Should I?

L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Art Sackett said:
About that, I don't know. I know that our current resident of the White
House holds the record as the killingest state governor in history,
back when he was the governor of Texas.


Are you against the use of death penalty?
I mean that it might be effective, but it would also be quite
dangerous.


True enough -- but it's quite popular here in the US. I spent over $2k
online in October.


There is also an additional problem, that is to ensure that a contract is
valid and not only that a ware or a service is paid.
too?

It's common for credit card companies to volunteer that information to
law enforcement with no court order or even a good reason presented.
But no one is required to carry a credit card at all times, or to
present it upon demand. It's a voluntary act, whereas a national ID
card would be mandatory, and would be used to tie together the data
that is now fragmented in databases all over the country. With all of
that data in one place, a data entry error or a database corruption
could render one unable to travel via aircraft, ineligible to vote, or
even land one in jail.


Well, first we must understand that not all software is developed by
entities with the profit motive. For example, right here on my
workstation, I can think of only two non-free components: the JVM and
the Flash plugin for my browser. Everything else, up to and including
the operating system kernel, is mine to do with as I please, within
certain reasonable limits. I can not only view the source code, I can
modify it to my heart's content. I can sell it or give it away. I don't
have to ask anyone's permission to do any of these things, and I didn't
have to pay to get these rights. I didn't pay for any of this software,
so it's free in both the gratis sense, and the libre sense.

Did Sun give you the source code for their Java Virtual Machine? If you
got your hands on it, could you modify it or redistribute it without
even asking Sun's permission? The answer to all of these questions is a
resounding "NO!"

If you're curious about the operating system I'm using, pay a visit to
http://www.debian.org/ -- it's not the only Linux around, but it's what
I've been using since '96 and I'm quite happy with it. It's very, very
stable and reliable; a machine I remotely administer has delivered
100.00% uptime for just two weeks shy of four years. It kinda begs the
question, "Why pay for an operating system that's inferior to the free
ones?", I think. I could be wrong.


If you use Linux it is difficult to find softwares which suit it, isn´t it?
Most are compatible to Microsoft´s
 
A

Art Sackett

Mark Parnell said:
From what I've heard, Debian is quite difficult to install and configure
compared to other flavours of Linux.

Historically, installation was the big roadblock to widespread adoption
of Debian, but the installation "disk" (that's not necessarily a disk
of its own) that's coming out now makes that difficulty go away. It's
in the current testing version ("sarge") which will very soon move into
the stable distribution. If you're a Linux user who'd like to give
Debian a try, sarge is quite usable now -- I've been using it for many
moons already, even on a server I built and deployed a year ago, which
I remotely administer. sarge has given me no problems, here or out in
the world.

After the base system installation, the installer (old or new) gives
you the option to select from a list of predefined tasks, such as
"desktop", "server", etc. for which this machine will be used, or to
manually select individual packages to be installed. Most users on
their first adventure would want to just select the appropriate tasks
and let the installer set everything up.

Configuration is a walk in the park, for certain definitions of
"configuration". Most of the programs you'd install via any package
installation tool that require configuration will drop you, at install
time, into some kind of a configurator. Sometimes it's just a prompt
and reply shell script, other times it's a full-on curses interface
with all of the most common options presented in multiple-guess format
with a usually sensible default.

Even the hard stuff goes in pretty easily; you can install an SMTP
server from a Debian package (Exim, Courier, etc.) and the configurator
will ask you a few (I think it's five) questions to get it minimally
configured, then start the thing up for you. For a home setup, you
could probably get by with just that -- for anything more demanding,
you'd want to actually know about the MTA you'd chosen and how to do
the low level configuration. This is true of any MTA in any
distribution, though, so it's not a Debian-specific thing.

Maintaining Debian once installed is very, very easy. Want a new
package installed? Just:

apt-get install <package name>

That's it. All dependencies and/or conflicts are automagically resolved
on the fly.

Didn't like that package, want it gone?

apt-get remove <package name>

Or, to take all of its configuration files out, too:

apt-get remove --purge <package name>

Want to update all of the softare on your system?

apt-get update; apt-get upgrade

It just doesn't get any easier than that.

I believe that the new install disk(s) will make that "hard to install"
complaint a historical sidenote. Maintenance after installation has
always been Debian's strong point, so once it's in, it's easy to keep
it going.
 
A

Art Sackett

Mitja said:
Debian was the first linux I installed

:) Me, too. And before dselect was available! Ya had to really want
it then, and I did. I was sick to death of micro$oft. Now, I wish I'd
never met windoze.
Now I'm back to Debian, and happy with it :)

That was my experience, too. I tried several other distributions at
various times, and always went back to Debian. The last thing I want to
do is thrash about trying to resolve dependencies, when there's a
perfectly good package manager available to do that low-level stuff for
me!
 
A

Art Sackett

Luigi Donatello Asero said:
Are you against the use of death penalty?

I'm ambivalent, very very ambivalent.

I mean, if I were to catch someone in the act of doing grave harm to a
member of my immediate family, I'd impose my own death penalty right on
the spot. On the other hand, I believe that in many states (such as
Texas under GWB) it is overused and that there are too few protections
in place. I believe that GWB was so quick to use it because it was
popular, and he wanted to be seen as "tough on crime". Such is the
danger in a paternalistic state.
There is also an additional problem, that is to ensure that a contract is
valid and not only that a ware or a service is paid.

Even in face-to-face transactions, there is the danger that the
contract is not valid. There is no guarantee of total protection in the
marketplace, as much as we'd like to have it.
If you use Linux it is difficult to find softwares which suit it, isn?t it?

Not at all. It's quite easy. Start at:

http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages

and look around a bit. Then consider that every one of those packages
is free, and can be installed without leaving your chair. The same is
true of the operating system itself.

I've got (as most Linux users have) a perfectly workable GUI desktop
environment, word processors, web browsers (I prefer Firefox), office
applications, mail and news readers, text editors, compilers,
debuggers, games, chat/IM clients, multimedia players, graphics
editors, database clients and servers... in short, everything I need
or want to do my work and my computer-based play, too.

In most cases, I have no trouble viewing files created by windoze
users, from Word documents to Excel spreadsheets to PowerPoint
presentations.
Most are compatible to Microsoft?s

Most of the stuff on the shelf down at the computer store, anyway. I
don't have to leave my house to get all the software I could possibly
want.
 
M

Mark Parnell

Previously in alt.html said:
Historically, installation was the big roadblock to widespread adoption
of Debian,

Ah, so I haven't been lied to. Good to know. :)
but the installation "disk" (that's not necessarily a disk
of its own) that's coming out now makes that difficulty go away. It's
in the current testing version ("sarge") which will very soon move into
the stable distribution. If you're a Linux user who'd like to give
Debian a try, sarge is quite usable now -- I've been using it for many
moons already, even on a server I built and deployed a year ago, which
I remotely administer. sarge has given me no problems, here or out in
the world.

Sounds interesting. Might have to give it a go at some point.

It just doesn't get any easier than that.

Sounds very similar to Mandrake actually (which I what I'm using ATM).
I believe that the new install disk(s) will make that "hard to install"
complaint a historical sidenote. Maintenance after installation has
always been Debian's strong point, so once it's in, it's easy to keep
it going.

Fair enough. Good to know, thanks.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Art Sackett said:
I'm ambivalent, very very ambivalent.

I mean, if I were to catch someone in the act of doing grave harm to a
member of my immediate family, I'd impose my own death penalty right on
the spot. On the other hand, I believe that in many states (such as
Texas under GWB) it is overused and that there are too few protections
in place. I believe that GWB was so quick to use it because it was
popular, and he wanted to be seen as "tough on crime". Such is the
danger in a paternalistic state.

I am against the use of death penalty. One of the reasons why I am against
is that you can never be really sure that someone is guilty and if I am
correct, there was a famous case regarding Sacco and Vanzetti which showed
it. http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&q=Vanzetti+death+penalty&meta=
Another reason is that a community condemns an act by using the same act
(in case someone who had killed someone else is condemned to death penalty)
Did you read "Dei Delitti e delle Pene" di Cesare Beccaria?
http://www.google.it/search?hl=it&q=Dei+Delitti+e+delle+Pene&meta=
There is no death penalty in the EU.
So, I wonder why you condemn that law enforcement agencies are
quick to invade our privacy but you are not against the
death penalty on the other side. I think it is right to protect people´s
privacy but I also feel that the death penalty is much more wrong than
the invasion of people´s privacy.
Even in face-to-face transactions, there is the danger that the
contract is not valid. There is no guarantee of total protection in the
marketplace, as much as we'd like to have it.


This danger exists but it can be good to minimize this risk.
it?

Not at all. It's quite easy. Start at:

http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages

and look around a bit. Then consider that every one of those packages
is free, and can be installed without leaving your chair. The same is
true of the operating system itself.

I've got (as most Linux users have) a perfectly workable GUI desktop
environment, word processors, web browsers (I prefer Firefox), office
applications, mail and news readers, text editors, compilers,
debuggers, games, chat/IM clients, multimedia players, graphics
editors, database clients and servers... in short, everything I need
or want to do my work and my computer-based play, too.

In most cases, I have no trouble viewing files created by windoze
users, from Word documents to Excel spreadsheets to PowerPoint
presentations.


Most of the stuff on the shelf down at the computer store, anyway. I
don't have to leave my house to get all the software I could possibly
want.

I shall probably have a look at that.
 
M

Mark Parnell

Previously in alt.html, Luigi Donatello Asero
I am against the use of death penalty. One of the reasons why I am against
is that you can never be really sure that someone is guilty

The very last person to be executed in Australia (in the 70's I think)
was later found to be not guilty.
I shall probably have a look at that.

:-O

(You might want to configure your "newsreader" to strip the signature
from the post you're replying to.
<http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/>)
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Toby Inkster said:
You don't have to carry your PKI key with you when you go to the pub.

No, I do not.
And qualified certificates for qualified electronic signatures need a PKI,
no ID cards, as far as I understand.
 
D

Dylan Parry

Luigi said:
It does not probably seem safe to most Europeans, otherwise
it would be difficult to explain why such a little percentage of consumers
in the EU buy online.

I wish you would stop making mass generalisations. I am European, I use
my credit card online (well I do when it isn't maxed out), and I know
plenty of other people who wouldn't think twice about doing the same.

Have you ever thought that the reason people are not buying your
products is because they don't like your site or they don't like the
product, or some equally plausible reason?
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Dylan Parry said:
I wish you would stop making mass generalisations. I am European, I use
my credit card online (well I do when it isn't maxed out), and I know
plenty of other people who wouldn't think twice about doing the same.

Please have a look at
www.ebusinesslex.net
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Dylan Parry said:
I wish you would stop making mass generalisations. I am European, I use
my credit card online (well I do when it isn't maxed out), and I know
plenty of other people who wouldn't think twice about doing the same.

Have you ever thought that the reason people are not buying your
products is because they don't like your site or they don't like the
product, or some equally plausible reason?

Please have a look at statistics regarding the whole e-commerce in the EU or
even in some EU-country
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
473,744
Messages
2,569,483
Members
44,901
Latest member
Noble71S45

Latest Threads

Top