Should I revise chaotic content?

[SEO Dave]

I have been teaching myself web design for the past year. I am re-designing
a fairly popular website at the moment. The website is very chaotic looking
because the original author wrote the home page with many spelling errors
and redundancies (repeated key words) in an attempt to get a high search
engine ranking. The site is highly ranked on Google when searching for
those search words.

Hi,

So the above technique worked. The above tends to only work in two
situations.

1. The misspellings (or over used phrases) have little or no
competition, so adding a misspelt word a couple of times on a page is
enough for a good ranking.

2. The page has high page rank (PR8) so even if the misspellings are
competitive it does well.

My question is: I want to redesign the site with a clean look, proper
English sentences, and proper spelling. Will this affect its search engine
rankings negatively?

Most likely answer is yes. The main component of SEO for Google right
now is links, specifically the anchor text of the links to a page.
After that we have what's actually on the page.

With misspellings it tends to be the latter that's important.

It's reasonable to assume (without a site to see) that there are no
links to the home page using the misspellings (as anchor text), so any
SERPs for those misspellings are a result of what's in the body
content only.

If you remove that content there is then no reason why Google should
still rank the page for those phrases.

Common sense really.

My thought is that major businesses don't write
rambling sentences that have spelling errors and redundancies but they still
get high search engine rankings.

Any advice? Should I leave the content alone, or rewrite it into clear and
concise English? I don't want the search engine rankings to go down or it
will be a failed project.

If you change the content the SERPs will change eventually (might be 4
months before you loose the SERPs).

There are ways to add content to a page without a visitor seeing it
easily. Some are completely safe others are risky and to be avoided
(cloaking comes to mind).

For a safe example you can link non linking images to a web page (turn
them into an image link) and add the misspelling to the alt attribute.
Since the only way for a visitor to see this text is by hovering over
the image it doesn't stand out as much as body text.

Be aware alt text of linking images is indexed and counts towards
SERPs, non linked images do not.

So if there are existing images on the home page that are not links,
turn them into links and add the misspelling there.

Then there is always adding new links to the page with the anchor text
of the misspelling. Like Google Bombs add enough links to a page using
the same anchor text and that page will rank high for words not on the
page (see Miserable Failure SERP for a good example).

Another way (that I don't like or use) is a text marquee. Have it
scroll so slowly that it never gets to the misspellings.

And of course you could always build new pages for the misspellings.
So either create one page with them all on (if not very competitive)
or better yet one page for each misspelling. Give these pages enough
links for them to compete (you'll discover how many by trial and
error). Since these will be deep content pages it's likely only those
searching for the misspellings will see them.

If you aren't concerned about risk then there is cloaking, noframes
and noscript areas. I wouldn't advise this though.

Thank you.

David

 

[SEO Dave]

If you spell things correctly and write well, then more people will like
the site. If more people like the site, more people will link to it. If
more people link to it, it will go up in Google.

Except if most of the SERPs are gained from misspellings and you
remove them and so loose the SERPs, no one will find the new great
content to link too )

Also not really relevant for most commerce sites. Hardly anyone will
link to an online shop naturally.

David

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

For a safe example you can link non linking images to a web page (turn
them into an image link) and add the misspelling to the alt attribute.
Since the only way for a visitor to see this text is by hovering over
the image it doesn't stand out as much as body text.

Some of the worst advice I've heard all month. Alternate text is just
that: text to be used instead of -- as an alternate form of -- the image
when it can't be displayed for some reason. A few obsolete browsers get
that wrong and use it for tooltips and the like, but that's what the
title attribute is for.

Do you really want to make people using text browsers, speech browsers,
or with images disabled see a random soup of meaningless keywords? Do
you really expect Google not to notice your keyword spam eventually?

 

[SpaceGirl]

Non-English writing ... I do not understand, what you mean with this. Should
I?

Michael G. Schneider

Dont worry honey, I was just picking on you. Your English seems a
little... odd. Which is why your post was accidentally ironic?
Considering I cant write or speak any other languages I should shut up.

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[SpaceGirl]

Hi,

So the above technique worked. The above tends to only work in two
situations.

1. The misspellings (or over used phrases) have little or no
competition, so adding a misspelt word a couple of times on a page is
enough for a good ranking.

2. The page has high page rank (PR8) so even if the misspellings are
competitive it does well.




Most likely answer is yes. The main component of SEO for Google right
now is links, specifically the anchor text of the links to a page.
After that we have what's actually on the page.

With misspellings it tends to be the latter that's important.

It's reasonable to assume (without a site to see) that there are no
links to the home page using the misspellings (as anchor text), so any
SERPs for those misspellings are a result of what's in the body
content only.

If you remove that content there is then no reason why Google should
still rank the page for those phrases.

Common sense really.




If you change the content the SERPs will change eventually (might be 4
months before you loose the SERPs).

There are ways to add content to a page without a visitor seeing it
easily. Some are completely safe others are risky and to be avoided
(cloaking comes to mind).

For a safe example you can link non linking images to a web page (turn
them into an image link) and add the misspelling to the alt attribute.
Since the only way for a visitor to see this text is by hovering over
the image it doesn't stand out as much as body text.

Be aware alt text of linking images is indexed and counts towards
SERPs, non linked images do not.

So if there are existing images on the home page that are not links,
turn them into links and add the misspelling there.

Then there is always adding new links to the page with the anchor text
of the misspelling. Like Google Bombs add enough links to a page using
the same anchor text and that page will rank high for words not on the
page (see Miserable Failure SERP for a good example).

Another way (that I don't like or use) is a text marquee. Have it
scroll so slowly that it never gets to the misspellings.

And of course you could always build new pages for the misspellings.
So either create one page with them all on (if not very competitive)
or better yet one page for each misspelling. Give these pages enough
links for them to compete (you'll discover how many by trial and
error). Since these will be deep content pages it's likely only those
searching for the misspellings will see them.

If you aren't concerned about risk then there is cloaking, noframes
and noscript areas. I wouldn't advise this though.




David

Wow... that is just stupid. *shakes her head* Did you really think about
that before posting here?

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Michael G. Schneider]

Your English seems a little... odd.

I'd be glad to hear some details.

Any specific sentences, that were completely wrong regarding grammar? Any
sentences, that a natively English speaking person could not understand?

Michael G. Schneider

 

[SpaceGirl]

I'd be glad to hear some details.

Any specific sentences, that were completely wrong regarding grammar? Any
sentences, that a natively English speaking person could not understand?

Michael G. Schneider

"I would not advise to write incorrect English for gaining high Google
ranking."

That really doesn't read well. A double negative (would not ...
incorrect...) is very confusing in written English.

"But you should be aware of the fact, that Google is not very strong
in grammatical rules."

You've used a comma (which means "pause for breath") - it wasn't really
needed and just caused the sentence to read strangely.

"So you should help Google in understanding your
message."

Very formal!

"Be aware of Google's minimal semantical analysis of your page and
with this knowledge in mind, write your text in correct English."

Again a bit trippy.

But don't take this too negatively. I've no idea what your native
language is, and I like I said, I cannot speak or write any other
languages!

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Eric Johnston]

I have been teaching myself web design for the past year. I am
re-designing a fairly popular website at the moment. The website is
very chaotic looking because the original author wrote the home page
with many spelling errors and redundancies (repeated key words) in an
attempt to get a high search engine ranking. The site is highly
ranked on Google when searching for those search words.

My question is: I want to redesign the site with a clean look, proper
English sentences, and proper spelling. Will this affect its search
engine rankings negatively? My thought is that major businesses
don't write rambling sentences that have spelling errors and
redundancies but they still get high search engine rankings.

Any advice? Should I leave the content alone, or rewrite it into
clear and concise English? I don't want the search engine rankings
to go down or it will be a failed project.

Thank you.

Tidying up the visible English on just the home page will probably not do
you much harm and it will give a better first impression to the visitor who
arrives at the home page, but bear in mind that if you are already highly
ranked you can only go down rather than than up, so take great care. If in
doubt, don't fiddle around with something that is already working well. I
suggest you access http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html , print
it out and stick in on the wall in front of you.
Best regards, Eric. ( Unqualified SEO )

 

[Michael G. Schneider]

Thank's a a lot for this English Lesson. I really should not try to argue,
just some remarks...

"I would not advise to write incorrect English for gaining high
Google ranking."

That really doesn't read well. A double negative (would not ...
incorrect...) is very confusing in written English.

We might discuss, whether this really is a double negation. I think it is a
simple negation with an adverb having a negative touch. A true double
negation would have been "I would not advise to not write correct
English...".

Anyway, the statement "I advise to write correct English for gaining high
Google ranking" is not what I wanted to say.

Maybe I should have said "Do not write incorrect English for gaining high
Google ranking".

"But you should be aware of the fact, that Google is not very strong
in grammatical rules."

You've used a comma (which means "pause for breath") - it wasn't really
needed and just caused the sentence to read strangely.

Unfortunately I have never learned where to put commas when writing in
English. In my native language this comma is absolutely necessary. It
separates the main clause from the subordinate clause.

"So you should help Google in understanding your
message."

Very formal!
Fine!


"Be aware of Google's minimal semantical analysis of your page and
with this knowledge in mind, write your text in correct English."

Again a bit trippy.

Unfortunately I do not know "trippy". And the dictionary doesn't list this
word.

But don't take this too negatively. I've no idea what your native language
is, and I like I said, I cannot speak or write any other languages!

I am always happy to learn, even English in a SEO forum.

My native language is German. And maybe my SEO-related statements in this
thread only apply to the German language.

Michael G. Schneider

 

[SpaceGirl]

Thank's a a lot for this English Lesson. I really should not try to argue,
just some remarks...

I'm far from always right...! But, I am a writer

Anyway, the statement "I advise to write correct English for gaining high
Google ranking" is not what I wanted to say.

Maybe I should have said "Do not write incorrect English for gaining high
Google ranking".

It still reads to formal for me; "I wouldn't advice writing incorrect
English..." is more concise, and easier to read.

Unfortunately I have never learned where to put commas when writing in
English. In my native language this comma is absolutely necessary. It
separates the main clause from the subordinate clause.

Imagine you are speaking English. Where would you pause for a breath?
Those are the most likely places for commas.

Unfortunately I do not know "trippy". And the dictionary doesn't list this
word.

Trippy as in "weird". It makes sense, but seems oddly formal, or perhaps
twisted.

I am always happy to learn, even English in a SEO forum.

heheh okay.

My native language is German. And maybe my SEO-related statements in this
thread only apply to the German language.

Well, I know almost no German, so there you go.


--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Michael G. Schneider]

Michael G. Schneider wrote:

Well, I know almost no German, so there you go.

After all this off-topic, maybe I should give some samples of what I meant.

Google does not understand your page, it simply looks for words and tries to
match these words, if somebody else is searching for them.

If you want to concentrate on the keyword "car", you should always use that
word. Do not use any other word, which is a synonym for car. For example do
not use "automobile". Google does not know, that both are actually the same.

Do not try any grammatical variations of your keywords. If you think, that a
customer is searching for car, do not use the plural "cars".

I do not know the correct English expression for it, but a noun can be used
in different ways, as in

- The car is big.
- The car's tires are round.
- I give the car some gas.
- I hit the car.
- ...

In English most of these variations are the same. In German they are mostly
different. And Google does not know, that they all relate to the same word.

Also verbs can have variations. They can be active / passive as in "I hit my
brother" vs. "I am hit by my brother". And they can belong to different
subjects (I, you, he, she, it, we,...) as in "I hit", "you hit".... Again,
in English they are mostly the same. I German they are different. And Google
does not know that they belong together.

These and several more rules of this kind lead to writing pages in a way,
which makes it easy for Google. But this means throwing away much of a
language's features.

Michael G. Schneider

 

[Jez]

It still reads to formal for me; "I wouldn't advice writing incorrect
English..." is more concise, and easier to read.

Shouldn't that be "too formal for me"? ;-)

Jez.

 

[Els]

Shouldn't that be "too formal for me"? ;-)

Of course, but then it should also be advise, not advice, which
is the noun, not the verb

 

[Ron Burk]

Thank's a a lot for this English Lesson.

Pay no attention to amateur editors. The English
was fine.

We might discuss, whether this really is a double negation.

Yes, there were two negatives. No, it doesn't matter.
The meaning was absolutely clear. Bad editors invoke
rules as a substitute for judgement. Yes, "advise to write"
is not a common expression. No, it should not be changed. Bad
editors try to make everyone sound like themselves; good
editors leave the author's voice intact where it does not
interfere with understanding or violate basic grammar.

Unfortunately I have never learned where to put
commas when writing in English.

And it's not worth making it a high priority, as the
convention for commas has changed vigorously throughout
the life of the language (with the general trend being
less commas everywhere). Yes, a copyeditor would have
removed the comma (but a hundred years ago probably
would've added a couple). But this is a friggin'
newsgroup, not a doctoral thesis, and not even
alt.editors.cranky.

We now resume our regular programming, which
probably wasn't much better than this, come to
think of it.

 

[Ron Burk]

I don't want the search engine rankings to go down or it

will be a failed project.

The key phrase in your post. Nobody here knows
Google's algorithm, so nobody here can tell
you whether any particular change you propose
to those pages will result in a "failed project".

OTOH, if you leave the current content alone
long enough, the odds are pretty good that sooner
or later your SERPs will go down naturally (dare
I say "organically"?). So, you could just prepare the
revised content and wait until life is already starting
to suck before you slam it in. That way, you can
invoke the "ain't no good the way it is" clause and
avoid the stench of failure, even if the rankings
don't come back up.

 

[Toby Inkster]

What is this, the alt.html away day?

The thread is being cross-posted.

PS: I follow my own advice and am currently first hit on Google for
"Inkster", ahead of:

- Inkster, Michigan, a town with a population of over 48000;
- Juli Inkster, a very successful golfer, the first person, male or
female, to win three consecutive US Amateur titles (1980-1982);
- Inkster, the font; and
- my father, Ian Inkster, author of about 12 books for sale on Amazon (and
various others out of print).

and, yadda, yadda, plenty of other Inksters... a total of 214,000 results.

Why? Because I create (some) decent content that people link to. That's it.

 

[Big Bill]

Dont worry honey, I was just picking on you. Your English seems a
little... odd.

That's because he's a little...Danish.

BB


www.kruse.co.uk Established SEO.

 

[Big Bill]

Hi Bill,

Out of curiousity, how does qualify as an SEO? Is it a formal qualification
or based on X amount of experience?

Cheers

Deryck

I qualified through the now defunct Academy of Web Specialists. The
same folk who ran that, Robin Nobles and John Alexander, run Search
Engine Workshops which do the same thing. Kalena Jordan does a short
course for SME folk who want to do their own, and no doubt there are
others. I personally feel that doing such a course will realistically
only convince you that no way are you going to learn in a few days
what others have learned over years. Experience counts a great deal.
So go ahead and do a course or three if you want to, just don't come
out of them thinking now you know it all. You won't. But you'll know a
lot more than when you went in.

BB
www.kruse.co.uk Established SEO.

 

[Big Bill]

Pay no attention to amateur editors. The English
was fine.


Yes, there were two negatives. No, it doesn't matter.
The meaning was absolutely clear. Bad editors invoke
rules as a substitute for judgement. Yes, "advise to write"
is not a common expression. No, it should not be changed. Bad
editors try to make everyone sound like themselves; good
editors leave the author's voice intact where it does not
interfere with understanding or violate basic grammar.


And it's not worth making it a high priority, as the
convention for commas has changed vigorously throughout
the life of the language (with the general trend being
less commas everywhere). Yes, a copyeditor would have
removed the comma (but a hundred years ago probably
would've added a couple). But this is a friggin'
newsgroup, not a doctoral thesis, and not even
alt.editors.cranky.

We now resume our regular programming, which
probably wasn't much better than this, come to
think of it.

I was going to add;
"eats (pauses for breath) shoots Space Girl (pauses for breath) and
leaves. But hey! - like I'd know from grammar. Or punctuation.
Whatever.

BB

www.kruse.co.uk Established SEO.

 

[Big Bill]

Content on the home page doesn't carry much weight? It already has at least
25 incoming links and is ranked highly in Google for its searchwords. I'm
just worried about the ranking going down if I change the text content.

It's possible that it will. It's also possible that it will improve.
It's possible that Google will have ceased to exist tomorrow. What do
you want from us, a guarantee we cannot give?

BB

www.kruse.co.uk Established SEO.