Sun / PhySci / MindProd - Java testing applets

Discussion in 'Java' started by Andrew Thompson, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. Sub: Sun / PhySci / MindProd - Java testing applets

    A recent discussion around these parts alerted me to
    the Sun applet that tests a user's Java in the browser.
    The posts that followed prompted me to add a comparison
    of the features of each, to my own testing page..
    <http://www.physci.org/pc/property.jsp#compare>

    I am hoping that Sun can take a few moments[1] to correct
    the glaring errors in their page. Then I can remove the
    slagging[2] I give it as a result of that.

    [1] Yes, I did 'tell them' directly, if only through
    a web feedback form.
    [2] <http://www.physci.org/pc/property.jsp#valid>

    <muses>
    ...I hope this isn't seen as an 'advocacy' thing.
    </muses>

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info
    Bigfoot's Choice
     
    Andrew Thompson, Jul 14, 2005
    #1
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  2. Andrew Thompson

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:45:56 GMT, Andrew Thompson
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >
    >A recent discussion around these parts alerted me to
    >the Sun applet that tests a user's Java in the browser.
    >The posts that followed prompted me to add a comparison
    >of the features of each, to my own testing page..
    ><http://www.physci.org/pc/property.jsp#compare>


    Wassup is both an applet and an application. If you download it, you
    can run it locally.

    The code will run under very old JVMs, but you would need to recompile
    it yourself. I will have to find an old compiler or play with targets
    to see if I can get an older version up there.

    I am presuming you are just teasing when as a feature you list a "red
    bar".

    I don't know what you mean by "links all three".

    Grouping properties is a mixed blessing. If you know what the
    categories mean, it can speed finding what you want. Otherwise they
    slow you down. A simple alphabetical list is easier.

    I like the way you did your layout with a table. When I wrote Wassup I
    was trying to make it compatible with as old JVMs as possible so I did
    not use any Swing features, and probably no ArrayLists either.


    On my todo list is a way of reducing the visual clutter for signed
    applets. I display so much crap to deal with what to do if signing
    goes wrong, and all that stuff about having java installed and the
    recommended browser. It needs to be displayed only when relevant.


    --
    Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm

    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
     
    Roedy Green, Jul 14, 2005
    #2
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  3. On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:23:06 GMT, Roedy Green wrote:

    > On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:45:56 GMT, Andrew Thompson
    > <> wrote or quoted :
    >>
    >>A recent discussion around these parts alerted me to
    >>the Sun applet that tests a user's Java in the browser.
    >>The posts that followed prompted me to add a comparison
    >>of the features of each, to my own testing page..
    >><http://www.physci.org/pc/property.jsp#compare>

    >
    > Wassup is both an applet and an application. If you download it, you
    > can run it locally.


    Yes, I mention that in the features table. Maybe the page should
    make it clear that both yours and mine can be run as applications,
    since the *desktop* Java properties can be different from the ones
    in the browser (particularly java.vendor and java.version).

    To my knowledge - Sun has no 'quick and easy' application
    that will test the Java properties.

    > The code will run under very old JVMs, but you would need to recompile
    > it yourself. I will have to find an old compiler or play with targets
    > to see if I can get an older version up there.


    Odd. I thought I'd checked your applet using a 1.1 VM
    and seen it work!

    I could give you some tips on compiling for 1.1 by email
    if your interested, it would be nice for your applet/application
    to be runnable in 1.1 VM's 'as delivered'.

    I am not sure about signing code for the 1.1 VM though,
    especially the MSVM. Mickey Segal is the expert on that.

    > I am presuming you are just teasing when as a feature you list a "red
    > bar".


    Only a little. The thing is, it occured to me to
    ask "what happens if the user's java is completely
    busted?". What do they see at either the Mindprod
    page or Sun? It might be difficult for users to
    identify what "the applet says", simply because they
    cannot identify a non existent applet.

    With my 'red box' I can ask..
    "What do you see in the *red* box."
    The user should, at the very *least*, see the red box
    and some text inside it.

    Of course, if your page were to give some really *obvious*
    visual indication of where the applet is *supposed* to be -
    I am quite happy to change that feature name to 'Obvious Applet'
    ...or something - and give your page 'the tick' on that one.

    If Sun fixes their horribly broken page, the rest of the text
    may also make the applet (and it's possible complete absence)
    more obvious. I will be looking forward to seeing all three
    with some obvious indication of the applet location,
    then I will probably not mention that 'feature' at all.

    > I don't know what you mean by "links all three".


    I link to yours and Sun's.

    Mindprod used to link to mine, but I could no
    longer find the link. :-(

    > Grouping properties is a mixed blessing. If you know what the
    > categories mean, it can speed finding what you want.


    I am referring to arbitrary groups, like..

    "What's your Java make and version?"
    <http://www.physci.org/pc/property.jsp?prop=java.version+java.vendor>

    "What sorts of properties are ..withheld from.. an untrusted applet"
    <http://www.physci.org/pc/property.jsp?prop=java.class.path+sun.boot.classpath+file.encoding+user.home>

    "...allowed for..."
    <http://www.physci.org/pc/property.jsp?prop=os.name+java.class.version+path.separator>

    >Otherwise they
    > slow you down. A simple alphabetical list is easier.


    I'll consider adding 'Alphabetical' to the 'features table',
    ...maybe.

    > I like the way you did your layout with a table.


    It is a ..gridlayout of panels, AFAIR.

    >..When I wrote Wassup I
    > was trying to make it compatible with as old JVMs as possible so I did
    > not use any Swing features, and probably no ArrayLists either.
    >
    > On my todo list is a way of reducing the visual clutter for signed
    > applets. I display so much crap to deal with what to do if signing
    > goes wrong, and all that stuff about having java installed and the
    > recommended browser. It needs to be displayed only when relevant.


    Yes.. your signed applet gains a lot of advantages over both
    mine and the one at Sun. But having to accept signed code to
    gain those advantages is a (ever so slight) bother.

    [ Though I have been meaning to also provide a *signed*
    version of mine that is perhaps more along the lines of
    yours in that it calls for an enumeration of the properties.
    I would still retain my unsigned, 'light' version though,
    it has proved quite handy. ]

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info
    When You See The Robot, Drink!
     
    Andrew Thompson, Jul 14, 2005
    #3
  4. Andrew Thompson

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:36:29 GMT, Andrew Thompson
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >Odd. I thought I'd checked your applet using a 1.1 VM
    >and seen it work!


    It would have at one point, but I flipped to 1.5 thinking it was just
    a matter of setting the target to some previous version, but the only
    target supported is 1.5.

    I have taught my stomper to generate BAT files to select either java
    1.4 or 1.5 with the a target 1.1 ... 1.5. I am in the process now of
    splitting up my common code into three pieces depending on how old a
    JVM it works with.

    Within a day or two I will post a version, hopefully with a 1.1
    target. I may have to find an old 1.1 jdk to get it though.

    That seems to me the only way to be utterly sure the code will work on
    an old JVM.

    --
    Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm

    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
     
    Roedy Green, Jul 15, 2005
    #4
  5. On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 04:18:10 GMT, Roedy Green wrote:

    > It would have at one point, but I flipped to 1.5 thinking it was just
    > a matter of setting the target to some previous version, but the only
    > target supported is 1.5.


    No. I thought I saw a thread here the other day that
    was hinting at that, but I had time neither to read it
    fully nor investigate it.

    But just last night I had cause to compile a simple
    applet to test it on 1.1 (the MSVM specifically) after
    some wrenching around of options, I happened upon..

    javac -target 1.1 -source 1.3 *.java

    [ This is using Java 1.5 SDK ]

    I do not know what the frig '-source 1.3' is supposed to
    add to the mix (yeah, yeah 'check the docs' yada, yada..
    too busy), but that combination of parameters compiled a
    small source to load an image in an applet so that it
    ran just fine* on the MSVM.

    * there are some quirks to compiling without using the
    -bootclasspath option, but you can *often* get fully 1.1
    compatible code without it. But..

    > Within a day or two I will post a version, hopefully with a 1.1
    > target. I may have to find an old 1.1 jdk to get it though.


    ...right. you are aware of that (slaps self)

    > That seems to me the only way to be utterly sure
    > the code will work on an old JVM.


    Yep. I am constantly harping that at noobs., OTOH,
    failing access to a 1.1 VM, you can always try it
    on the off chance!

    As it happens I not only have the 1.1.4 MSVM, but also
    a copy of the Symantec 1.1.5 VM (NN 4.78) available for
    testing applets. [ ..and a version of Sun's 1.1.8,
    but I cannot figure how to run that in any browser I
    have access to! ]

    ...Let me know if I have anything that might be handy in
    your endeavours.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    physci.org 1point1c.org javasaver.com lensescapes.com athompson.info
    Bigfoot's Choice
     
    Andrew Thompson, Jul 15, 2005
    #5
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