Shrink to fit

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Paul Furman, Feb 26, 2004.

  1. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    The only way I can get this <HR> to shrink to match the size of the rest
    of the page (which is just a bit of text in this case) is by putting
    them both in a table:

    <table><tr><td>
    <HR>
    text
    </td></tr></table>

    Div, span, etc. don't seem to help without setting a fixed width.


    The same is true for an inline list (or other things I assume) if it has
    a border showing, that will stretch to fit the entire page.
    Paul Furman, Feb 26, 2004
    #1
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  2. Paul Furman

    Els Guest

    Paul Furman wrote:

    > The only way I can get this <HR> to shrink to match the size of the rest
    > of the page (which is just a bit of text in this case) is by putting
    > them both in a table:
    >
    > <table><tr><td>
    > <HR>
    > text
    > </td></tr></table>
    >
    > Div, span, etc. don't seem to help without setting a fixed width.


    Not even <hr style="width:200px;"> ?
    or <hr style="width:90%;"> or
    <hr style="margin-left:10%;margin-right:10%">
    ?

    > The same is true for an inline list (or other things I assume) if it has
    > a border showing, that will stretch to fit the entire page.


    An inline list can certainly be put inside a div which has a
    certain width. This can be a percentage width of course.

    Or am I misunderstanding your problem?

    --
    Els

    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, Feb 26, 2004
    #2
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  3. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    Els wrote:

    > Paul Furman wrote:
    >
    >> The only way I can get this <HR> to shrink to match the size of the
    >> rest of the page (which is just a bit of text in this case) is by
    >> putting them both in a table:
    >>
    >> <table><tr><td>
    >> <HR>
    >> text
    >> </td></tr></table>
    >>
    >> Div, span, etc. don't seem to help without setting a fixed width.

    >
    >
    > Not even <hr style="width:200px;"> ?



    Yes, that works but is not flexible.

    >
    >> The same is true for an inline list (or other things I assume) if it
    >> has a border showing, that will stretch to fit the entire page.

    >
    >
    > Or am I misunderstanding your problem?



    I want the HR to shrink & grow with the stuff that it sits with so that:

    <table><tr><td>
    <HR>
    text
    </td></tr></table>


    is only as wide as the word "text" like:
    ____
    text

    <table><tr><td>
    <HR>
    text that is longer
    </td></tr></table>

    makes a wider HR like:

    ___________________
    text that is longer


    not like:

    __________________________________________________________________
    text
    Paul Furman, Feb 26, 2004
    #3
  4. Paul Furman

    DU Guest

    Paul Furman wrote:
    > Els wrote:
    >
    >> Paul Furman wrote:
    >>
    >>> The only way I can get this <HR> to shrink to match the size of the
    >>> rest of the page (which is just a bit of text in this case) is by
    >>> putting them both in a table:
    >>>
    >>> <table><tr><td>
    >>> <HR>
    >>> text
    >>> </td></tr></table>
    >>>
    >>> Div, span, etc. don't seem to help without setting a fixed width.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Not even <hr style="width:200px;"> ?

    >
    >
    >
    > Yes, that works but is not flexible.
    >
    >>
    >>> The same is true for an inline list (or other things I assume) if it
    >>> has a border showing, that will stretch to fit the entire page.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Or am I misunderstanding your problem?

    >
    >
    >
    > I want the HR to shrink & grow with the stuff that it sits with so that:
    >
    > <table><tr><td>
    > <HR>
    > text
    > </td></tr></table>
    >
    >
    > is only as wide as the word "text" like:
    > ____
    > text
    >
    > <table><tr><td>
    > <HR>
    > text that is longer
    > </td></tr></table>
    >
    > makes a wider HR like:
    >
    > ___________________
    > text that is longer
    >
    >
    > not like:
    >
    > __________________________________________________________________
    > text
    >


    Maybe if you could post an url, then we could examine your webpage
    situation and understand how to best fix this. Without it, it's
    difficult to suggest something fitting your webpage requirements. As
    described your situation can be solved with
    <hr style="width:90%;"> or
    <hr style="margin-left:10%;margin-right:10%">
    as given by Els.
    Creating a table for overlining text is inappropriate and refers exactly
    to what tag soup means.
    You may also try the css rule:
    text-decoration:eek:verline;
    http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/text.html#propdef-text-decoration
    or
    border-top:2px;
    for such text.

    HTH

    DU
    DU, Feb 26, 2004
    #4
  5. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    DU wrote:

    > Paul Furman wrote:
    >
    >> I want the HR to shrink & grow with the stuff that it sits with so that:
    >>
    >> <table><tr><td>
    >> <HR>
    >> text
    >> </td></tr></table>
    >>
    >>
    >> is only as wide as the word "text" like:
    >> ____
    >> text
    >> ___________________
    >> text that is longer
    >>
    >> not like:
    >>
    >> __________________________________________________________________
    >> text
    >>

    >
    > Maybe if you could post an url, then we could examine your webpage
    > situation and understand how to best fix this. Without it, it's
    > difficult to suggest something fitting your webpage requirements. As
    > described your situation can be solved with
    > <hr style="width:90%;"> or
    > <hr style="margin-left:10%;margin-right:10%">
    > as given by Els.
    > Creating a table for overlining text is inappropriate and refers exactly
    > to what tag soup means.



    I'm real close to eliminating tables on this site:
    http://hills.ccsf.edu/~pfurma02/index.php

    It will now resize (no bigger than needed) but if I eliminate the table
    which encloses everything, then the <HR> on top & the inline menu list
    below (with top & bottom border showing) expand to fill the entire page.
    You will need to expand your browser window to see how these lines stop
    now when they reach the limits of the contents inside the table.
    Paul Furman, Feb 26, 2004
    #5
  6. Paul Furman

    Els Guest

    Paul Furman wrote:

    > DU wrote:
    >
    >> Paul Furman wrote:
    >>
    >>> I want the HR to shrink & grow with the stuff that it sits with so that:
    >>>
    >>> <table><tr><td>
    >>> <HR>
    >>> text
    >>> </td></tr></table>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> is only as wide as the word "text" like:
    >>> ____
    >>> text
    >>> ___________________
    >>> text that is longer
    >>>
    >>> not like:
    >>>
    >>> __________________________________________________________________
    >>> text
    >>>

    >>
    >> Maybe if you could post an url, then we could examine your webpage
    >> situation and understand how to best fix this. Without it, it's
    >> difficult to suggest something fitting your webpage requirements. As
    >> described your situation can be solved with
    >> <hr style="width:90%;"> or
    >> <hr style="margin-left:10%;margin-right:10%">
    >> as given by Els.
    >> Creating a table for overlining text is inappropriate and refers
    >> exactly to what tag soup means.

    >
    > I'm real close to eliminating tables on this site:
    > http://hills.ccsf.edu/~pfurma02/index.php
    >
    > It will now resize (no bigger than needed) but if I eliminate the table
    > which encloses everything, then the <HR> on top & the inline menu list
    > below (with top & bottom border showing) expand to fill the entire page.
    > You will need to expand your browser window to see how these lines stop
    > now when they reach the limits of the contents inside the table.


    p.horizon{
    border-top:1px solid black;
    padding-top:1em; (or whatever distance you want
    between the 'hr' and the text)
    }

    <p class="horizon">loads of text inside this paragraph bla
    bla bla bla etc</p>

    Does that work for you?

    --
    Els

    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, Feb 26, 2004
    #6
  7. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    Els wrote:
    >
    > p.horizon{
    > border-top:1px solid black;
    > padding-top:1em; (or whatever distance you want between the 'hr'
    > and the text)
    > }
    >
    > <p class="horizon">loads of text inside this paragraph bla bla bla bla
    > etc</p>
    >
    > Does that work for you?



    Nope :-(

    looks like:

    ____________________________________________
    text
    Paul Furman, Feb 26, 2004
    #7
  8. Paul Furman

    DU Guest

    Els wrote:
    > Paul Furman wrote:
    >
    >> DU wrote:
    >>
    >>> Paul Furman wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I want the HR to shrink & grow with the stuff that it sits with so
    >>>> that:
    >>>>
    >>>> <table><tr><td>
    >>>> <HR>
    >>>> text
    >>>> </td></tr></table>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> is only as wide as the word "text" like:
    >>>> ____
    >>>> text
    >>>> ___________________
    >>>> text that is longer
    >>>>
    >>>> not like:
    >>>>
    >>>> __________________________________________________________________
    >>>> text
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Maybe if you could post an url, then we could examine your webpage
    >>> situation and understand how to best fix this. Without it, it's
    >>> difficult to suggest something fitting your webpage requirements. As
    >>> described your situation can be solved with
    >>> <hr style="width:90%;"> or
    >>> <hr style="margin-left:10%;margin-right:10%">
    >>> as given by Els.
    >>> Creating a table for overlining text is inappropriate and refers
    >>> exactly to what tag soup means.

    >>
    >>
    >> I'm real close to eliminating tables on this site:
    >> http://hills.ccsf.edu/~pfurma02/index.php
    >>
    >> It will now resize (no bigger than needed) but if I eliminate the
    >> table which encloses everything, then the <HR> on top & the inline
    >> menu list below (with top & bottom border showing) expand to fill the
    >> entire page. You will need to expand your browser window to see how
    >> these lines stop now when they reach the limits of the contents inside
    >> the table.

    >
    >
    > p.horizon{
    > border-top:1px solid black;
    > padding-top:1em; (or whatever distance you want between the 'hr'
    > and the text)
    > }
    >
    > <p class="horizon">loads of text inside this paragraph bla bla bla bla
    > etc</p>
    >
    > Does that work for you?
    >



    Your webpage has many other problems to fix, IMO. Every single time you
    use &nbsp;, you are unneedlessly increasing the size of your webpage:
    &nbsp; is used for precise situations. Either you should need padding or
    letter-spacing

    <span style="font-size:140%;">
    P&nbsp;a&nbsp;u&nbsp;l &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
    F&nbsp;u&nbsp;r&nbsp;m&nbsp;a&nbsp;n
    </span>
    You can safely replace the above with a
    <h1 style="letter-spacing:0.5em;">Paul Furman</h1>

    W3C Quality Assurance tip:
    Use headings to structure your document
    http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/headings

    W3C Quality Assurance tips:
    http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/

    Every occurence of <center> should be replaced, IMO. <center> is
    deprecated with proper css declarations.

    You're often switching from <p> with <br> in them to <ul><li>. These are
    for positioning your text.
    All you had to do is use paragraphs when your text is really a paragraph
    and then use a list when your text is about items. To center all your
    page, using margin for the body was correct.

    body {margin:10%;}

    and then just use proper markup (no tables, no lists unless text are
    items, no <center> needed, no &nbsp;). You already have too much
    formating code (elements, classes).

    Your webpage markup code does not validate either: I recommend to use a
    strict definition instead. Your page has many other structure, design
    problems. The centering of lines around the text is secondary issue in
    this perspective but related to this too.

    HTH

    DU
    DU, Feb 26, 2004
    #8
  9. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    DU wrote:

    > Els wrote:
    >
    >> Paul Furman wrote:
    >>
    >>> I'm real close to eliminating tables on this site:
    >>> http://hills.ccsf.edu/~pfurma02/index.php
    >>>

    >
    > Your webpage has many other problems to fix, IMO.



    I'm working on it. Are you admitting you don't know how to get what I
    want without a table? <g>.


    > Every single time you use &nbsp;,
    > you are unneedlessly increasing the size of your webpage
    > <snip>
    > You can safely replace the above with a
    > style="letter-spacing:0.5em;">Paul Furman</



    Great, I knew there was something like that but couldn't find it.


    >
    > W3C Quality Assurance tip:
    > Use headings to structure your document
    > http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/headings
    >
    > W3C Quality Assurance tips:
    > http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/
    >
    > Every occurence of <center> should be replaced, IMO. <center> is
    > deprecated with proper css declarations.


    Some can be fixed but the following does not work reliably for centering
    the overall page:

    margin-left: auto;
    margin-right: auto;

    I should be able to use text-align: center; for many of those <center>
    tags. It's a matter of time because it takes experimenting with backups,
    etc. I spent a hell of a lot of time experimenting already, don't assume
    I'm just being lazy.



    >
    > You're often switching from <p> with <br> in them to <ul><li>. These are
    > for positioning your text.
    > All you had to do is use paragraphs when your text is really a paragraph
    > and then use a list when your text is about items.



    I have not misused lists! Careful with the assumptions buddy <g>.

    The <br> & <p> I guess should become inline margin-top settings instead,
    though that certainly doesn't simplify anything and <br> & <p> are not
    deprecated. I understand the concept of closing <p> tags but haven't
    found any need yet. An open <p> is still legal, right?


    > To center all your
    > page, using margin for the body was correct.



    See above, I tried and that doesn't work.
    http://www.edgehill.net/html/css/max-min-width3.htm


    >
    > body {margin:10%;}



    Not what I want. Why waste 20% of the screen when things are tight?



    >
    > and then just use proper markup (no tables,



    Only one remaining and I'm asking for help to remove it.



    > <snip> You already have too much
    > formating code (elements, classes).



    I want to control the formatting. Where I can find opportunities to
    simplify that's better but I've only put things in that I needed.


    >
    > Your webpage markup code does not validate either:



    I know, that's pure avoidance. It's overwhelming. I'm assembling it all
    with PHP though so it's easy to fix globally as I learn things.



    > Your page has many other structure, design problems.



    Not a very helpful comment without specifics.


    > The centering of lines around the text is secondary issue in
    > this perspective but related to this too.



    Wrong!

    The centering of lines around text is my top priority at the moment. The
    page is fluid, reads fine in a plain text browser and doesn't have any
    other browser related bugs that I know of. The first thing is to make
    sure it looks correct, then I can worry about whether my title is inside
    a <h1> or whatever syntactical niceties.
    Paul Furman, Feb 26, 2004
    #9
  10. Paul Furman

    Els Guest

    Paul Furman wrote:

    Had a look at your code, and really, so easy to take the
    table off:

    If you take away from you code
    <center>
    <table class=".constrained">
    <tr>
    <td class=".constrained">
    And instead write:
    <div class="constrained">

    And take away
    </td>
    </tr>
    </table>
    And instead write:
    </div>

    And add
    <style type="text/css">
    body{text-align:center;}
    div.constrained {width:60%;margin-left:auto;
    margin-right:auto;text-align:center;}
    </style>

    in the head of your document, all you will have to do still,
    is making the head left-aligned.

    And I don't know if <p> tags are legal when open, but it
    looks a lot clearer in the code, if one sees where you close
    them.

    --
    Els

    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, Feb 26, 2004
    #10
  11. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    DU wrote:
    >
    > Your webpage markup code does not validate either


    Looks pretty good except for the validator's inability to understand PHP
    URL's:
    <url:
    http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhills.ccsf.edu%2F%7Epfurma02%2Findex.php>


    Line 9, column 8: end tag for element "HEAD" which is not open
    (explain...).
    </head>
    ^

    WRONG (AFAIK)



    Line 11, column 5: document type does not allow element "BODY" here
    (explain...).
    <body>
    ^

    WRONG (AFAIK)


    Line 17, column 74: cannot generate system identifier for general entity
    "PICS"
    ...f.edu/~pfurma02/index.php?SCREEN=index.php&PICS=6"
    ^

    THIS ERROR APPEARS REPEATEDLY, IT'S A VALID PHP URL!


    Line 24, column 8: document type does not allow element "CENTER" here;
    missing one of "APPLET", "OBJECT", "MAP", "IFRAME", "BUTTON" start-tag
    <center>
    ^

    OK I CAN TRY TO WORK ON THAT.
    Paul Furman, Feb 26, 2004
    #11
  12. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    DU wrote:
    >
    > Your webpage markup code does not validate either



    The CSS errors appear to be primarily related to IE workarounds:

    <url:
    http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhills.ccsf.edu%2F%7Epfurma02%2Fpaul.css&warning=1&profile=css2&usermedium=all>

    The rest I can't understand.
    Paul Furman, Feb 26, 2004
    #12
  13. Paul Furman

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:07:48 -0800, Paul Furman <>
    declared in alt.html:

    > Looks pretty good except for the validator's inability to understand PHP
    > URL's:
    > <url:
    > http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhills.ccsf.edu%2F%7Epfurma02%2Findex.php>


    This has nothing to do with PHP (except that your PHP code is generating
    invalid HTML).

    > Line 9, column 8: end tag for element "HEAD" which is not open
    > (explain...).
    > </head>
    > ^
    >
    > WRONG (AFAIK)


    No, the validator is right, as usual. You are using pseudo-XHTML markup
    (the /> at the end of the link element). Remove the /.

    > Line 11, column 5: document type does not allow element "BODY" here
    > (explain...).
    > <body>
    > ^


    Same problem as above.

    > Line 17, column 74: cannot generate system identifier for general entity
    > "PICS"
    > ...f.edu/~pfurma02/index.php?SCREEN=index.php&PICS=6"
    > ^


    Ampersands need to be encoded properly. Replace & with &amp;

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    Mark Parnell, Feb 26, 2004
    #13
  14. Paul Furman

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:13:12 -0800, Paul Furman <>
    declared in alt.html:

    > The CSS errors appear to be primarily related to IE workarounds:


    A couple of them, possibly.

    > <url:
    > http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhills.ccsf.edu%2F%7Epfurma02%2Fpaul.css&warning=1&profile=css2&usermedium=all>
    >
    > The rest I can't understand.


    I don't mean to be rude, but did you actually read the errors?

    2 of them clearly state that you are missing semicolons.

    3 relate to properties/values that don't exist in the specs (possibly IE
    workarounds, but I doubt it).

    1 (the "parse error") you seem to be trying to get it to do some sort of
    calculation - CSS is not a programming language.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    Mark Parnell, Feb 26, 2004
    #14
  15. Paul Furman

    Steve Pugh Guest

    Paul Furman <> wrote:

    >DU wrote:
    >>
    >> Your webpage markup code does not validate either

    >
    >Looks pretty good except for the validator's inability to understand PHP
    >URL's:


    If your server is sending PHP to the validator then your server either
    doesn't support PHP or your PHP code is broken. The validator gets
    exactly the same code that the browser gets.

    ><url:
    >http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhills.ccsf.edu%2F%7Epfurma02%2Findex.php>
    >
    >Line 9, column 8: end tag for element "HEAD" which is not open
    >(explain...).
    > </head>
    > ^
    >
    >WRONG (AFAIK)


    No, it's right, you're wrong.

    You've mixed XHTML and HTML syntax.
    <link /> is XHTML, in HTML it means <link>>
    As > is a text character it can not go in the head so as soon as it
    appears the head is closed and the body is opened. So the later
    </head> is an error.

    >Line 17, column 74: cannot generate system identifier for general entity
    >"PICS"
    > ...f.edu/~pfurma02/index.php?SCREEN=index.php&PICS=6"
    > ^
    >
    >THIS ERROR APPEARS REPEATEDLY, IT'S A VALID PHP URL!


    It's a good URL, but it's bad HTML.
    & in HTML must always be written as &amp;

    >Line 24, column 8: document type does not allow element "CENTER" here;
    >missing one of "APPLET", "OBJECT", "MAP", "IFRAME", "BUTTON" start-tag
    > <center>
    > ^
    >OK I CAN TRY TO WORK ON THAT.


    You can't nest block level elements link <center> inside inline
    elements link <a>

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Feb 26, 2004
    #15
  16. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    Mark Parnell wrote:

    > On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:13:12 -0800, Paul Furman <>
    > declared in alt.html:
    >
    >
    >>The CSS errors appear to be primarily related to IE workarounds:

    >
    > A couple of them, possibly.
    >
    >
    >><url:
    >>http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhills.ccsf.edu%2F%7Epfurma02%2Fpaul.css&warning=1&profile=css2&usermedium=all>
    >>
    >>The rest I can't understand.

    >
    >
    > I don't mean to be rude, but did you actually read the errors?
    >
    > 2 of them clearly state that you are missing semicolons.




    # Line: 0 Context : body
    Invalid number : colorattempt to find a semi-colon before the property
    name. add it
    body {
    color : #444;


    I've got a colon & a semicolon
    the spec linking there from the word color says:
    { color: red }
    or
    { color: rgb(255,0,0) }
    no mention of #RRGGBB
    ????? is this new ??????


    # Line: 0 Context : button
    Property border-size doesn't exist : 0

    I dunno, it works in Moz & IE


    # Line: 0 Context : button
    Invalid number : cursorhand is not a cursor value : hand

    IE workaround.

    # Line: 0 Context : div.textbox
    Invalid number : widthParse Error - document.body.clientWidth > (500/12)
    * parseInt(document.body.currentStyle.fontSize)? "30em": "auto" )

    IE workaround.


    # Line: 0 Context : table.fine
    Invalid number : borderattempt to find a semi-colon before the property
    name. add it
    table.fine {
    border : 1px none inherit;

    Again, I've got a semicolon!


    # Line: 0 Context : table.fine
    Property solid doesn't exist : #aaaaaa
    td.fine {
    border : 1px solid #aaaaaa;

    I don't know what they are talking about, isn't this the right format?

    That's it, that's all the errors I got.
    Paul Furman, Feb 27, 2004
    #16
  17. Paul Furman

    Steve Pugh Guest

    Paul Furman <> wrote:

    >DU wrote:
    >>
    >> Your webpage markup code does not validate either

    >
    >
    >The CSS errors appear to be primarily related to IE workarounds:
    >
    ><url:
    >http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhills.ccsf.edu%2F%7Epfurma02%2Fpaul.css&warning=1&profile=css2&usermedium=all>
    >
    >The rest I can't understand.


    color: #444
    font-family: Times New Roman;
    Missing semi-colon.

    border-size: 0px;
    No such property, maybe you meant border-width ?

    border: 1px solid: #aaaaaa;
    Colon after solid, this causes two errors from the validator.

    The other two errors are indeed caused by using IE-specific code.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Feb 27, 2004
    #17
  18. Paul Furman

    Paul Furman Guest

    Mark Parnell wrote:

    > On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:13:12 -0800, Paul Furman <>
    > declared in alt.html:
    >
    >
    >>The CSS errors appear to be primarily related to IE workarounds:

    >
    > A couple of them, possibly.
    >
    >
    >><url:
    >>http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fhills.ccsf.edu%2F%7Epfurma02%2Fpaul.css&warning=1&profile=css2&usermedium=all>
    >>
    >>The rest I can't understand.

    >
    >
    > I don't mean to be rude, but did you actually read the errors?
    >
    > 2 of them clearly state that you are missing semicolons.




    # Line: 0 Context : body
    Invalid number : colorattempt to find a semi-colon before the property
    name. add it
    body {
    color : #444;


    I've got a colon & a semicolon
    the spec linking there from the word color says:
    { color: red }
    or
    { color: rgb(255,0,0) }
    no mention of #RRGGBB
    ????? is this new ??????


    # Line: 0 Context : button
    Property border-size doesn't exist : 0

    I dunno, it works in Moz & IE


    # Line: 0 Context : button
    Invalid number : cursorhand is not a cursor value : hand

    IE workaround.

    # Line: 0 Context : div.textbox
    Invalid number : widthParse Error - document.body.clientWidth > (500/12)
    * parseInt(document.body.currentStyle.fontSize)? "30em": "auto" )

    IE workaround.


    # Line: 0 Context : table.fine
    Invalid number : borderattempt to find a semi-colon before the property
    name. add it
    table.fine {
    border : 1px none inherit;

    Again, I've got a semicolon!


    # Line: 0 Context : table.fine
    Property solid doesn't exist : #aaaaaa
    td.fine {
    border : 1px solid #aaaaaa;

    I don't know what they are talking about, isn't this the right format?

    That's it, that's all the errors I got.
    Paul Furman, Feb 27, 2004
    #18
  19. Paul Furman

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:01:03 -0800, Paul Furman <>
    declared in alt.html:

    > # Line: 0 Context : body
    > Invalid number : colorattempt to find a semi-colon before the property
    > name. add it
    > body {
    > color : #444;
    >
    >
    > I've got a colon & a semicolon


    Not in http://hills.ccsf.edu/~pfurma02/paul.css

    Maybe you have fixed it locally and not uploaded it yet?

    > # Line: 0 Context : button
    > Property border-size doesn't exist : 0
    >
    > I dunno, it works in Moz & IE


    I usually use the shorthand border property (in this case, border:
    none;), but the correct one you are looking for is border-width: 0;

    > # Line: 0 Context : button
    > Invalid number : cursorhand is not a cursor value : hand
    >
    > IE workaround.


    Thought that one might be.

    > # Line: 0 Context : div.textbox
    > Invalid number : widthParse Error - document.body.clientWidth > (500/12)
    > * parseInt(document.body.currentStyle.fontSize)? "30em": "auto" )
    >
    > IE workaround.


    Which bit? What exactly is it supposed to do?

    > # Line: 0 Context : table.fine
    > Invalid number : borderattempt to find a semi-colon before the property
    > name. add it
    > table.fine {
    > border : 1px none inherit;
    >
    > Again, I've got a semicolon!


    Again, see above.

    > # Line: 0 Context : table.fine
    > Property solid doesn't exist : #aaaaaa
    > td.fine {
    > border : 1px solid #aaaaaa;
    >
    > I don't know what they are talking about, isn't this the right format?


    You have a colon after solid.

    > That's it, that's all the errors I got.


    Yep, that's it.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    Mark Parnell, Feb 27, 2004
    #19
  20. Paul Furman

    DU Guest

    Paul Furman wrote:
    > DU wrote:
    >
    >> Els wrote:
    >>
    >>> Paul Furman wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I'm real close to eliminating tables on this site:
    >>>> http://hills.ccsf.edu/~pfurma02/index.php
    >>>>

    >>
    >> Your webpage has many other problems to fix, IMO.

    >
    >
    >
    > I'm working on it. Are you admitting you don't know how to get what I
    > want without a table? <g>.
    >


    All I wanted to explain is that I see what is the layout you want to
    achieve. You now need to redo the code design.

    >
    >> Every single time you use &nbsp;, you are unneedlessly increasing the
    >> size of your webpage
    >> <snip>
    >> You can safely replace the above with a
    >> style="letter-spacing:0.5em;">Paul Furman</

    >
    >
    >
    > Great, I knew there was something like that but couldn't find it.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> W3C Quality Assurance tip:
    >> Use headings to structure your document
    >> http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/headings
    >>
    >> W3C Quality Assurance tips:
    >> http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/
    >>
    >> Every occurence of <center> should be replaced, IMO. <center> is
    >> deprecated with proper css declarations.

    >
    >
    > Some can be fixed but the following does not work reliably for centering
    > the overall page:
    >
    > margin-left: auto;
    > margin-right: auto;
    >


    Most people (above 90%) are now using a CSS1 compliant browser. You need
    to trigger MSIE 6 into standards compliant rendering mode to do that.
    And your current doctype decl. does not do that.

    > I should be able to use text-align: center; for many of those <center>
    > tags.



    No. text-align:center is to center inline elements. Setting the
    horizontal margins to auto will center blocklevel elements.

    It's a matter of time because it takes experimenting with backups,
    > etc. I spent a hell of a lot of time experimenting already, don't assume
    > I'm just being lazy.
    >
    >


    I'm not assuming you're lazy.

    >
    >>
    >> You're often switching from <p> with <br> in them to <ul><li>. These
    >> are for positioning your text.
    >> All you had to do is use paragraphs when your text is really a
    >> paragraph and then use a list when your text is about items.

    >
    >
    >
    > I have not misused lists! Careful with the assumptions buddy <g>.
    >


    I said when paragraphs are texts (like sentences,
    subject-verb-complement), then paragraphs are fine. When the text show
    items (telegraphic form, sorta), then list (<ul>s) are fine.


    > The <br> & <p> I guess should become inline margin-top settings instead,
    > though that certainly doesn't simplify anything and <br> & <p> are not
    > deprecated. I understand the concept of closing <p> tags but haven't
    > found any need yet. An open <p> is still legal, right?
    >
    >


    "Close Your Tags

    Unlike Extensible Markup Language (XML), HTML has the notion of
    implicitly closed tags. This includes frame, img, li, and p. If you
    don't close these tags, Internet Explorer renders your pages just fine.
    If you do close your tags, Internet Explorer will render your pages even
    faster."
    Building High Performance HTML Pages
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/perf/perftips.asp

    Closing tags are necessary in strict definition. ANyway, I recommend you
    use a strict definition for your document. That way, it will render more
    consistently across browsers. If you use appropriate markup code, then
    it will degrade gracefully in old browsers (over 6 years old ones).

    >> To center all your page, using margin for the body was correct.

    >
    >
    >
    > See above, I tried and that doesn't work.
    > http://www.edgehill.net/html/css/max-min-width3.htm
    >
    >
    >>
    >> body {margin:10%;}

    >
    >
    >
    > Not what I want. Why waste 20% of the screen when things are tight?
    >


    Well, your content was using less than 80% for sure on my monitor screen.

    >
    >
    >>
    >> and then just use proper markup (no tables,

    >
    >
    >
    > Only one remaining and I'm asking for help to remove it.
    >


    It does not really work like that. You have other problems in your page
    that just can not make the removal of the table possible. In my opinion,
    your markup already has several signs of "tag soup".

    >
    >
    >> <snip> You already have too much formating code (elements, classes).

    >
    >
    >
    > I want to control the formatting. Where I can find opportunities to
    > simplify that's better but I've only put things in that I needed.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Your webpage markup code does not validate either:

    >
    >
    >
    > I know, that's pure avoidance. It's overwhelming. I'm assembling it all
    > with PHP though so it's easy to fix globally as I learn things.
    >
    >
    >
    >> Your page has many other structure, design problems.

    >
    >
    >
    > Not a very helpful comment without specifics.
    >
    >


    Well, this is my 3rd post. I could write a lot, explaining, explaining
    takes time, etc.. I might as well just do the file the way I would do it
    instead and then save typing on explaining, etc.


    DU
    DU, Feb 27, 2004
    #20
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