Single quote a bad character?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by David Segall, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. David Segall

    David Segall Guest

    When I validate a page in Dreamweaver it says "’ found between tags.
    Consider using the equivalent entity (&amp = '&', &lt = '<', &gt =
    '>', &quot = quotation mark)."

    I am inclined to ignore it because I can't find a &xxx; to replace the
    single quote and I think &#39 is harder to read. Am I wrong?
     
    David Segall, Jul 12, 2009
    #1
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  2. David Segall wrote:

    > When I validate a page in Dreamweaver


    How do you do that? Has Dreamweaver got a validator, or a phoney
    "validator"?

    > it says "' found between tags.


    If your quotation is correct, then the "validator" is really phoney.

    It is certainly not invalid to use the Ascii apostrophe ' between tags.

    > Consider using the equivalent entity (&amp = '&', &lt = '<', &gt =
    > '>', &quot = quotation mark)."


    More bogus. For robustness, the trailing semicolon should never be omitted.
    And it does not mention the entity for apostrophe. Of course, there is no
    good reason to use the entity, but the message suggests an entity.

    > I am inclined to ignore it because I can't find a &xxx; to replace the
    > single quote and I think &#39 is harder to read. Am I wrong?


    Well, probably you are wrong, but this is somewhat complicated.

    _If_ the message were justified, i.e. if the apostrophe were dangerous, then
    you surely should not ignore it for reasons like lack of information or
    difficulty of reading HTML source. The good reason to ignore the message is
    that the apostrophe is in no way risky between tags.

    On the other hand, is the Ascii apostrophe the correct character? Normally
    it is the correct character in some formalisms only, like programming or
    command languages, etc., not in human languages. The odds are that you
    should be using the right single quotation mark, which is the preferred
    character for punctuation apostrophe (in human languages), according to the
    Unicode standard. If you don't know how to enter it in the declared
    character encoding of your document, use the entity reference &rsquo;.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jul 12, 2009
    #2
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  3. David Segall

    David Segall Guest

    David Segall <> wrote:

    >When I validate a page in Dreamweaver it says "’ found between tags.
    >Consider using the equivalent entity (&amp = '&', &lt = '<', &gt =
    >'>', &quot = quotation mark)."
    >
    >I am inclined to ignore it because I can't find a &xxx; to replace the
    >single quote and I think &#39 is harder to read. Am I wrong?


    I'm sorry. Jukka's response has made it clear that I did not provide
    the appropriate information in my post. The single quote is actually
    an apostrophe as in the second character of this post.
     
    David Segall, Jul 12, 2009
    #3
  4. David Segall

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    David Segall <> wrote:

    > When I validate a page in Dreamweaver it says "’ found between tags.
    > Consider using the equivalent


    Should you have anything but spaces between tags in the sense of between
    element ends and beginnings like <div></div> *** <div></div>? Are
    comments typed correctly?

    With anchors, there is <a href="URL"></a> and one can sometimes forget
    to put in the second " around the URL or ditto for in inline styles
    style="...">. Not sure if this would produce the DW flag though?

    What does the FF validator say? With the Web developer extension, it now
    has both validation for hosted files and local files.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 13, 2009
    #4
  5. dorayme wrote:

    >> When I validate a page in Dreamweaver it says "' found between tags.
    >> Consider using the equivalent

    >
    > Should you have anything but spaces between tags in the sense of
    > between element ends and beginnings like <div></div> *** <div></div>?


    Why would that matter, irrespectively of whether you actually mean here?

    > Are comments typed correctly?


    Why would that matter? The issue was the ' character between tags.

    > With anchors, there is <a href="URL"></a> and one can sometimes forget
    > to put in the second " around the URL or ditto for in inline styles
    > style="...">.


    Why would that matter? If you don't have a terminator for a quoted attribute
    value like "URL" or 'URL', you probably generate a syntax error, but you
    don't generate a syntax error consisting of an apostrophe character '
    between tags.

    An apostrophe, or any non-whitespace character, is a syntax error between
    tags when the syntax does not allow character data in a particular context,
    like inside the head element. It would however be grossly misleading to
    refer to a specific character by name as causing the problem (like "letter K
    not allowed") and outright wrong to suggest that turning it to an entity
    reference could help.

    > What does the FF validator say?


    It's easier to use an online validator directly, for a specific page, that
    via a function in an add-on to a specific browser. My favorite is
    http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/ because the W3C validator seems to
    be getting "enhanced" with new confusing "features".

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jul 13, 2009
    #5
  6. David Segall

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ben C <> wrote:

    > On 2009-07-12, dorayme <> wrote:
    > > In article <>,
    > > David Segall <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> When I validate a page in Dreamweaver it says "’ found between tags.
    > >> Consider using the equivalent

    > >
    > > Should you have anything but spaces between tags in the sense of between
    > > element ends and beginnings like <div></div> *** <div></div>? Are
    > > comments typed correctly?

    >
    > This kind of thing is quite common, and perfectly OK:
    >
    > <div>Some words <span>here</span> and <span>there</span></div>
    >
    > "and" is between tags.


    Yes, I was slack. Sorry everyone. I meant loose in body, everything else
    not loose but in or between tags or comments. I was just musing aloud at
    what might trigger DW to report (truthfully or falsely) what it did. In
    conjunction with 4.01 Strict, my editor flags loose characters and it
    might do so by mistake.

    I would like to say it was a cunning plan to trigger JK to say more
    about this because I know he knows all about these things. I did think
    of him when typing my post and that maybe I should leave this one alone.
    But David is a film buff and one likes to be a bit friendly, you know?
    <g>.

    I'll tell you the truth: I would like to get my hands on the mark up
    that David got the message from DW about before I say a single thing
    more. But he is scared about Siberian re-education camps at the moment,
    so I am not sure of the chances.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 13, 2009
    #6
  7. David Segall

    David Segall Guest

    dorayme <> wrote:

    >I'll tell you the truth: I would like to get my hands on the mark up
    >that David got the message from DW about before I say a single thing
    >more. But he is scared about Siberian re-education camps at the moment,
    >so I am not sure of the chances.


    You are right. There is no way I am going to publish the real URL. The
    client selected, and I used, a design from OSWD and even the liberals
    here would crucify me because of it.

    However, I could not resist the logic behind your request so I copied
    the relevant mark up to <http://www.profectus.asia/Untitled-1.html>.
    In doing so I discovered that, damn it!, Yukka was correct. I had
    copied the text from a Word document the client gave me and it appears
    that the apostrophe in the second sentence is a closing quote. When I
    typed in a single quote, as in the first sentence, Dreamweaver did not
    report an error.
     
    David Segall, Jul 14, 2009
    #7
  8. David Segall

    Lars Eighner Guest

    In our last episode,
    <>,
    the lovely and talented David Segall
    broadcast on alt.html:

    > dorayme <> wrote:


    >>I'll tell you the truth: I would like to get my hands on the mark up
    >>that David got the message from DW about before I say a single thing
    >>more. But he is scared about Siberian re-education camps at the moment,
    >>so I am not sure of the chances.


    > You are right. There is no way I am going to publish the real URL. The
    > client selected, and I used, a design from OSWD


    Overseas war department?
    Outdoor sports with dildos?
    Only slightly weather damaged?


    --
    Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> September 5796, 1993
    175 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term.
    Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't.
     
    Lars Eighner, Jul 14, 2009
    #8
  9. David Segall

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    David Segall <> wrote:

    > dorayme <> wrote:
    >
    > >I'll tell you the truth: I would like to get my hands on the mark up
    > >that David got the message from DW about before I say a single thing
    > >more. But he is scared about Siberian re-education camps at the moment,
    > >so I am not sure of the chances.

    >
    > You are right. There is no way I am going to publish the real URL. The
    > client selected, and I used, a design from OSWD and even the liberals
    > here would crucify me because of it.
    >
    > However, I could not resist the logic behind your request so I copied
    > the relevant mark up to <http://www.profectus.asia/Untitled-1.html>.
    > In doing so I discovered that, damn it!, Yukka was correct. I had
    > copied the text from a Word document the client gave me and it appears
    > that the apostrophe in the second sentence is a closing quote. When I
    > typed in a single quote, as in the first sentence, Dreamweaver did not
    > report an error.


    Yes, I have grep pattern replacement I made to get rid of those pesky
    things in my text editor and put in honest-to-goodness typewriter quotes.

    Honest to goodness? Well, remember the scene in Witness where Harrison
    Ford has just put on the Amish suit of Rachel's late husband? He asks
    how does it look? And she says, approvingly, it looks plain. She means
    unadorned. There is a funny exchange about why there are no buttons and
    it turns out that buttons for the Amish are too proud.

    Anyway, to cut a long story short, when I redo this perfect film (to
    make HTML the background to the thriller and love story), I will do it
    with Ford typing a fancy apostrophe, one of those that JK seems to love
    so much, he being into the finer things in typography, and I will have
    Rachel chiding him and changing it to plain typewriter.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 15, 2009
    #9
  10. David Segall

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Lars Eighner <> wrote:

    > In our last episode,
    > <>,
    > the lovely and talented David Segall
    > broadcast on alt.html:
    >
    > > dorayme <> wrote:

    >
    > >>I'll tell you the truth: I would like to get my hands on the mark up
    > >>that David got the message from DW about before I say a single thing
    > >>more. But he is scared about Siberian re-education camps at the moment,
    > >>so I am not sure of the chances.

    >
    > > You are right. There is no way I am going to publish the real URL. The
    > > client selected, and I used, a design from OSWD

    >
    > Overseas war department?
    > Outdoor sports with dildos?
    > Only slightly weather damaged?


    Probably "Open Source Web Design"

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 15, 2009
    #10
  11. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed David Segall <>
    writing in news::

    > I had
    > copied the text from a Word document the client gave me and it appears
    > that the apostrophe in the second sentence is a closing quote.


    I have issues with copying from Word all the time, for example, quotes,
    double spaces, &mdashes, etc. The ones that really get me are the double
    spaces since you really can't see them.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, Jul 15, 2009
    #11
  12. David Segall

    John Hosking Guest

    On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:44:13 +0000 (UTC), Adrienne Boswell wrote:

    > Gazing into my crystal ball I observed David Segall
    > writing in news::
    >
    >> I had
    >> copied the text from a Word document the client gave me and it appears
    >> that the apostrophe in the second sentence is a closing quote.

    >
    > I have issues with copying from Word all the time, for example, quotes,
    > double spaces, &mdashes, etc. The ones that really get me are the double
    > spaces since you really can't see them.


    It's not just Word. As a Windows user I find myself frequently copying from
    one place (browser, Word doc, Outlook, wherever) into a Notepad window,
    then selecting it all from Notepad and pasting it into my target app. Then
    I can see the double spaces as well as I can see them in your post above
    (using my monospace-font newsreader).

    Notepad is among the most, if it's not *the* most useful software Microsoft
    has made.

    I'm also using it constantly to peek into files associated with some app:
    Email .msg files, Word docs, XML files, and of course, (X)HTML pages. It's
    always faster and it doesn't invoke the app (and whatever clever
    functionality that's going to provide).

    --
    John
    Wondering how many recommendations I'll get to switch to an OS with "x" in
    its name.
     
    John Hosking, Jul 15, 2009
    #12
  13. David Segall

    David Segall Guest

    Lars Eighner <> wrote:

    >In our last episode,
    ><>,
    >the lovely and talented David Segall
    >broadcast on alt.html:
    >
    >> dorayme <> wrote:

    >
    >>>I'll tell you the truth: I would like to get my hands on the mark up
    >>>that David got the message from DW about before I say a single thing
    >>>more. But he is scared about Siberian re-education camps at the moment,
    >>>so I am not sure of the chances.

    >
    >> You are right. There is no way I am going to publish the real URL. The
    >> client selected, and I used, a design from OSWD

    >
    >Overseas war department?
    >Outdoor sports with dildos?
    >Only slightly weather damaged?


    I'm sorry, it's Open Source Web Development <http://www.oswd.org/>. In
    my defence, it is the first site listed by Google in response to the
    search term "OSWD". It is an invaluable resource for artistically
    challenged technicians like me who are increasingly called upon to
    design a web site. Even if I was a talented designer I think I would
    still use the site to gauge the style that appeals to a client.
     
    David Segall, Jul 15, 2009
    #13
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