M
Massimiliano Mirra - bard
======================================================================
Subject: Ruby for 3D graphics?
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:32:42 -0700
Ok, I'm sick to death of C++. I'm moving on to a higher level language of
some kind. But, my lower level 3D graphics problems are not going to go
away. Why is Ruby exciting to a 3D graphics optimization jock?
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:04:03 -0700
Ok, good at scripting, not good at embedded. How about large systems
programming?
----
Subject: Evaluating Ruby objectively (not exactly)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700
I'd like to know how appropriate people think it is as a systems programming
language. Someone else said, scripting is good, embedded is bad. What
about huge honking piles of code? What happens as you scale up?
----
Subject: Re: This is a newsgroup, not a mailing list (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:50:28 -0700
Truthfully, I'm not looking for 3D graphics solutions right now. I'm
looking for:
1) a way to make money
2) a way to implement 2D games quickly in a cross-platform manner
======================================================================
Subject: Why did you switch from Python to Ruby?
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:52:58 -0700
This question is only meant to apply to people who used to use Python, but
switched to Ruby. Why did you do so?
----
Subject: Evaluating Ruby objectively (not exactly)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700
But I think it's probably going to be awhile before I know or care
what the difference between dynamism in Python and Ruby is.
----
Subject: social engineering (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:03:53 -0700
The important point that I recalled from discussion, is Python isn't
as backwards as the Ruby FAQ would have you believe. It keeps
improving and a lot of the issues go away over time.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:33 -0700
Well, the Python crowd recognizes and has all of these dilemmas. But the
reaction of the community isn't to sit there and say, "Oh, we can't win,
marketing is futile." They start a marketing-python list and deal with the
problem. They don't duck it, or handwave it away as unimportant. This is
the main way that Python is more advanced than Ruby. It is more advanced in
terms of community organization, tools and library support, marketing,
mindshare, etc. All that boring industrial stuff. The stuff it takes to
make a high flying language actually usable in an industrial context.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:25:29 -0700
You have distorted the meaning. I asked, "Why would you abandon Ruby?" Has
nothing to do with Python.
======================================================================
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:25:29 -0700
I'm bored with all kinds of things in computers. It comes from having
experience.
----
Subject: Evaluating Ruby objectively (not exactly)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700
For the most part I dislike programming,
----
Subject: the mindshare of Ruby (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:34:51 -0700
No it is not. Learning a new language is a time sink
----
Subject: Re: the mindshare of Ruby (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:54:41 -0700
I consider it pain and suffering.
======================================================================
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:59:32 -0700
Your attitudes are deeply ugly.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:39:23 -0700
I think you define "informed view" according to your own prejudices.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:11:50 -0700
Let me point out what you don't like.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:33 -0700
Recognize that if that's your attitude, people *won't* come.
----
Subject: Re: At least one nasty person in your community
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:33:05 -0700
You have a problem child.
----
Subject: social engineering (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:03:53 -0700
People fixate on what they want to have happen, rather than what's
going to happen. So they implement dysfunctional policies that don't
get them what they want. They iterate in endless loops because they
lack imagination.
----
Subject: Re: At least one nasty person in your community
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:46:23 -0700
IMO, certain people should accept blame for being hostile to me in the
first place.
======================================================================
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:59:32 -0700
Well, this is Usenet, and it ain't your show.
----
Subject: This is a newsgroup, not a mailing list (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:04:43 -0700
When you gate your mailing list to a USENET newsgroup, you are agreeing to
the standards of USENET. The gate is a convenience for you, not a right,
let alone an abrogation of general USENET standards. Your newsgroup has a
Charter.
----
Subject: Re: At least one nasty person in your community
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:46:23 -0700
IMO, the other thing you should do as a community, is start recognizing that
you're on a newsgroup, not a mailing list.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
See, that's how you see your community. Something private. Something to be
protected. Others see a newsgroup as a space of global public discourse.
With rules and mores common to all unmoderated newsgroups.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
It doesn't matter what you were before. You signed on to Usenet. There are
rules on Usenet for unmoderated newsgroups.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:44:33 -0700
Well, that's ridiculous.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
I don't have time for "hunt the FAQ." Your FAQ was not in my newsfeed when
I signed on.
----
Subject: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700
I don't believe in lurking "to get the feel," and never have. It is a
luxury for people with all the time in the world.
----
Subject: Brandon's personal style (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:28:20 -0700
But those are benefits to the Ruby community, not to me. Why am I supposed
to do things only for your community's benefit?
======================================================================
Subject: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700
I don't believe in lurking "to get the feel," and never have. It is a
luxury for people with all the time in the world.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
I don't have time for "hunt the FAQ." Your FAQ was not in my newsfeed when
I signed on.
----
Subject: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700
Nobody has the time. This is 2003. Things to do. Places to be.
----
bard@prism:/var/spool/news/comp/lang/ruby$ du -hc `grep -l 'From: "Brandon J. Van Every' *` | grep total
212k total
bard@prism:/var/spool/news/comp/lang/ruby$ grep -l 'From: "Brandon J. Van Every' * | xargs grep ^Date:
17133
ate: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:32:42 -0700
17248ate: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:48:58 -0700
17249ate: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:52:58 -0700
17279ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:05:56 +0900
17313ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:44:28 -0700
17328ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:01:52 -0700
17346ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:20:10 -0700
17347ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:32:20 -0700
17348ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:50:43 -0700
17352ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:04:03 -0700
17355ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:38:20 +0900
17360ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:53:04 -0700
17361ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:59:32 -0700
17362ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:07:14 -0700
17365ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:25:29 -0700
17366ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:39:23 -0700
17370ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:11:50 -0700
17375ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700
17376ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:38:28 -0700
17378ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:03:53 -0700
17382ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:34:51 -0700
17391ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:37:25 -0700
17392ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:41:29 -0700
17396ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:54:41 -0700
17398ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:16:42 -0700
17402ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:29:21 -0700
17404ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:39:22 -0700
17419ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:03:49 -0700
17420ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:04:43 -0700
17423ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700
17431ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:57:22 -0700
17432ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:00:48 -0700
17434ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:03:30 -0700
17435ate: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:51:19 +0900
17438ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:12:05 -0700
17443ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:33 -0700
17444ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:28:20 -0700
17446ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:33:05 -0700
17455ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:46:23 -0700
17457ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:50:28 -0700
17461ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:56:37 -0700
17465ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:12:50 -0700
17469ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:22:49 -0700
17472ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:26:26 -0700
17482ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
17484ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:44:33 -0700
17485ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:47:02 -0700
Subject: Ruby for 3D graphics?
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:32:42 -0700
Ok, I'm sick to death of C++. I'm moving on to a higher level language of
some kind. But, my lower level 3D graphics problems are not going to go
away. Why is Ruby exciting to a 3D graphics optimization jock?
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:04:03 -0700
Ok, good at scripting, not good at embedded. How about large systems
programming?
----
Subject: Evaluating Ruby objectively (not exactly)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700
I'd like to know how appropriate people think it is as a systems programming
language. Someone else said, scripting is good, embedded is bad. What
about huge honking piles of code? What happens as you scale up?
----
Subject: Re: This is a newsgroup, not a mailing list (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:50:28 -0700
Truthfully, I'm not looking for 3D graphics solutions right now. I'm
looking for:
1) a way to make money
2) a way to implement 2D games quickly in a cross-platform manner
======================================================================
Subject: Why did you switch from Python to Ruby?
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:52:58 -0700
This question is only meant to apply to people who used to use Python, but
switched to Ruby. Why did you do so?
----
Subject: Evaluating Ruby objectively (not exactly)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700
But I think it's probably going to be awhile before I know or care
what the difference between dynamism in Python and Ruby is.
----
Subject: social engineering (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:03:53 -0700
The important point that I recalled from discussion, is Python isn't
as backwards as the Ruby FAQ would have you believe. It keeps
improving and a lot of the issues go away over time.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:33 -0700
Well, the Python crowd recognizes and has all of these dilemmas. But the
reaction of the community isn't to sit there and say, "Oh, we can't win,
marketing is futile." They start a marketing-python list and deal with the
problem. They don't duck it, or handwave it away as unimportant. This is
the main way that Python is more advanced than Ruby. It is more advanced in
terms of community organization, tools and library support, marketing,
mindshare, etc. All that boring industrial stuff. The stuff it takes to
make a high flying language actually usable in an industrial context.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:25:29 -0700
You have distorted the meaning. I asked, "Why would you abandon Ruby?" Has
nothing to do with Python.
======================================================================
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:25:29 -0700
I'm bored with all kinds of things in computers. It comes from having
experience.
----
Subject: Evaluating Ruby objectively (not exactly)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -0700
For the most part I dislike programming,
----
Subject: the mindshare of Ruby (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:34:51 -0700
No it is not. Learning a new language is a time sink
----
Subject: Re: the mindshare of Ruby (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:54:41 -0700
I consider it pain and suffering.
======================================================================
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:59:32 -0700
Your attitudes are deeply ugly.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:39:23 -0700
I think you define "informed view" according to your own prejudices.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:11:50 -0700
Let me point out what you don't like.
----
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:33 -0700
Recognize that if that's your attitude, people *won't* come.
----
Subject: Re: At least one nasty person in your community
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:33:05 -0700
You have a problem child.
----
Subject: social engineering (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:03:53 -0700
People fixate on what they want to have happen, rather than what's
going to happen. So they implement dysfunctional policies that don't
get them what they want. They iterate in endless loops because they
lack imagination.
----
Subject: Re: At least one nasty person in your community
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:46:23 -0700
IMO, certain people should accept blame for being hostile to me in the
first place.
======================================================================
Subject: Re: Why would you abandon Ruby? (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:59:32 -0700
Well, this is Usenet, and it ain't your show.
----
Subject: This is a newsgroup, not a mailing list (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:04:43 -0700
When you gate your mailing list to a USENET newsgroup, you are agreeing to
the standards of USENET. The gate is a convenience for you, not a right,
let alone an abrogation of general USENET standards. Your newsgroup has a
Charter.
----
Subject: Re: At least one nasty person in your community
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:46:23 -0700
IMO, the other thing you should do as a community, is start recognizing that
you're on a newsgroup, not a mailing list.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
See, that's how you see your community. Something private. Something to be
protected. Others see a newsgroup as a space of global public discourse.
With rules and mores common to all unmoderated newsgroups.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
It doesn't matter what you were before. You signed on to Usenet. There are
rules on Usenet for unmoderated newsgroups.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:44:33 -0700
Well, that's ridiculous.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
I don't have time for "hunt the FAQ." Your FAQ was not in my newsfeed when
I signed on.
----
Subject: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700
I don't believe in lurking "to get the feel," and never have. It is a
luxury for people with all the time in the world.
----
Subject: Brandon's personal style (was)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:28:20 -0700
But those are benefits to the Ruby community, not to me. Why am I supposed
to do things only for your community's benefit?
======================================================================
Subject: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700
I don't believe in lurking "to get the feel," and never have. It is a
luxury for people with all the time in the world.
----
Subject: Re: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -0700
I don't have time for "hunt the FAQ." Your FAQ was not in my newsfeed when
I signed on.
----
Subject: Old guard FAQ culture
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -0700
Nobody has the time. This is 2003. Things to do. Places to be.
----
bard@prism:/var/spool/news/comp/lang/ruby$ du -hc `grep -l 'From: "Brandon J. Van Every' *` | grep total
212k total
bard@prism:/var/spool/news/comp/lang/ruby$ grep -l 'From: "Brandon J. Van Every' * | xargs grep ^Date:
17133
ate: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:32:42 -070017248
ate: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:48:58 -070017249
ate: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:52:58 -070017279
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:05:56 +090017313
ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:44:28 -070017328
ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:01:52 -070017346
ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:20:10 -070017347
ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:32:20 -070017348
ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:50:43 -070017352
ate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:04:03 -070017355
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:38:20 +090017360
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:53:04 -070017361
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:59:32 -070017362
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:07:14 -070017365
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:25:29 -070017366
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:39:23 -070017370
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:11:50 -070017375
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:37:22 -070017376
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:38:28 -070017378
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:03:53 -070017382
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:34:51 -070017391
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:37:25 -070017392
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:41:29 -070017396
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:54:41 -070017398
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:16:42 -070017402
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:29:21 -070017404
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:39:22 -070017419
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:03:49 -070017420
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:04:43 -070017423
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:22:54 -070017431
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:57:22 -070017432
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:00:48 -070017434
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:03:30 -070017435
ate: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:51:19 +090017438
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:12:05 -070017443
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:33 -070017444
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:28:20 -070017446
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:33:05 -070017455
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:46:23 -070017457
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:50:28 -070017461
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:56:37 -070017465
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:12:50 -070017469
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:22:49 -070017472
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:26:26 -070017482
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:50 -070017484
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:44:33 -070017485
ate: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:47:02 -0700