table cellspacing

[Ben C]

So maybe you are on to something here B, if they are clueless
about such things as making their website accessible (which is
damn important thing, you would think), they are likely to be
poor in other areas as well. I have noticed this sort of thing
with films, if they are bad to begin with, they never really get
good. (The converse is not true, either in films or banking). <g>

I can't log in to my bank's website unless I use Firebug to set
display:none on the "Web 2.0 popup" ad that they superimpose on top of
the login button.

I assume that in IE one or other or both elements are displayed in the
wrong places and so the button isn't covered up.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

I can't actually say how much more n% it would have taken to keep me. As
it turned out, the new bank (actually a credit union) offered higher
rates of interest on every type of service available. Checking, savings,
CDs, lower on loans and mortgages (though I didn't need any) and far
lower fees, etc.

And the new place was closer to home!

Oh, when the IE-bank asked why I was leaving, I gave the reason, and the
questioner had no clue what I was talking about. I told her to be
absolutely sure to write this down and pass it along to management. This
was about three years ago, and since I no longer have an account, I am
not interested in seeing if they have yet changed their ways.

Kinda off topic and yet related, anyone here do the eBay thing? eBay
never has been too non-IE friendly but lately (last 6 mo) they have done
something to their logon where you get redirected for and "important"
message from eBay. But seems to total screw up on Gecko whereby you
never see the message (seems to stall) and therefore you cannot hit the
old "Continue To MyEbay" to clear the dang message flag... I wrote
support and informed them of the problem and the firebug error log for
their ebayISAPI.dll and their response. I was using the wrong browser,
they optimize for MSIE. I countered what was I to do from my Ubuntu
desktop? Ha ha.

 

[Eustace]

What would you expect people who do not use Windows to do?

If a site will not work unless IE is used, I just go elsewhere. I
changed banks a couple years ago because of their IE-only web site.

Well, if I had a commercial website I would probably have more browsers
installed to test my code. In my FF I also have the IE Tab extension,
which is my first choice when FF encounters problematic pages. Of
course, what everybody can do is what you did, complain to the
webmasters until the get the idea.

Eustace

 

[Eustace]

Super-wide borders are very distracting.

I suppose it is a matter of aesthetics. In my page the poems are
(mostly) humorous about Greeks in the diaspora. I believe that the
frames around them add significantly to the aesthetic effect; the only
issue for me was how wide they should be, so I tried different sizes to
arrive to the one I liked best. Once I had settled on this, I added a
wide border around the title to produce a kind of ironic effect. The
frame with the red heading cautions the visitor that the people in the
limericks (referred to by their first names and place of residence) are
fictional, so that's kind of ironic too, because there may well be
somebody fitting the description, and the situations are not always
extraordinary. The meander separators add to the ironic effect,
contrasting modern Greeks with the ancient progenitors. Some actually
have ancient Greek names, like Agamemnon from Rio, who had a heart
attack while downloading a very pretty file and had to be rushed to the
hospital; or Menelaus, who fell in love with a Venezuelan girl that,
however, left him to get married to a Greek woman. Or Odysseus
(Ulysses), who attempted to return to Crete from Atlantic City in a
small boat with oars, and who was fortunately rescued by the Coast Guard
and was returned home safely.

Last week I used borders to frame pictures at a (temporary - used for
testing purposes) friend's website:

http://www.geocities.com/polytima/

Again, my only criterion for the width of the borders was the aesthetic
effect, to enhance the pictures contained in them. Of course my friend
will have the final word in the width of the borders. I'll have to
revise that code too, to replace the one-cell tables around the images.

Cheers,

Eustace

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

....
http://www.geocities.com/polytima/

.. I'll have to revise that code too, to replace the one-cell tables
around the images.

Lots of nested tables. Why don't you just put the images in <div>s and
style those? How about something like this?

<div class="row">
<div class="item">
<img src=... >
</div>
<div class="item">
<img src=... >
</div>
<div class="item">
<img src=... >
</div>
</div>

...and add the border styling for class "item" to the style sheet.

 

[Eustace]

Lots of nested tables. Why don't you just put the images in <div>s and
style those? How about something like this?

<div class="row">
<div class="item">
<img src=... >
</div>
<div class="item">
<img src=... >
</div>
<div class="item">
<img src=... >
</div>
</div>

..and add the border styling for class "item" to the style sheet.

Yes, I made this webpage before posting here about the other one.

 

[timothytoe]

Last week I used borders to frame pictures at a (temporary - used for
testing purposes) friend's website:

...
http://www.geocities.com/polytima/

...

Cheers,

Eustace

In this case, I agree that the table borders help the appeal of the
site. But remember that different browsers display borders
differently. You are not guaranteed to be the same border visuals with
different browsers. I've seen the comparisons in a couple of HTML/CSS
books.

I test my site frequently with FF, IE, Safari, and Opera on Windows,
and occasionally with FF, Safari, and IE on the Mac and FF on Linux.
My experience is that if it works on FF and IE, it'll work on the
others. But not always. The local version of my site (not the deployed
version) is now broken in Opera (only), and I have no idea why yet.
Not that I've spent any time one it. It sometimes times out in IE
(JavaScript is slow in IE). Fonts are ugly in IE. A few other
differences will have to be dealt with.

A lot depends on how complex the site is. Mine is over 1000 lines of
JavaScript, plus jQuery and a few smaller libraries. And a fair amount
of HTML and CSS. At that size, much can go wrong.

 

[dorayme]

Lots of nested tables. Why don't you just put the images in <div>s and
style those? How about something like this?

<div class="row">
<div class="item">
<img src=... >
</div>
<div class="item">
<img src=... >
</div>
<div class="item">
<img src=... >
</div>
</div>

..and add the border styling for class "item" to the style sheet.

If you are going to do this, even simpler is not to keep
repeating the class="item" but to style for:

div.row .item

or similar.

 

[John Hosking]

If you are going to do this, even simpler is not to keep
repeating the class="item" but to style for:

div.row .item

or similar.

Perhaps you meant

div.row div
?

Or

div.row img

while removing (or not adding) Beauregard's nested divs?

 

[dorayme]

Perhaps you meant

div.row div
?

Or

div.row img

while removing (or not adding) Beauregard's nested divs?

Perfectly right John. My "similar" cannot excuse my typo (it
truly was *not* in my mind, so it must have been in my fingers)

In other words, to make it crystal clear, if you have class "row"
and, for all instances of such, you want the divs within to be a
certain way, you can do it this way (as John writes it) instead
of making a new class and applying to div children of divs of
class "row".

Same goes for img (as John points out). Or indeed, depending on
the circumstance:

..row div img

(for where there might be images in row which are outside the
child divs of row... Phew! No wonder Beauregard kept it simple to
begin with. <g>)

Just btw, in situations like this using id rather than class for
the wrapper can make it easier to avoid unwanted effects. But I
won't go further now.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Just btw, in situations like this using id rather than class for
the wrapper can make it easier to avoid unwanted effects.

'Ceptin' the OP has multiple rows, and you can't use id more than once
per document.

I suggested separate divs for the images to give more latitude for
additional styling ... those funky 'picture frames' ... but we all know
there are thirty ways to skin a cat.