stupid problem but client is going bonkers

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Cinnamon Thunder, Mar 13, 2006.

  1. Hi Guys

    Our client requested we fix this but I don't know where to start.

    It's a shop using X-Cart shopping cart system.

    You may view the site @
    http://www.mousemall.co.za/home.php?shopkey=m0us3

    When loading the homepage for instance, the 3 product boxes columns
    (Featured products: im using 3 columns) have different widths.

    For instance the left column is wider than the other 3... then once the
    page has finished loading they jump back to their specified width.

    You don't really see it on a fast connection, but on a modem connection
    its quite visible.

    I know this isn't a MAJOR problem, but the client is jumping up and down
    and I don't know where to turn. The site is going live today sometime.

    Please, any ideas?? Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Xenlab
    Cinnamon Thunder, Mar 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. Cinnamon Thunder

    Andy Dingley Guest

    Cinnamon Thunder wrote:

    > Our client requested we fix this but I don't know where to start.


    Neither do I. Your code's a right old mess and it's really not worth
    trying to look for subtle layout errors in such a rats-nest of 1997
    coding. You chose to code it in this style, your problem to sort it
    out. Sorry.
    Andy Dingley, Mar 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. Cinnamon Thunder wrote:

    > Hi Guys
    >
    > Our client requested we fix this but I don't know where to start.
    >
    > It's a shop using X-Cart shopping cart system.
    >
    > You may view the site @
    > http://www.mousemall.co.za/home.php?shopkey=m0us3
    >
    > When loading the homepage for instance, the 3 product boxes columns
    > (Featured products: im using 3 columns) have different widths.
    >
    > For instance the left column is wider than the other 3... then once the
    > page has finished loading they jump back to their specified width.
    >
    > You don't really see it on a fast connection, but on a modem connection
    > its quite visible.
    >
    > I know this isn't a MAJOR problem, but the client is jumping up and down
    > and I don't know where to turn. The site is going live today sometime.
    >
    > Please, any ideas?? Any help would be appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Xenlab


    I checked and I could not replicate your problem. When I used mozilla
    firefox v1.0.2 the site looks normal. Very slow to finish loading, with
    the center content not appearing until the end. My guess would be, it
    didn't try to render the section until it knew the dimensions of the
    content. To see what I saw...

    http://www.marenger.com/mousemall/mousemall-mozilla-p1.png

    I did experience another problem however. My default browser, konqueror
    totally screwed up the page. With the exception that the majority of your
    hopeful customers won't be using konqueror, it would in my mind be a
    critical issue. I can't say that I have ever seen such a garbled mess, so
    the easiest way to tell you about it is to show you. p1 is the top third
    of the page, p2 is the bottom third.

    http://www.marenger.com/mousemall/mousemall-p1.png
    http://www.marenger.com/mousemall/mousemall-p2.png

    Good luck in working this out.

    Carolyn
    --
    Carolyn Marenger
    Carolyn Marenger, Mar 13, 2006
    #3
  4. Andy Dingley wrote:

    > Cinnamon Thunder wrote:
    >
    >> Our client requested we fix this but I don't know where to start.

    >
    > Neither do I. Your code's a right old mess and it's really not worth
    > trying to look for subtle layout errors in such a rats-nest of 1997
    > coding. You chose to code it in this style, your problem to sort it
    > out. Sorry.


    It was so garbled in my default browser, I didn't even look at the code. I
    just went back, and I agree with you, it is a right old mess.

    Carolyn
    --
    Carolyn Marenger
    Carolyn Marenger, Mar 13, 2006
    #4
  5. Carolyn Marenger, Mar 13, 2006
    #5
  6. On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:10:18 +0100, Cinnamon Thunder
    <> wrote:

    > http://www.mousemall.co.za/home.php?shopkey=m0us3
    >
    > When loading the homepage for instance, the 3 product boxes columns
    > (Featured products: im using 3 columns) have different widths.
    >
    > For instance the left column is wider than the other 3... then once the
    > page has finished loading they jump back to their specified width.


    If you set up the site so that the validator can access, you can use
    <URL:http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mousemall.co.za%2Fhome.php%3Fshopkey%3Dm0us3&charset=iso-8859-1&fbc=1&doctype=HTML+4.01+Transitional&fbd=1&verbose=1>
    for example to see what errors in your markup you should correct first.
    Might do the trick, might not. But then atleast you know it is not the
    coding and can start looking in other directions.

    --
    ______PretLetters:
    | weblog | http://www.pretletters.net/weblog/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://www.pretletters.net/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://www.pretletters.net/html/vliegen.html |
    Barbara de Zoete, Mar 13, 2006
    #6
  7. Cinnamon Thunder

    Jim Higson Guest


    > I checked and I could not replicate your problem. When I used mozilla
    > firefox v1.0.2 the site looks normal. Very slow to finish loading, with
    > the center content not appearing until the end. My guess would be, it
    > didn't try to render the section until it knew the dimensions of the
    > content. To see what I saw...
    >
    > http://www.marenger.com/mousemall/mousemall-mozilla-p1.png
    >
    > I did experience another problem however. My default browser, konqueror
    > totally screwed up the page.


    Funny, Konqueror is fine here (version 3.5.1) on that page, with the
    exception the tabs at the top are slightly out.

    Maybe you have an older version? There've also been quite a few versions of
    Firefox since 1.0.2, mostly security fixes but one major version.

    Back to the OP, the jumping effect is almost certainly because of
    table-based layout. The only cure is to change the order in the HTML so the
    center column gets to the browser first, and then put the other stuff round
    the sides using CSS.

    > With the exception that the majority of your
    > hopeful customers won't be using konqueror, it would in my mind be a
    > critical issue. I can't say that I have ever seen such a garbled mess, so
    > the easiest way to tell you about it is to show you. p1 is the top third
    > of the page, p2 is the bottom third.
    >
    > http://www.marenger.com/mousemall/mousemall-p1.png
    > http://www.marenger.com/mousemall/mousemall-p2.png
    >
    > Good luck in working this out.
    >
    > Carolyn
    Jim Higson, Mar 13, 2006
    #7
  8. Cinnamon Thunder

    Jim Moe Guest

    Cinnamon Thunder wrote:
    >
    > You may view the site @
    > http://www.mousemall.co.za/home.php?shopkey=m0us3
    >
    > When loading the homepage for instance, the 3 product boxes columns
    > (Featured products: im using 3 columns) have different widths.
    >
    > For instance the left column is wider than the other 3... then once the
    > page has finished loading they jump back to their specified width.
    >

    As noted by others your code is a mess. Ugh. Tables for layout. Spacer
    GIFs. Empty columns for spacing. Sheesh!
    You could try using a <colgroup> to set the initial widths of the columns.

    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
    Jim Moe, Mar 13, 2006
    #8
  9. Cinnamon Thunder

    dorayme Guest

    In article <dv3gel$d98$>,
    Cinnamon Thunder <> wrote:

    > Hi Guys
    >
    > Our client requested we fix this but I don't know where to start.
    >
    > It's a shop using X-Cart shopping cart system.
    >
    > You may view the site @
    > http://www.mousemall.co.za/home.php?shopkey=m0us3
    >
    > When loading the homepage for instance, the 3 product boxes columns
    > (Featured products: im using 3 columns) have different widths.
    >
    > For instance the left column is wider than the other 3... then once the
    > page has finished loading they jump back to their specified width.
    >
    > You don't really see it on a fast connection, but on a modem connection
    > its quite visible.
    >
    > I know this isn't a MAJOR problem, but the client is jumping up and down
    > and I don't know where to turn. The site is going live today sometime.
    >
    > Please, any ideas?? Any help would be appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Xenlab


    No trouble on Safari (Mac X browser) on dial up.

    I hope that not too many of you folk are tearing their hair out
    at the fact that this impossible dog's breakfast markup results
    in a look that is nicer than the majority of better coded sites...

    Is that the sound of suppressed gnashing of teeth...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Mar 13, 2006
    #9
  10. Cinnamon Thunder

    Jim Moe Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    >
    > I hope that not too many of you folk are tearing their hair out
    > at the fact that this impossible dog's breakfast markup results
    > in a look that is nicer than the majority of better coded sites...
    >

    No one has ever said (well, maybe someone has) that beautiful, useful
    websites cannot be done with tables. Obviously there are many that succeed
    wonderfully.
    Table-based layouts tend to be rigid, and hard to maintain. The code
    usually ends up looking like an "impossible dog's breakfast." (Personal
    experience.)
    And so on.
    When web designer's are finally re-trained to better use HTML and CSS as
    intended, we'll start seeing sites that are at least as good as those
    created with legacy coding.

    --
    jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
    (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
    Jim Moe, Mar 14, 2006
    #10
  11. Cinnamon Thunder

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Jim Moe <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > >
    > > I hope that not too many of you folk are tearing their hair out
    > > at the fact that this impossible dog's breakfast markup results
    > > in a look that is nicer than the majority of better coded sites...
    > >

    > No one has ever said (well, maybe someone has) that beautiful, useful
    > websites cannot be done with tables. Obviously there are many that succeed
    > wonderfully.


    No disagreement here.

    > When web designer's are finally re-trained to better use HTML and CSS as
    > intended, we'll start seeing sites that are at least as good as those
    > created with legacy coding.



    Maybe. I hope so. The best eyes have come from the print/paper
    industry. Tables, because of their power to mimic via their
    splicing abilities, are naturally more congenial to such folk.
    Yes, (so the attitude might go) bugger bandwidth, bugger
    fluidity, bugger maintenance, bugger those silly little PDAs and
    sorry to folks with visual impairments, but my, what counts is
    how it looks on a 17" colour screen at 1024 x 768 in millions of
    colours...

    But things are changing and good eyes belong also to folk coming
    thru the ranks as webdesigners from the bottom up...

    Perhaps the image of a giant smoking steamroller running over
    alt.html is a little overwrought... but, just look out there!

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Mar 14, 2006
    #11
  12. Cinnamon Thunder

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Jim Moe
    <> declared in alt.html:

    > When web designer's are finally re-trained to better use HTML and CSS as
    > intended, we'll start seeing sites that are at least as good as those
    > created with legacy coding.


    No doubt you (plural, not just Jim) are aware of
    http://csszengarden.com/ - the code is overly convoluted due to the
    nature of the site, but still an interesting example of what CSS is
    capable of.

    --
    Mark Parnell

    Now implementing http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
    Mark Parnell, Mar 14, 2006
    #12
  13. Cinnamon Thunder

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Mark Parnell <> wrote:

    > No doubt you (plural, not just Jim) are aware of
    > http://csszengarden.com/ - the code is overly convoluted due to the
    > nature of the site, but still an interesting example of what CSS is
    > capable of.


    No doubt at all....

    Listen, Mark, nothing can illustrate better the cheeky and
    dangerous raw talent of those upstarts, the no-good, low-down,
    tricky Safricans, than the other day... I hardly need to remind
    you anymore...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Mar 14, 2006
    #13
  14. Cinnamon Thunder

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme
    <> declared in alt.html:

    > Listen, Mark, nothing can illustrate better the cheeky and
    > dangerous raw talent of those upstarts, the no-good, low-down,
    > tricky Safricans, than the other day... I hardly need to remind
    > you anymore...


    SHHHHHHHH!

    --
    Mark Parnell

    Now implementing http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
    Mark Parnell, Mar 14, 2006
    #14
  15. Cinnamon Thunder

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:44:27 +1100, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    >what counts is
    >how it looks on a 17" colour screen at 1024 x 768 in millions of
    >colours...


    Not much looks worse than one of those sites.

    5 years on, now that I'm running at 1600x1200 and the original site
    cowers in a corner and refuses to get any bigger.
    Andy Dingley, Mar 15, 2006
    #15
  16. Cinnamon Thunder

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Andy Dingley <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:44:27 +1100, dorayme
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >what counts is
    > >how it looks on a 17" colour screen at 1024 x 768 in millions of
    > >colours...

    >
    > Not much looks worse than one of those sites.
    >
    > 5 years on, now that I'm running at 1600x1200 and the original site
    > cowers in a corner and refuses to get any bigger.


    it looks bad the way you quote me (without context)... I know I
    have no reputation to uphold but still...

    :)

    [me too, a 1600 x 1200... plus really much more as I run more
    than one screen (all "as one" rather than mirrored). ... as it
    happens I have one 17" at 1024 x 1200 in the line up and it is
    quite a reasonable thing to use for web pages. It is a more
    "accurate" experience than looking at a site in a corner of a big
    monitor. Or should I say, an easier one, not requiring a suitable
    change in text size to reflect liklihoods...]

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Mar 15, 2006
    #16
  17. Cinnamon Thunder

    JDS Guest

    On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:27:10 -0500, Carolyn Marenger wrote:

    > With the exception that the majority of your
    > hopeful customers won't be using konqueror, it would in my mind be a
    > critical issue.


    Except that Konqueror provides a very good representation of how a web
    page looks in Safari on Mac OSX. So saying "Konqueror", one is basically
    also saying "Mac users" (well, a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the
    idea).

    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
    JDS, Mar 15, 2006
    #17
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