SVG

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Shall I have to use XML to create images by SVG or can I use it also in
Html?

http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/intro.html

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

"Luigi Donatello Asero" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet

Can I create images by SVG only if I make use of XML or can I do it also
in
Html?

http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/intro.html

 

[brucie]

in post: <

Shall I have to use XML to create images by SVG

if you like but i would go with a graphics program that can spew out SVG
until you get to grips with it, much easier.

or can I use it also in Html?

do you mean can you stick it in html pages? - yes.

but support is icky poo so its only practical to use it in a controlled
environment.

if anyone is interested heres how to enable support for opera:
http://my.opera.com/community/articles/browsers/enablesvg/

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

in post: <

if you like but i would go with a graphics program that can spew out SVG
until you get to grips with it, much easier.


do you mean can you stick it in html pages? - yes.

but support is icky poo so its only practical to use it in a controlled
environment.

if anyone is interested heres how to enable support for opera:
http://my.opera.com/community/articles/browsers/enablesvg/

Does SVG substitute WAP for mobile phones?
http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVGMobile12-20040629/
How do I allow users to print each photo which is contained on a page
separately
(checkpoint 1.2)?

 

[brucie]

in post: <

Does SVG substitute WAP for mobile phones?

i have no idea what you're asking here

How do I allow users to print each photo which is contained on a page
separately

if their browser doesn't already give them that ability just supply a
link to the image file so they can handle it however they want.

(checkpoint 1.2)?

checkpoint 1.2 of what?

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

in post: <

i have no idea what you're asking here

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/
As far as I understand it is no substitute for old mobile phones, but a new
system for 3G mobile phones.

if their browser doesn't already give them that ability just supply a
link to the image file so they can handle it however they want.

checkpoint 1.2 of what?

http://ncam.wgbh.org/cdrom/guideline/guideline1.html
Also if I check up the page
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenhetitalien3.html
at Bobby.
http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bo...talien3.html&output=Submit&gl=wcag1-aaa&test=
I get one question mark on the left of the large photo and I suppose it has
to do with printing.

 

[brucie]

in post: <

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/
As far as I understand it is no substitute for old mobile phones, but a new
system for 3G mobile phones.

SVG - Scalable Vector GRAPHICS

http://ncam.wgbh.org/cdrom/guideline/guideline1.html

of course, how silly of me not to know that was the text you were

Also if I check up the page at Bobby.

bobby cant correctly parse error free html and reports errors where none
exist so don't put too much faith in what it tells you. also:
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www/acctools.html

http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bo...talien3.html&output=Submit&gl=wcag1-aaa&test=
I get one question mark on the left of the large photo and I suppose it has
to do with printing.

<quote>
A question mark identifies a possible Priority 1 error that Bobby cannot
fully automatically check, indicating that the user needs to address
that question manually.
</quote> http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/html/en/readreport.jsp

if you read the report at the bottom of the page you checked it will
tell you the manual checks you need to make.

i hear my mommy calling me

 

[The Doormouse]

Can I create images by SVG only if I make use of XML or can I do it
also in
Html?

SVG *is* written in XML. It is XML code.
You can place a SVG object in a HTML web page.

The Doormouse

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

in post: <

if their browser doesn't already give them that ability just supply a
link to the image file so they can handle it however they want.

Well, one point says
"If you use color to convey information, make sure the information is also
represented another way. "
Should I write in the description which I have added a link to, which
colour the bed and the other objects in the photo are of?

 

[brucie]

in post: <

"If you use color to convey information, make sure the information is also
represented another way. "
Should I write in the description which I have added a link to, which
colour the bed and the other objects in the photo are of?

is it relevant what color the bed is? is the red bed the bed of death so
you shouldn't sleep in it?

my mommy says i'm not allowed to play with you anymore

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

in post: <

is it relevant what color the bed is? is the red bed the bed of death so
you shouldn't sleep in it?

my mommy says i'm not allowed to play with you anymore

I am trying to make the information of my site accessible also to those who
are blind. Now the question is whether we should try to let blind people see
all what people who are not blind already see, that means even colours in a
picture.

 

[rf]

Luigi Donatello Asero wrote

I am trying to make the information of my site accessible also to those who
are blind. Now the question is whether we should try to let blind people see
all what people who are not blind already see, that means even colours in a
picture.

You are kidding, right? "let blind people see"? How bloody arrogant!

<assuming a person has been blind forever> How the bloody hell would they
understand colour? Do you, a person without the sense of furble, understand
woggel?

<assuming a person has been rendered blind at some time in their life, after
having been sighted> How would you feel if a web site pointed out your
blindness by specifically aiming a "this is a RED thing" at you, as if to
say "hey, you remember when you could see and you could see red things well
here is a red thing"?



I once met a person who lost her sight at around age 30. She was 35 when I
met her. I did not at first notice that she was blind, nor did I notice for
a whole day. She knew where *everything* was in her house. We even went on a
drive with her husband (my business associate). She pointed out the nice
islands just off the coast of New Zealand, Palmeston North IIRC. She
"remembered" them and described them to me in detail, even to the fact that
there are often a few container ships waiting near the one on the left. She
even said "Can you see the container ships out there waiting to come into
port ". Yes, I did see them. I wondered briefly at the time why she was
looking at the other island.

Only late in the evening when I asked what time it was did I notice she was
blind. She had been using her computer on and off all evening of course,
writing a paper on something she was studying. When I asked my question she
pressed Ctrl T or something and her computer told us what time It was. Then
I walked around behind her and looked closely. She had an earplug concealed
in her hair. Her computer monitor was not switched on.

Scary? Yes. I still re-live that entire day, thinking about all the things I
said or took for granted and more the point the things I did not *see*.

Now, would I say to her "hey, look, it must have rained, the grass is real
green today".

No. I would not. I would say "hey, come here, take your shoe off, the grass
feels real cool and lush today".

THAT is what accessibility is all about. No some bloody D thing that some
*sighted* person has invented!

Then again I have already given up on you

 

[PeterMcC]

Luigi Donatello Asero wrote in

I am trying to make the information of my site accessible also to
those who are blind. Now the question is whether we should try to let
blind people see all what people who are not blind already see, that
means even colours in a picture.

Is knowing the colour of the bed that they can't see, either in the picture
or in reality, of any value to someone who is blind? I'm in no position to
answer that with any authority but my intial thought would be that it isn't.
In fact, you may be doing a disservice to blind visitors by cluttering the
information with unnecessary facts to the extent that the valuable
information is lost in the noise.

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Luigi Donatello Asero wrote
in

You are kidding, right? "let blind people see"? How bloody arrogant!

<assuming a person has been blind forever> How the bloody hell would they
understand colour? Do you, a person without the sense of furble, understand
woggel?

<assuming a person has been rendered blind at some time in their life, after
having been sighted> How would you feel if a web site pointed out your
blindness by specifically aiming a "this is a RED thing" at you, as if to
say "hey, you remember when you could see and you could see red things well
here is a red thing"?



I once met a person who lost her sight at around age 30. She was 35 when I
met her. I did not at first notice that she was blind, nor did I notice for
a whole day. She knew where *everything* was in her house. We even went on a
drive with her husband (my business associate). She pointed out the nice
islands just off the coast of New Zealand, Palmeston North IIRC. She
"remembered" them and described them to me in detail, even to the fact that
there are often a few container ships waiting near the one on the left. She
even said "Can you see the container ships out there waiting to come into
port ". Yes, I did see them. I wondered briefly at the time why she was
looking at the other island.

Only late in the evening when I asked what time it was did I notice she was
blind. She had been using her computer on and off all evening of course,
writing a paper on something she was studying. When I asked my question she
pressed Ctrl T or something and her computer told us what time It was. Then
I walked around behind her and looked closely. She had an earplug concealed
in her hair. Her computer monitor was not switched on.

Scary? Yes. I still re-live that entire day, thinking about all the things I
said or took for granted and more the point the things I did not *see*.

Now, would I say to her "hey, look, it must have rained, the grass is real
green today".

No. I would not. I would say "hey, come here, take your shoe off, the grass
feels real cool and lush today".

THAT is what accessibility is all about. No some bloody D thing that some
*sighted* person has invented!

Then again I have already given up on you

I am not blind so I cannot know how a blind person feels but:
1) I have happened to read about things and animals for examples which I had
never seen before. In that case I have associated for example the name by
which people usually call a certain animal without actually know that is. A
blind person cannot see a colour but she can connect the word "brown" for
example to the things which are brown according to the definition which
people who can see have made. And this seems to be something similar as what
I do when I read about something which I have not seen before, isn´t it?

 

[Jersey]

I am not blind so I cannot know how a blind person feels but:

My cousin was totally blind before his third birthday, and my Father-In-Law
is (red/green) color blind, so even though *I* am not blind, I feel I can
speak to this with at least a bit of authority.

1) I have happened to read about things and animals for examples
which I had never seen before. In that case I have associated for
example the name by which people usually call a certain animal
without actually know that is.

I'm not sure I understand what you wrote above, but I *think* you may be
comparing apples and oranges. My cousin can *feel* an animal, and get a
general sense of how it's put together. Not so, with colors.

A blind person cannot see a colour but
she can connect the word "brown" for example to the things which are
brown according to the definition which people who can see have made.

Not if she's blind from birth (or from a very early) age she can't. There's
nothing to "connect" to. There is no way to describe the concept of color
to a (totally) blind person. I know. I've tried.

Try it yourself. Close your eyes and imagine the darkness you're "looking
at" is all you've *ever* seen. Now, define the color brown.

And this seems to be something similar as what I do when I read about
something which I have not seen before, isn´t it?

No. Not at all. Though I *do* think your heart's in the right place.

As an aside? I gave my Father-In-Law one of the old Win98 boxes I had
laying around, and some cheap Internet access.

You'd be amazed at the number of websites he can't read due to the
text/background color schemes some folks use. Even with only(?) red/green
color blindness, anything other than white-on-black or vice-versa seems
difficult for him.

 

[Webcastmaker]

Now, would I say to her "hey, look, it must have rained, the grass is real
green today".

Why is it rude to point out to a blind person that the grass is
greener today? 2 musicians I work with on a regular basis are blind.
One from birth the other because of diabetes. I do not alter my
conversations because they are blind. I talk to them the same as I
would talk to anyone. I think doing otherwise is more rude.

But to each his/her own.

 

[Jersey]

Why is it rude to point out to a blind person that the grass is
greener today?

Where is there any mention of rudeness above?

2 musicians I work with on a regular basis are blind.
One from birth the other because of diabetes. I do not alter my
conversations because they are blind. I talk to them the same as I
would talk to anyone.

Good for you. That is as it should be. Though the person blind from birth
can have no concept of the word, "greener".

I think doing otherwise is more rude.

Again. Who, other than you, said anything about being rude?

 

[Arondelle]

Why is it rude to point out to a blind person that the grass is
greener today? 2 musicians I work with on a regular basis are blind.
One from birth the other because of diabetes. I do not alter my
conversations because they are blind. I talk to them the same as I
would talk to anyone. I think doing otherwise is more rude.

Regarding the green grass: not rude to do so, but probably pointless.

I also had a friend in college who was blind from birth. She would get
very frustrated with people who would not speak to her in the same way
they spoke to sighted people. She also got very frustrated with a
fellow blind student who insisted that he was being discriminated
against when folks had the gall to speak to him normally. Of course,
this woman had a very low tolerance for stupid people, too.

I never considered the problems of the visually-impaired (apart from
making sure I have pleasant, high contrast text-to-background color
combinations) in my website design, but not because I'm heartless and
uncaring. My site is oriented to graphic arts and to craft items that
can only be appreciated by sighted persons. A visually-impaired person
might visit my site, but he or she wouldn't get much out of most it even
if I did describe the images in minute detail.

Arondelle

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

I'm not sure I understand what you wrote above, but I *think* you may be
comparing apples and oranges. My cousin can *feel* an animal, and get a
general sense of how it's put together. Not so, with colors.

Even if blind people do not know the concept of colours I suppose that they
may still tell
someone else that they have heard that something has a certain colour when
they speak to other people who see it. I suppose that they can learn the
words even if they do not understand the meaning and convey information to
others who understand them and want to help them.

You'd be amazed at the number of websites he can't read due to the
text/background color schemes some folks use. Even with only(?) red/green
color blindness, anything other than white-on-black or vice-versa seems
difficult for him.

What do you suggest to make a site colour-friendly for people who suffer
from color blindness?
May-be to use a style-sheet which links to a black on white page?

 

[Andy Dingley]

Well, one point says
"If you use color to convey information, make sure the information is also
represented another way. "

Should I write in the description which I have added a link to, which
colour the bed and the other objects in the photo are of?

No. You misunderstand the comment.

The point is not to describe the bed as being red, so that blind users
now know that it is the colour of a Martian fire engine (whether they
understand the concept or not). This might be approriate for
cataloguing Rietveld furniture, where colour is an essential part of
the shape (I'm clutching at examples here!), but it's unnecessary for
soft furnishings.

The reason why colour is relevant to accessibility is that many sites
colour-code navigation, such that internal menus are red and external
links are green (or other such things). A person with the very common
disorder of red-green colour blindness cannot tell these apart, even
though they may have perfectly bright and sharp vision otherwise. A
friend of mine plants only blue and yellow flowers in his garden, for
all the red ones are just "grass coloured" to him.