Suggestion for HTML Editor to get past the crappy IDE one

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by Lloyd Sheen, Jan 25, 2004.

  1. Lloyd Sheen

    Lloyd Sheen Guest

    I am out of my mind fighting with the IDE HTML editor. Beyond the fact that
    reformatting the text is brain dead (and I am not just talking about the
    switching from design to HTML). I am putting in a filter to provide a
    gradient background.

    Insert the code into the HTML and switch to design. Voila it shows. Back
    to HTML and back to design. It is gone. The worst thing is that I can see
    no change to the BODY tag. This is beyond reason. Other pages work
    (sometimes).

    This IDE does not seem to understand that users can be past the IE 3.0
    stage. Does MS not provide its developers with up to date tools? It would
    seem that QA does not get them.

    Lloyd Sheen
    Lloyd Sheen, Jan 25, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    news:nUUQb.19242$:
    > Insert the code into the HTML and switch to design. Voila it shows.
    > Back to HTML and back to design. It is gone. The worst thing is that I
    > can see no change to the BODY tag. This is beyond reason. Other pages
    > work (sometimes).


    This is "FrontPage". :)

    FrontPAge used to be REALLY nasty about this type of stuff. MS has worked
    really hard to get rid of this type of stuff.

    It might be that the code that you are entering is not completely valid and
    is confusing the parser. However the designer is showing it so...


    --
    Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    "Programming is an art form that fights back"


    ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu, Jan 25, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Lloyd Sheen

    Lloyd Sheen Guest

    The code is good. I have compared other pages and it works there until I
    make any change, even to text. The IDE seems to have some view that it
    wants and the designer be dammed.

    I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the IDE is to be
    taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers. I keep hearing
    wait until the next release. If this is to be MS mantra for the next set of
    products then the MS haters will have a case.

    Lloyd Sheen


    "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns947BEB74BEA35cpub@127.0.0.1...
    > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    > news:nUUQb.19242$:
    > > Insert the code into the HTML and switch to design. Voila it shows.
    > > Back to HTML and back to design. It is gone. The worst thing is that I
    > > can see no change to the BODY tag. This is beyond reason. Other pages
    > > work (sometimes).

    >
    > This is "FrontPage". :)
    >
    > FrontPAge used to be REALLY nasty about this type of stuff. MS has worked
    > really hard to get rid of this type of stuff.
    >
    > It might be that the code that you are entering is not completely valid

    and
    > is confusing the parser. However the designer is showing it so...
    >
    >
    > --
    > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    >
    >
    > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    >
    Lloyd Sheen, Jan 25, 2004
    #3
  4. Lloyd Sheen

    Lloyd Sheen Guest

    When I open the code in Dreamweaver it looks correct. For an expensive
    product VS2003 is a real dud in HTML design. I had not done this before but
    now I can see why people do not want to use VS as the HTML designer.

    Notepad would be better, at least it does not make assumptions about what
    the user wants.

    Lloyd Sheen


    "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in message
    news:ysVQb.19981$...
    > The code is good. I have compared other pages and it works there until I
    > make any change, even to text. The IDE seems to have some view that it
    > wants and the designer be dammed.
    >
    > I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the IDE is to be
    > taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers. I keep hearing
    > wait until the next release. If this is to be MS mantra for the next set

    of
    > products then the MS haters will have a case.
    >
    > Lloyd Sheen
    >
    >
    > "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns947BEB74BEA35cpub@127.0.0.1...
    > > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    > > news:nUUQb.19242$:
    > > > Insert the code into the HTML and switch to design. Voila it shows.
    > > > Back to HTML and back to design. It is gone. The worst thing is that

    I
    > > > can see no change to the BODY tag. This is beyond reason. Other

    pages
    > > > work (sometimes).

    > >
    > > This is "FrontPage". :)
    > >
    > > FrontPAge used to be REALLY nasty about this type of stuff. MS has

    worked
    > > really hard to get rid of this type of stuff.
    > >
    > > It might be that the code that you are entering is not completely valid

    > and
    > > is confusing the parser. However the designer is showing it so...
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    > > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    > >
    > >
    > > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    > >

    >
    >
    Lloyd Sheen, Jan 25, 2004
    #4
  5. "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    news:ysVQb.19981$:
    > I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the IDE is to
    > be taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers. I keep


    For the record - I did not say that. :)

    > hearing wait until the next release. If this is to be MS mantra for the
    > next set of products then the MS haters will have a case.


    Let's just say I have feet on both side of the fence.

    VS.net is a HUGE improvement over VS though. To be honest, prior to VS.net,
    the IDE was just unusuable. When coming from Delphi (or even VB) it was like
    stepping back in time 20 years.

    Im not defending the issues you are seeing, but trying to tell you that when
    it comes to this type of stuff its taking MS a long time to get their heads
    wrapped around it. VS.net IMO is really a "1.1" IDE. For a 1.1, its pretty
    darn good.



    --
    Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    "Programming is an art form that fights back"


    ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu, Jan 25, 2004
    #5
  6. Lloyd Sheen

    Lloyd Sheen Guest

    Not to be argumentative but this IDE should have some of the underpinnings
    of the IDE's that preceded it. Someone said that the HTML designer came
    from FrontPage. Well that product is quite old and should have the kinks
    worked out.

    I cannot figure out why anyone when QA'ing this product would accept the
    formatting that happens (and I have turned off what I can in the Options).
    I just moved a DIV and all contained controls were put on one line. Since
    the designer does not allow for the adding of all needed information at
    times you must go to the HTML view. I see absolutely no reason to reformat.
    Especially after I just spent 20 mins making the format what I wanted.

    MS this is the worst IDE I have ever seen and I have used VB since 1.0 and
    VC since it was C 1.52.

    Lloyd Sheen

    "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns947BEF166F90Acpub@127.0.0.1...
    > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    > news:ysVQb.19981$:
    > > I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the IDE is to
    > > be taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers. I keep

    >
    > For the record - I did not say that. :)
    >
    > > hearing wait until the next release. If this is to be MS mantra for the
    > > next set of products then the MS haters will have a case.

    >
    > Let's just say I have feet on both side of the fence.
    >
    > VS.net is a HUGE improvement over VS though. To be honest, prior to

    VS.net,
    > the IDE was just unusuable. When coming from Delphi (or even VB) it was

    like
    > stepping back in time 20 years.
    >
    > Im not defending the issues you are seeing, but trying to tell you that

    when
    > it comes to this type of stuff its taking MS a long time to get their

    heads
    > wrapped around it. VS.net IMO is really a "1.1" IDE. For a 1.1, its pretty
    > darn good.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    >
    >
    > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    >
    Lloyd Sheen, Jan 25, 2004
    #6
  7. Lloyd Sheen

    Lloyd Sheen Guest

    And even more. At present the designer shows the gradient background. Run
    the app and it wants to recompile the page. When it shows the code is
    changed, the gradient is gone and another strike for this terrible piece of
    crap that MS has presented developers with.

    This IDE constantly looses buttons, Intelisence, etc. I spend as much time
    stopping and starting the IDE just to get past these problems.

    Lloyd Sheen

    "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in message
    news:COVQb.20263$...
    > Not to be argumentative but this IDE should have some of the underpinnings
    > of the IDE's that preceded it. Someone said that the HTML designer came
    > from FrontPage. Well that product is quite old and should have the kinks
    > worked out.
    >
    > I cannot figure out why anyone when QA'ing this product would accept the
    > formatting that happens (and I have turned off what I can in the Options).
    > I just moved a DIV and all contained controls were put on one line. Since
    > the designer does not allow for the adding of all needed information at
    > times you must go to the HTML view. I see absolutely no reason to

    reformat.
    > Especially after I just spent 20 mins making the format what I wanted.
    >
    > MS this is the worst IDE I have ever seen and I have used VB since 1.0 and
    > VC since it was C 1.52.
    >
    > Lloyd Sheen
    >
    > "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns947BEF166F90Acpub@127.0.0.1...
    > > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    > > news:ysVQb.19981$:
    > > > I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the IDE is to
    > > > be taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers. I keep

    > >
    > > For the record - I did not say that. :)
    > >
    > > > hearing wait until the next release. If this is to be MS mantra for

    the
    > > > next set of products then the MS haters will have a case.

    > >
    > > Let's just say I have feet on both side of the fence.
    > >
    > > VS.net is a HUGE improvement over VS though. To be honest, prior to

    > VS.net,
    > > the IDE was just unusuable. When coming from Delphi (or even VB) it was

    > like
    > > stepping back in time 20 years.
    > >
    > > Im not defending the issues you are seeing, but trying to tell you that

    > when
    > > it comes to this type of stuff its taking MS a long time to get their

    > heads
    > > wrapped around it. VS.net IMO is really a "1.1" IDE. For a 1.1, its

    pretty
    > > darn good.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    > > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    > >
    > >
    > > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    > >

    >
    >
    Lloyd Sheen, Jan 25, 2004
    #7
  8. Lloyd Sheen

    Lloyd Sheen Guest

    Just In Case Someone want to see the problem.

    Do the following:

    1. Create a new web form
    2. Go to HTML
    3. Locate the Body tag
    4. Insert after MS_POSITIONING="GridLayout" the following:

    style="FILTER:
    progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Gradient(endColorstr='#663333',
    startColorstr='#66CCFF', gradientType='0')"

    5. Go to Design mode and see the gradient
    6. Go to HTML and then back to design and it is gone but the code is still
    there.

    Go figure.
    Lloyd Sheen, Jan 25, 2004
    #8
  9. Lloyd Sheen

    Hermit Dave Guest

    dont know mate.. think you seem to have a lot of problems. could be the
    installation
    Have been using vs.net 2003 for 6 months now without any issues. Though i
    use it for programming as such and not for html designing.
    BTW VS.NET has no links with frontpage. front page is a totally different
    product. VS.NET is an ide which also lets you do html.
    And dont compare it with dreamweaver. you are comparing all the html
    editors with VS when it could be
    a. you not doing it right
    b. you are doing it right but you installation is messed up.

    --
    Regards,
    HD
    Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in message
    news:OSVQb.20314$...
    > And even more. At present the designer shows the gradient background.
    > Run
    > the app and it wants to recompile the page. When it shows the code is
    > changed, the gradient is gone and another strike for this terrible piece
    > of
    > crap that MS has presented developers with.
    >
    > This IDE constantly looses buttons, Intelisence, etc. I spend as much
    > time
    > stopping and starting the IDE just to get past these problems.
    >
    > Lloyd Sheen
    >
    > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    > message
    > news:COVQb.20263$...
    >> Not to be argumentative but this IDE should have some of the
    >> underpinnings
    >> of the IDE's that preceded it. Someone said that the HTML designer came
    >> from FrontPage. Well that product is quite old and should have the kinks
    >> worked out.
    >>
    >> I cannot figure out why anyone when QA'ing this product would accept the
    >> formatting that happens (and I have turned off what I can in the
    >> Options).
    >> I just moved a DIV and all contained controls were put on one line.
    >> Since
    >> the designer does not allow for the adding of all needed information at
    >> times you must go to the HTML view. I see absolutely no reason to

    > reformat.
    >> Especially after I just spent 20 mins making the format what I wanted.
    >>
    >> MS this is the worst IDE I have ever seen and I have used VB since 1.0
    >> and
    >> VC since it was C 1.52.
    >>
    >> Lloyd Sheen
    >>
    >> "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Xns947BEF166F90Acpub@127.0.0.1...
    >> > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    >> > news:ysVQb.19981$:
    >> > > I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the IDE is
    >> > > to
    >> > > be taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers. I keep
    >> >
    >> > For the record - I did not say that. :)
    >> >
    >> > > hearing wait until the next release. If this is to be MS mantra for

    > the
    >> > > next set of products then the MS haters will have a case.
    >> >
    >> > Let's just say I have feet on both side of the fence.
    >> >
    >> > VS.net is a HUGE improvement over VS though. To be honest, prior to

    >> VS.net,
    >> > the IDE was just unusuable. When coming from Delphi (or even VB) it was

    >> like
    >> > stepping back in time 20 years.
    >> >
    >> > Im not defending the issues you are seeing, but trying to tell you that

    >> when
    >> > it comes to this type of stuff its taking MS a long time to get their

    >> heads
    >> > wrapped around it. VS.net IMO is really a "1.1" IDE. For a 1.1, its

    > pretty
    >> > darn good.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    >> > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    Hermit Dave, Jan 25, 2004
    #9
  10. Lloyd Sheen

    Hermit Dave Guest

    Re: Just In Case Someone want to see the problem.

    just copy pasted your code as you said.
    and switched between the designer and html views a couple of times
    and it still works
    if can see the code in html and i can see the gradient in designer

    --
    Regards,
    HD
    Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:3WQb.20454$...
    > Do the following:
    >
    > 1. Create a new web form
    > 2. Go to HTML
    > 3. Locate the Body tag
    > 4. Insert after MS_POSITIONING="GridLayout" the following:
    >
    > style="FILTER:
    > progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Gradient(endColorstr='#663333',
    > startColorstr='#66CCFF', gradientType='0')"
    >
    > 5. Go to Design mode and see the gradient
    > 6. Go to HTML and then back to design and it is gone but the code is
    > still
    > there.
    >
    > Go figure.
    >
    >
    Hermit Dave, Jan 25, 2004
    #10
  11. Lloyd Sheen

    Lloyd Sheen Guest

    It seems to have to do with the reformatting. If you can get the filter to
    show on one line you can switch back and forth. I just wish I could totally
    turn off the reformatting. It is irritating and poorly done.

    To paraphrase what most developers tell others in these forums when people
    ask about changing the way things look - "let the user decide". MS has not
    done this in the HTML designer and we the developer pay for it.

    Lloyd Sheen
    "Hermit Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > dont know mate.. think you seem to have a lot of problems. could be the
    > installation
    > Have been using vs.net 2003 for 6 months now without any issues. Though i
    > use it for programming as such and not for html designing.
    > BTW VS.NET has no links with frontpage. front page is a totally different
    > product. VS.NET is an ide which also lets you do html.
    > And dont compare it with dreamweaver. you are comparing all the html
    > editors with VS when it could be
    > a. you not doing it right
    > b. you are doing it right but you installation is messed up.
    >
    > --
    > Regards,
    > HD
    > Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in

    message
    > news:OSVQb.20314$...
    > > And even more. At present the designer shows the gradient background.
    > > Run
    > > the app and it wants to recompile the page. When it shows the code is
    > > changed, the gradient is gone and another strike for this terrible piece
    > > of
    > > crap that MS has presented developers with.
    > >
    > > This IDE constantly looses buttons, Intelisence, etc. I spend as much
    > > time
    > > stopping and starting the IDE just to get past these problems.
    > >
    > > Lloyd Sheen
    > >
    > > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    > > message
    > > news:COVQb.20263$...
    > >> Not to be argumentative but this IDE should have some of the
    > >> underpinnings
    > >> of the IDE's that preceded it. Someone said that the HTML designer

    came
    > >> from FrontPage. Well that product is quite old and should have the

    kinks
    > >> worked out.
    > >>
    > >> I cannot figure out why anyone when QA'ing this product would accept

    the
    > >> formatting that happens (and I have turned off what I can in the
    > >> Options).
    > >> I just moved a DIV and all contained controls were put on one line.
    > >> Since
    > >> the designer does not allow for the adding of all needed information at
    > >> times you must go to the HTML view. I see absolutely no reason to

    > > reformat.
    > >> Especially after I just spent 20 mins making the format what I wanted.
    > >>
    > >> MS this is the worst IDE I have ever seen and I have used VB since 1.0
    > >> and
    > >> VC since it was C 1.52.
    > >>
    > >> Lloyd Sheen
    > >>
    > >> "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    > >> news:Xns947BEF166F90Acpub@127.0.0.1...
    > >> > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    > >> > news:ysVQb.19981$:
    > >> > > I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the IDE is
    > >> > > to
    > >> > > be taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers. I

    keep
    > >> >
    > >> > For the record - I did not say that. :)
    > >> >
    > >> > > hearing wait until the next release. If this is to be MS mantra

    for
    > > the
    > >> > > next set of products then the MS haters will have a case.
    > >> >
    > >> > Let's just say I have feet on both side of the fence.
    > >> >
    > >> > VS.net is a HUGE improvement over VS though. To be honest, prior to
    > >> VS.net,
    > >> > the IDE was just unusuable. When coming from Delphi (or even VB) it

    was
    > >> like
    > >> > stepping back in time 20 years.
    > >> >
    > >> > Im not defending the issues you are seeing, but trying to tell you

    that
    > >> when
    > >> > it comes to this type of stuff its taking MS a long time to get their
    > >> heads
    > >> > wrapped around it. VS.net IMO is really a "1.1" IDE. For a 1.1, its

    > > pretty
    > >> > darn good.
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > --
    > >> > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    > >> > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Lloyd Sheen, Jan 25, 2004
    #11
  12. Lloyd Sheen

    Hermit Dave Guest

    as i told you you line of code worked fine... no issues with reformatting...
    you sure you didnt mess about with some settings ?

    --
    Regards,
    HD
    Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in message
    news:UfXQb.21387$...
    > It seems to have to do with the reformatting. If you can get the filter
    > to
    > show on one line you can switch back and forth. I just wish I could
    > totally
    > turn off the reformatting. It is irritating and poorly done.
    >
    > To paraphrase what most developers tell others in these forums when people
    > ask about changing the way things look - "let the user decide". MS has
    > not
    > done this in the HTML designer and we the developer pay for it.
    >
    > Lloyd Sheen
    > "Hermit Dave" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> dont know mate.. think you seem to have a lot of problems. could be the
    >> installation
    >> Have been using vs.net 2003 for 6 months now without any issues. Though i
    >> use it for programming as such and not for html designing.
    >> BTW VS.NET has no links with frontpage. front page is a totally different
    >> product. VS.NET is an ide which also lets you do html.
    >> And dont compare it with dreamweaver. you are comparing all the html
    >> editors with VS when it could be
    >> a. you not doing it right
    >> b. you are doing it right but you installation is messed up.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Regards,
    >> HD
    >> Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    >> "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in

    > message
    >> news:OSVQb.20314$...
    >> > And even more. At present the designer shows the gradient background.
    >> > Run
    >> > the app and it wants to recompile the page. When it shows the code is
    >> > changed, the gradient is gone and another strike for this terrible
    >> > piece
    >> > of
    >> > crap that MS has presented developers with.
    >> >
    >> > This IDE constantly looses buttons, Intelisence, etc. I spend as much
    >> > time
    >> > stopping and starting the IDE just to get past these problems.
    >> >
    >> > Lloyd Sheen
    >> >
    >> > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    >> > message
    >> > news:COVQb.20263$...
    >> >> Not to be argumentative but this IDE should have some of the
    >> >> underpinnings
    >> >> of the IDE's that preceded it. Someone said that the HTML designer

    > came
    >> >> from FrontPage. Well that product is quite old and should have the

    > kinks
    >> >> worked out.
    >> >>
    >> >> I cannot figure out why anyone when QA'ing this product would accept

    > the
    >> >> formatting that happens (and I have turned off what I can in the
    >> >> Options).
    >> >> I just moved a DIV and all contained controls were put on one line.
    >> >> Since
    >> >> the designer does not allow for the adding of all needed information
    >> >> at
    >> >> times you must go to the HTML view. I see absolutely no reason to
    >> > reformat.
    >> >> Especially after I just spent 20 mins making the format what I wanted.
    >> >>
    >> >> MS this is the worst IDE I have ever seen and I have used VB since 1.0
    >> >> and
    >> >> VC since it was C 1.52.
    >> >>
    >> >> Lloyd Sheen
    >> >>
    >> >> "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    >> >> news:Xns947BEF166F90Acpub@127.0.0.1...
    >> >> > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    >> >> > news:ysVQb.19981$:
    >> >> > > I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the IDE
    >> >> > > is
    >> >> > > to
    >> >> > > be taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers. I

    > keep
    >> >> >
    >> >> > For the record - I did not say that. :)
    >> >> >
    >> >> > > hearing wait until the next release. If this is to be MS mantra

    > for
    >> > the
    >> >> > > next set of products then the MS haters will have a case.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Let's just say I have feet on both side of the fence.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > VS.net is a HUGE improvement over VS though. To be honest, prior to
    >> >> VS.net,
    >> >> > the IDE was just unusuable. When coming from Delphi (or even VB) it

    > was
    >> >> like
    >> >> > stepping back in time 20 years.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Im not defending the issues you are seeing, but trying to tell you

    > that
    >> >> when
    >> >> > it comes to this type of stuff its taking MS a long time to get
    >> >> > their
    >> >> heads
    >> >> > wrapped around it. VS.net IMO is really a "1.1" IDE. For a 1.1, its
    >> > pretty
    >> >> > darn good.
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> > --
    >> >> > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    >> >> > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    >> >> >
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    Hermit Dave, Jan 25, 2004
    #12
  13. Lloyd Sheen

    Lloyd Sheen Guest

    As I said, add the code switch views and after a couple of switches the
    gradient is gone.


    "Hermit Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > as i told you you line of code worked fine... no issues with

    reformatting...
    > you sure you didnt mess about with some settings ?
    >
    > --
    > Regards,
    > HD
    > Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in

    message
    > news:UfXQb.21387$...
    > > It seems to have to do with the reformatting. If you can get the filter
    > > to
    > > show on one line you can switch back and forth. I just wish I could
    > > totally
    > > turn off the reformatting. It is irritating and poorly done.
    > >
    > > To paraphrase what most developers tell others in these forums when

    people
    > > ask about changing the way things look - "let the user decide". MS has
    > > not
    > > done this in the HTML designer and we the developer pay for it.
    > >
    > > Lloyd Sheen
    > > "Hermit Dave" <> wrote in

    message
    > > news:...
    > >> dont know mate.. think you seem to have a lot of problems. could be the
    > >> installation
    > >> Have been using vs.net 2003 for 6 months now without any issues. Though

    i
    > >> use it for programming as such and not for html designing.
    > >> BTW VS.NET has no links with frontpage. front page is a totally

    different
    > >> product. VS.NET is an ide which also lets you do html.
    > >> And dont compare it with dreamweaver. you are comparing all the html
    > >> editors with VS when it could be
    > >> a. you not doing it right
    > >> b. you are doing it right but you installation is messed up.
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> Regards,
    > >> HD
    > >> Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    > >> "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in

    > > message
    > >> news:OSVQb.20314$...
    > >> > And even more. At present the designer shows the gradient

    background.
    > >> > Run
    > >> > the app and it wants to recompile the page. When it shows the code

    is
    > >> > changed, the gradient is gone and another strike for this terrible
    > >> > piece
    > >> > of
    > >> > crap that MS has presented developers with.
    > >> >
    > >> > This IDE constantly looses buttons, Intelisence, etc. I spend as

    much
    > >> > time
    > >> > stopping and starting the IDE just to get past these problems.
    > >> >
    > >> > Lloyd Sheen
    > >> >
    > >> > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    > >> > message
    > >> > news:COVQb.20263$...
    > >> >> Not to be argumentative but this IDE should have some of the
    > >> >> underpinnings
    > >> >> of the IDE's that preceded it. Someone said that the HTML designer

    > > came
    > >> >> from FrontPage. Well that product is quite old and should have the

    > > kinks
    > >> >> worked out.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> I cannot figure out why anyone when QA'ing this product would accept

    > > the
    > >> >> formatting that happens (and I have turned off what I can in the
    > >> >> Options).
    > >> >> I just moved a DIV and all contained controls were put on one line.
    > >> >> Since
    > >> >> the designer does not allow for the adding of all needed information
    > >> >> at
    > >> >> times you must go to the HTML view. I see absolutely no reason to
    > >> > reformat.
    > >> >> Especially after I just spent 20 mins making the format what I

    wanted.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> MS this is the worst IDE I have ever seen and I have used VB since

    1.0
    > >> >> and
    > >> >> VC since it was C 1.52.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Lloyd Sheen
    > >> >>
    > >> >> "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    > >> >> news:Xns947BEF166F90Acpub@127.0.0.1...
    > >> >> > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote

    in
    > >> >> >

    news:ysVQb.19981$:
    > >> >> > > I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the IDE
    > >> >> > > is
    > >> >> > > to
    > >> >> > > be taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers. I

    > > keep
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > For the record - I did not say that. :)
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > > hearing wait until the next release. If this is to be MS mantra

    > > for
    > >> > the
    > >> >> > > next set of products then the MS haters will have a case.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Let's just say I have feet on both side of the fence.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > VS.net is a HUGE improvement over VS though. To be honest, prior

    to
    > >> >> VS.net,
    > >> >> > the IDE was just unusuable. When coming from Delphi (or even VB)

    it
    > > was
    > >> >> like
    > >> >> > stepping back in time 20 years.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Im not defending the issues you are seeing, but trying to tell you

    > > that
    > >> >> when
    > >> >> > it comes to this type of stuff its taking MS a long time to get
    > >> >> > their
    > >> >> heads
    > >> >> > wrapped around it. VS.net IMO is really a "1.1" IDE. For a 1.1,

    its
    > >> > pretty
    > >> >> > darn good.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > --
    > >> >> > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    > >> >> > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    > >> >> >
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Lloyd Sheen, Jan 25, 2004
    #13
  14. Lloyd Sheen

    Hermit Dave Guest

    swtiched 20 times with a couple of saves
    so far so good
    added a line save
    switched 10 times
    so far so good
    restart the application
    so far so good
    make another change
    switched 10 times... still good
    so it cannot be visual studio cause i am also using vs.net and this is
    indeed VS.NET 2003. btw... define couple... more than 40 times is good
    enough.

    --
    Regards,
    HD
    Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in message
    news:ayXQb.21512$...
    > As I said, add the code switch views and after a couple of switches the
    > gradient is gone.
    >
    >
    > "Hermit Dave" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> as i told you you line of code worked fine... no issues with

    > reformatting...
    >> you sure you didnt mess about with some settings ?
    >>
    >> --
    >> Regards,
    >> HD
    >> Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    >> "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in

    > message
    >> news:UfXQb.21387$...
    >> > It seems to have to do with the reformatting. If you can get the
    >> > filter
    >> > to
    >> > show on one line you can switch back and forth. I just wish I could
    >> > totally
    >> > turn off the reformatting. It is irritating and poorly done.
    >> >
    >> > To paraphrase what most developers tell others in these forums when

    > people
    >> > ask about changing the way things look - "let the user decide". MS has
    >> > not
    >> > done this in the HTML designer and we the developer pay for it.
    >> >
    >> > Lloyd Sheen
    >> > "Hermit Dave" <> wrote in

    > message
    >> > news:...
    >> >> dont know mate.. think you seem to have a lot of problems. could be
    >> >> the
    >> >> installation
    >> >> Have been using vs.net 2003 for 6 months now without any issues.
    >> >> Though

    > i
    >> >> use it for programming as such and not for html designing.
    >> >> BTW VS.NET has no links with frontpage. front page is a totally

    > different
    >> >> product. VS.NET is an ide which also lets you do html.
    >> >> And dont compare it with dreamweaver. you are comparing all the html
    >> >> editors with VS when it could be
    >> >> a. you not doing it right
    >> >> b. you are doing it right but you installation is messed up.
    >> >>
    >> >> --
    >> >> Regards,
    >> >> HD
    >> >> Once a Geek.... Always a Geek
    >> >> "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    >> > message
    >> >> news:OSVQb.20314$...
    >> >> > And even more. At present the designer shows the gradient

    > background.
    >> >> > Run
    >> >> > the app and it wants to recompile the page. When it shows the code

    > is
    >> >> > changed, the gradient is gone and another strike for this terrible
    >> >> > piece
    >> >> > of
    >> >> > crap that MS has presented developers with.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > This IDE constantly looses buttons, Intelisence, etc. I spend as

    > much
    >> >> > time
    >> >> > stopping and starting the IDE just to get past these problems.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Lloyd Sheen
    >> >> >
    >> >> > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote in
    >> >> > message
    >> >> > news:COVQb.20263$...
    >> >> >> Not to be argumentative but this IDE should have some of the
    >> >> >> underpinnings
    >> >> >> of the IDE's that preceded it. Someone said that the HTML designer
    >> > came
    >> >> >> from FrontPage. Well that product is quite old and should have the
    >> > kinks
    >> >> >> worked out.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> I cannot figure out why anyone when QA'ing this product would
    >> >> >> accept
    >> > the
    >> >> >> formatting that happens (and I have turned off what I can in the
    >> >> >> Options).
    >> >> >> I just moved a DIV and all contained controls were put on one line.
    >> >> >> Since
    >> >> >> the designer does not allow for the adding of all needed
    >> >> >> information
    >> >> >> at
    >> >> >> times you must go to the HTML view. I see absolutely no reason to
    >> >> > reformat.
    >> >> >> Especially after I just spent 20 mins making the format what I

    > wanted.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> MS this is the worst IDE I have ever seen and I have used VB since

    > 1.0
    >> >> >> and
    >> >> >> VC since it was C 1.52.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> Lloyd Sheen
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> "Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu" <> wrote in message
    >> >> >> news:Xns947BEF166F90Acpub@127.0.0.1...
    >> >> >> > "Lloyd Sheen" <> wrote

    > in
    >> >> >> >

    > news:ysVQb.19981$:
    >> >> >> > > I have tried the same in FrontPage with no problems. If the
    >> >> >> > > IDE
    >> >> >> > > is
    >> >> >> > > to
    >> >> >> > > be taken seriously then it should help not hinder developers.
    >> >> >> > > I
    >> > keep
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> > For the record - I did not say that. :)
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> > > hearing wait until the next release. If this is to be MS
    >> >> >> > > mantra
    >> > for
    >> >> > the
    >> >> >> > > next set of products then the MS haters will have a case.
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> > Let's just say I have feet on both side of the fence.
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> > VS.net is a HUGE improvement over VS though. To be honest, prior

    > to
    >> >> >> VS.net,
    >> >> >> > the IDE was just unusuable. When coming from Delphi (or even VB)

    > it
    >> > was
    >> >> >> like
    >> >> >> > stepping back in time 20 years.
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> > Im not defending the issues you are seeing, but trying to tell
    >> >> >> > you
    >> > that
    >> >> >> when
    >> >> >> > it comes to this type of stuff its taking MS a long time to get
    >> >> >> > their
    >> >> >> heads
    >> >> >> > wrapped around it. VS.net IMO is really a "1.1" IDE. For a 1.1,

    > its
    >> >> > pretty
    >> >> >> > darn good.
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> > --
    >> >> >> > Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
    >> >> >> > "Programming is an art form that fights back"
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >> > ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    >> >> >> >
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    Hermit Dave, Jan 25, 2004
    #14
    1. Advertising

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