Simplest way to develop web applications in Java?

Discussion in 'Java' started by Ido.Yehieli@gmail.com, Nov 21, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Java EE seems to be mind-numbingly complex, is there a simpler way to
    develop web applications with java?

    What would be the advantage of a full fledged Java EE framework
    compared to a more lightweight solution (for instance: tomcat
    (JSP+servlets) + hibernate (persistency))?

    What would be your choice for the best/simplest way to do it?

    Thanks in advance,
    Ido.
     
    , Nov 21, 2006
    #1
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  2. David Segall Guest

    wrote:

    >Java EE seems to be mind-numbingly complex, is there a simpler way to
    >develop web applications with java?
    >
    >What would be the advantage of a full fledged Java EE framework
    >compared to a more lightweight solution (for instance: tomcat
    >(JSP+servlets) + hibernate (persistency))?
    >
    >What would be your choice for the best/simplest way to do it?

    For simplest, but not necessarily best, I would go for Java Studio
    Creator <http://developers.sun.com/prodtech/javatools/jscreator>.
    Java Studio Creator is being reincarnated as the Visual Web Pack for
    NetBeans <www.netbeans.org> so if you want a single Java IDE you may
    prefer NetBeans.
     
    David Segall, Nov 21, 2006
    #2
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  3. Daniel Dyer Guest

    On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:36:22 -0000, <> wrote:

    > Java EE seems to be mind-numbingly complex, is there a simpler way to
    > develop web applications with java?
    >
    > What would be the advantage of a full fledged Java EE framework
    > compared to a more lightweight solution (for instance: tomcat
    > (JSP+servlets) + hibernate (persistency))?


    JSP and servlets are parts of JavaEE. Hibernate also provides an
    implementation of the Java Persistence API (JPA), which is part of Java EE
    5.0. So I guess you are talking about avoiding EJB? Rod Johnson's book
    "J2EE Development without EJB" may be of interest. The key piece of
    advice is unless you *really* need distributed business objects, do not
    use EJB. You can still use all the other EE stuff like servlets,
    messaging (JMS) and transactions without having to write EJBs. Most web
    applications don't need EJB and the complexity it brings (particularly
    prior to EJB 3.0) is best avoided where possible.

    Dan.

    --
    Daniel Dyer
    http://www.uncommons.org
     
    Daniel Dyer, Nov 21, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    Daniel Dyer wrote:
    > So I guess you are talking about avoiding EJB?


    Mostly, yes. I also want to avoid the huge amount of (often repetetive)
    xml text that seems to be a part of every j2ee web app. i understand I
    can do a lot of it with annotations now, which I will also like to look
    into.

    Can you think of a better approach then tomcat + hibernate like I
    suggested?

    Thanks in advance,
    Ido.
     
    , Nov 21, 2006
    #4
  5. Daniel Dyer Guest

    On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:58:46 -0000, <> wrote:

    > Daniel Dyer wrote:
    >> So I guess you are talking about avoiding EJB?

    >
    > Mostly, yes. I also want to avoid the huge amount of (often repetetive)
    > xml text that seems to be a part of every j2ee web app. i understand I
    > can do a lot of it with annotations now, which I will also like to look
    > into.


    Personally, I strongly dislike EJB. However, if it were possible to
    rescue the situation, I think they may have achieved it with EJB 3.0.
    Much of the XML cruft and all of the Home and Remote junk has disappeared
    (or at least is hidden from you). EJB 3.0 entity beans are almost a joy
    to use (well, in comparison to EJB 2.1 at least). The annotations,
    borrowing much from Hibernate, make the ORM simple. The inheritance
    restrictions are gone too.

    > Can you think of a better approach then tomcat + hibernate like I
    > suggested?


    No idea what your requirements are but, if you just have web pages that
    read and write to a database back-end, then Tomcat + some web framework
    + POJOs for business objects + Hibernate for ORM is probably sufficient.
    Keep things as simple as you can. There are dozens of web frameworks to
    choose from. Struts is mature and widely used. I've also heard good
    things about Wicket but haven't used it myself.

    Dan.

    --
    Daniel Dyer
    http://www.uncommons.org
     
    Daniel Dyer, Nov 21, 2006
    #5
  6. Lew Guest

    Daniel Dyer wrote:
    > ... There are dozens of web
    > frameworks to choose from. Struts is mature and widely used.


    Mature is one word for it.

    Struts does a great job of automating the controller and navigation logic for
    Web applications, but some of its older libraries overlap functionality of
    newer standards like JSP EL, JSTL and JSF. The Struts project has done a great
    job of moving with the changes in its most recent incarnations; its web site
    is chock-a-block with advice on how to use these standards in conjunction with
    Struts.

    Many people ignore this advice and use Struts libraries instead. There are
    also ways to use the core Struts framework to engender horrid complexity
    should one choose to do so. One could argue that any web app should have
    sufficiently straightforward navigation requirements that Struts action
    classes need not each dispatch to a zillion different processing stages, but
    then some seem to disagree. Struts is flexible enough to satisfy the most
    twisted spaghetti-logic addict.

    I suggest using Struts in its leanest pure form, expecially its most recent
    incarnation, preferring the newer standards to the older non-core Struts
    libraries.

    One could also write one's own controller servlet and simple "action" handler
    layer. It's not a whole lot of work for most straightforward applications, but
    it will help you appreciate Struts's value and how best to use it.

    Going back to the original point about developing in the "simplest way": if
    you ever think you need to "disable" the browser back button or refresh, you
    have seriously lost your path. Make your transactions idempotent and don't
    every try to change browser buttons. The misguided attempt to suppress
    browser navigation idioms introduces amazing difficulties and astounding
    schedule slippage to your projects.

    The larger principle is that no framework or technology mix will protect you
    from having to do correct analysis and modeling, or against the consequences
    if you don't. Achieving the "simplest way to develop" depends on an
    architectural approach and mindset more than on your tools.

    - Lew
     
    Lew, Nov 22, 2006
    #6
  7. Guest

    The Spring framework is ideal for the solution you are looking for.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Framework_(Java)

    Ryan

    wrote:
    > Java EE seems to be mind-numbingly complex, is there a simpler way to
    > develop web applications with java?
    >
    > What would be the advantage of a full fledged Java EE framework
    > compared to a more lightweight solution (for instance: tomcat
    > (JSP+servlets) + hibernate (persistency))?
    >
    > What would be your choice for the best/simplest way to do it?
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    > Ido.
     
    , Nov 25, 2006
    #7
  8. Simon Brooke Guest

    > wrote:
    >> Java EE seems to be mind-numbingly complex, is there a simpler way to
    >> develop web applications with java?


    Many, most of them good.

    >>
    >> What would be the advantage of a full fledged Java EE framework
    >> compared to a more lightweight solution (for instance: tomcat
    >> (JSP+servlets) + hibernate (persistency))?


    None whatever. You want to read this book here:

    http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/bfljava/

    It contains a great deal of common sense.

    >> What would be your choice for the best/simplest way to do it?


    Someone else has recommended Spring; I'd also suggest you look at Struts.

    --
    (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military
     
    Simon Brooke, Nov 25, 2006
    #8
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