Table Trouble

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Geoff Hague, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. Geoff Hague

    Geoff Hague Guest

    The culprit:
    The "show listing" table at
    http://www.captainsoftheworld.com/modernrepublic/strict/shows.php
    (in IE6)

    The problme:
    Why is it that the cell containing "Friday, August 6th 2004" (the top left
    cell) won't expand automatically to allow the date to fit on a single line
    (in IE6 it wraps the "2004" to another line)? Have I done something wrong
    in the contruction of the table (maybe having to do with the 'colspans')?

    Thanks!
    Geoff Hague, Aug 19, 2004
    #1
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  2. Geoff Hague

    tm Guest

    "Geoff Hague" <> wrote:

    > The culprit:
    > The "show listing" table at
    > http://www.captainsoftheworld.com/modernrepublic/strict/shows.php
    > (in IE6)
    >
    > The problme:
    > Why is it that the cell containing "Friday, August 6th 2004" (the top left
    > cell) won't expand automatically to allow the date to fit on a single line
    > (in IE6 it wraps the "2004" to another line)? Have I done something wrong
    > in the contruction of the table (maybe having to do with the 'colspans')?
    >
    > Thanks!



    Wow, your page looks completely different in Safari, Mac IE 5.2 and
    Mac Netscape 7.
    Safari and Netscape have huge blank spaces above the picture.
    IE has the tables all over the place.

    Oh wait, the tables are fucked up in Safari and Netscape too, just in
    a different way.
    tm, Aug 19, 2004
    #2
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  3. Geoff Hague

    Neal Guest

    On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 03:21:59 GMT, Geoff Hague <>
    wrote:

    > The culprit:
    > The "show listing" table at
    > http://www.captainsoftheworld.com/modernrepublic/strict/shows.php
    > (in IE6)
    >
    > The problme:
    > Why is it that the cell containing "Friday, August 6th 2004" (the top
    > left
    > cell) won't expand automatically to allow the date to fit on a single
    > line
    > (in IE6 it wraps the "2004" to another line)? Have I done something
    > wrong
    > in the contruction of the table (maybe having to do with the 'colspans')?
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    >


    No, the problem is that your site colors are horrid. And in Opera the date
    doesn't even show, just a huge top white region and a dinky neon website
    below.

    Wow, I have to tell you, I have seen a LOT of sites and yours is the most
    visually obnoxious I have ever seen. If that's what you were going for,
    congratulations, you kick ass.

    And seriously, I don't mean that as an insult. Honestly, I don't see the
    cell in question, but even if it wraps in IE that's the least of what's
    abnormal about the page.
    Neal, Aug 19, 2004
    #3
  4. Geoff Hague

    tm Guest

    Neal wrote:
    > Geoff Hague wrote:


    > > The culprit:
    > > The "show listing" table at
    > > http://www.captainsoftheworld.com/modernrepublic/strict/shows.php
    > > (in IE6)
    > >
    > > The problme:
    > > Why is it that the cell containing "Friday, August 6th 2004" (the top
    > > left
    > > cell) won't expand automatically to allow the date to fit on a single
    > > line
    > > (in IE6 it wraps the "2004" to another line)? Have I done something
    > > wrong
    > > in the contruction of the table (maybe having to do with the 'colspans')?
    > >
    > > Thanks!


    > No, the problem is that your site colors are horrid.


    I suspect the colors are there only for understanding the layout.

    >And in Opera the date
    > doesn't even show, just a huge top white region and a dinky neon website
    > below.


    That "huge top white region' is a problem.

    > Wow, I have to tell you, I have seen a LOT of sites and yours is the most
    > visually obnoxious I have ever seen. If that's what you were going for,
    > congratulations, you kick ass.
    >
    > And seriously, I don't mean that as an insult. Honestly, I don't see the
    > cell in question, but even if it wraps in IE that's the least of what's
    > abnormal about the page.


    If it was me, I'd bag everything up to this point and start over.
    tm, Aug 19, 2004
    #4
  5. Geoff Hague

    Neal Guest

    On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:34:09 +0900, tm <> wrote:

    > Neal wrote:
    >> No, the problem is that your site colors are horrid.

    >
    > I suspect the colors are there only for understanding the layout.


    No way. Why would anyone send themself to psychedelic purgatory by doing
    that to an otherwise undangerous web page, and then post it here? It's as
    if all your friends and coworkers saw you riding a moped, or passed out
    drunk and naked on your lawn. You just don't allow it to happen.

    I'm really confident this poster meant to foist this technicolor travesty
    on his visitors, thinking it looked cool. If I'm wrong, I'll do something
    nice. But I think I'm right.

    > If it was me, I'd bag everything up to this point and start over.


    Here we agree.
    Neal, Aug 19, 2004
    #5
  6. Geoff Hague

    tm Guest

    Neal wrote:
    > tm wrote:
    > > Neal wrote:


    > >> No, the problem is that your site colors are horrid.

    > >
    > > I suspect the colors are there only for understanding the layout.

    >
    > No way. Why would anyone send themself to psychedelic purgatory by doing
    > that to an otherwise undangerous web page, and then post it here? It's as
    > if all your friends and coworkers saw you riding a moped, or passed out
    > drunk and naked on your lawn. You just don't allow it to happen.


    Maybe in your platitudinous actuality, but remember, this is a
    musician's website.

    > I'm really confident this poster meant to foist this technicolor travesty
    > on his visitors, thinking it looked cool. If I'm wrong, I'll do something
    > nice. But I think I'm right.


    Pretty sure he posted the link before without the colors.
    Oh, and I could use a beer while you are up.

    > > If it was me, I'd bag everything up to this point and start over.

    >
    > Here we agree.


    Dude, the beer...
    tm, Aug 19, 2004
    #6
  7. Geoff Hague

    Neal Guest

    On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:04:28 +0900, tm <> wrote:

    > Neal wrote:
    >> tm wrote:
    >> No way. Why would anyone send themself to psychedelic purgatory by doing
    >> that to an otherwise undangerous web page, and then post it here? It's
    >> as
    >> if all your friends and coworkers saw you riding a moped, or passed out
    >> drunk and naked on your lawn. You just don't allow it to happen.

    >
    > Maybe in your platitudinous actuality, but remember, this is a
    > musician's website.


    I'm a professional musician. I should know. Incense and peppermints and
    all that shit.

    >> I'm really confident this poster meant to foist this technicolor
    >> travesty
    >> on his visitors, thinking it looked cool. If I'm wrong, I'll do
    >> something
    >> nice. But I think I'm right.

    >
    > Pretty sure he posted the link before without the colors.
    > Oh, and I could use a beer while you are up.


    Here, catch. I never saw this posted before, so maybe he did. maybe it was
    a recent idea. Got any smokes?

    >> > If it was me, I'd bag everything up to this point and start over.

    >>
    >> Here we agree.

    >
    > Dude, the beer...


    Here, catch.
    Neal, Aug 19, 2004
    #7
  8. Geoff Hague

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:12:27 -0400, Neal <> declared in
    alt.html:
    > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:04:28 +0900, tm <> wrote:
    >> Oh, and I could use a beer while you are up.

    >
    > Here, catch.
    >
    > Here, catch.


    You _are_ being nice - giving tm 2 beers?

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
    Mark Parnell, Aug 19, 2004
    #8
  9. Geoff Hague

    tm Guest

    Neal wrote:
    > tm wrote:
    > > Neal wrote:
    > >> tm wrote:


    > >> No way. Why would anyone send themself to psychedelic purgatory by doing
    > >> that to an otherwise undangerous web page, and then post it here? It's
    > >> as if all your friends and coworkers saw you riding a moped, or passed out
    > >> drunk and naked on your lawn. You just don't allow it to happen.

    > >
    > > Maybe in your platitudinous actuality, but remember, this is a
    > > musician's website.

    >
    > I'm a professional musician. I should know. Incense and peppermints and
    > all that shit.


    heh. Drummers aren't really musicians you know. They just think they
    are.

    > >> I'm really confident this poster meant to foist this technicolor
    > >> travesty
    > >> on his visitors, thinking it looked cool. If I'm wrong, I'll do
    > >> something
    > >> nice. But I think I'm right.

    > >
    > > Pretty sure he posted the link before without the colors.
    > > Oh, and I could use a beer while you are up.

    >
    > Here, catch. I never saw this posted before, so maybe he did.


    It's been around. Always had that giant white space problem on my
    browsers.
    tm, Aug 19, 2004
    #9
  10. Geoff Hague

    Neal Guest

    On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:17:46 +1000, Mark Parnell
    <> wrote:

    > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:12:27 -0400, Neal <> declared in
    > alt.html:
    >> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:04:28 +0900, tm <> wrote:
    >>> Oh, and I could use a beer while you are up.

    >>
    >> Here, catch.
    >>
    >> Here, catch.

    >
    > You _are_ being nice - giving tm 2 beers?


    Got a case. Want one? Here...

    Hell, it's happy hour somewhere on the planet.
    Neal, Aug 19, 2004
    #10
  11. Geoff Hague

    tm Guest

    Mark Parnell wrote:
    > Neal declared
    > > tm wrote:


    > >> Oh, and I could use a beer while you are up.

    > >
    > > Here, catch.
    > >
    > > Here, catch.

    >
    > You _are_ being nice - giving tm 2 beers?


    Burp.
    tm, Aug 19, 2004
    #11
  12. Geoff Hague

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:22:02 -0400, Neal <> declared in
    alt.html:

    > Got a case. Want one? Here...


    Nah, can't stand the stuff. But thanks anyway.

    > Hell, it's happy hour somewhere on the planet.


    Probably is across the Tasman...

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
    Mark Parnell, Aug 19, 2004
    #12
  13. Geoff Hague

    Neal Guest

    On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:19:50 +0900, tm <> wrote:

    > Neal wrote:


    >> I'm a professional musician. I should know. Incense and peppermints and
    >> all that shit.

    >
    > heh. Drummers aren't really musicians you know. They just think they
    > are.


    Heh. I'm no drummer. I hire drummers, baby. How's that beer doin'?

    Oh, as this is an HTML ng I should note that you shouldn't use tables for
    layout, and don't forget that alt text! *wink wink*
    Neal, Aug 19, 2004
    #13
  14. In article <r1VUc.145941$gE.24837@pd7tw3no>,
    "Geoff Hague" <> wrote:

    > The culprit:
    > The "show listing" table at
    > http://www.captainsoftheworld.com/modernrepublic/strict/shows.php
    > (in IE6)
    >
    > The problme:
    > Why is it that the cell containing "Friday, August 6th 2004" (the top left
    > cell) won't expand automatically to allow the date to fit on a single line
    > (in IE6 it wraps the "2004" to another line)?



    I don't have time to muck with it personally, but looking at the markup,
    the first thing I would try is simplifying the table.

    Except for the last row, every row in that table has two "de facto"
    columns, but the colspan attributes specify three columns for all. What
    is that third column -- that's never actually used -- for?

    I'd start by removing all the colspan attributes except for the last
    row, and change that to colspan="2". If that doesn't take care of it,
    well, maybe that date just _wants_ to wrap. It's not going to stop
    anyone from going to the show, I promise.

    --
    Joel.

    http://www.cv6.org/
    "May she also say with just pride:
    I have done the State some service."
    Joel Shepherd, Aug 19, 2004
    #14
  15. Geoff Hague

    tm Guest

    Neal wrote:
    > tm wrote:
    > > Neal wrote:


    > >> I'm a professional musician. I should know. Incense and peppermints and
    > >> all that shit.

    > >
    > > heh. Drummers aren't really musicians you know. They just think they
    > > are.

    >
    > Heh. I'm no drummer.


    "but..." That's what you all say right before mangling a Bonham solo.

    >I hire drummers


    You have my condolences.

    > Oh, as this is an HTML ng I should note that you shouldn't use tables for
    > layout, and don't forget that alt text! *wink wink*


    *wink wink* is unacceptable code since 10% of browsers have something
    or other turned off. Please use validatable css.
    tm, Aug 19, 2004
    #15
  16. Geoff Hague

    WebcastMaker Guest

    WebcastMaker, Aug 19, 2004
    #16
  17. Geoff Hague

    Geoff Hague Guest

    "Neal" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > > Dude, the beer...

    >
    > Here, catch.



    Heh.... umm.. maybe I should grab a couple beers for myself ... an
    entertaining read, though :)

    Okay, yeah the colours are merely for testing-of-layout purposes (hehe..
    though maybe, just *maybe*, I'm starting to like them!)

    Regarding the huge empty whitespace: I had noticed this when I checked out
    my site on Safari up at my university. I figured it was something simple
    that I could probably deal with later... Maybe I should deal with that now
    :-\

    I'll install some other browsers here on my home computer and see if I can't
    find out what's going on. Any suggestions, off the top of your heads
    though?

    Anyway, thanks for being *humourous* at least, in cutting me down :)

    Cheers!
    ~Geoff
    Geoff Hague, Aug 19, 2004
    #17
  18. Geoff Hague

    Geoff Hague Guest

    "Neal" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > Oh, as this is an HTML ng I should note that you shouldn't use tables for
    > layout, and don't forget that alt text! *wink wink*


    But isn't what I'm trying to do here arguably tabular data? Check out my
    "operating" version of the page to get a sense of what I'm after (beware,
    this'll likely only look proper in IE6):
    http://www.captainsoftheworld.com/modernrepublic/shows.php

    ~Geoff
    Geoff Hague, Aug 19, 2004
    #18
  19. Geoff Hague

    Geoff Hague Guest

    "Joel Shepherd" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <r1VUc.145941$gE.24837@pd7tw3no>,
    > "Geoff Hague" <> wrote:
    >
    > > The culprit:
    > > The "show listing" table at
    > > http://www.captainsoftheworld.com/modernrepublic/strict/shows.php
    > > (in IE6)
    > >
    > > The problme:
    > > Why is it that the cell containing "Friday, August 6th 2004" (the top

    left
    > > cell) won't expand automatically to allow the date to fit on a single

    line
    > > (in IE6 it wraps the "2004" to another line)?

    >
    >
    > I don't have time to muck with it personally, but looking at the markup,
    > the first thing I would try is simplifying the table.
    >
    > Except for the last row, every row in that table has two "de facto"
    > columns, but the colspan attributes specify three columns for all. What
    > is that third column -- that's never actually used -- for?
    >
    > I'd start by removing all the colspan attributes except for the last
    > row, and change that to colspan="2". If that doesn't take care of it,
    > well, maybe that date just _wants_ to wrap. It's not going to stop
    > anyone from going to the show, I promise.


    Well, the thing is is that I don't want the top-left cell (the one with the
    date in it) to be the same width as the cells immediately below it (ie: the
    "Venue", "Time", "Admission", etc. cells). Here's a little mock-up of the
    table layout I used, hoping that it would work for me:
    http://www.captainsoftheworld.com/modernrepublic/strict/tablelayout.gif
    Hopefully that makes sense with respect to what I was trying to accomplish.
    I suppose I could simply pull out that top table row out of the table
    entirely, which would solve things I'm sure, but I think that's still part
    of the tabular data, and the markup would be a lot nicer if it could be
    included within the table.

    Thanks for your help!
    ~Geoff
    Geoff Hague, Aug 19, 2004
    #19
  20. Geoff Hague

    Kris Guest

    In article <6T5Vc.154204$gE.135608@pd7tw3no>,
    "Geoff Hague" <> wrote:

    > I'll install some other browsers here on my home computer and see if I can't
    > find out what's going on. Any suggestions, off the top of your heads
    > though?


    Install a browser that takes webstandards a bit seriously than IE, like
    Mozilla Firefox (mozilla.org/products/firefox). This browser shows you
    what asked for rather than what you wanted (like IE, which always comes
    around and stabs you in the back).

    --
    Kris
    <> (nl)
    Kris, Aug 19, 2004
    #20
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