Slogan: Getting Rich Overnight

Discussion in 'Python' started by Christian Tismer, Aug 9, 2003.

  1. Dear friends.

    During a conversation with good friends and newly acquired
    Pythonista, we were discussing Python, what it is in essence,
    and what it is giving to us.

    The people were Dinu Gherman, Giorgio Giacomazzi,
    a promizing newcomer in the Python noosphere, and myself.

    We were discussing how to advertize for Python, and Dinu
    spread some of the recent library enhancements, like

    - email package
    - XML parsers
    - distutils
    - add lots of other great stuff, here.

    Then, after a while of silence, Giorgio said something like
    """
    Well, right.
    But despite of the libraries, I was hit by pure Python,
    by the following, simply by using it interactively:

    There are these lists, these tuples, and these dicts.
    They are immediately there, at my fingertips. And this is
    a feeling that I never had, before. Especially these dicts
    are incredible.

    This was a feeling like 'getting rich overnight'.
    """

    I loved this statement very much, and I have to say, this
    is essentially my feeling for myself, since many years now.
    I could imagine that this might be a candidate for next year's
    Python congress' slogan. "Python makes you rich, overnight".
    Not by money, in the first place, but by multiplying your
    own capabilities, immediately.

    It needed the fresh experience of a newcomer to become aware
    of this, again.

    The ambiguity is obvious. On first reading, it will attract
    many. On second reading, those who are thinking "ahh, ohh, yes,
    not I understand" will remain. But that's ok for a good slogan!

    got rich overnight by Python!

    being rich since 1800 nights now - sincerely -- chris

    --
    Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:>
    Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
    Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
    14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
    work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 pager +49 173 24 18 776
    PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
    whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/
    Christian Tismer, Aug 9, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Christian Tismer

    dan Guest

    Great post! Yes, I felt the same way when I first saw the language.
    It's funny because I had a company and we bought a company, and they
    said they were using Python as their scripting language, but we had to
    close that division and I never really saw it.

    Then much later, I had a project that needed something with a clear
    syntax, more like english than C++. I fiddled with Python and fell in
    love. I haven't felt this way since I learned Basic in 7th grade (I
    know Basic sucks now, but then there was nothing else), or when I did
    my first assembly programming, or fiddled with Lisp and Forth. I
    never felt that way with C/C++, I have always felt like I was climbing
    uphill.

    When I first saw the indentation-critical, bracket-less syntax, it was
    like "Oh my god, how many years have I wasted trying to see where the
    braces correspond?"

    Many years ago I had an idea for a similar syntax, but I never pursued
    it. Now I don't have to, it is right there for me! This may sound
    silly, but since using Python, I have felt this wierd sense of
    liberation -- like my decision to become a programmer finally has
    meaning. I work for 2 or 3 hours, and I have coded so much I have to
    stop and think... With the typical strictly-typed langs popular in
    the last 15 years, I never feel productive. I am at war with the
    compiler, the linker, the libraries... it's a fight from beginning to
    end.

    I have many friends whose brains must be wired differently. They love
    the feeling of control a tough compiler gives them... they believe the
    compiler should do all the work for them. I am just different... I
    have always loved dynamic languages. I just want a thing to be
    whatever I want, and if I change my mind, I don't want to
    *necessarily* have to make new prototypes, new header files.. I just
    want to stick something else in that container, even though I never
    thought I would, and I never warned anyone.

    It's just -- well, it's freedom to code your own way. It's the
    antidote to code rage.

    Just my thoughts, late at night...

    Keep up the good work!!

    Christian Tismer <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Dear friends.
    >
    > During a conversation with good friends and newly acquired
    > Pythonista, we were discussing Python, what it is in essence,
    > and what it is giving to us.
    >
    > The people were Dinu Gherman, Giorgio Giacomazzi,
    > a promizing newcomer in the Python noosphere, and myself.
    >
    > We were discussing how to advertize for Python, and Dinu
    > spread some of the recent library enhancements, like
    >
    > - email package
    > - XML parsers
    > - distutils
    > - add lots of other great stuff, here.
    >
    > Then, after a while of silence, Giorgio said something like
    > """
    > Well, right.
    > But despite of the libraries, I was hit by pure Python,
    > by the following, simply by using it interactively:
    >
    > There are these lists, these tuples, and these dicts.
    > They are immediately there, at my fingertips. And this is
    > a feeling that I never had, before. Especially these dicts
    > are incredible.
    >
    > This was a feeling like 'getting rich overnight'.
    > """
    >
    > I loved this statement very much, and I have to say, this
    > is essentially my feeling for myself, since many years now.
    > I could imagine that this might be a candidate for next year's
    > Python congress' slogan. "Python makes you rich, overnight".
    > Not by money, in the first place, but by multiplying your
    > own capabilities, immediately.
    >
    > It needed the fresh experience of a newcomer to become aware
    > of this, again.
    >
    > The ambiguity is obvious. On first reading, it will attract
    > many. On second reading, those who are thinking "ahh, ohh, yes,
    > not I understand" will remain. But that's ok for a good slogan!
    >
    > got rich overnight by Python!
    >
    > being rich since 1800 nights now - sincerely -- chris
    dan, Aug 9, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Robert Kern wrote:
    >
    > While I certainly share that sentiment, I would advise caution in the
    > phrasing of such a slogan: if I hadn't seen your name, I would have
    > skipped your article as spam!


    I read it for amusement value. Nothing in computers gets you rich
    overnight, so I wanted to see how far the absurdity would go.

    --
    Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
    Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

    20% of the world is real.
    80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
    Brandon J. Van Every, Aug 9, 2003
    #3
  4. Timo Virkkala wrote:

    > Robert Kern wrote:

    ....

    >> While I certainly share that sentiment, I would advise caution in the
    >> phrasing
    >> of such a slogan: if I hadn't seen your name, I would have skipped
    >> your article
    >> as spam!

    >
    > I _did_, the first time around.


    Sure.
    I think, this cannot work in emails subject lines.
    If at all, then such a thing must be printed
    on T-Shirts.

    While sounding similar, but with a completely
    different meaning,

    "Getting rich comparisons overnight"

    might not be caught by SPAM filters :))

    --
    Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:>
    Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
    Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
    14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
    work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 pager +49 173 24 18 776
    PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
    whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/
    Christian Tismer, Aug 10, 2003
    #4
  5. Christian Tismer

    Cliff Wells Guest

    On Sun, 2003-08-10 at 14:56, Christian Tismer wrote:

    > But is there any way for such a slogan to pass spam at all?
    > If I remove the ambiguity, the slogan gets lame.
    > Any ideas?


    jkadf Getting Rich Overnight zxklaf

    --
    She licked her lips and turned to feather
    -Bauhaus
    Cliff Wells, Aug 11, 2003
    #5
  6. Christian Tismer

    Ben Finney Guest

    On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:56:01 +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
    > But is there any way for such a slogan to pass spam at all?


    The much greater battle is: if it passes electronic/programmatic
    filters, how are you going to get it past the wetware filters -- i.e.,
    the fact that it just sounds like spam when you hear it?

    > If I remove the ambiguity, the slogan gets lame.


    Anything with "get rich {quick,fast,overnight}" already has far too many
    negative connotations to sound un-lame.

    > Any ideas?


    Choose another slogan, forget the "get rich" nonsense. While the
    sentiment is great, and I agree it's a wonderful feeling when you
    realise how much your options have increased with little effort, the
    "get rich overnight" just doesn't jibe with me.

    The feeling isn't one of being (financially) rich; it's one of being
    free from restrictions. Another thread recently mentioned the idea
    that, opposed to other languages, Python lets you go home on time.
    That's closer to the mark.

    --
    \ "If life deals you lemons, why not go kill someone with the |
    `\ lemons (maybe by shoving them down his throat)." -- Jack Handey |
    _o__) |
    http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B
    Ben Finney, Aug 11, 2003
    #6
  7. Ben Finney wrote:

    > On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:56:01 +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
    >
    >>But is there any way for such a slogan to pass spam at all?

    >
    >
    > The much greater battle is: if it passes electronic/programmatic
    > filters, how are you going to get it past the wetware filters -- i.e.,
    > the fact that it just sounds like spam when you hear it?


    It does not sound like spam when you read it.
    Getting you to read it is the trick.

    >>If I remove the ambiguity, the slogan gets lame.

    >
    > Anything with "get rich {quick,fast,overnight}" already has far too many
    > negative connotations to sound un-lame.


    Right. But is this my fault?

    > Choose another slogan, forget the "get rich" nonsense. While the
    > sentiment is great, and I agree it's a wonderful feeling when you
    > realise how much your options have increased with little effort, the
    > "get rich overnight" just doesn't jibe with me.


    Yeah, true. The bare fact that "getting rich overnight" has
    become something that we regard as spam:
    Isn't that telling us a *very very* bad story?
    The spammers *have* won, we are playing *their* games.
    Can you see it?

    > The feeling isn't one of being (financially) rich; it's one of being
    > free from restrictions. Another thread recently mentioned the idea
    > that, opposed to other languages, Python lets you go home on time.
    > That's closer to the mark.


    Fine. And you let spammers dictate to you what they want
    you to think? I do think this is going way too far.
    We have already allowed them to get too far.
    Did I say anything bad? Nothing at all, this was said by
    other people. And those are dictating to us, what to say
    and what not to say.
    SHould we really continue to support this?

    I hereby simply propose to prohibit SPAM. Really, really
    prohibiting it, with all legal consequences.

    I do want to be able to say that I got rich overnight,
    by using Python.

    When *we* are unable to accept such a statement, because
    *some* people are claiming this to be *their* spamming
    vocabulary, whose fault is this, then?
    I do believe this is *our* fault, because we allowed
    this to happen, silently. Shame on US.

    Shame on me as well, since I installed a SPAM filter,
    instead of starting a real fight which they can't win.

    cheers - chris

    --
    Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:>
    Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
    Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
    14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
    work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 pager +49 173 24 18 776
    PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
    whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/
    Christian Tismer, Aug 11, 2003
    #7
  8. Christian Tismer wrote:
    > Ben Finney wrote:
    >>
    >> Anything with "get rich {quick,fast,overnight}" already has far too
    >> many negative connotations to sound un-lame.

    >
    > Right. But is this my fault?


    Yes, it's your fault. The language already exists, and you know it's out
    there, so you are guilty of picking the extant lame words.

    Are you guilty of inventing the lame words? No, of course not. But if you
    say "**** you" to someone, does it matter who invented it?

    > Fine. And you let spammers dictate to you what they want
    > you to think?


    Dude, "get rich overnight" was lame way before spammers. Face it, your
    slogan only sounds good to the choir. Someone like me, who isn't converted
    on Python yet, rightfully asks "How stupid do you think I am?"

    > I do think this is going way too far.
    > We have already allowed them to get too far.
    > Did I say anything bad? Nothing at all, this was said by
    > other people. And those are dictating to us, what to say
    > and what not to say.
    > SHould we really continue to support this?


    Get over it. Go back to the drawing board, design another slogan. You test
    marketed your slogan, it failed. That's life. It doesn't take that much
    time and energy to come up with other slogans. Heck, given enough
    iterations, maybe you'll find a new career in marketing. Marketing is
    actually pretty important to the success of software, so you could even
    stick to high tech marketing.

    > I hereby simply propose to prohibit SPAM. Really, really
    > prohibiting it, with all legal consequences.


    We couldn't even get the UN to prohibit WMDs in a timely, accountable
    fashion. 12 years of Saddam's stonewalling, followed by a French suggestion
    that we should do 12..18 months more of it, despite the obvious
    implacability of the dictator. Suggest you look to illegal consequences,
    because legal ones can't do anything. The problem with illegal consequences
    in anti-SPAM arenas is the tend to only do collateral damage, not hit the
    perps.

    > I do want to be able to say that I got rich overnight, by using Python.


    Generally speaking, that's a Testimonial.

    > When *we* are unable to accept such a statement, because
    > *some* people are claiming this to be *their* spamming
    > vocabulary, whose fault is this, then?


    Yours. You are way too idealistic, worrying about langauge ownership issues
    that are completely beyond your control. Your idealism is your own fault.
    Pragmatists simply observe "this won't work" and move on with something that
    will.

    > Shame on me as well, since I installed a SPAM filter,
    > instead of starting a real fight which they can't win.


    Your idealism also inhibits your ability to make a realistic analysis on
    this point.

    --
    Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
    Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

    20% of the world is real.
    80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
    Brandon J. Van Every, Aug 11, 2003
    #8
  9. Re: Slogan: Getting *Slogan* Overnight

    Christian Tismer <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Ben Finney wrote:
    >
    > > On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 23:56:01 +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
    > >
    > >>But is there any way for such a slogan to pass spam at all?

    > >
    > >
    > > The much greater battle is: if it passes electronic/programmatic
    > > filters, how are you going to get it past the wetware filters -- i.e.,
    > > the fact that it just sounds like spam when you hear it?

    >
    > It does not sound like spam when you read it.
    > Getting you to read it is the trick.
    >


    Hey, Christian,

    How about...

    P rograms
    Y ou
    T hink-up
    H appen
    O ver
    N ight

    From some thoughts I was having along
    the lines of...

    P rogram (-ming? | -s? [ending sounds like mind contol])
    Y our
    T houghts (thinking)
    H appen-ing (-s?) (handleing objects [naturally | natively])
    O bjectivley
    N ow

    I nterpret (-ed | -er) (Indented? [this is implied])
    S tyle (scripts)
    T hat
    A ll ({anyone sees}|{accomodates seeing})
    S ee

    Ray St. Marie
    Raymond A. St. Marie, Aug 11, 2003
    #9
  10. Re: Slogan: Getting *Slogan* Overnight

    Raymond A. St. Marie wrote:
    >
    > How about...
    >
    > P rograms
    > Y ou
    > T hink-up
    > H appen
    > O ver
    > N ight


    [Faced with Programmer Marketing, a person runs screaming from the
    newsgroup.]

    Please You're Trying Hard Over Nothing


    --
    Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
    Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

    20% of the world is real.
    80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
    Brandon J. Van Every, Aug 11, 2003
    #10
  11. Christian Tismer

    Marc Wilson Guest

    In comp.lang.python, Christian Tismer <> (Christian
    Tismer) wrote in <>::

    |I hereby simply propose to prohibit SPAM. Really, really
    |prohibiting it, with all legal consequences.

    You have 2 problems:

    1) Defining it strictly enough that real spammers will be stopped, but
    companies can still maintain contact with their customer/prospect base:

    2) Making *every* jurisdiction in the world agree.

    Of which (2) is the more complicated. Some of the people who spam are major
    corporations, and will bring political influence to bear in their chosen
    jurisdiction (Florida, for many, where even elections are for sale).
    --
    Marc Wilson

    Cleopatra Consultants Limited - IT Consultants
    2 The Grange, Cricklade Street, Old Town, Swindon SN1 3HG
    Tel: (44/0) 70-500-15051 Fax: (44/0) 870 164-0054
    Mail: Web: http://www.cleopatra.co.uk
    _________________________________________________________________
    Try MailTraq at https://my.mailtraq.com/register.asp?code=cleopatra
    Marc Wilson, Aug 11, 2003
    #11
  12. Brandon J. Van Every wrote:

    > Christian Tismer wrote:
    >
    >>Ben Finney wrote:
    >>
    >>>Anything with "get rich {quick,fast,overnight}" already has far too
    >>>many negative connotations to sound un-lame.

    >>
    >>Right. But is this my fault?

    >
    >
    > Yes, it's your fault. The language already exists, and you know it's out
    > there, so you are guilty of picking the extant lame words.


    I was not picking them.
    They were said by another guy, who
    said in German
    "Python hat mich über nacht reich gemacht".

    My problem is not that sentence. In German,
    it still has a useful meaning.
    My problem is the impossibility
    to translate it into English without loosing meaning.

    ....

    > Dude, "get rich overnight" was lame way before spammers. Face it, your
    > slogan only sounds good to the choir. Someone like me, who isn't converted
    > on Python yet, rightfully asks "How stupid do you think I am?"


    I don't discuss that in public :)

    ciao - chris
    --
    Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:>
    Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
    Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
    14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
    work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 pager +49 173 24 18 776
    PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
    whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/
    Christian Tismer, Aug 11, 2003
    #12
  13. Christian Tismer wrote:
    [snip]

    > They were said by another guy, who
    > said in German
    > "Python hat mich über nacht reich gemacht".
    >
    > My problem is not that sentence. In German,
    > it still has a useful meaning.
    > My problem is the impossibility
    > to translate it into English without loosing meaning.


    How about "I hit the jackpot with Python"
    Steve Williams, Aug 11, 2003
    #13
  14. Christian Tismer

    Terry Reedy Guest

    "Christian Tismer" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was not picking them.
    > They were said by another guy, who
    > said in German
    > "Python hat mich über nacht reich gemacht".
    >
    > My problem is not that sentence. In German,
    > it still has a useful meaning.
    > My problem is the impossibility
    > to translate it into English without loosing meaning.


    "Python Makes You Glow' covers the main point.

    TJR
    Terry Reedy, Aug 11, 2003
    #14
  15. smarter_than_you wrote:
    > I know this is an old thread already, but my 2c --
    >
    > If that Brandon idiot hates it, it's a great slogan. Use it and let
    > the doubters be damned. Anyone who doesn't get the irony is not
    > worthy of understanding the sentiment.


    Wow, I know I've been a provocateur on this point, but surely that is
    throwing business rationality right out the window! At any rate, welcome to
    my killfile. If knee-jerkism is the extent of your marketing analysis, I
    surely don't need to hear about it.

    --
    Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
    Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

    20% of the world is real.
    80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
    Brandon J. Van Every, Aug 12, 2003
    #15
  16. Christian Tismer

    dan Guest

    "Brandon J. Van Every" <> wrote in message news:<bh9pu4

    > At any rate, welcome to
    > my killfile. If knee-jerkism is the extent of your marketing analysis, I
    > surely don't need to hear about it.


    If everyone who disagrees with you is on your killfile, how will you
    have any fun arguing? I don't give a shit about you or your killfile,
    this is about what's good for Python.

    I'm not knee-jerk. I've run a public company worth $1B. I know
    marketing. I think you're wrong, period. You think you know more
    than you do.

    It's a great slogan for its target audience. I'm going to put it on a
    T-shirt for myself and see what kinds of reactions I get.

    -smy
    dan, Aug 12, 2003
    #16
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