should i move on to python3

Discussion in 'Python' started by Wensui Liu, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. Wensui Liu

    Wensui Liu Guest

    i started learning python with earlier version and am happy with it
    and all related packages, such as scipy, pywin, and so on.
    right now, i am wondering if i should move to python3. if i do, will
    all packages working on earlier version still work in python3? this is
    my major concern.
    my another question is how many python users will move to python3.

    any insight?
    thanks a lot.
    Wensui Liu, Mar 7, 2009
    #1
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  2. Wensui Liu wrote:
    > i started learning python with earlier version and am happy with it
    > and all related packages, such as scipy, pywin, and so on.
    > right now, i am wondering if i should move to python3. if i do, will
    > all packages working on earlier version still work in python3? this is
    > my major concern.

    I wouldn't bet on it
    > my another question is how many python users will move to python3.

    Eventually all of them.
    >
    > any insight?

    Well I don't have insight in the mind of the core developers, but I
    think you could compare it with any other major software upgrade.
    Think of it like people upgrading from windows NT4 to 2000, some
    software works some not, some people are happy with NT4 others prefer to
    keep up with current technology. Look at it like py3 is 2000 before the
    first service pack, internally it works, could need some polishing but
    that's about it. The things that don't work are more often caused by
    third parties then the core development.
    > thanks a lot.

    If you want to be more on the safe side, I would say wait for 3.2 or
    even 3.3 . More specific, wait till the external module developers (the
    ones you use) say it is stable on Py3

    --
    mph
    Martin P. Hellwig, Mar 7, 2009
    #2
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  3. "Martin P. Hellwig" <> wrote:
    > Wensui Liu wrote:
    > > i started learning python with earlier version and am happy with it
    > > and all related packages, such as scipy, pywin, and so on.
    > > right now, i am wondering if i should move to python3. if i do, will
    > > all packages working on earlier version still work in python3? this is
    > > my major concern.

    >
    > I wouldn't bet on it
    >
    > > my another question is how many python users will move to python3.

    >
    > Eventually all of them.
    >
    > > any insight?

    >
    > Well I don't have insight in the mind of the core developers, but I
    > think you could compare it with any other major software upgrade.
    > Think of it like people upgrading from windows NT4 to 2000, some
    > software works some not, some people are happy with NT4 others prefer to
    > keep up with current technology. Look at it like py3 is 2000 before the
    > first service pack, internally it works, could need some polishing but
    > that's about it. The things that don't work are more often caused by
    > third parties then the core development.


    Comparing Python releases to Windows releases is...disturbing :)

    > > thanks a lot.

    >
    > If you want to be more on the safe side, I would say wait for 3.2 or
    > even 3.3 . More specific, wait till the external module developers (the
    > ones you use) say it is stable on Py3


    As of 3.1 (which fixes the speed problems of the new io package),
    I think the only reason not to move to python3 will be any
    dependency one might have on 3rd party packages that haven't
    themselves made the switch yet. Of course, that will be a big
    issue for some time to come for many people.

    --
    R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com
    R. David Murray, Mar 7, 2009
    #3
  4. R. David Murray wrote:
    <cut>
    > Comparing Python releases to Windows releases is...disturbing :)

    That was why I was very carefully in this example for choosing 2000 :)

    --
    mph
    Martin P. Hellwig, Mar 7, 2009
    #4
  5. Maybe if everyone shares their own thinking for their own situations
    it may help.

    I know the 2.x branch rather well, and cut my teeth on it.

    My work involves x509 cryptographic materials and I cut my own
    binaries and then wrap them in python to extend and enhance or build a
    lot of automation around the binaries. I am the primary consumer of
    the final programs so I don't wrap them in any sort of GUI. As such my
    python touchpoints are rather slim on libraries. It took me all my
    life up to a month ago to move off of os.popen and onto subprocess.
    With this I could move between Python branches without much issue. I
    do have an Ubuntu system at work as well as Windows so I'm a lazy sod
    who didn't feel like building a custom Python build so I jus use what
    comes with Ubuntu. Because of this I am stuck with a tenuous small
    reliance on the 2.x branch, very small but add in lazy or not wanting
    to use up xyz hours preparing new environments and learning a new
    idioms and you might get the typical python user who encorporates it
    at a job function where programming is not their job function but they
    use python to help make the job eaier in a few areas.

    I use more 3rd party modules at home and use the OS X platform
    exclusively there. I wish I had time with the family but a lot of my
    projects have been left by the wayside (web page scraping, games and
    opengl programming, etc). Unlike Windows, tkinter GUI programs on OS X
    could look native-ish. I always have aversions to making GUI programs
    for distribution that require users install large dependencies so I
    have shied away from doing them. With 3.1 it looks like themed tk
    support is now added so that could be an incentive. That and I
    silently troll python submitters and got the feeling 3.1 was what 3.0
    was supposed to be ;-) so I been silently waking for 3.1 to go final
    before spending time with the 3 branch to learn the changes.

    In short if it's just you using your programs you have a lot of
    flexibility in your choice of branch to use. If you distribute then
    you are restricted by your end user branch sets even more. If you
    heavily use 3rd party modules you are tied down further. So work
    backwards and decide what is it you at writting, what features
    internal and external are you using or desire to use and who will
    consume your program. Then you'll have your answer or pretty close to
    it.

    Cheers,
    PN
    On 08/03/2009, Martin P. Hellwig <> wrote:
    > R. David Murray wrote:
    > <cut>
    >> Comparing Python releases to Windows releases is...disturbing :)

    > That was why I was very carefully in this example for choosing 2000 :)
    >
    > --
    > mph
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >
    Python Nutter, Mar 7, 2009
    #5
  6. Wensui Liu

    Terry Reedy Guest

    Python Nutter wrote:

    > silently troll python submitters and got the feeling 3.1 was what 3.0
    > was supposed to be ;-)


    I would say that it will be what the developers wish 3.0 had been. Part
    of the problem was that not enough people downloaded and tested the 3.0
    betas to discover certain problems before the release.

    > so I been silently waking for 3.1 to go final
    > before spending time with the 3 branch to learn the changes.


    You will, of course, then have to take what you get ;-). If you have
    any unusual uses, please consider trying them out on a beta release.

    tjr
    Terry Reedy, Mar 7, 2009
    #6
  7. Wensui Liu

    Mensanator Guest

    On Mar 7, 5:09�pm, Terry Reedy <> wrote:
    > Python Nutter wrote:
    > > silently troll python submitters and got the feeling 3.1 was what 3.0
    > > was supposed to be ;-)

    >
    > I would say that it will be what the developers wish 3.0 had been. �Part
    > of the problem was that not enough people downloaded and tested the 3.0
    > betas to discover certain problems before the release.


    That's the old chicken/egg question. People who depend on
    third party libraries can't test beta versions of 3.0,
    can they?

    Nothing anybody can do anything about, just a comment.

    >
    > �> so I been silently waking for 3.1 to go final
    >
    > > before spending time with the 3 branch to learn the changes.

    >
    > You will, of course, then have to take what you get ;-). �If you have
    > any unusual uses, please consider trying them out on a beta release.
    >
    > tjr
    Mensanator, Mar 8, 2009
    #7
  8. Wensui Liu

    Tim Wintle Guest

    On Sun, 2009-03-08 at 09:15 +1100, Python Nutter wrote:
    > Maybe if everyone shares their own thinking for their own situations
    > it may help.


    Well, at work I do a mixture of things, some of which require python 2.3
    (I know...), and some of which I can write to whatever version I want. I
    generally use 2.5 for the second group. This is all work that runs live
    all the time and has money running through it, so I'd rather not risk
    moving to 3 for *any* of it until:

    a) any security holes in python 3 have been fixed
    b) it costs me more to stick with 2.x than to go through all of my code
    line by line.

    At home I normally write code for 2.5, as that's what comes with Ubuntu
    Hardy (on my main, stable, machine), and most users will have 2.5 or 2.6
    for quite a long time. For projects that are released, I'm planning to
    stick to the advice Guido gave at Europython and keep working on 2.5/2.6
    in trunk, but automatically generate a 3.x branch using 2to3.


    I think it's going to be a bit like Java's JVMs (I can barely write
    Java, but I use some Java projects) - I've got Java 5 and 6 running
    different applications side by side here. In fact, I've got Sun's JVM
    for 6 and 5, and IBM's JDK for Java 5 all running.

    Similarly, on various machines I use CPython 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6 and
    Jython 2.2 for various reasons - and I'm certainly planning on using
    PyPy a large amount once it's stable.

    I used the Beta of 3.0, but to be honest I haven't used it for anything
    "proper" yet.

    Tim Wintle
    Tim Wintle, Mar 8, 2009
    #8
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