table outside printable border -- caused by font size in CSS???

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Edward Scott, Oct 15, 2005.

  1. Edward Scott

    Edward Scott Guest

    hi,

    I have a page with a table in it, whose style is defined by a CSS style
    sheet. the table is set to take up 100% of the page when printed. if I
    don't specify a font size, or specify a font size small enough, this
    works fine. once the font size is 9 pt or larger, however, the table
    extends beyond the printable border on the right hand side of the page.

    I have no idea why this is. my style sheet for the table is included
    below, if anyone can offer any assistance it would be greatly
    appreciated.

    <STYLE TYPE="text/css" media="print">
    <!--
    ..myTable
    {
    font-size:9pt;
    align:left;
    border:0;
    border-spacing:0;
    width:100%;
    }
    ..myTable TH
    {
    text-align:right;
    vertical-align:top;
    padding:10;
    background-color:#CCCCCC;
    }
    ..myTable TD
    {
    text-align:justify;
    padding:10;
    }
    -->
    </STYLE>
     
    Edward Scott, Oct 15, 2005
    #1
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  2. "Edward Scott" <> wrote:

    > I have a page with a table in it, whose style is defined by a CSS style
    > sheet. the table is set to take up 100% of the page when printed. if I
    > don't specify a font size, or specify a font size small enough, this
    > works fine. once the font size is 9 pt or larger, however, the table
    > extends beyond the printable border on the right hand side of the page.


    First, try and learn to express yourself in normal English. This includes
    starting a sentence with a capital letter, such as "A", "B", etc.
    Second, include a URL if you have a problem with a specific page, unless
    you wish to prevent people from helping you with the page.
    Third, don't set font size in points, and certainly not to 9pt.
    And don't set table width.

    > padding:10;


    Oh, and don't forget to run your CSS code through the useful CSS checker
    mistakenly called "CSS validator". It will report errors like the above.

    > text-align:justify;


    Don't do that either.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Oct 15, 2005
    #2
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  3. Edward Scott

    Edward Scott Guest

    firstly, there is no reason to start sentences with capital letters.
    furthermore I find doing so looks quite ugly.

    second, the page is not online, so I cannot give a url. this is not a
    web page, it is in fact my resume I am working on.

    third, how else should I set the font size? all the examples of CSS I
    have seen set the font size in points. and I don't want the font size
    to be 9 pt, that just happens to be the smallest font size at which the
    problem occurs.

    why not set the table width?

    why not justify the text?
     
    Edward Scott, Oct 16, 2005
    #3
  4. Edward Scott

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Edward Scott wrote:

    > firstly, there is no reason to start sentences with capital letters.


    Because it's standard English punctuation. Perhaps this resource might
    help you: <http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/print/grammar/>. In
    particular:
    <http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/print/grammar/g_caps.html>

    While you're at it, please learn how to quote:
    <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>

    > furthermore I find doing so looks quite ugly.


    I find your lack of correct punctuation looks quite stupid. I think more
    people would side with me over this matter.

    > second, the page is not online, so I cannot give a url. this is not a
    > web page, it is in fact my resume I am working on.


    Then don't expect much help: without a URL, we can't see what your problem
    is. No description you give will ever be as useful as a URL. If the page
    you're working on isn't online, then create a simple example page that
    illustrates your problem, and post a link to it.

    > third, how else should I set the font size? all the examples of CSS I
    > have seen set the font size in points.


    Generally "em" or percent units are considered wise. For example:

    H1 { font-size: 150%; }
    H2 { font-size: 125%; }
    H3 { font-size: 110%; }
    P { font-size: 100%; }
    SMALL { font-size: 85%; }

    > why not set the table width?


    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign

    > why not justify the text?


    There is some evidence that people with dyslexia find it easier to read
    left-aligned text.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Oct 16, 2005
    #4
  5. Edward Scott

    Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Edward Scott quothed:

    > firstly, there is no reason to start sentences with capital letters.
    > furthermore I find doing so looks quite ugly.


    Yeah there is. It's a tradition among the literate.

    > second, the page is not online, so I cannot give a url. this is not a
    > web page, it is in fact my resume I am working on.


    Do you start the sentences in your resume with capital letters?

    > third, how else should I set the font size? all the examples of CSS I
    > have seen set the font size in points. and I don't want the font size
    > to be 9 pt, that just happens to be the smallest font size at which the
    > problem occurs.


    If you don't know the answer to that, you shouldn't be using html.

    > why not set the table width?


    Probably because it's unnecessary.

    > why not justify the text?


    Some say it's hard to read, though I demur.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
     
    Neredbojias, Oct 16, 2005
    #5
  6. Edward Scott

    Edward Scott Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > Edward Scott wrote:
    >
    > > firstly, there is no reason to start sentences with capital letters.

    >
    > Because it's standard English punctuation. Perhaps this resource might
    > help you: <http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/print/grammar/>. In
    > particular:
    > <http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/print/grammar/g_caps.html>
    >


    the fact that it is standard doesn't make it any more sensible. why
    capitalize the first letter of sentences? really? there is always other
    punctuation to separate sentences.

    > While you're at it, please learn how to quote:
    > <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>
    >


    thank you. that was useful.

    > > furthermore I find doing so looks quite ugly.

    >
    > I find your lack of correct punctuation looks quite stupid. I think more
    > people would side with me over this matter.
    >


    and the majority is always right. besides, however it is done there
    will always be people who think the another way looks better.

    > > second, the page is not online, so I cannot give a url. this is not a
    > > web page, it is in fact my resume I am working on.

    >
    > Then don't expect much help: without a URL, we can't see what your problem
    > is. No description you give will ever be as useful as a URL. If the page
    > you're working on isn't online, then create a simple example page that
    > illustrates your problem, and post a link to it.
    >


    I'm sorry, I thought I described the situatoin sufficiently. besides,
    if you actually look at my description (or even the subject header)
    then you will see that the problem is not with the way the page
    displays on screen, but on the printed page. while people would be
    prepared to look at a web page I link to, I don't expect they would
    bother printing it.

    > > third, how else should I set the font size? all the examples of CSS I
    > > have seen set the font size in points.

    >
    > Generally "em" or percent units are considered wise. For example:
    >
    > H1 { font-size: 150%; }
    > H2 { font-size: 125%; }
    > H3 { font-size: 110%; }
    > P { font-size: 100%; }
    > SMALL { font-size: 85%; }
    >


    thank you, I will try this.

    > > why not set the table width?

    >
    > http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign
    >


    again, this is the printed page I am talking about, not the on-screen
    display.

    > > why not justify the text?

    >
    > There is some evidence that people with dyslexia find it easier to read
    > left-aligned text.
    >


    interesting. I was not aware of that.
     
    Edward Scott, Oct 16, 2005
    #6
  7. Edward Scott

    Edward Scott Guest

    Neredbojias wrote:
    > With neither quill nor qualm, Edward Scott quothed:
    >
    > > firstly, there is no reason to start sentences with capital letters.
    > > furthermore I find doing so looks quite ugly.

    >
    > Yeah there is. It's a tradition among the literate.
    >


    tradition isn't a good reason to do something.

    > > second, the page is not online, so I cannot give a url. this is not a
    > > web page, it is in fact my resume I am working on.

    >
    > Do you start the sentences in your resume with capital letters?
    >


    yes. in formal documents it can make a significant difference. in
    informal documents I choose to express myself more freely.

    > > third, how else should I set the font size? all the examples of CSS I
    > > have seen set the font size in points. and I don't want the font size
    > > to be 9 pt, that just happens to be the smallest font size at which the
    > > problem occurs.

    >
    > If you don't know the answer to that, you shouldn't be using html.
    >


    I'm new to html. give me a break. besides, as I already said, every
    example of CSS I have seen online specifies font size in points.
     
    Edward Scott, Oct 16, 2005
    #7
  8. Edward Scott

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Edward Scott wrote:

    > the fact that it is standard doesn't make it any more sensible. why
    > capitalize the first letter of sentences? really? there is always other
    > punctuation to separate sentences.


    Two reasons:-

    1. Readability: a full stop is such a small mark to rely on to create such
    a big interruption in the flow of text; especially in handwritten text,
    where the tiny dot may go almost unnoticed. By beginning the next word
    with a capital letter, it more clearly shows the division between
    sentences.

    2. Avoiding looking like an idiot.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Oct 16, 2005
    #8
  9. Edward Scott

    dorayme Guest

    Re: table outside printable border -- caused by font size inCSS???

    > From: "Edward Scott" <>
    >
    > Neredbojias wrote:
    >> With neither quill nor qualm, Edward Scott quothed:
    >>
    >>> firstly, there is no reason to start sentences with capital letters.
    >>> furthermore I find doing so looks quite ugly.

    >>
    >> Yeah there is. It's a tradition among the literate.
    >>

    >
    > tradition isn't a good reason to do something.
    >

    ....

    > I'm new to html. give me a break. besides, as I already said, every
    > example of CSS I have seen online specifies font size in points.
    >


    You sure about this? Anyway, pt /is/ a print description rather
    than a screen one where it is less meaningful (pardon me if I
    have missed the context).

    About tradition: no, it is not a good reason to do something in
    itself. It works more like this. If it has been a good and
    useful one, breaking with it mostly needs a bit of a reason, not
    always, just mostly. For short messages, there is not a lot of
    point in capital letters to begin sentences. But in longer
    tracts, paras and stuff, it becomes important for the eye to
    spot new sentences and thoughts...

    I have to go now, I have to renew my Conservative Party
    subscription.

    dorayme

    (Give the guy a break Boji! Lowercase is not so bad a crime. In
    fact, sometimes, in emails, it is rather nice, a developing
    tradition! Sometimes I find myself in lowercase moods... :)
     
    dorayme, Oct 16, 2005
    #9
  10. Edward Scott

    Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Edward Scott quothed:

    >
    > Neredbojias wrote:
    > > With neither quill nor qualm, Edward Scott quothed:
    > >
    > > > firstly, there is no reason to start sentences with capital letters.
    > > > furthermore I find doing so looks quite ugly.

    > >
    > > Yeah there is. It's a tradition among the literate.
    > >

    >
    > tradition isn't a good reason to do something.
    >
    > > > second, the page is not online, so I cannot give a url. this is not a
    > > > web page, it is in fact my resume I am working on.

    > >
    > > Do you start the sentences in your resume with capital letters?
    > >

    >
    > yes. in formal documents it can make a significant difference. in
    > informal documents I choose to express myself more freely.
    >
    > > > third, how else should I set the font size? all the examples of CSS I
    > > > have seen set the font size in points. and I don't want the font size
    > > > to be 9 pt, that just happens to be the smallest font size at which the
    > > > problem occurs.

    > >
    > > If you don't know the answer to that, you shouldn't be using html.
    > >

    >
    > I'm new to html. give me a break. besides, as I already said, every
    > example of CSS I have seen online specifies font size in points.


    Okay, you get a break. But seriously, the examples you saw weren't
    representative of the majority. Most modern webpage font sizes are set
    in percentages or ems using css if they are set at all. Novices may
    tend to use pixels or points (-I did), part. often as a sop to IE, but
    with some experience, one learns to allow for more flexibility.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
     
    Neredbojias, Oct 16, 2005
    #10
  11. Edward Scott

    kchayka Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:

    > Edward Scott wrote:
    >
    >> why not justify the text?

    >
    > There is some evidence that people with dyslexia find it easier to read
    > left-aligned text.


    You don't have to be dyslexic to have trouble reading justified text.
    Browsers generally do a crappy job of it, anyway.

    --
    Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
    Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
     
    kchayka, Oct 16, 2005
    #11
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