Survey or poll on Internet dislikes

Discussion in 'HTML' started by arbpen, May 1, 2006.

  1. arbpen

    arbpen Guest

    I am getting ready to make a new interface for the company's web site,
    <http://atlas.nextblock.com/files/>. It's a mess, markup and server
    side. I know that, hence, getting ready to make a new template.

    My boss likes pop-ups because, for her, it's simple to click the little
    x and you're back on the page you were on - no back button broken. My
    boss also likes animated ads. In making the new template, I want to
    keep away from that.

    The reason I am posting is because I would like to give my boss some
    kind of hard proof that people really don't like pop-ups, hard numbers
    from a survey or poll. My saying "but the are x-trillion pop-up blocker
    programs" does not work. Please understand, I am not asking this group
    to post likes and dislikes - I need opinions from Joe Average Internet
    User. Short of setting up a focus group, does anyone have links to
    such information?

    Sorry to be posting from Google Groups, but I'm at work and have no
    nntp access.

    TIA

    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    arbpen, May 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. arbpen

    Jose Guest

    > My boss likes pop-ups because

    Does she know that she can get a popup any time she wants by doing a
    trick-click? (shift-click for IE, Ctrl-click for Netscape, etc)

    > My boss also likes animated ads. [...] I would like to give
    > my boss some kind of hard proof that people really don't like pop-ups


    Put animated ads in all your Emails to her.

    Alas, I have no links to focus group results, but you can probably
    generate your own by asking around the office.

    Jose
    --
    The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
    for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
     
    Jose, May 1, 2006
    #2
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  3. arbpen wrote:

    > I am getting ready to make a new interface for the company's web site,
    > <http://atlas.nextblock.com/files/>. It's a mess, markup and server
    > side. I know that, hence, getting ready to make a new template.
    >
    > My boss likes pop-ups because, for her, it's simple to click the little
    > x and you're back on the page you were on - no back button broken. My
    > boss also likes animated ads. In making the new template, I want to
    > keep away from that.
    >
    > The reason I am posting is because I would like to give my boss some
    > kind of hard proof that people really don't like pop-ups, hard numbers
    > from a survey or poll. My saying "but the are x-trillion pop-up blocker
    > programs" does not work. Please understand, I am not asking this group
    > to post likes and dislikes - I need opinions from Joe Average Internet
    > User. Short of setting up a focus group, does anyone have links to
    > such information?
    >
    > Sorry to be posting from Google Groups, but I'm at work and have no
    > nntp access.
    >
    > TIA


    I dont know of any actual surveys of this type of thing, but you could
    probably work towards the simple fact that there *are* popup blockers...
    this would indicate that there is a market out there for popup blockers,
    and therefore there are users out there that have specifically requests
    *not* to have popups. You could pose that same argument regarding the
    animated ads, as there are browser options that inhibit animations on
    animated gifs ... not sure about flash ads though.

    --
    jog with a friend.
     
    Disco Octopus, May 1, 2006
    #3
  4. arbpen

    Toby Inkster Guest

    arbpen wrote:

    > The reason I am posting is because I would like to give my boss some
    > kind of hard proof that people really don't like pop-ups, hard numbers
    > from a survey or poll. My saying "but the are x-trillion pop-up blocker
    > programs" does not work.


    When she's away from her desk, install a pop-up blocker and switch it to
    its most agressive setting.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, May 1, 2006
    #4
  5. On Tue, 2 May 2006, Disco Octopus wrote:

    > I dont know of any actual surveys of this type of thing,


    You could try
    http://www.useit.com/alertbox/designmistakes.html

    I'd quote specifically:

    * In particular, don't open pages in new windows

    and

    * Pop-ups are a mistake in their own right.

    See also his earlier page on the same general theme
    http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20021223.html

    > but you could
    > probably work towards the simple fact that there *are* popup blockers...
    > this would indicate that there is a market out there for popup blockers,
    > and therefore there are users out there that have specifically requests
    > *not* to have popups. You could pose that same argument regarding the
    > animated ads, as there are browser options that inhibit animations on
    > animated gifs ... not sure about flash ads though.


    FlashBlock (moz/firefox extension). Works for me ;-)

    See also the cited designmistakes.

    There are times when one would *like* to pay attention to an animated
    presentation, voluntarily and at one's own convenience. But when it's
    fed-in unsolicited, it's nothing better than a distracting nuisance,
    preventing the user from concentrating on the information that they
    are looking for (and without which, they're unlikely to buy the
    product...). Strange how many companies seem determined to shoot
    themselves in the foot in this way (and kind-of preverse, really, that
    we users go to such trouble to save them from themselves, instead of
    just leaving their site and resolving never to return.)

    regards
     
    Alan J. Flavell, May 1, 2006
    #5
  6. arbpen

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, "Alan J. Flavell"
    <> vouchsafed:

    > There are times when one would *like* to pay attention to an animated
    > presentation, voluntarily and at one's own convenience. But when it's
    > fed-in unsolicited, it's nothing better than a distracting nuisance,
    > preventing the user from concentrating on the information that they
    > are looking for (and without which, they're unlikely to buy the
    > product...). Strange how many companies seem determined to shoot
    > themselves in the foot in this way (and kind-of preverse, really, that
    > we users go to such trouble to save them from themselves, instead of
    > just leaving their site and resolving never to return.)


    I was at some movie image/poster site just last night (via Google.) Stuff
    flashing and blinking and moving all over the place... Not only did this
    make me _anxious_ to leave, but downloading the junk also greatly inhibited
    the downloading of the content, which made me want to leave even more. I
    guess I lasted about 30 seconds - maybe.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 2, 2006
    #6
  7. arbpen

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, Toby Inkster <usenet200604
    @tobyinkster.co.uk> vouchsafed:

    > arbpen wrote:
    >
    >> The reason I am posting is because I would like to give my boss some
    >> kind of hard proof that people really don't like pop-ups, hard numbers
    >> from a survey or poll. My saying "but the are x-trillion pop-up blocker
    >> programs" does not work.

    >
    > When she's away from her desk, install a pop-up blocker and switch it to
    > its most agressive setting.


    Better yet, conceal an electric cattle prod in her seat cushion and connect
    it to a port activated by js popups.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 2, 2006
    #7
  8. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Neredbojias
    <http://www.neredbojias.com/fliam.php?cat=alt.html> writing in
    news:Xns97B6D17C599A6httpwwwneredbojiasco@208.49.80.251:

    > To further the education of mankind, Toby Inkster <usenet200604
    > @tobyinkster.co.uk> vouchsafed:
    >
    >> arbpen wrote:
    >>
    >>> The reason I am posting is because I would like to give my boss some
    >>> kind of hard proof that people really don't like pop-ups, hard
    >>> numbers from a survey or poll. My saying "but the are x-trillion
    >>> pop-up blocker programs" does not work.

    >>
    >> When she's away from her desk, install a pop-up blocker and switch it
    >> to its most agressive setting.

    >
    > Better yet, conceal an electric cattle prod in her seat cushion and
    > connect it to a port activated by js popups.
    >
    >


    I'm not going to write what I'm tempted to write, Clark, suffice to say
    that I'm laughing with you, not at you.

    What's even scarier is I did a little survey with the interns who are
    working for us, and they were saying how much they like the popups. They
    are in their teens, so anything that moves is kewl.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    Please respond to the group so others can share
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
     
    Adrienne Boswell, May 2, 2006
    #8
  9. arbpen wrote:
    > I am getting ready to make a new interface...
    > ...The reason I am posting is because I would like to give my boss some
    > kind of hard proof that people really don't like pop-ups, hard numbers
    > from a survey or poll.


    Interesting, not a singe bit of hard proof... Just 3 personal
    anecdotes, and an embarrassingly bland website...

    Personally, I find a popup calendar, or popup form to be very
    convenient. That is because I am requesting them. I find the popup
    ads on porn sites very annoying because I did not request them. (And
    you have the added annoyance of dealing with them with a single hand.)

    Just an opinion based on talking to those around me, but I do not
    believe people find popups to be bad. I think they find "unrequested"
    popups bad. There is a HUGE difference.
     
    Travis Newbury, May 2, 2006
    #9
  10. arbpen

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, Adrienne Boswell <>
    vouchsafed:

    >>>> The reason I am posting is because I would like to give my boss
    >>>> some kind of hard proof that people really don't like pop-ups, hard
    >>>> numbers from a survey or poll. My saying "but the are x-trillion
    >>>> pop-up blocker programs" does not work.
    >>>
    >>> When she's away from her desk, install a pop-up blocker and switch
    >>> it to its most agressive setting.

    >>
    >> Better yet, conceal an electric cattle prod in her seat cushion and
    >> connect it to a port activated by js popups.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I'm not going to write what I'm tempted to write, Clark, suffice to
    > say that I'm laughing with you, not at you.


    :)

    > What's even scarier is I did a little survey with the interns who are
    > working for us, and they were saying how much they like the popups.
    > They are in their teens, so anything that moves is kewl.


    I remember starting out the same way, and I was well past my teens. But
    after using (-or trying to) my pages and others having the "bells and
    whistles" that just seemed so great at first, I learned they got old real
    quick. The best page is one which looks attractive but primarily presents
    the content in as facile a manner as possible. Bells and whistles not only
    detract from this but make such elegance impossible.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 2, 2006
    #10
  11. arbpen

    JDS Guest

    On Mon, 01 May 2006 13:31:49 -0700, arbpen wrote:

    > My boss likes pop-ups because, for her, it's simple to click the little
    > x and you're back on the page you were on - no back button broken. My
    > boss also likes animated ads. In making the new template, I want to
    > keep away from that.


    What are the popups being used for?

    If they are part of an interface for a web application, that is one thing.
    If they just contain unrequested ads and spam, that is quite another.

    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
     
    JDS, May 2, 2006
    #11
  12. arbpen

    Jose Guest

    > Just an opinion based on talking to those around me, but I do not
    > believe people find popups to be bad. I think they find "unrequested"
    > popups bad. There is a HUGE difference.


    Yes, that is the crux of it. However, since you can trick-click to make
    any link open in a new window, and it's usually hard to tell whether a
    regular click will generate a popup or replace the existing window, the
    use of popups makes the user experience less predictable. That is a Bad
    Thing.

    I too find some popups to be convenient, but I find myself wondering, as
    I over expectantly over a link, whether I will get a well designed
    little calendar popup, a new browser window with all the bells, a reuse
    of the existing window (meaning I have to go back), or some other web trick.

    I recently got burned by one on a help desk. Firstly, they all seem to
    use postage stamp sized chat boxes inside an acre of window, and then
    the support person sends a link, which when clicked could use the acre
    of window above the chat area, a popup, a new window, a download, or any
    number of things, and somehow these links disable trick-clicking. So I
    got one which was a popup without any controls, menus, or handles (so no
    back button). I forgot why but the next problem was that the chat
    window was closed (it might have been my mistake) but since the popup
    was open, the browser was still active. However I couldn't go back or
    forward, and I couldn't reconnect with the chat person, and to get back
    in the tech support queue was another half hour.

    Have that happen a few times and you will see the evil of uncoontrolled
    popups. And all popups are uncontrolled unless commanded by a trick-click.

    Jose
    --
    The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
    for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
     
    Jose, May 2, 2006
    #12
  13. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed JDS <>
    writing in news:p:

    > On Mon, 01 May 2006 13:31:49 -0700, arbpen wrote:
    >
    >> My boss likes pop-ups because, for her, it's simple to click the
    >> little x and you're back on the page you were on - no back button
    >> broken. My boss also likes animated ads. In making the new
    >> template, I want to keep away from that.

    >
    > What are the popups being used for?
    >
    > If they are part of an interface for a web application, that is one
    > thing. If they just contain unrequested ads and spam, that is quite
    > another.
    >


    http://atlas.nextblock.com is a directory of stores, restarants and
    services. The store descriptions open in little pop-up windows, and a
    lot of hrefs use the target attribute, or BASE element. External links
    always open in new windows.

    I agree with what others have said about calendar widgets, and I would
    not want to get rid of those. It's the ones that are unnecessary, the
    external links, etc, that drive me nuts.

    Maybe this is because I use mouse gestures, and therefore rarely look up
    to see if the back button in available. It just gesture until I realize
    something is wrong, look up, and realize I've been gesturing for no
    reason.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    Please respond to the group so others can share
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
     
    Adrienne Boswell, May 2, 2006
    #13

  14. >> My boss likes pop-ups because, for her, it's simple to click the
    >> little
    >> x and you're back on the page you were on - no back button broken.
    >> My
    >> boss also likes animated ads. In making the new template, I want
    >> to
    >> keep away from that.

    >
    > What are the popups being used for?
    >
    > If they are part of an interface for a web application, that is one
    > thing.
    > If they just contain unrequested ads and spam, that is quite
    > another.


    a popup with ads and spam? A female boss? What site might that be?
     
    Gernot Frisch, May 2, 2006
    #14
  15. arbpen

    arbpen Guest

    Gernot Frisch wote:
    > >> My boss likes pop-ups because, for her, it's simple to click the
    > >> little
    > >> x and you're back on the page you were on - no back button broken.
    > >> My
    > >> boss also likes animated ads. In making the new template, I want
    > >> to
    > >> keep away from that.

    > >
    > > What are the popups being used for?
    > >
    > > If they are part of an interface for a web application, that is one
    > > thing.
    > > If they just contain unrequested ads and spam, that is quite
    > > another.

    >
    > a popup with ads and spam? A female boss? What site might that be?


    There are ads (small but they move), and there is no spam. Yes, a
    female boss, one of the most empowered, smart, successful women I know.
    The site is <http://atlas.nextblock.com/files/>. I am in the process
    of designing a new interface (CSS, no tables,HTML Strict), to get rid
    of the bloat that makes the current site soooo slooooww to load.
     
    arbpen, May 2, 2006
    #15
  16. arbpen

    Brian Cryer Guest

    "arbpen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I am getting ready to make a new interface for the company's web site,
    > <http://atlas.nextblock.com/files/>. It's a mess, markup and server
    > side. I know that, hence, getting ready to make a new template.
    >
    > My boss likes pop-ups because, for her, it's simple to click the little
    > x and you're back on the page you were on - no back button broken. My
    > boss also likes animated ads. In making the new template, I want to
    > keep away from that.
    >
    > The reason I am posting is because I would like to give my boss some
    > kind of hard proof that people really don't like pop-ups, hard numbers
    > from a survey or poll. My saying "but the are x-trillion pop-up blocker
    > programs" does not work. Please understand, I am not asking this group
    > to post likes and dislikes - I need opinions from Joe Average Internet
    > User. Short of setting up a focus group, does anyone have links to
    > such information?


    If you need your website to be accessible (alka W3C website Accessibility)
    then pop-ups are a definite no-no:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/, checkpoint 10.1 "Until user
    agents allow users to turn off spawned windows, do not cause pop-ups or
    other windows to appear and do not change the current window without
    informing the user. [Priority 2] "

    Hope it helps.
    --
    Brian Cryer
    www.cryer.co.uk/brian
     
    Brian Cryer, May 3, 2006
    #16
  17. arbpen

    dorayme Guest

    In article <Xns97B6D17C599A6httpwwwneredbojiasco@208.49.80.251>,
    Neredbojias <http://www.neredbojias.com/fliam.php?cat=alt.html>
    wrote:

    > Better yet, conceal an electric cattle prod in her seat cushion and connect
    > it to a port activated by js popups.


    There you go again, that preoccupation with the lower half...
    Don't worry now, won't be long before you are cured. Officer
    White is soon to come. He has been busy and, naturally enough,
    has had to deal with the worse cases first.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 4, 2006
    #17
  18. arbpen

    dorayme Guest

    In article <Xns97B6DEF3BDF7Darbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121>,
    Adrienne Boswell <> wrote:

    > What's even scarier is I did a little survey with the interns who are
    > working for us, and they were saying how much they like the popups. They
    > are in their teens, so anything that moves is kewl.


    Indeed. But not just teenagers.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 4, 2006
    #18
  19. arbpen

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Travis Newbury" <> wrote:

    > Personally, I find a popup calendar, or popup form to be very
    > convenient. That is because I am requesting them. I find the popup
    > ads on porn sites very annoying because I did not request them.


    > There is a HUGE difference...


    I agree a lot. I have spent the better part of a day ridding a
    section of a website of some ("requested") js pop ups in favour
    of normal links. Advantages, no js, easier to maintain in future
    (they are trickier beasts in the file system and require extra
    code and fiddlesome ' and " and ... you know...). But I am now
    thinking that it does not look or feel as nice as it did! The
    information was extra stuff, visual details of individual
    products, also the pop up window was a cleaner and simpler "fit"
    and helped the viewers not to lose their place... I might forget
    about it now and throw away half a day's work and restore the old
    pop ups. Damn! Decisions, decisions...

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 4, 2006
    #19
  20. arbpen

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, dorayme
    <> vouchsafed:

    > In article <Xns97B6D17C599A6httpwwwneredbojiasco@208.49.80.251>,
    > Neredbojias <http://www.neredbojias.com/fliam.php?cat=alt.html>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Better yet, conceal an electric cattle prod in her seat cushion and
    >> connect it to a port activated by js popups.

    >
    > There you go again, that preoccupation with the lower half...
    > Don't worry now, won't be long before you are cured. Officer
    > White is soon to come. He has been busy and, naturally enough,
    > has had to deal with the worse cases first.


    Well, it's a relief to know I'm not among the worst, anyway. Um, actually,
    it's sort of a disappointment, too, though. I always try to excel, and
    attaining to the best of the worst would at least be an achievement of some
    kind.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 4, 2006
    #20
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