Suggested improvements for IDLE (non-official)

Discussion in 'Python' started by r, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. r

    r Guest

    I actually like the IDLE, but it could use a few improvements. If
    anybody else has suggestions by all means post them.

    1.) The text widget and the prompt(>>>) should be separated. Trying to
    write a conditional in the interactive IDLE is a real PITA. Not to
    mention if you copy the working code snippet to the IDLE editor window
    the indention is 8 spaces instead 4 AND you've got that prompt(>>>)
    stuck in there. I have a solution for the problem though.( I hope you
    all are using fixed-width font)

    frm |<---------------------text widget ----------------->
    >>> |
    >>> |if this == 1:

    .... | if that == 2:
    .... | #do
    .... | elif that ==3:
    .... | #do
    .... | else:
    .... | pass
    >>> |
    >>> |x = 10


    Basically you have a Listbox on the left for the prompt and a Text on
    the right. Disable the Listbox highlight and key press events and now
    we have a very friendly interactive IDLE! No more prompt hijacking
    your snippets, and no more 8 space indention!

    2.) When you press MMB and there is a highlighted selection in the
    text it gets pasted over and over again @ the insertion cursor (gives
    me the red @ss!)

    Anybody want to comment or add suggestions?
    r, Jan 14, 2009
    #1
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  2. r

    James Stroud Guest

    r wrote:
    > I actually like the IDLE, but it could use a few improvements. If
    > anybody else has suggestions by all means post them.
    >
    > 1.) The text widget and the prompt(>>>) should be separated. Trying to
    > write a conditional in the interactive IDLE is a real PITA. Not to
    > mention if you copy the working code snippet to the IDLE editor window
    > the indention is 8 spaces instead 4 AND you've got that prompt(>>>)
    > stuck in there. I have a solution for the problem though.( I hope you
    > all are using fixed-width font)
    >
    > frm |<---------------------text widget ----------------->
    >>>> |
    >>>> |if this == 1:

    > ... | if that == 2:
    > ... | #do
    > ... | elif that ==3:
    > ... | #do
    > ... | else:
    > ... | pass
    >>>> |
    >>>> |x = 10


    Brilliantly put. This is probably the main reason that IDLE is not worth
    using. Good luck on getting this changed. Best is to find yourself
    another IDE. Try vim.

    > Basically you have a Listbox on the left for the prompt and a Text on
    > the right. Disable the Listbox highlight and key press events and now
    > we have a very friendly interactive IDLE! No more prompt hijacking
    > your snippets, and no more 8 space indention!


    Excellent suggestions are a dime a dozen. Finding people to implement
    them is slightly harder. Getting said suggestions accepted into the
    python distribution is nearly impossible. Accept what you are given and
    try vim.

    If you really want a cool IDE, try Leo. It had some bugs about 4 years
    ago when I tried it, but I'm sure they have been worked out now. I'm
    addicted to vim, but if I wasn't, I'd probably be using Leo.

    James
    James Stroud, Jan 14, 2009
    #2
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  3. r

    r Guest

    Hello James,
    I actually want to trash IDLE and start over. I would be willing to do
    a complete re-write. I have already made a template GUI that works
    (early stages). I am wondering if anyone else might be interested in
    taking this on with me? IMO IDLE is full of fluff where it should not
    be, and thin where it should be fat. Trim off the fat and lean this
    puppy up! I like that in ActiveState's version you can delete as much
    text as you want. IDLE won't allow it.

    I want a better setup for extensions, and complete control of mouse
    and key bindings for the user. We need to clean the dust off and
    polish IDLE up a bit. If not, i will just write up a simplified
    version it for myself. I just thought someone out there may be
    thinking like i am.
    r, Jan 14, 2009
    #3
  4. r

    Terry Reedy Guest

    James Stroud wrote:
    > r wrote:
    >> I actually like the IDLE, but it could use a few improvements. If
    >> anybody else has suggestions by all means post them.
    >>
    >> 1.) The text widget and the prompt(>>>) should be separated. Trying to
    >> write a conditional in the interactive IDLE is a real PITA. Not to
    >> mention if you copy the working code snippet to the IDLE editor window
    >> the indention is 8 spaces instead 4 AND you've got that prompt(>>>)
    >> stuck in there. I have a solution for the problem though.( I hope you
    >> all are using fixed-width font)
    >>
    >> frm |<---------------------text widget ----------------->
    >>>>> |
    >>>>> |if this == 1:

    >> ... | if that == 2:
    >> ... | #do
    >> ... | elif that ==3:
    >> ... | #do
    >> ... | else:
    >> ... | pass
    >>>>> |
    >>>>> |x = 10

    >
    > Brilliantly put. This is probably the main reason that IDLE is not worth
    > using. Good luck on getting this changed. Best is to find yourself
    > another IDE. Try vim.
    >
    >> Basically you have a Listbox on the left for the prompt and a Text on
    >> the right. Disable the Listbox highlight and key press events and now
    >> we have a very friendly interactive IDLE! No more prompt hijacking
    >> your snippets, and no more 8 space indention!

    >
    > Excellent suggestions are a dime a dozen. Finding people to implement
    > them is slightly harder. Getting said suggestions accepted into the
    > python distribution is nearly impossible. Accept what you are given and
    > try vim.


    My doc suggestions get accepted regularly, sometimes within hours.

    I think the 'main' IDLE maintainer is no longer active. I think someone
    who would do more than fix critical bugs might be welcome.
    Terry Reedy, Jan 14, 2009
    #4
  5. r

    r Guest

    On Jan 14, 4:43 pm, Terry Reedy <> wrote:
    [snip]
    > I think the 'main' IDLE maintainer is no longer active.  I think someone
    > who would do more than fix critical bugs might be welcome.


    Hello Terry,
    That's what i was beginning to think. I am not quite ready (as far as
    my skills are concerned) to put out something that would be as useful
    to many people. I could hack together something real quick for myself.
    This is why i am looking for like-minded people who would be
    interested in this. I have the foresight and willpower at this point
    to contribute something meaningful to the Python community -- to give
    back.

    OFF-TOPIC:(but related)
    What is the state of Tkinter at this point. Is an active effort under
    way to port TK 8.5 into Python? Tkinter and IDLE are very important to
    Python, but i understand there are much more important areas where the
    GURU's are concentrating. Should there be a calling for "others" to
    get involved here? I would like to help out.
    Thanks
    r, Jan 14, 2009
    #5
  6. r

    Terry Reedy Guest

    r wrote:
    > On Jan 14, 4:43 pm, Terry Reedy <> wrote:
    > [snip]
    >> I think the 'main' IDLE maintainer is no longer active. I think someone
    >> who would do more than fix critical bugs might be welcome.

    >
    > Hello Terry,
    > That's what i was beginning to think. I am not quite ready (as far as
    > my skills are concerned) to put out something that would be as useful
    > to many people. I could hack together something real quick for myself.
    > This is why i am looking for like-minded people who would be
    > interested in this. I have the foresight and willpower at this point
    > to contribute something meaningful to the Python community -- to give
    > back.


    If you are willing and able to channel your obvious enthusiasm and
    energy into incremental improvements, you could make meaningful
    contributions within weeks and months. If you go to
    http://bugs.python.org/issue?@template=search&status=1
    and select IDLE in the 'Components' field and hit 'Search',
    you will get a list of (at the moment) 66 open issues. Some are bug
    reports, some feature requests. Some have patches waiting for review
    and some not. There may be some (near?) duplicate and obsolete items
    that could be closed after review. Pick one issue and help resolve it.

    Reviewing exiting patches would be definitely helpful. For instance, I
    would particularly like to see
    http://bugs.python.org/issue2704
    Patch to make PyShell behave more like a Terminal interface
    tested and applied. It was posted last April and revised in June.

    Should you decide to do this, and wish further input from me, let me
    know, on or off list.

    > OFF-TOPIC:(but related)
    > What is the state of Tkinter at this point. Is an active effort under
    > way to port TK 8.5 into Python? Tkinter and IDLE are very important to
    > Python, but i understand there are much more important areas where the
    > GURU's are concentrating. Should there be a calling for "others" to
    > get involved here? I would like to help out.


    Running a search from the same page for '8.5' in the 'All text' box gave
    no hits. I would tend to expect that 8.5 upgrades to tkinter would be
    welcome at some point, but anyone actively ready to work on it could
    open a tracker issue or inquire on py-dev first.

    Terry Jan Reedy
    Terry Reedy, Jan 15, 2009
    #6
  7. r

    Terry Reedy Guest

    Tim H wrote:
    > r wrote:
    >> On Jan 14, 4:43 pm, Terry Reedy <> wrote:


    >> OFF-TOPIC:(but related)
    >> What is the state of Tkinter at this point. Is an active effort under
    >> way to port TK 8.5 into Python? Tkinter and IDLE are very important to
    >> Python, but i understand there are much more important areas where the
    >> GURU's are concentrating. Should there be a calling for "others" to
    >> get involved here? I would like to help out.
    >> Thanks

    >
    > Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but "About Idle" in Python
    > 2.6.1 (win32) says "Tk version: 8.5"


    Same in 3.0. I check .../python30/tcl/ and it has tck8/ tcl8.5, tix8.4,
    tk8.5 subdirs.
    Terry Reedy, Jan 16, 2009
    #7
  8. r

    r Guest

    On Jan 16, 1:55 am, Terry Reedy <> wrote:
    > > Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but "About Idle" in Python
    > > 2.6.1 (win32) says "Tk version: 8.5"



    As to Tk, i was referring to Themes. I may have the versions mixed up
    but the newest TK supports themes and i would love to get that support
    into Tkinter, This will help shine up python a bit.
    r, Jan 24, 2009
    #8
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