Sizing Page Backgrounds

Discussion in 'HTML' started by PJB, Dec 11, 2005.

  1. PJB

    PJB Guest

    Is there a way to define the size of a page's background image
    so it spans 100% of any screen? Depending upon the computer
    and screen resolution, my background images do not always fill
    the screen. My default design resolution has been 800 X 600 but
    on a wide-screen laptop at a higher resolution, this looks like a
    design error (see www.pjbird.com). Currently, I set my text formatting
    to span only 800 pixels but would like the background image to fill
    the page.

    Should I reformat my images to a larger dimension?
    Is there an HTML command to set the image width to span 100% of
    the screen (like a table option)?
    Should I use a layer tag or other option?

    My use and knowledge of HTML is limited so any insights would help.
    Note the following tag (I am not using CSS but have during various design
    phases):

    <body text="#ff9900" link="#FF9900" vlink="#0099FF" Style=
    "margin-top:20px; margin-left:20px; background-image:url('Damsel_fly.JPG');
    background-repeat: no-repeat">

    PJB
     
    PJB, Dec 11, 2005
    #1
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  2. PJB

    Els Guest

    PJB wrote:

    > Is there a way to define the size of a page's background image
    > so it spans 100% of any screen? Depending upon the computer
    > and screen resolution, my background images do not always fill
    > the screen. My default design resolution has been 800 X 600 but
    > on a wide-screen laptop at a higher resolution, this looks like a
    > design error


    That's because it *is* a design error ;-)

    > (see www.pjbird.com). Currently, I set my text formatting
    > to span only 800 pixels but would like the background image to fill
    > the page.


    Just get an image that is very large, looks good in full and looks
    good when cut around the sides, and center it.

    > Should I reformat my images to a larger dimension?
    > Is there an HTML command to set the image width to span 100% of
    > the screen (like a table option)?


    Not for background images.

    > Should I use a layer tag or other option?


    You could of course use an image in the HTML instead of it being a
    background image, which opens up some scaling options. I doubt your
    background image will look good when stretched 150% horizontally and
    70% vertically for instance.

    > My use and knowledge of HTML is limited so any insights would help.
    > Note the following tag (I am not using CSS but have during various design
    > phases):
    >
    > <body text="#ff9900" link="#FF9900" vlink="#0099FF" Style=
    > "margin-top:20px; margin-left:20px; background-image:url('Damsel_fly.JPG');
    > background-repeat: no-repeat">


    Having used CSS during various design phases is no excuse for ending
    up with using text, link and vlink attributes in a body element ;-)

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
     
    Els, Dec 11, 2005
    #2
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  3. PJB wrote:

    > Is there a way to define the size of a page's background image
    > so it spans 100% of any screen?


    No. You can fake it with a foreground image with content layered over it
    using absolute positioning, but that's a bad idea (from the semantic point
    of view, but also from the problems you can if CSS is turned off or
    unavailable, and that bitmaps don't scale all that well anyway).

    Having backgrounds that can tile (at least in part, a tiling section in the
    middle can have non-tiling selections on each side of it) or that fade to a
    plain background colour is generally a good idea.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
     
    David Dorward, Dec 11, 2005
    #3
  4. PJB

    Peterken Guest

    "PJB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Is there a way to define the size of a page's background image
    > so it spans 100% of any screen? Depending upon the computer
    > and screen resolution, my background images do not always fill
    > the screen. My default design resolution has been 800 X 600 but
    > on a wide-screen laptop at a higher resolution, this looks like a
    > design error (see www.pjbird.com). Currently, I set my text formatting
    > to span only 800 pixels but would like the background image to fill
    > the page.
    >
    > Should I reformat my images to a larger dimension?
    > Is there an HTML command to set the image width to span 100% of
    > the screen (like a table option)?
    > Should I use a layer tag or other option?
    >
    > My use and knowledge of HTML is limited so any insights would help.
    > Note the following tag (I am not using CSS but have during various design
    > phases):
    >
    > <body text="#ff9900" link="#FF9900" vlink="#0099FF" Style=
    > "margin-top:20px; margin-left:20px;
    > background-image:url('Damsel_fly.JPG');
    > background-repeat: no-repeat">
    >
    > PJB
    >


    only way I know of is using JS....
    but then users with JS disabled don't have the advantage

    several can be found just googling for it
     
    Peterken, Dec 11, 2005
    #4
  5. PJB

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Toby Inkster, Dec 11, 2005
    #5
  6. PJB

    Peterken Guest

    "Toby Inkster" <> wrote in message
    news:5n.co.uk...
    > PJB wrote:
    >
    >> Is there a way to define the size of a page's background image
    >> so it spans 100% of any screen?

    >
    > Not really. There will be in CSS 3, but that's still a long way off.
    >
    > It's possible to fake it with a little scripting though:
    > http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/grad/grad
    >
    > --
    > Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    > Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact



    There's another one going around, resizign and even creating form of "fixed"
    background and working in IE and netscape (dunno for others):

    Documented in the code below, a script is included in the <head> section
    using
    <!--including javascript for resize -->
    <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"
    src="./scripts/backgrdresize_move.js"></script>



    The actual script in the backgrdresize_move.js file

    <!--
    /* //------------------------------------------------------------
    // Background Image WITH moving/resizing background
    // Document Image resize
    //-------------------------------------------------------------*/

    /******** explanation
    MUST create a layer with name "BGimglayer" between the <body> and </body>
    tags AND set an onload="ImageOffset()"
    MUST have the ID of the image to be "imageBG", is done in same part below

    Example of layer code for body:

    <body onload="ImageOffset()" background="./deep.jpg">

    <!-- the part used for moving/resizing image background, somewhere in the
    body section -->
    <div style="position: absolute; width: 848px; height: 577px; z-index: -1;
    left: 1px; top: 0px" id="BGimglayer">
    <script type="text/javascript">
    document.write('<img border="0" src=' + document.body.background + '
    width="' + winWid + '" height="' + winHgt + '"' + 'id="imageBG">');
    </script>
    </div>
    (-----rest of the page here------)
    </body>
    ********* end explanation */

    // vars holding window size
    var winWid;
    var winHgt;

    function ImageOffset()
    {

    // check iexplore or netscape for image size
    winWid = document.all ? document.body.clientWidth : innerWidth;
    winHgt = document.all ? document.body.clientHeight : innerHeight;

    // reducing a bit to avoid 'jumping' image
    winWid = winWid - 3;
    winHgt = winHgt - 3;

    // move layer
    if(document.all) // iexplore
    {
    document.all['BGimglayer'].style.posLeft = document.body.scrollLeft;
    document.all['BGimglayer'].style.posTop = document.body.scrollTop;
    }
    else if(document.layers) // netscape
    {
    document.layers['BGimglayer'].pageX = window.pageXOffset;
    document.layers['BGimglayer'].pageY = window.pageYOffset;
    }

    // resize layer
    BGimglayer.width = winWid ;
    BGimglayer.height = winHgt ;
    // resize image
    document.getElementById("imageBG").width=winWid;
    document.getElementById("imageBG").height=winHgt;

    window.onresize = ImageOffset;

    setTimeout('ImageOffset()',100);
    }
    //-->
     
    Peterken, Dec 11, 2005
    #6
  7. PJB wrote:
    > Is there a way to define the size of a page's background image
    > so it spans 100% of any screen? Depending upon the computer
    > and screen resolution, my background images do not always fill
    > the screen. My default design resolution has been 800 X 600 but
    > on a wide-screen laptop at a higher resolution, this looks like a
    > design error (see www.pjbird.com). Currently, I set my text formatting
    > to span only 800 pixels but would like the background image to fill
    > the page.
    >
    > Should I reformat my images to a larger dimension?
    > Is there an HTML command to set the image width to span 100% of
    > the screen (like a table option)?
    > Should I use a layer tag or other option?
    >
    > My use and knowledge of HTML is limited so any insights would help.
    > Note the following tag (I am not using CSS but have during various design
    > phases):
    >
    > <body text="#ff9900" link="#FF9900" vlink="#0099FF" Style=
    > "margin-top:20px; margin-left:20px; background-image:url('Damsel_fly.JPG');
    > background-repeat: no-repeat">


    Another way to fake it with CSS, here assuming background image very dark

    <style type="text/css">
    HTML, BODY {
    width: 100% height: 100%; color: white; background-color: black; }
    /* bg image only specify width so it will not distort when scaling */
    #bg, #content { position: absolute; width: 100%; }
    #content {height: 100% }
    </style>


    <body>
    <img id="bg" src="YourBackgroundImage.jpg" alt="">
    <div id="content">
    <p>Put your page content here...</p>
    </div>
    </body>


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Dec 11, 2005
    #7
  8. PJB

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Peterken wrote:

    > There's another one going around, resizign and even creating form of "fixed"
    > background and working in IE and netscape (dunno for others):


    You will notice though that the background appears nasty and pixelated.
    This is because, mostly for speed puposes, browsers do a really bad job of
    resizing images. (Except Opera, which only does a slightly bad job.)

    If you want nice smooth curves and flowing lines, your image will have to
    be resized *before* the browser sees it.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Dec 12, 2005
    #8
  9. PJB

    Peterken Guest

    "Toby Inkster" <> wrote in message
    news:5n.co.uk...
    > Peterken wrote:
    >
    >> There's another one going around, resizign and even creating form of
    >> "fixed"
    >> background and working in IE and netscape (dunno for others):

    >
    > You will notice though that the background appears nasty and pixelated.
    > This is because, mostly for speed puposes, browsers do a really bad job of
    > resizing images. (Except Opera, which only does a slightly bad job.)
    >
    > If you want nice smooth curves and flowing lines, your image will have to
    > be resized *before* the browser sees it.
    >
    > --
    > Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    > Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    >


    Think that depends on the choice of the original image of course:
    I've been using 1600*1200*32 images, and am using 1600*1200*32 screen
    setting myself, looks fine in that and in smaller for IE and netscape
    I can imagine though that when using 640*400 (or smaller) images to be
    stretched and displayed on a 1600*1200 screen it looks just awfull.
    My idea : When using a "dynamically stretched image" use one for the highest
    expected screen resolution, the lower resolutions won't get worse then.
     
    Peterken, Dec 12, 2005
    #9
  10. PJB

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Peterken wrote:

    > My idea : When using a "dynamically stretched image" use one for the highest
    > expected screen resolution, the lower resolutions won't get worse then.


    They will get worse.

    e.g. 1600x1200 isn't an exact multiple of 1280x1024 -- they're even at
    different aspect ratios, so your 1600x1200 image will look crap. It will
    also be a huge download.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Dec 12, 2005
    #10
  11. PJB

    PJB Guest

    Thanks you for all the suggestions.

    I successfully applied Jonathan's suggestion to my Index page
    (see www.pjbird.com). The picture re-sizes nicely at different resolutions
    and aspect ratios and does not loose quality. Thanks for that!

    Inevitably, page elements will appear in different locations depending on
    the resolution and aspect ratio. This is to be expected and I will have to
    play around a bit.

    PJB


    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    news:439cb8dd$0$8168$...
    > PJB wrote:
    >> Is there a way to define the size of a page's background image
    >> so it spans 100% of any screen? Depending upon the computer
    >> and screen resolution, my background images do not always fill
    >> the screen. My default design resolution has been 800 X 600 but
    >> on a wide-screen laptop at a higher resolution, this looks like a
    >> design error (see www.pjbird.com). Currently, I set my text formatting
    >> to span only 800 pixels but would like the background image to fill
    >> the page.
    >>
    >> Should I reformat my images to a larger dimension?
    >> Is there an HTML command to set the image width to span 100% of
    >> the screen (like a table option)?
    >> Should I use a layer tag or other option?
    >>
    >> My use and knowledge of HTML is limited so any insights would help.
    >> Note the following tag (I am not using CSS but have during various design
    >> phases):
    >>
    >> <body text="#ff9900" link="#FF9900" vlink="#0099FF" Style=
    >> "margin-top:20px; margin-left:20px;
    >> background-image:url('Damsel_fly.JPG');
    >> background-repeat: no-repeat">

    >
    > Another way to fake it with CSS, here assuming background image very dark
    >
    > <style type="text/css">
    > HTML, BODY {
    > width: 100% height: 100%; color: white; background-color: black; }
    > /* bg image only specify width so it will not distort when scaling */ #bg,
    > #content { position: absolute; width: 100%; }
    > #content {height: 100% }
    > </style>
    >
    >
    > <body>
    > <img id="bg" src="YourBackgroundImage.jpg" alt="">
    > <div id="content">
    > <p>Put your page content here...</p>
    > </div>
    > </body>
    >
    >
    > --
    > Take care,
    >
    > Jonathan
    > -------------------
    > LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    > http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    PJB, Dec 12, 2005
    #11
  12. PJB wrote:

    > Thanks you for all the suggestions.


    Please don't top post.
    http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?How_to_post

    > I successfully applied Jonathan's suggestion to my Index page
    > (see www.pjbird.com). The picture re-sizes nicely at different resolutions
    > and aspect ratios and does not loose quality. Thanks for that!


    Umm ... http://dorward.me.uk/tmp/pjbird.jpeg

    .... and, BTW, search engines are not impressed by keyword stuffing.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
     
    David Dorward, Dec 12, 2005
    #12
  13. PJB

    Peterken Guest

    "Toby Inkster" <> wrote in message
    news:5n.co.uk...
    > Peterken wrote:
    >
    >> My idea : When using a "dynamically stretched image" use one for the
    >> highest
    >> expected screen resolution, the lower resolutions won't get worse then.

    >
    > They will get worse.
    >
    > e.g. 1600x1200 isn't an exact multiple of 1280x1024 -- they're even at
    > different aspect ratios, so your 1600x1200 image will look crap. It will
    > also be a huge download.
    >
    > --
    > Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    > Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    >


    as is 800*600 no exact multiple of 640*480
    as is 1024*768 no exact multiple of 800*600 or 640*480
    as is 1280*1024 no exact multiple of 1024*768 or 800*600 or 640*480

    It *never* is, neither are the aspect ratios, so I still remain with using
    the highest image fore not stretching beyond representativity.....
    And it's not such a big file, a jpg of 1600*1200 may well be below 50k when
    selecting a bit
     
    Peterken, Dec 12, 2005
    #13
  14. PJB

    Peterken Guest


    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    > news:439cb8dd$0$8168$...
    >> PJB wrote:
    >>> Is there a way to define the size of a page's background image
    >>> so it spans 100% of any screen? Depending upon the computer
    >>> and screen resolution, my background images do not always fill
    >>> the screen. My default design resolution has been 800 X 600 but
    >>> on a wide-screen laptop at a higher resolution, this looks like a
    >>> design error (see www.pjbird.com). Currently, I set my text formatting
    >>> to span only 800 pixels but would like the background image to fill
    >>> the page.
    >>>
    >>> Should I reformat my images to a larger dimension?
    >>> Is there an HTML command to set the image width to span 100% of
    >>> the screen (like a table option)?
    >>> Should I use a layer tag or other option?
    >>>
    >>> My use and knowledge of HTML is limited so any insights would help.
    >>> Note the following tag (I am not using CSS but have during various
    >>> design
    >>> phases):
    >>>
    >>> <body text="#ff9900" link="#FF9900" vlink="#0099FF" Style=
    >>> "margin-top:20px; margin-left:20px;
    >>> background-image:url('Damsel_fly.JPG');
    >>> background-repeat: no-repeat">

    >>
    >> Another way to fake it with CSS, here assuming background image very dark
    >>
    >> <style type="text/css">
    >> HTML, BODY {
    >> width: 100% height: 100%; color: white; background-color: black; }
    >> /* bg image only specify width so it will not distort when scaling */
    >> #bg, #content { position: absolute; width: 100%; }
    >> #content {height: 100% }
    >> </style>
    >>
    >>
    >> <body>
    >> <img id="bg" src="YourBackgroundImage.jpg" alt="">
    >> <div id="content">
    >> <p>Put your page content here...</p>
    >> </div>
    >> </body>
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> Take care,
    >>
    >> Jonathan
    >> -------------------
    >> LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    >> http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

    >
    >

    "PJB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks you for all the suggestions.
    >
    > I successfully applied Jonathan's suggestion to my Index page
    > (see www.pjbird.com). The picture re-sizes nicely at different resolutions
    > and aspect ratios and does not loose quality. Thanks for that!
    >
    > Inevitably, page elements will appear in different locations depending on
    > the resolution and aspect ratio. This is to be expected and I will have to
    > play around a bit.
    >
    > PJB
    >


    Nice layout, text neatly over image, counter visible, all readable.
    Nevertheless the image is also distorting when resizing width, just like the
    scripts do, be it non-disturbing due to content.
     
    Peterken, Dec 12, 2005
    #14
  15. PJB

    Peterken Guest


    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in message
    > news:439cb8dd$0$8168$...
    >> PJB wrote:
    >>> Is there a way to define the size of a page's background image
    >>> so it spans 100% of any screen?

    >> <snip>
    >>
    >> Another way to fake it with CSS, here assuming background image very dark
    >>
    >> <style type="text/css">
    >> HTML, BODY {
    >> width: 100% height: 100%; color: white; background-color: black; }
    >> /* bg image only specify width so it will not distort when scaling */
    >> #bg, #content { position: absolute; width: 100%; }
    >> #content {height: 100% }
    >> </style>
    >>
    >>
    >> <body>
    >> <img id="bg" src="YourBackgroundImage.jpg" alt="">
    >> <div id="content">
    >> <p>Put your page content here...</p>
    >> </div>
    >> </body>
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> Take care,
    >>
    >> Jonathan
    >> -------------------
    >> LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    >> http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

    >
    >

    "PJB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks you for all the suggestions.
    >
    > I successfully applied Jonathan's suggestion to my Index page
    > (see www.pjbird.com). The picture re-sizes nicely at different resolutions
    > and aspect ratios and does not loose quality. Thanks for that!
    >
    > Inevitably, page elements will appear in different locations depending on
    > the resolution and aspect ratio. This is to be expected and I will have to
    > play around a bit.
    >
    > PJB
    >
    >



    Nice trick, but what if PJB's pages' contents is alot larger then the
    background image ?

    In other words:
    Is it possible using Jonathans CSS to have a "pseudo-fixed" background image
    (and
    resized in the way PJB wanted)
    AND
    having the body scroll over it, thus a simulation of retaining the image
    ever in the viewport ?
    (ok, I admit, maybe a bit of a silly question, but I'm rather new to CSS so
    forgive me....)
     
    Peterken, Dec 12, 2005
    #15
  16. PJB wrote:
    > Thanks you for all the suggestions.
    >
    > I successfully applied Jonathan's suggestion to my Index page
    > (see www.pjbird.com). The picture re-sizes nicely at different resolutions
    > and aspect ratios and does not loose quality. Thanks for that!
    >
    > Inevitably, page elements will appear in different locations depending on
    > the resolution and aspect ratio. This is to be expected and I will have to
    > play around a bit.
    >

    <snip>

    (Whew finally got my news server back!) Your page has problems because
    of some of your code, I answered this in the Mozilla NG.

    Anyway, it is not working properly because you are messing up the CSS
    with some HTML.

    1) if you do not want the dragonfly to distort remove the HTML 'width'
    and 'height' attributes on the image, let the CSS set the only the width
    to 100% can the height will scale accordingly.
    2) you might want to set your BODY background-color to something dark or
    black so that with narrow windows the area not covered by your image
    will be dark and your text readable.
    3) dump all the old '<body link="#FF9900" vlink="#0099FF">' and use the
    CSS for this....



    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Dec 14, 2005
    #16
  17. PJB

    PJB Guest

    "Jonathan N. Little" wrote in message
    > PJB wrote:
    >> I successfully applied Jonathan's suggestion to my Index page
    >> (see www.pjbird.com). The picture re-sizes nicely at different
    >> resolutions and aspect ratios and does not loose quality. Thanks for
    >> that!
    >>

    > <snip>
    > Anyway, it is not working properly because you are messing up the CSS with
    > some HTML.
    >
    > 1) if you do not want the dragonfly to distort remove the HTML 'width' and
    > 'height' attributes on the image, let the CSS set the only the width to
    > 100% can the height will scale accordingly.
    > 2) you might want to set your BODY background-color to something dark or
    > black so that with narrow windows the area not covered by your image will
    > be dark and your text readable.
    > 3) dump all the old '<body link="#FF9900" vlink="#0099FF">' and use the
    > CSS for this....


    Ok, bear with me... The CSS you suggested (Dec. 11) had two height settings
    within the CSS. I deleted the first but I am not sure about the last line:
    #content {height: 100%}
    Can I delete this also?

    The damsel fly image scales OK but it pixalates a bit on wider screens. This
    I can live with. Otherwise, I have been trying different approaches on the
    other pages -- re-sizing / rescaling / resampling the background image files
    etc. Ideally, where I have lots of text I would like the background image to
    remain fixed with all text scrolling in front. Pictures blending into the
    background colour will work. Eventually,I'll have all pages using CSSs. I
    just
    have to learn that and PhotoShop!

    PJB
     
    PJB, Dec 15, 2005
    #17
  18. PJB wrote:
    <snip>
    >
    > Ok, bear with me... The CSS you suggested (Dec. 11) had two height settings
    > within the CSS. I deleted the first but I am not sure about the last line:
    > #content {height: 100%}
    > Can I delete this also?

    The purpose is to expand height of content div to match body element in
    case you a wanted to position or size and child elements relative to the
    page. if you have not such need then it could be deleted.
    >
    > The damsel fly image scales OK but it pixalates a bit on wider screens. This
    > I can live with. Otherwise, I have been trying different approaches on the
    > other pages -- re-sizing / rescaling / resampling the background image files
    > etc. Ideally, where I have lots of text I would like the background image to
    > remain fixed with all text scrolling in front. Pictures blending into the
    > background colour will work. Eventually,I'll have all pages using CSSs. I
    > just
    > have to learn that and PhotoShop!


    Some browsers a better than others but all are inferior to a image
    resampled and optimized with image editor software. It will alway be a
    compromise of file size/quality


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Dec 18, 2005
    #18
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    0
    Views:
    486
  2. Lukasz Glaz

    Backgrounds

    Lukasz Glaz, Mar 27, 2006, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    437
    Lukasz Glaz
    Mar 27, 2006
  3. GccTX
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    512
    Duende
    May 26, 2004
  4. Stefan Tappertzhofen

    Force to print backgrounds

    Stefan Tappertzhofen, Jun 30, 2004, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    2,845
  5. Leif K-Brooks

    IE bug with backgrounds?

    Leif K-Brooks, Aug 19, 2004, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    421
    Leif K-Brooks
    Aug 19, 2004
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