Slightly OT - Rant re table abuse

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Adrienne Boswell, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. I like to shop online - I especially like shopping for groceries on
    line because I don't have to worry about taking my preschooler to the
    store with me and listening to him cry because he can't have
    something.

    What I don't like this is the store I use - Vons/Safeway horribly
    abuses tables and uses images for EVERYTHING, so it takes FOREVER to
    see what my last order was. They use ASPX, which explains some of why
    it's so bad, but I have seen other ASPX sites that are not as bad,
    heck, they can even validate if the author is conscientious.

    The whole point of this post is a warning to those who want to abuse
    tables, use images for input buttons, gratitous javascript, etc.
    Please don't do that! Users want to get in an out quickly - especially
    if it's a place they frequent often.

    There - I feel better, thank you.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at work
    Administrator nextBlock.com
    http://atlas.nextblock.com/files/
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, Feb 28, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On Feb 28, 4:02 pm, "Adrienne Boswell" <> wrote:
    > I like to shop online - I especially like shopping for groceries on
    > line because I don't have to worry about taking my preschooler to the
    > store with me and listening to him cry because he can't have
    > something.


    You need to discipline your son so he won't do that. It is obviously
    a bad behavior. Perhaps VON's abuse of the tables is only a symptom
    of the real problem, that is, your son's behaviors?

    > They use ASPX, which explains some of why
    > it's so bad, but I have seen other ASPX sites that are not as bad,
    > heck, they can even validate if the author is conscientious.


    ASPX is not alive and can do nothing by itself. I am sure ASPX is not
    the culprit. It is those programing the ASPX that cause problems.
    (The same for ASP, PHP or anything else.)

    > The whole point of this post is a warning to those who want to abuse
    > tables, use images for input buttons, gratitous javascript, etc.
    > Please don't do that! Users want to get in an out quickly - especially
    > if it's a place they frequent often.


    I was able to see everything just fine, and the speed was more than
    acceptable to me. I saw no issues at all (well the stupid Flash
    splash screen was a waste of my time, but easily bypassed)

    Some of your issues seem to be personal preference. I tend to like
    the pictures and really have no issue with the speed or the use of
    tables for layout, you (and others) feel differently. I guess if
    enough of those that don't like the current website either write to
    them, or just stop using the site and take their business elsewhere,
    they will get the idea and change. But if there are no (or not
    enough) complaints and they don't see a decrease in sales, then they
    can only assume that their site is working fine and there is no need
    to change.

    > There - I feel better, thank you.

    You may want to think about disciplining your son though. That
    "crying because he can't have something" behavior will only get worse
    as he gets older... (according to the University of Virginia and
    others)
     
    Travis Newbury, Mar 1, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Adrienne Boswell

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 1 Mar, 11:49, "Travis Newbury" <> wrote:
    > On Feb 28, 4:02 pm, "Adrienne Boswell" <> wrote:
    >
    > > I like to shop online - I especially like shopping for groceries on
    > > line because I don't have to worry about taking my preschooler to the
    > > store with me and listening to him cry because he can't have
    > > something.

    >
    > You need to discipline your son so he won't do that. It is obviously
    > a bad behavior. Perhaps VON's abuse of the tables is only a symptom
    > of the real problem, that is, your son's behaviors?


    I can see the bumper sticker already:

    "<TABLE>s for layout makes Baby Boswell cry"
     
    Andy Dingley, Mar 1, 2007
    #3
  4. Adrienne Boswell

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 28 Feb, 21:02, "Adrienne Boswell" <> wrote:

    > The whole point of this post is a warning to those who want to abuse
    > tables, use images for input buttons, gratitous javascript, etc.
    > Please don't do that! Users want to get in an out quickly - especially
    > if it's a place they frequent often.


    I bought some holidays on-line last week. Just a weekend away, just
    £800 of business.

    I _didn't_ buy them from Thomsons, because their non-fluid layout
    broke with our font sizes, so we were simply unable to buy them from
    that site. It's just one data point, but it's not too far from "One
    line of bad CSS already cost them more business than a couple of days'
    web-coder time"
     
    Andy Dingley, Mar 1, 2007
    #4
  5. On Mar 1, 7:37 am, "Andy Dingley" <> wrote:
    > I _didn't_ buy them from Thomsons, because their non-fluid layout
    > broke with our font sizes, so we were simply unable to buy them from
    > that site. It's just one data point, but it's not too far from "One
    > line of bad CSS already cost them more business than a couple of days'
    > web-coder time"


    A while ago one of the airline ticket sellers lost my business because
    their pop up calendar did not work with FF and there was no way to
    manually enter the date. (I tested it with IE and it worked fine, but
    that wasn't the point) I sent them a comment telling them they lost my
    business. Obviously others saw it to be an issue too and they have
    since changed.

    If we do not let the companies know what we don't like, they won't
    change. I am pretty easy going. If I can accomplish my goal on a
    website, I really don't care if they use Flash or plain text (though I
    enjoy and even prefer the "Flashier" sites) But I don't lose any
    sleep over it one way or the other as long as I can get the job done.
     
    Travis Newbury, Mar 1, 2007
    #5
  6. Travis Newbury wote:
    > On Feb 28, 4:02 pm, "Adrienne Boswell" <> wrote:
    > > I like to shop online - I especially like shopping for groceries on
    > > line because I don't have to worry about taking my preschooler to the
    > > store with me and listening to him cry because he can't have
    > > something.

    >
    > You need to discipline your son so he won't do that. It is obviously
    > a bad behavior. Perhaps VON's abuse of the tables is only a symptom
    > of the real problem, that is, your son's behaviors?


    Actually, my son, who is three years old, does quite well for his
    age. Problem is, like all little ones, he can
    get bored before I am finished. Not my son's fault, not a bad
    behaivor problem. It's my problem because I take
    too long for HIM.

    >
    > > They use ASPX, which explains some of why
    > > it's so bad, but I have seen other ASPX sites that are not as bad,
    > > heck, they can even validate if the author is conscientious.

    >
    > ASPX is not alive and can do nothing by itself. I am sure ASPX is not
    > the culprit. It is those programing the ASPX that cause problems.
    > (The same for ASP, PHP or anything else.)


    Actually, that's not true. ASPX _does_ insert it's own brand of bad
    stuff. Classic ASP, just as PHP, is dependant on the developer for
    bad markup.

    >
    > > The whole point of this post is a warning to those who want to abuse
    > > tables, use images for input buttons, gratitous javascript, etc.
    > > Please don't do that! Users want to get in an out quickly - especially
    > > if it's a place they frequent often.

    >
    > I was able to see everything just fine, and the speed was more than
    > acceptable to me. I saw no issues at all (well the stupid Flash
    > splash screen was a waste of my time, but easily bypassed)


    What Flash? There's no flash splash screen. Maybe there're doing some
    kind of IP sniffing or something, because mine does not have any.

    >
    > Some of your issues seem to be personal preference. I tend to like
    > the pictures and really have no issue with the speed or the use of
    > tables for layout, you (and others) feel differently.


    What gets me is their use of images for simple increase/decrease
    quantity. If I load a page that has 20 products, there are 50
    images. Perhaps their caching is bad as well, because each one is a
    different request fo the server. That's why it takes so long.

    > I guess if
    > enough of those that don't like the current website either write to
    > them, or just stop using the site and take their business elsewhere,
    > they will get the idea and change. But if there are no (or not
    > enough) complaints and they don't see a decrease in sales, then they
    > can only assume that their site is working fine and there is no need
    > to change.


    I called them this morning to complete my order, because their was a
    server error and the order did not complete. While I was on phone
    with them, the rep was complaining about how slow the site was. I
    also said something about it, and she said she was going to report
    it. Maybe if enough people complain, they WILL do something about it.
    >
    > > There - I feel better, thank you.

    > You may want to think about disciplining your son though. That
    > "crying because he can't have something" behavior will only get worse
    > as he gets older... (according to the University of Virginia and
    > others)


    He doesn't do that. He knows better than to act that way. My biggest
    problem with him is him wanting to get out and push the cart - that's
    okay, but he's not a very good driver yet, so he has a tendency to run
    over my feet.
    --
    Adrienne Boswell at work
    Administrator nextBlock.com
    http://atlas.nextblock.com/files/
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, Mar 1, 2007
    #6
  7. On Mar 1, 12:52 pm, "Adrienne Boswell" <> wrote:
    > > You need to discipline your son so he won't do that.

    > He doesn't do that. He knows better than to act that way....


    You know I was being factitious right?
     
    Travis Newbury, Mar 1, 2007
    #7
  8. Travis Newbury wote:
    > On Mar 1, 12:52 pm, "Adrienne Boswell" <> wrote:
    > > > You need to discipline your son so he won't do that.

    > > He doesn't do that. He knows better than to act that way....

    >
    > You know I was being factitious right?


    No, but that's okay... I always have to step back and take a look at
    what _I_ am doing. It's a nice reminder. Thanks!

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at work
    Administrator nextBlock.com
    http://atlas.nextblock.com/files/
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, Mar 1, 2007
    #8
  9. Adrienne Boswell

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 1 Mar, 18:20, "Travis Newbury" <> wrote:

    > You know I was being factitious right?


    I think you mean "facetious", from the Latin for "full of shit".

    How _dare_ you ever tell someone else how to handle their kids,
    especially when (for all we on Usenet know) you're no more than a Perl-
    script Liza running in text mode.

    Child behaviour is complicated and the "why" of why some kids behave
    as they do is far from obvious from a one-line description. Don't
    assume bad behaviour, bad parents or bad kids until you begin to have
    the faintest idea of the real situation.
     
    Andy Dingley, Mar 2, 2007
    #9
  10. On Mar 2, 6:58 am, "Andy Dingley" <> wrote:
    > > You know I was being factitious right?

    > I think you mean "facetious", from the Latin for "full of shit".


    Nope, I meant "factitious", from the Greek for "nice tits"

    > How _dare_ you ever tell someone else how to handle their kids,
    > especially when (for all we on Usenet know) you're no more than a Perl-
    > script Liza running in text mode.


    No I'm not not not not not not not not

    > Child behaviour is complicated and the "why" of why some kids behave
    > as they do is far from obvious from a one-line description. Don't
    > assume bad behaviour, bad parents or bad kids until you begin to have
    > the faintest idea of the real situation.


    Nope, I am an expert in child behavior as well as a Flash expert.
    Come to think of it, on usenet, I am pretty much an expert on
    everything...
     
    Travis Newbury, Mar 2, 2007
    #10
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Adrienne Boswell

    OT: Nested Table Rant

    Adrienne Boswell, Oct 30, 2003, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    48
    Views:
    1,217
    John W.
    Nov 3, 2003
  2. rossz
    Replies:
    31
    Views:
    1,051
    Rincewind
    Sep 25, 2005
  3. Graeme

    STL abuse

    Graeme, Jan 7, 2004, in forum: C++
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    564
    tom_usenet
    Jan 7, 2004
  4. Richard

    Complaints to

    Richard, Jul 22, 2004, in forum: C++
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,778
    Richard
    Jul 22, 2004
  5. Kal Iyer
    Replies:
    10
    Views:
    650
    Victor Bazarov
    Dec 9, 2004
Loading...

Share This Page