Strange applet behaviour on Windows XP

[Qu0ll]

I previously posted this under a thread titled "JSE 6 Update N (Build 6) on
XP" but I have now determined it has nothing to do with Update N per se and
affects any version of Java 6. I find that the JVM starts up very quickly
in the browser but the applet itself takes forever to load. It gets to
"Applet inited" and stays there for a couple of minutes and then it's a few
more minutes after "Applet started" before anything appears. This is with
an applet that loads almost instantaneously under Vista or Server 2003.
This behaviour is happening in both IE and Firefox.

Has anyone experienced anything similar or have a solution?

--
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Qu0ll wrote:
...

Has anyone experienced anything similar or have a solution?

WEB START.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

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[Qu0ll]

Qu0ll wrote:
..

WEB START.

Not you and your bloody Web Start again!

Andrew, do I need to qualify every post I make with the line "JAWS is not an
option for me - the software must run INSIDE the browser"? I know you don't
like applets but I do and I would very much like to know why all applets are
misbehaving on this particular machine.

--
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Not you and your bloody Web Start again!

Andrew, do I need to qualify every post I make with the line "JAWS is not an
option for me - the software must run INSIDE the browser"?

*Yes*!

What? You expect me to specifically remember every
person and the constraints of any particular project they
are working on?

I make scores of posts, across 3 regular, and many occasional
groups, every week.

Besides, what if someone *else* read your problem that
had never heard of you. If *you* have been reading this
forum as well as asking questions using it, you might have
noticed a thread recently starting with 'applet' where the
first three replies were the suggestion 'web start'. I was
only responsible for one of those replies.

I am not the only person who sees web start as a far
superior way to launch applets.

All it would take in each of your applet posts (for me to
understand) is the single line "must be embedded in a
web page".

..I know you don't
like applets but I do and I would very much like to know why all applets are
misbehaving on this particular machine.

Try searching Sun's bug database first.

Their own search is horridly slow, but try this alternate.
<http://www.google.com/search?as_q=applet&as_sitesearch=bugs.sun.com>

(Make it more specific, that is just a starting point.)

With applets "Bug happens" - regularly.

If it is not listed, it might be time (must be 'every other
week') to add a new one.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
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[Qu0ll]

*Yes*!

What? You expect me to specifically remember every
person and the constraints of any particular project they
are working on?

I make scores of posts, across 3 regular, and many occasional
groups, every week.

Besides, what if someone *else* read your problem that
had never heard of you. If *you* have been reading this
forum as well as asking questions using it, you might have
noticed a thread recently starting with 'applet' where the
first three replies were the suggestion 'web start'. I was
only responsible for one of those replies.

I am not the only person who sees web start as a far
superior way to launch applets.

All it would take in each of your applet posts (for me to
understand) is the single line "must be embedded in a
web page".


Try searching Sun's bug database first.

Their own search is horridly slow, but try this alternate.
<http://www.google.com/search?as_q=applet&as_sitesearch=bugs.sun.com>

(Make it more specific, that is just a starting point.)

With applets "Bug happens" - regularly.

If it is not listed, it might be time (must be 'every other
week') to add a new one.

Andrew, your point is taken; I will always indicate that Web Start is not an
option (where relevant) when posting from now on. However, the fact that
someone else received 3 replies to their applet-related post suggesting Web
Start as a solution has absolutely no bearing on my situation. I saw that
post - it wasn't relevant. I do read this group as well as ask questions.
To me, suggesting Web Start for an applet problem is like responding to
someone who posts with a Swing-related problem with "Have you heard of SWT?"
or vice versa.

--
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Qu0ll wrote:
...

To me, suggesting Web Start for an applet problem is like responding to
someone who posts with a Swing-related problem with "Have you heard of SWT?"
or vice versa.

If SWT could fix a problem that was 'unfixable' in
Swing I would say that myself. Are there any?

I am more likely to point out to people that ask a question
about *SWT*, that at least if they were asking about Swing,
they might get some answers (see how many SWT
threads transpire with no replies).

The difference between 'Applet' and 'Web Start Applet'
is much more profound though. Most of the questions
about applets are along the lines 'how do you make
an applet in XYZ browser do...?'. Having to account for
the differences in the way that *browsers* interact with
applets introduces a whole new level of problems,
increased maintenance costs, headaches and heartaches.

The very fact you would consider the decision between
Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you
have little idea just how bizarre, quixotic and problematic
applets (in browsers) can be.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200711/1

 

[Lew]

The very fact you would consider the decision between
Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you
have little idea just how bizarre, quixotic and problematic
applets (in browsers) can be.

Not quixotic, surely. Perhaps an applet developer is quixotic, but applets
themselves seem more like the windmill.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Not quixotic, surely. Perhaps an applet developer is quixotic, but applets
themselves seem more like the windmill.

You are possibly correct in that applets are not Quixotic,
though I cannot believe they are the windmill. If (water
pumping) windmills were as problematic as applets, they'd
have been replaced by a small dutch boy with a kite, that
had a bucket attached to the bottom by a string.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200711/1

 

[Qu0ll]

The very fact you would consider the decision between
Swing/SWT to be a logical parallel, suggests that you
have little idea just how bizarre, quixotic and problematic
applets (in browsers) can be.

Well I have encountered problems with applets and browsers but so far I see
no real reason to abandon my quest to produce a really effective and
powerful applet that doesn't force the user to leave the browser
environment. Problematic they may be but I still love applets!

--
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

 

[Lew]

You are possibly correct in that applets are not Quixotic,
though I cannot believe they are the windmill. If (water
pumping) windmills were as problematic as applets, they'd
have been replaced by a small dutch boy with a kite, that
had a bucket attached to the bottom by a string.

I meant "windmill" as in "that at which Don Quixote tilted".

 

[Lew]

Well I have encountered problems with applets and browsers but so far I
see no real reason to abandon my quest to produce a really effective and
powerful applet that doesn't force the user to leave the browser
environment. Problematic they may be but I still love applets!

I cannot run applets at all from Firefox on my 64b Fedora system. I can run
Web Start apps.

Applets suck.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]

have been replaced by a small dutch boy with a kite, that
had a bucket attached to the bottom by a string.

I meant "windmill" as in "that at which Don Quixote tilted".

Yeah.. I always just pictured him 'tilting' at those style
of Dutch windmills they show in postcards and old movies.
The Dutch are the only ones I know to have used those
style of windmills with the very low sweeping blades.

( I mean trying to 'tilt' at an Australian style windmill would
be ludicrous, the stick would not even reach the height of
the smallish fan blades at the top of their tall tower.)

So ..I always just pictured Don doin' his stuff in
Holland. (shugs) What, was he South American?
Was 'he' a woman? ( I never actually read the story..

 

[Nigel Wade]

I cannot run applets at all from Firefox on my 64b Fedora system. I can run
Web Start apps.

Applets suck.

That's not the fault of the applets. It's the fault of Sun due to their lack of
support for 64bit Linux.

The same is true of web start on other platforms.

 

[Lew]

Yeah.. I always just pictured him 'tilting' at those style
of Dutch windmills they show in postcards and old movies.
The Dutch are the only ones I know to have used those
style of windmills with the very low sweeping blades.

All over Europe in Renaissance times they were like that.

( I mean trying to 'tilt' at an Australian style windmill would

a.k.a. a modern windmill.

be ludicrous, the stick would not even reach the height of
the smallish fan blades at the top of their tall tower.)

So ..I always just pictured Don doin' his stuff in

The Don. His name wasn't "Don", that was his title.

It's similar to "Lord" as in "Lord Byron".

Holland. (shugs) What, was he South American?

Spanish, 16th c.

Was 'he' a woman? ( I never actually read the story..

A knight of the old order who had pain adapting to the modern world, with the
death of chivalry and honor.

<http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/c#a505>

English translation:
<http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/996>
also EText numbers 7094, 5921, 5946 and others.

5921 and 5946 are from an edition illustrated by Gustave Doré.

 

[Lew]

That's not the fault of the applets. It's the fault of Sun due to their lack of
support for 64bit Linux.

The same is true of web start on other platforms.

This is true even when I try to run applets in 32b mode. I run JWS in 32b
mode just fine.

The problem here is due to how Firefox relates to Fedora, not the 64b issue.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Nigel Wade wrote:
...

That's not the fault of the applets.

That is not really the point.

..It's the fault of Sun due to their lack of
support for 64bit Linux.

What about ..
- Sun's lack of support to get Java cleared for the latest XP
security so trusted applets can again acces the local
file-system?
- Sun's lack of support for fixing the bug where some OS/FF
combos. will cause a page reload on 'scroll-up'?
- that applets take 'forever to load on' ..what was at the top
of this thread - IE/XP?
- ...and so on

The real issue here, is Sun's support for applets at all.

I think Sun now consider applets to have been a bad
idea, and would deprecate them if they dared, but their
lack of active support to fix the plethora of open applet
bugs also says 'web start' to me.

The same is true of web start on other platforms.

Huh? What is the 'same' with web start?

It comes on different platforms? It is not suported
on all platforms? It also has bugs/quirks? (I'd say
'yes' to all three of the above. But I am not sure
what you are refering to.)

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200711/1

 

[Nigel Wade]

This is true even when I try to run applets in 32b mode. I run JWS in 32b
mode just fine.

The problem here is due to how Firefox relates to Fedora, not the 64b issue.

Really?

I don't use Fedora, but I have two Sun servers here running 64bit RHEL4. I have
installed 32bit Firefox (direct from Mozilla, not a RH package) and can use the
Sun Java plugin to run applets. The first thing I do with RHEL (and Fedora when
I used to run it) is throw away all the gcj and other non-Sun "java" which RH
bundle. I don't mess with "alternatives", jpackage and all that nonsense as I
don't consider there to be any alternative to the Sun Java platform.

 

[Nigel Wade]

Nigel Wade wrote:
..

That is not really the point.

It probably is in this instance.

What about ..
- Sun's lack of support to get Java cleared for the latest XP
security so trusted applets can again acces the local
file-system?
- Sun's lack of support for fixing the bug where some OS/FF
combos. will cause a page reload on 'scroll-up'?
- that applets take 'forever to load on' ..what was at the top
of this thread - IE/XP?
- ...and so on

What about them?

That is not why the applets won't work in a 64bit web browser on Linux.

The real issue here, is Sun's support for applets at all.

No, the real (and only) issue *here* is why applets won't run in a 64bit
browser.

I think Sun now consider applets to have been a bad
idea, and would deprecate them if they dared, but their
lack of active support to fix the plethora of open applet
bugs also says 'web start' to me.

But not for those users who cannot use Web Start because it's not supported on
their platform.

Huh? What is the 'same' with web start?

It comes on different platforms? It is not suported
on all platforms? It also has bugs/quirks? (I'd say
'yes' to all three of the above. But I am not sure
what you are refering to.)

The lack of support on different platforms. Did I mention anything else?

 

[Lew]

Really?

As best I can tell. I'm actually baffled by it.

I don't use Fedora, but I have two Sun servers here running 64bit RHEL4. I have
installed 32bit Firefox (direct from Mozilla, not a RH package) and can use the
Sun Java plugin to run applets. The first thing I do with RHEL (and Fedora when
I used to run it) is throw away all the gcj and other non-Sun "java" which RH
bundle. I don't mess with "alternatives", jpackage and all that nonsense as I
don't consider there to be any alternative to the Sun Java platform.

I use 'alternatives' because I have 32b Java, 64b Java, Java 5 and an IBM Java
on the same machine. It also helps during upgrades that I can keep one
version back just in case.

I just don't know how to get Firefox to recognize the plugin. I've followed
various HOW-TOs to no avail.

Eh, bien, I just use Windows when I want to view applets.

 

[Knute Johnson]

As best I can tell. I'm actually baffled by it.


I use 'alternatives' because I have 32b Java, 64b Java, Java 5 and an
IBM Java on the same machine. It also helps during upgrades that I can
keep one version back just in case.

I just don't know how to get Firefox to recognize the plugin. I've
followed various HOW-TOs to no avail.

Eh, bien, I just use Windows when I want to view applets.

Lew, are you running F8? Did you do the Xinerama fix? Are you using FF
2.0.0.9?

If all this has been discussed please disregard this post.