > "shank" <> wrote in message
    > news:K7Jgb.18067$...
    > >
    > > "EightNineThree" <> wrote in message
    > > news:blvjjg$m54$...
    > > >
    > > > "shank" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:1fIgb.18056$...
    > > > > Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML

    > > emails?
    > > > >

    > <snip links>
    > >
    > > Give me a break!
    > > HTML email is here to stay!
    > > Deal with it!!!

    >
    > $10 says you didn't even read one of those links.
    >


    I read the one titled "The Sky Is Falling... So Go Back To Plain Email..."
    I asked a legitimate question about how to format HTML emails and you find
    it as an opportunity to preach. I have no intention of starting a pissin'
    contest with you over this issue, but if you believe under any circumstances
    that e-commerce is going backwards to plain HTML, you need to stop smoking
    that stuff. I don't buy black/white magazines and I don't buy black/white
    TVs. My emails have color and color is here to stay!
    Have a nice day!
    shank, Oct 8, 2003
    #5
  6. > I read the one titled "The Sky Is Falling... So Go Back To Plain Email..."
    > I asked a legitimate question about how to format HTML emails and you find
    > it as an opportunity to preach.


    893 wasn't preaching.
    Don't take things so personally, take this as advice.

    I'd be surprised if more than 2 people in this newsgroup view HTML email.

    Nick.
    e n | c k m a, Oct 8, 2003
    #6
  7. shank

    John C Guest

    On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 04:28:01 GMT e n | c k m a posted:

    > > I read the one titled "The Sky Is Falling... So Go Back To Plain Email..."
    > > I asked a legitimate question about how to format HTML emails and you find
    > > it as an opportunity to preach.

    >
    > 893 wasn't preaching.
    > Don't take things so personally, take this as advice.
    >
    > I'd be surprised if more than 2 people in this newsgroup view HTML email.
    >
    > Nick.


    And after color there'll be cute little animated gif's and messages about
    needing a flash plug-in and a realaudio plugin and best viewed in Outlook
    Express just click here to upgrade and, uh-oh, I think I'm gonna barf,
    gotta go...

    --
    John C
    John C, Oct 8, 2003
    #7
  8. In article <1fIgb.18056$>,
    says...
    > Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML emails?
    >
    > I've been sending them for over a year with very few problems while "not"
    > using CSS. For the first time today I set an email up with CSS, embedded and
    > inline styles. It validated without flaw using www.w3.org. I used
    > transitional 4.01. I send my campaign out and receive the email in my own
    > outlook express - and it's trashed!


    Er, duh! Didn't you think to send it to yourself first to test it?

    > Some of the style attributes were just
    > ignored. Another thing I noticed is that in code class="xyz" had been
    > converted to class=xyz. Obviously, I'm doing something wrong.


    Yup. Sending HTML mail without a plaintext part.

    --
    Hywel I do not eat quiche
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/mfaq.php
    Hywel Jenkins, Oct 8, 2003
    #8
  9. shank wrote:

    > My emails have color and color is here to stay!


    My plain text e-mails have colour.

    Background is black. Text is white. URLs are blue. Quoted text is green.
    Attachments in red. Most importantly, fonts are in a legible size.

    HTML mail tends to take away my choice of font size and colour.

    Of course, if the HTML was written according to established standards
    *and* accessibility guidelines, things would be better, but it rarely is.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?id=132
    Toby A Inkster, Oct 8, 2003
    #9
  10. shank

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:46:34 GMT, "shank" <>
    wrote:

    >Give me a break!
    >HTML email is here to stay!
    >Deal with it!!!


    You got off lightly

    > > "I send my campaign out and receive the email in my own
    > > outlook express"


    "Campaign" ? IMHO, that smells too much of Spam.
    --
    Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
    Andy Dingley, Oct 8, 2003
    #10
  11. shank wrote:

    > Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML emails?


    http://mailformat.dan.info/body/html.html

    > I've been sending them for over a year with very few problems while "not"
    > using CSS. For the first time today I set an email up with CSS, embedded and
    > inline styles. It validated without flaw using www.w3.org. I used
    > transitional 4.01. I send my campaign out and receive the email in my own
    > outlook express - and it's trashed! Some of the style attributes were just
    > ignored. Another thing I noticed is that in code class="xyz" had been
    > converted to class=xyz. Obviously, I'm doing something wrong.


    You don't mention what program you used to *send* the mail; perhaps the
    outbound program was responsible for "mangling" your code before it went
    out?

    --
    == Dan ==
    Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
    Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
    Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/
    Daniel R. Tobias, Oct 8, 2003
    #11
  12. shank wrote:

    >Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML emails?
    >
    > ...
    >

    Rule one: don't send them to me. The second I see HTML starting to display
    when I open an email, I hit "stop" in a hurry and do a virus scan soon
    after.
    If someone wants me to have the _opportunity_ to see something generated
    with HTML, they can send me an email with a link in it, which I might click
    on if I really trust that person.

    Rule two: forget rule one if you operate in a closed community where
    everyone trusts everyone else and is scrupulous about not passing on any
    messages from outside.
    Anthony Buckland, Oct 8, 2003
    #12
  13. Anthony Buckland wrote:
    > shank wrote:
    >
    >> Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML
    >> emails?
    >>
    >> ...
    >>

    > Rule one: don't send them to me. The second I see HTML starting to
    > display when I open an email, I hit "stop" in a hurry and do a virus
    > scan soon after.



    Doesn't your mail client have the option to display all incoming as plain
    text?

    --
    William Tasso - http://WilliamTasso.com
    William Tasso, Oct 8, 2003
    #13
  14. shank

    Ben Guest

    shank wrote:
    > using CSS. For the first time today I set an email up with CSS, embedded and
    > inline styles. It validated without flaw using www.w3.org. I used
    > transitional 4.01. I send my campaign out and receive the email in my own
    > outlook express - and it's trashed! Some of the style attributes were just
    > ignored. Another thing I noticed is that in code class="xyz" had been
    > converted to class=xyz. Obviously, I'm doing something wrong.


    I occasionally highlight a web page and paste it into OE and email it to
    myself (I use both Mozilla Mail and OE btw). I have found recently
    though that it does not take into account CSS at all so on CSS sites I
    lose the formating which is a real downer.

    regards,
    Ben

    --
    BTW. I can be contacted at Username:newsgroup4.replies.benaltw
    Domain:xoxy.net
    Ben, Oct 8, 2003
    #14
  15. Ben wrote:
    >
    > I occasionally highlight a web page and paste it into OE and email it
    > to myself (I use both Mozilla Mail and OE btw). I have found recently
    > though that it does not take into account CSS at all so on CSS sites I
    > lose the formating which is a real downer.
    >


    that's the cut/paste which is failing to 'get' the css - not your mail
    client(s)

    --
    William Tasso - http://WilliamTasso.com
    William Tasso, Oct 8, 2003
    #15
  16. shank

    Ben Guest

    William Tasso wrote:
    > Ben wrote:
    >
    >>I occasionally highlight a web page and paste it into OE and email it
    >>to myself (I use both Mozilla Mail and OE btw). I have found recently
    >>though that it does not take into account CSS at all so on CSS sites I
    >>lose the formating which is a real downer.
    >>

    >
    >
    > that's the cut/paste which is failing to 'get' the css - not your mail
    > client(s)
    >


    IE is pretty good at cutting and then pasting into OE which is not the
    case with Mozilla Mail and Browser. But IE has not been set up for
    copying pages with CSS unfortunately.

    --
    BTW. I can be contacted at Username:newsgroup4.replies.benaltw
    Domain:xoxy.net
    Ben, Oct 8, 2003
    #16
  17. shank

    andy johnson Guest

    On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:46:05 GMT, "shank" <>
    wrote:

    >Where can I find any specials rules or cautions when creating HTML emails?
    >
    >I've been sending them for over a year with very few problems while "not"
    >using CSS. For the first time today I set an email up with CSS, embedded and
    >inline styles. It validated without flaw using www.w3.org. I used
    >transitional 4.01. I send my campaign out and receive the email in my own
    >outlook express - and it's trashed! Some of the style attributes were just
    >ignored. Another thing I noticed is that in code class="xyz" had been
    >converted to class=xyz. Obviously, I'm doing something wrong.
    >
    >thanks
    >

    EVERYBODY I know, family, friends, work, you name it, has HTML turned
    off. When you spammers send email, the ones that get by the filters
    get added to the kill filter list. Screw you people. You are the
    reason what could have been a nice thing has fallen into disuse.
    -
    Andy

    "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
    didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
    - (Calvin and Hobbes) (this email addy is never checked...)
    andy johnson, Oct 9, 2003
    #17
  18. Ben wrote:

    > IE is pretty good at cutting and then pasting into OE which is not the
    > case with Mozilla Mail and Browser. But IE has not been set up for
    > copying pages with CSS unfortunately.


    In Mozilla, File > Send Page.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?id=132
    Toby A Inkster, Oct 9, 2003
    #18
  19. shank

    Ben Guest

    Toby A Inkster wrote:
    > Ben wrote:
    >
    >
    >>IE is pretty good at cutting and then pasting into OE which is not the
    >>case with Mozilla Mail and Browser. But IE has not been set up for
    >>copying pages with CSS unfortunately.

    >
    >
    > In Mozilla, File > Send Page.


    Thanks for that. I'll have to experiment with it. One of the advantages
    of the Ie/OE way though is the ability of modifying or adding text to
    the page you pasted as well. I can copy part of a table for example and
    paste it in to the email to myself. Mozilla allows you to copy tables,
    but does not allow partial tables which can be a bother.

    regards,
    Ben


    --
    BTW. I can be contacted at Username:newsgroup4.replies.benaltw
    Domain:xoxy.net
    Ben, Oct 9, 2003
    #19
  20. shank

    shank Guest

    > >
    > EVERYBODY I know, family, friends, work, you name it, has HTML turned
    > off. When you spammers send email, the ones that get by the filters
    > get added to the kill filter list. Screw you people. You are the
    > reason what could have been a nice thing has fallen into disuse.
    > -
    > Andy


    I was determined to stay out of this message thread until this moron got
    involved. I admin the mail accounts for some 30 employees for 10+ years.
    They all have HTML turned on! I filter some 5,000 spam emails at the domain
    level every week. The only time we've had problems is when a user clicked
    onto an attachment. Apparently, idiots like yourselves. I do not subscribe
    to the "sky is falling" religion you select few have chosen. Correct!
    "Select few." I personally do not know of anyone that has HTML turned off.
    We live in a colorful world and choose to see color. We use it for proofing
    and emphasizing ideas and instruction. Color is here and it's staying!

    Through your own little cult thinking I have now been labeled a spammer. We
    have 18,000 subscribers that we email twice a week. More sign up every week,
    some unsubscribe or bounce every week. Regardless, in 6 years we've been
    accused of spamming twice. Both from morons like yourselves who pounce on
    the opportunity to inflame a situation because your lives are pathetic and
    boring.

    Be assured that if you were admin of my company, you'd be on the street in a
    hurry! If you cannot keep your local machines safe in an HTML world, what
    the hell good are you? We embrace technology and welcome it!!! Wake up and
    get a life people! There's a great big world out there. Check it out
    someday!

    When you throw mud - expect to catch a bit yourselves!
    shank, Oct 9, 2003
    #20
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